BIKES Off the sidewalk! — Brooklynian

BIKES Off the sidewalk!

KK I will no longer stand for adults riding on the sidewalk!

Comments

  • Zomg! another minor outrage of insignificant importance!

    someone please make it stop.
  • Subject: Re: BIKES Off the sidewalk!

    BrookSignal wrote: KK I will no longer stand for adults riding on the sidewalk!
    and what exactly are you going to do about it?
  • Subject: Re: BIKES Off the sidewalk!

    Flexichick wrote: [quote=BrookSignal]KK I will no longer stand for adults riding on the sidewalk!
    and what exactly are you going to do about it?
    I think he's hinting that he'll call in another K.
  • ^^ Ha! Good one!

    It's safer for bikers on the sidewalk.

    So.....

  • I admit that adult bikers on the sidewalks is irritating but I also admit to riding on the sidewalk on my own block when coming home periodically (sorry, its easier to hop up and ride 1/4 of a block to my gate then to dismount in traffic and walk the bike in.) I think that usage of the sidewalk for this purpose is fine...however the WORST offenders are the parents (plural) teaching their kid how to ride a bike by riding around he/she on the sidewalk, usually in the middle of a weekend day down 7th or 5th aves. Teach your kid to ride a bike IN THE PARK not in a heavily foot-trafficked area on the busiest day of the week.
  • Oh man, I saw these two clueless morons riding their bikes on the sidewalk at 7th Ave and Flatbush. I just wanted to hop of my bike and smack them.

    If you are not brave enough to ride your bike on streets then either stop riding or move to the suburbs please.
  • Just be careful and remember to pick your battles...................

  • Damn! Beat me to it. I just saw this on reddit a few minutes ago.
  • it's a law, really a nyc administrative code.
    —AC 19-176 - Riding bicycles on sidewalks is prohibited. Bicycles may be confiscated.
    NOTE: Tickets for riding on the sidewalk fall under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board (ECB). If you are given a ticket or summons that requires you to appear in criminal court instead, you should be able to get the ticket thrown out for lack of jurisdiction.
  • Yeah that is if you are stupid enough to stop for the cop in the first place and then produce ID for him.
  • Yea, I'd be like all: nice chain face, chain-face!
  • philmc wrote: it's a law, really a nyc administrative code.
    —AC 19-176 - Riding bicycles on sidewalks is prohibited. Bicycles may be confiscated.
    NOTE: Tickets for riding on the sidewalk fall under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board (ECB). If you are given a ticket or summons that requires you to appear in criminal court instead, you should be able to get the ticket thrown out for lack of jurisdiction.
    wait, really?
  • i never quite understood why it is illegal/looked down upon to ride your bike on the sidewalk. it really doesn't seem safe to have people on bikes in the streets along with cars.
  • MeredithB wrote: Yeah that is if you are stupid enough to stop for the cop in the first place and then produce ID for him.
    If you do get stopped, you're better off producing ID. Although you're not required to carry one, NYPD can take you downtown even for a misdemeanor if you fail to produce ID. It's total bullshit, but once stopped, you're better off producing ID than spending a night behind bars. Although you'll usually be arraigned within 24 hours, if you really piss of the cop, they can hold you for up to (I think, but if anyone knows better please correct me) 48 hours before bringing you before a judge.
    If you get stopped by the cop, produce ID if asked, act apologetic and respectful, say as little as possible, and you might even get away without a ticket.
  • Whoa! I'm guilty of both and I'm fully aware of it. Usually I try not to be annoying to the pedestrians if I take the sidewalk for a small stretch.
    However all rules are off on the Brooklyn Bridge!
  • Pedestrians out of the bike lanes! Specifically the one on Grand Street thru Soho and Chinatown.
  • philmc wrote: it's a law, really a nyc administrative code.
    —AC 19-176 - Riding bicycles on sidewalks is prohibited. Bicycles may be confiscated.
    NOTE: Tickets for riding on the sidewalk fall under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board (ECB). If you are given a ticket or summons that requires you to appear in criminal court instead, you should be able to get the ticket thrown out for lack of jurisdiction.
    Don't know about this info above, but I can tell you I was once ticketed for riding on the sidewalk and yes, I did go home and get my ID to show the officers, the ticket was for criminal court and I did have to pay a $50 fine. Before anyone has a conniption, I ride in the street and was only going from my apt to the corner on the sidewalk and I had a foot on the sidewalk the whole time. I'm not complaining about the ticket---merely sharing the info because I don't think the ECB info is correct. Personally I don't think that sidewalk riding is much of an issue at all because I rarely see it done, except maybe for midtown or in the case of food deliveries. I don't see it happening too much in Brooklyn.
  • All the time in my nabe, due to the multiple restaurants on mine and the next block. I love it when they have the nerve to get shitty with me after almost running me down because they're not watching where they're going.
  • Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: All the time in my nabe, due to the multiple restaurants on mine and the next block. I love it when they have the nerve to get shitty with me after almost running me down because they're not watching where they're going.
    Added problem in that situatuion is that delivery bikes often have big baskets which make them more of a hazard to pedestrians, or at least more of an obstacle.
  • Boygabriel wrote: [quote=philmc]it's a law, really a nyc administrative code.
    —AC 19-176 - Riding bicycles on sidewalks is prohibited. Bicycles may be confiscated.
    NOTE: Tickets for riding on the sidewalk fall under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board (ECB). If you are given a ticket or summons that requires you to appear in criminal court instead, you should be able to get the ticket thrown out for lack of jurisdiction.
    wait, really?

    I think you were misinformed about the ECB summons.
    From KWAC
    King without a crown wrote: A bicyclist is issued a Criminal Court summons 99% of the time, IE: Reckless Operation of a Bicycle. In a few instances a moving violation my be issued to a Bicyclist, such as Disobeying a Steady Red Signal or other traffic infractions . . . A criminal court summons requires a personal appearance a 346 Broadway in Manhattan. The only criminal court summons in which an appearance may be waived, is for Alcohol consumption in a which a mail in penalty is accepted.
  • stacey wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=philmc]it's a law, really a nyc administrative code.
    —AC 19-176 - Riding bicycles on sidewalks is prohibited. Bicycles may be confiscated.
    NOTE: Tickets for riding on the sidewalk fall under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board (ECB). If you are given a ticket or summons that requires you to appear in criminal court instead, you should be able to get the ticket thrown out for lack of jurisdiction.
    wait, really?

    I think you were misinformed about the ECB summons.
    From KWAC
    King without a crown wrote: A bicyclist is issued a Criminal Court summons 99% of the time, IE: Reckless Operation of a Bicycle. In a few instances a moving violation my be issued to a Bicyclist, such as Disobeying a Steady Red Signal or other traffic infractions . . . A criminal court summons requires a personal appearance a 346 Broadway in Manhattan. The only criminal court summons in which an appearance may be waived, is for Alcohol consumption in a which a mail in penalty is accepted.
    Thanks Stacey--that was my experience exactly. For a second there, I felt like I might have been a sucker with the ECB thing mentioned. I did see the judge dismiss the case in front of mine (teen on a bicycle), so if you are young and its a first time offense, you might get lucky in court and avoid paying the fine. If I remember correctly this was $50, but this was at least 4 years ago.
  • I recently got 3 tickets for riding my bike on the sidewalk. i was riding the one block from the street to my building and it was 3:30 a.m. but the officers were not sympathetic.

    I got 2 traffic tickets for riding "not in bike lane" and "no lights or reflection material" (that's actually not true) and a summons for disorderly conduct "obstructing pedestrian traffic" . any idea how much this will cost?
  • bill c wrote: I recently got 3 tickets for riding my bike on the sidewalk. i was riding the one block from the street to my building and it was 3:30 a.m. but the officers were not sympathetic.

    I got 2 traffic tickets for riding "not in bike lane" and "no lights or reflection material" (that's actually not true) and a summons for disorderly conduct "obstructing pedestrian traffic" . any idea how much this will cost?
    Serious?

    1. Why did you stop for the cops, it's not like they can catch you.

    2. Since when is it illegal not to bicycle in a bicycle lane?

    3. Is it a law to have a light after dusk? I have no idea.

    4. Obstructing pedestrian traffic? WTF?

    They should all be dismissed IMO
  • MeredithB wrote: 1. Why did you stop for the cops, it's not like they can catch you.
    terrible advice! they radio to a car down the street and you get charged with resisting an officer.
    MeredithB wrote: 2. Since when is it illegal not to bicycle in a bicycle lane?
    didn't know this
    MeredithB wrote: 3. Is it a law to have a light after dusk? I have no idea.
    definitely. it's also technically illegal to not have a bell.
    MeredithB wrote: 4. Obstructing pedestrian traffic? WTF?
    I assume that's the technical charge for riding on a side walk
  • Boygabriel wrote: [quote=MeredithB]1. Why did you stop for the cops, it's not like they can catch you.
    terrible advice! they radio to a car down the street and you get charged with resisting an officer.

    They'll never catch me. Never I say. I'll go down in a blaze of glory before those coppers put the cuffs on this bird.
  • You can't outrun a radio.
  • Flo wrote:
    Thanks Stacey--that was my experience exactly. For a second there, I felt like I might have been a sucker with the ECB thing mentioned.
    §19-176 of the city administrative code prohibits bicycling on sidewalks, but as a civil violation under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board. As a city administrative law, it's enforceable by police, sanitation, and parks and recreation.

    But NYS Vehicle and Traffic law also regulates bicycles, making riders generally subject to any VAT regulation. Generally a cop will cite you for a VAT violation, not an administrative violation. If you're cited under §19-176 and the citation says you appear in criminal court, yes, that's an error. But if you're cited under a provision of state law, then criminal court is the proper venue.
  • The next Brooklynian picnic will be in front of MeredithB's cell at the county jail.
  • I have a cloaking device. They can't catch what they can't see.

    I also believe the more lights, bells, whistles you have, including wearing a helmet. gloves etc., the more lenient they are on you.
  • MeredithB wrote: 2. Since when is it illegal not to bicycle in a bicycle lane?
    NYC Bike Lane law (via TA):

    Wherever a usable path or lane for bicycles has been provided, bicycle riders shall use path or lane only except under any of the following situations:

    -When preparing for a turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
    -When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, motor vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, pushcarts, animals, surface hazards) that make it unsafe to continue within such bicycle path or lane.

    More here: http://transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/013Summer/17bikelanes.html
  • arches wrote: [quote=MeredithB]2. Since when is it illegal not to bicycle in a bicycle lane?
    NYC Bike Lane law (via TA):

    Wherever a usable path or lane for bicycles has been provided, bicycle riders shall use path or lane only except under any of the following situations:

    -When preparing for a turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
    -When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, motor vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, pushcarts, animals, surface hazards) that make it unsafe to continue within such bicycle path or lane.

    More here: http://transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/013Summer/17bikelanes.html

    AHA! Reason enough not to use any road with a bike lane!
  • why would gloves help?
  • When don't gloves help? In almost any situation.
  • no one has any idea what the fines are for the 2 tickets i received?
  • I never got a fine. I never will. Sorry.
  • perusing my copy of the VTL and i noticed that 1236(d) requires all bikes to be equipped with a brake capable of making the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.

    arguably that makes all fixed gear bikes illegal.
  • bill c wrote: no one has any idea what the fines are for the 2 tickets i received?
    I dont know what the tickets cost but you def want to pay them...if you ignore them you'll get a bench warrant and could be arrested the next time you get stopped!
  • bill c wrote: no one has any idea what the fines are for the 2 tickets i received?
    Not sure either. Maybe these guys can answer the question.

    Have You Been Ticketed On Your Bike?
    If you've been ticketed, get your questions answered and help us document the ticket blitz by contacting Caroline Samponara 646.873.6021, at Transportation Alternatives with the intersection you were stopped at, the date of the ticket, what you were stopped for, the number of the law listed, and whether you plan to appeal.
  • Carmen wrote: [quote=bill c]no one has any idea what the fines are for the 2 tickets i received?
    I dont know what the tickets cost but you def want to pay them...if you ignore them you'll get a bench warrant and could be arrested the next time you get stopped!

    happened to a friend of mine, specifically for riding on the sidewalk
  • arches wrote: [quote=bill c]no one has any idea what the fines are for the 2 tickets i received?
    Not sure either. Maybe these guys can answer the question.

    Have You Been Ticketed On Your Bike?
    If you've been ticketed, get your questions answered and help us document the ticket blitz by contacting Caroline Samponara 646.873.6021, at Transportation Alternatives with the intersection you were stopped at, the date of the ticket, what you were stopped for, the number of the law listed, and whether you plan to appeal.

    thanks. will do. i've been riding my bike daily, to and from work in manhattan, for the past 18 years and this is the first time i've gotten a riding on the sidewalk ticket. the cops took about 40 minutes to write up the tickets and throwing in a bogus discon charge was really the topper.
  • bleibtreu wrote: [quote=Flo]
    Thanks Stacey--that was my experience exactly. For a second there, I felt like I might have been a sucker with the ECB thing mentioned.
    §19-176 of the city administrative code prohibits bicycling on sidewalks, but as a civil violation under the jurisdiction of the Environmental Control Board. As a city administrative law, it's enforceable by police, sanitation, and parks and recreation.

    But NYS Vehicle and Traffic law also regulates bicycles, making riders generally subject to any VAT regulation. Generally a cop will cite you for a VAT violation, not an administrative violation. If you're cited under §19-176 and the citation says you appear in criminal court, yes, that's an error. But if you're cited under a provision of state law, then criminal court is the proper venue.

    Thanks Bleibtrue--although I gotta say I was more confused after reading this. :)
    Good luck Bill C. You have my sympathy. Maybe someone can confirm this, but I think I paid my fine with a debit card at the clerks window. I don't remember having to leave and come back with a money order. (Not very comforting, I know..)
  • The problem with assuming that cyclists should bike always in their legally designated lane, is it is predicated on the assumption that there are never buses or loading vehicles or cars double parked, or in the act of parking, or, for that matter, hiring heaps of school buses simply in order to pull out in front of you the second you pass by their cab for maximum scary factor (true story). So, you know what AA, if some cyclists want to risk the tickets, so be it. Seriously, what skin off you nose is this? I mean, assuming they're biking at safe speeds through the sidewalks, shouldn't you just assume they don't want to be playing leapfrog with angry pedestrians? Incidentally, some of the people who tend to use the sidewalks are delivery people, you know, those guys that bring you your food when you cant be arsed to cook or go to a restaurant? Maybe their riding on the sidewalk is a little revanche for not having health insurance, or a decent standard of livng etc. I could go on, but I won't bore you. And, I'm so grateful for every cyclist I see, I think, ah, one person who is making my asthma that much better, and lowering the heat index today, and I'm perfectly HAPPY to get out of their way. But I've never, in my 10 years in NYC, felt as if I have to. So what gives AA? just angry in general?

    But can't we just presume that these cyclists aren't regressive/taking the little bus to school, but simply negotiating really overwhelming traffic/weather/construction conditions. I always presume to give the benefit of the doubt.
  • Forget the bikes - rude pedestrians, off the sidewalk!

    Just walking home tonight, a couple walking hand-in-hand on the sidewalk approached and, apparently, "forgot" the sidewalk is supposed to be 2-way and banged into me because they wouldn't move over and I wasn't about to step in the street to go around them. Then not 20 feet later, a woman whacked her bag into me because she was walking in the middle of the sidewalk as I approached and didn't (wouldn't?) move over.

    People who believe the world exists for them, alone - suck.
  • danielle123 wrote: Forget the bikes - rude pedestrians, off the sidewalk!

    Just walking home tonight, a couple walking hand-in-hand on the sidewalk approached and, apparently, "forgot" the sidewalk is supposed to be 2-way and banged into me because they wouldn't move over and I wasn't about to step in the street to go around them.
    I've had fist fights because of shit like this. It's a two-way side walk folks. The sense of entitlement that some people have. Jeezus.
  • Not much of a bike rider so I really don't have clout on this thread (though I do skate on the sidewalk when the street is too narrow/tore-up/blocked). For those who ride/skate on the sidewalk at least sometimes, please give pedestrians ample space around them when you go by. I have a close family member with a disability that isn't necessarily obvious to others right off the bat and just walking is tough, let alone negotiating close calls with bikes - it's a total nightmare. I think there are a lot of people who can't jump out of the way (who aren't necessarily elderly) and we really can't tell who those people are..

    That being said it seems crazy to ticket people if no one is on the sidewalk or it's the middle of the night or whatever else.. sounds like they needed to fulfill a ticket quota.
  • Get off the sidewalk! Stop your time trials around Prospect Park! You look stupid on your "messenger" bike. Your helmet won't save your teeth!
  • BrookSignal wrote: Get off the sidewalk! Stop your time trials around Prospect Park! You look stupid on your "messenger" bike. Your helmet won't save your teeth!
    HE'S MAD AS HELL AND HE'S NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!
  • He's convinced me with his persuasive arguments and his stellar use of the American flag.
  • BrookSignal (AA), have you ever confronted an actual cyclist, or are you such a coward, you only mouth off online? if you have this much resentment, what are you going to do about it?

    I recently witnessed two guys on a bicycle mug some lady, and she ran after them and pulled them to the ground. There are two morals I want you to take from this story. A. there's someone who actually has a reason to feel ambivalent about sidewalk cyclists, at least for some time to come, though no doubt she'll recover from it, and B if a little old lady has the courage to fight like that, then why don't you do the same.

    [censored, no personal attacks or wishes of violence please. -mods]
  • censored. no name calling, please play nice, even when others don't. -mods
  • That would be an insult to mine.
  • independent mind wrote: BrookSignal (AA), have you ever confronted an actual cyclist, or are you such a coward, you only mouth off online? if you have this much resentment, what are you going to do about it?

    mod censored.
    :scratch: Um, why are you encouraging him to confront/attack cyclists? I think we'd all be better off with fewer chains to the face.
  • What the hell does AA mean?
  • Oh man.. this thread is getting entertaining now that we're letting our crazy hangout. Does the KK in the original post relate to the AA mentioned by independent mind and does this have anything at all to do with poker?
  • ..and who's up for the next midnight ride - the SIDEWALK EDITION???
  • Christina wrote: ..and who's up for the next midnight ride - the SIDEWALK EDITION???
    I'm all over that!
  • BrookSignal wrote: Get off the sidewalk! Stop your time trials around Prospect Park! You look stupid on your "messenger" bike. Your helmet won't save your teeth!
    I stopped taking you seriously after "get off the sidewalk". Please describe a "messenger" bike and why it looks stupid as i see bike messengers riding all different types. Also obviously a helmet won't save your teeth unless it's motorcycle helmet which let's face it, how you gonna peer out the corner of your eye to cut across two lanes when you realize you need to make that left of Classon from Flushing? (ehhh shit happens).


    I like your flag though, makes me feel safe.
  • Gtrain wrote: i never quite understood why it is illegal/looked down upon to ride your bike on the sidewalk. it really doesn't seem safe to have people on bikes in the streets along with cars.
    Really? Am I really reading this correctly?

    Do you drink your own pee?
  • Seems as though when people are driving they want the bicycles on the sidewalk and when people are walking they want them in the streets.

    or maybe I'm just delusional?
  • Dear pedestrians! Get out of the bike lanes! You look stupid with that fear on your face the minute you realize you jumped out between two parked cars in front of a bike going 15-20 mph!

    When I have to choose between blindly swerving into the car traffic lane or going through you, you won't like my decision.
  • Great video,fantastic use of a U-lock.Curbside justice at it's best.Light,bell,brake and reflector needed to comply with NYC law.Bike lanes work well.Bikes with no brakes should be crushed with a steam roller.People riding bikes on the sidewalk without brakes(fixed gear) should have a broom handle jammed in their front wheel and then be force to yell out"I am dumb!" Bicyclists killed while riding without brakes should have their parents spend the night in jail after their demise for raising a bonehead.
  • Carnivore wrote: If you do get stopped, you're better off producing ID.
    Best to carry a dummy ID too, like a work ID or school ID. Cops will demand photo identification, you hand them a non drivers license and they might just huff and puff and then let you off with a warning. The DL is easy to process, they scan it, you're in the system, you get a ticket. Another ID takes too much paperwork and just isn't worth it to the busy patrolman.
  • Subject: BIKERS ON SIDEWALKS

    The best way to deal with these thugs is plain and simple - stick a bar/pole/baseball bat etc. in the spokes of the front tire and watch them fly! If they are still conscious when they land, take their pic and blog.
  • if i'm still conscious and have the wherewithal, you're getting a chain to the face, motherfucker. hypothetically speaking.
  • Ha! That's a big if.
  • Can we not advocate violence please?

    Thanks.

    -Mods
  • MeredithB wrote: [quote=bill c]I recently got 3 tickets for riding my bike on the sidewalk. i was riding the one block from the street to my building and it was 3:30 a.m. but the officers were not sympathetic.

    I got 2 traffic tickets for riding "not in bike lane" and "no lights or reflection material" (that's actually not true) and a summons for disorderly conduct "obstructing pedestrian traffic" . any idea how much this will cost?
    Serious?

    1. Why did you stop for the cops, it's not like they can catch you.

    2. Since when is it illegal not to bicycle in a bicycle lane?

    3. Is it a law to have a light after dusk? I have no idea.

    4. Obstructing pedestrian traffic? WTF?

    They should all be dismissed IMO

    Let me guess... Times Up! regular?

    Real talk,

    No offense,

    Ppl who can't bike on NYC streets shouldnt bike in NYC,

    And if you don't have the courtesy to ride on the street instead of sidewalk, or the common sense to wear a helmet all the time and lights + reflective gear in the dark, then you deserve the full brunt of the law. After all, God forbid anything were to actually happen and you got hit by a car or w/e, w/no helmet + lights + reflective gear you'd (prob literally) have no leg to stand on as far as culpability goes.

    Ppl need to take responsibility for their own safety and be courteous.

    And yes, I ride fixed and drive my car in BK regularly.
  • geez people get so upset about this.

    despite what the law says it makes far more sense to ride bicycles on the sidewalk than in the street.
    similarly it makes about as much sense to require bicyclists to travel in the same direction of traffic and stop at red lights as it would to require pedestrians to do the same.

    granted an overzealous delivery guy may buzz you every once in a while but you have to make sure that you don't get killed every frakking time you step off the curb because there is no guarantee that a car is going to stop at a light, stop sign, or wait for you to cross while making a turn.

    what we really need is to greatly expand the width of most sidewalks (by eliminating parking, (cue the cries of horror about the abrogation of your right to park on your street)) to allow enough room for pedestrians, bicycles, and, wait for it ...

    Strollers.
  • I would never wanna be riding my bike on the sidewalk. A lot of the time the sidewalk is bumpy and cracked and buckling as tree roots grow. Also I like to ride fast. I will say what annoys the hell out of me is someone going the wrong way in a bike lane, and expecting me to move out of their way. Those people should be eaten by wolves. Go one fuckin block over and use the bike lane in the right direction or at least get out of my damn way.
  • vidro3 wrote: geez people get so upset about this.

    despite what the law says it makes far more sense to ride bicycles on the sidewalk than in the street.
    similarly it makes about as much sense to require bicyclists to travel in the same direction of traffic and stop at red lights as it would to require pedestrians to do the same.

    ....

    what we really need is to greatly expand the width of most sidewalks (by eliminating parking, (cue the cries of horror about the abrogation of your right to park on your street)) to allow enough room for pedestrians, bicycles, and, wait for it ...

    Strollers.
    Riding bikes on the sidewalk makes no sense. In busy areas like Midtown or Soho or w/e they usually eliminate parking during rush hour, so expanding the sidewalk would only exacerbate traffic problems. Plus if u were to expand the sidewalk, pedestrians would just take over the added space, nullifying the whole idea of adding bike lanes to it. The barrier provided by parked cars between pedestrians and bikers is beneficial to both parties.

    Eliminating parking in BK would be ridiculous anyways. Many ppl w/cars in BK use them to drive to work or carry family around. If I live in BK and work in the BX or Jersey or LI why should I have to sacrifice my car to cater to the whim of bikers?

    Never mind the fact that the percentage of people who commute to work by bike is a lot lower than online proponents would suggest. Even if all cars were banned from the roads, most people wouldn't commute to work by bike simply because

    - most ppl can't get all sweaty to go to their office jobs
    - most ppl just dont see biking 7-10 miles each way to work as a way to start and end the day
    - most ppl who bike don't follow safety or traffic laws... why open the roads up to people who bike w/o helmets going the wrong way listening to their Ipods?

    When rider awareness and respect of one's own safety increases then maybe a dialog can be had about opening the roads up to bikes. However catering to a group with generally no regards for safety or traffic laws, who represent a tiny piece of the population but demand changes that would affect nearly everyone negatively just doesn't seem like a smart way to spend our time.
  • while it's true that biking to work would never be practical for me (at least in my current job), i am an example of someone who would bike for leisure and non-work transportation if i weren't scared shitless of nyc traffic.

    i wish there were some solution other than riding in the car lanes. as it is, i haven't used my bike since moving here.
  • If you have the "balls" to wear these bike shorts you should be allowed to bike anywhere you want:

    (Slightly NSFW)

    http://peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/116.jpg
  • stacey wrote: If you have the "balls" to wear these bike shorts you should be allowed to bike anywhere you want:

    (Slightly NSFW)

    http://peopleofwalmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/116.jpg
    Um. Those are awesome. I need a set, I mean pair, I think you know what I mean. Thanks for making my morning, Stacey.
  • sweet tea wrote: while it's true that biking to work would never be practical for me (at least in my current job), i am an example of someone who would bike for leisure and non-work transportation if i weren't scared shitless of nyc traffic.

    i wish there were some solution other than riding in the car lanes. as it is, i haven't used my bike since moving here.
    The nature of the city just doesn't allow any alternatives.

    Biking on a main street like Flatbush or Atlantic is a death wish... but there are tons of alternatives to get to where you need to go. North/South is a little tough but Franklin & Bedford have bike lanes and drivers generally respect them. East/West is a breeze, esp on Dean/Bergen with their bike lanes... but I use St Marks all the time w/o issue.

    If you just want to ride to ride hit up the park. Aside from the main loop they have some trails inside that don't have the Lance Armstrongs or kamikaze crossers. Of course u have to get there, but that will warm u up to riding in traffic, which really isn't bad. It also helps to ride w/others until ur comfortable on ur own.

    I've been here 3 yrs and biking for 2.5 on and off into Manhattan, down to Sheepshead Bay, wherever. You just have to get out there
  • If I may chime in for a moment.... Riding a bike on the sidewalk can be quite dangerous for both pedestrians and cyclists. I have personally witnessed quite a few pedestrians get struck and injured by cyclists weaving in and out of pedestrians on the sidewalk. The Law states that cyclists must ride in the street and must obey the same Traffic rules as motor vehicles. Children ages 12 and under are exempt from this Law and may ride their bikes on the sidewalk. ECB summonses may be issued for Riding a Bike on the sidewalk along with Criminal Court summonses. ECB is Civil and nature and fines for offenses are generally a lot greater than Criminal Court summonses. Admin Code violations such as Bike on Sidewalk/ Open Container of Alcohol/ Public Urination are all enforced by the NYPD and Criminal Court summonses are issued for these offenses. NYS does not require a person to cary ID, however if you break the Law and do not have ID you may be arrested that offense. Carrying fake ID and running from Cops is dumb; generally speaking if you run from the Police you will probably get your ass handed to you and Arrested no matter how minor you think the Offense is. If you don't think the Bike Laws are fair then write your congressman and try to have the Law changed.
  • Truth be told, the police do so little enforcement of any vehicular laws that there's a fat chance that they will enforce the laws in regards to bicycling.

    Of course, IMO, most police have some type of grudge against bicyclists. Maybe it was the Critical Mass around the time of the republican convention that made the cops this way, I don't know.

    IMO, I'd say there is always some bigger crime/violation being committed out there that the police should be focusing on than worrying about bicyclists who really, aren't going to hurt anyone but themselves.
  • Police have a personal vendeta against bicyclists? Did you ever think that the Community has complained about people riding their bikes on the sidewalks putting pedestrains in danger uneccessarily; especially having bike lanes designated for them. Its very simple, streets are for cars, motorcycles and bicylclists; sidewalks are for pedestrians. If bycyclists are too afraid to ride in the street where they're supposed to, maybe they should just walk or take public transportation. Where do you get your facts from Meredith about Police doing little VTL enforcement? Im curious as to what you do for a living beside complain and criticize?
  • I'm not suggesting that police have a vendetta towards bicyclists because bicyclists ride on the sidewalk. They have a vendetta because IMO they see bicyclists as anti-police and liberal.

    Let's see, the stretch of Flatbush ave is notorious for speeding. Why isn;t there a cop car there 24/7? Shoot I'll even take 1/7.

    Cops don't do VTL enforcement because a) it's paper work, b) they may have to go to court, c) it makes money for the state not the city.

    Im curious as to what you do for a living beside defend the police?
  • MeredithB wrote: .

    They have a vendetta because IMO they see bicyclists as anti-police and liberal.

    MeredithB wrote: .
    fat chance that they will enforce the laws in regards to bicycling.
    if you dont think they are enforcing the law about bicycles at all,
    how could they possibly carry out a vendetta ? :lol: :roll:
  • You probably don't see that many Police due to the Fact that the Department is down over 7000 officers since 2001. The remaining officers are stretched so thin with their Anti-Terrorism duties, it leaves little time to ticket speeding motorists.
    P.S. There is a Cop car 24/7 on Flatbush ave, he just happens to be protecting your Bridge!
  • King without a crown wrote: If I may chime in for a moment.... Riding a bike on the sidewalk can be quite dangerous for both pedestrians and cyclists. I have personally witnessed quite a few pedestrians get struck and injured by cyclists weaving in and out of pedestrians on the sidewalk. The Law states that cyclists must ride in the street and must obey the same Traffic rules as motor vehicles. Children ages 12 and under are exempt from this Law and may ride their bikes on the sidewalk. ECB summonses may be issued for Riding a Bike on the sidewalk along with Criminal Court summonses. ECB is Civil and nature and fines for offenses are generally a lot greater than Criminal Court summonses. Admin Code violations such as Bike on Sidewalk/ Open Container of Alcohol/ Public Urination are all enforced by the NYPD and Criminal Court summonses are issued for these offenses. NYS does not require a person to cary ID, however if you break the Law and do not have ID you may be arrested that offense. Carrying fake ID and running from Cops is dumb; generally speaking if you run from the Police you will probably get your ass handed to you and Arrested no matter how minor you think the Offense is. If you don't think the Bike Laws are fair then write your congressman and try to have the Law changed.
    I'm aware of the law.

    I just think that prima facie the law doesn't make much sense.
    Cars and bicycles are really not in the same category. bikers are in much more danger from cars than peds are from bikers.
  • King without a crown wrote: You probably don't see that many Police due to the Fact that the Department is down over 7000 officers since 2001. The remaining officers are stretched so thin with their Anti-Terrorism duties, it leaves little time to ticket speeding motorists.
    P.S. There is a Cop car 24/7 on Flatbush ave, he just happens to be protecting your Bridge!
    1. Anti-terrorism. HAHAHAHA. What a joke. Serious, you need to move out of NYC ASAP so you can feel safe.

    2. That cop is eating donuts, not protecting a bridge, one cop can't protect a bridge if he wanted to.

    3. Thanks for admitting and rationalizing that the police don't do VTL enforcement.
  • Garfunky wrote: if you dont think they are enforcing the law about bicycles at all,
    how could they possibly carry out a vendetta ? :lol: :roll:
    Where did I say "carrying out"?
  • vidro3 - i think you might belong in an entirely different class. you seem to be the sort of cyclist who wants to move slowly amongst the pedestrians. i don't think your idea of cycling works for the class the rest of us are in, bicycles that want to move quickly and behave like cars. it might be fair to say you "ride" your bike, whereas we "drive" our bikes.

    i have a hard enough time dealing with pedestrians walking around the broadway bike path when i leave midtown, adds another 15 minutes to my commute. it would take me hours to get home if i had to navigate pedestrians the whole way home.

    KWAC - i'd love to get your comment on this incident: http://gothamist.com/2009/09/02/driver_blocks_bike_lane_punches_cyc.php
  • These type of incidents happen every day in the City. Bicyclists often confront drivers and try to enforce VTL Laws on their own. (I've been the victim of this while driving through Prospect Park) The end result isoften road rage. I'm sure theres 2 sides to this story, however it sounds like the cyclist also committed a Crime. She should've went to the hospital if she was injured. Sounds like the Cop informed her that this was a cross-complaint situation and she would also be arrested.
  • MeredithB wrote: [quote=Garfunky]if you dont think they are enforcing the law about bicycles at all,
    how could they possibly carry out a vendetta ? :lol: :roll:
    Where did I say "carrying out"?

    horror of horrors i changed "they have a vendetta" to carrying out a vendetta.
    dont go changing the point.

    i find your combined statements contradictory to the point of laughable.
  • King without a crown wrote: Bicyclists often confront drivers and try to enforce VTL Laws on their own.
    Someone has to enforce the laws.
  • King without a crown wrote: These type of incidents happen every day in the City. Bicyclists often confront drivers and try to enforce VTL Laws on their own. (I've been the victim of this while driving through Prospect Park)
    Maybe you'd know about this: what's the deal with cops speeding the wrong way around prospect park at night? I don't care if you're chasing a perp, go the other way around! That is so unbelievably dangerous that I don't see how it can be justified except under the most extreme circumstances. Cops have nearly hit me twice in the last few weeks.
  • bobbybrummel wrote: vidro3 - i think you might belong in an entirely different class. you seem to be the sort of cyclist who wants to move slowly amongst the pedestrians. i don't think your idea of cycling works for the class the rest of us are in, bicycles that want to move quickly and behave like cars. it might be fair to say you "ride" your bike, whereas we "drive" our bikes.

    i have a hard enough time dealing with pedestrians walking around the broadway bike path when i leave midtown, adds another 15 minutes to my commute. it would take me hours to get home if i had to navigate pedestrians the whole way home.

    so don't navigate pedestrians the whole way. I just think bikes should be allowed on the sidewalk in certain areas if they prefer it, obviously not on 7th ave and 34th st at 5pm.
    Even though it is illegal to bike on the street, for a lot of the stuff I do around park slope/windsor terrace I could easily bike on the sidewalk the whole way and encounter only a handful of pedestrians at most. In many ways it is a victimless crime.
  • I don't think bikes should be allowed on the sidewalk at all, unless they have to (bike lane blocked, avoiding accident, etc.)
  • vidro3 wrote: [quote=bobbybrummel]vidro3 - i think you might belong in an entirely different class. you seem to be the sort of cyclist who wants to move slowly amongst the pedestrians. i don't think your idea of cycling works for the class the rest of us are in, bicycles that want to move quickly and behave like cars. it might be fair to say you "ride" your bike, whereas we "drive" our bikes.

    i have a hard enough time dealing with pedestrians walking around the broadway bike path when i leave midtown, adds another 15 minutes to my commute. it would take me hours to get home if i had to navigate pedestrians the whole way home.

    so don't navigate pedestrians the whole way. I just think bikes should be allowed on the sidewalk in certain areas if they prefer it, obviously not on 7th ave and 34th st at 5pm.
    Even though it is illegal to bike on the street, for a lot of the stuff I do around park slope/windsor terrace I could easily bike on the sidewalk the whole way and encounter only a handful of pedestrians at most. In many ways it is a victimless crime.

    I'm a little afraid of dying while riding in traffic and would like nothing better than to ride on the sidewalk, but I don't do it. It just SUCKS for the pedestrians. Especially the peds with dogs (that's me!)

    It doesn't matter if you're riding slow or if it's a relatively quiet street. If you're an adult choosing to ride a bike, get off of it and walk if you need to get on the sidewalk for some reason.

    I wish NYC would get protected bike lanes like they have in Montreal and other cities. A curb, and parking lane between bikes and other vehicles. A curb between bikes and pedestrians.
  • MeredithB wrote: Truth be told, the police do so little enforcement of any vehicular laws that there's a fat chance that they will enforce the laws in regards to bicycling.

    Of course, IMO, most police have some type of grudge against bicyclists. Maybe it was the Critical Mass around the time of the republican convention that made the cops this way, I don't know.

    IMO, I'd say there is always some bigger crime/violation being committed out there that the police should be focusing on than worrying about bicyclists who really, aren't going to hurt anyone but themselves.
    Did u just read Parade Rest's post about bicyclists injuring pedestrians on the sidewalk right above this post u just made here???

    Ur whole 'cyclists are immune from blame' attitude is exactly why cops should clamp down harder on them (us?) when they act in ways that endanger others. That 'Critical Mass'/Times Up! crowd needs a reality check- they are no better than the people they lash out at, and often do more harm than good in regards to making headway in the arena of cyclists' rights.

    Yea, some of us live in the hood where drugs are sold and guns are shot. However, if someone gets clobbered by some self-entitled rogue messenger and gets hurt, for that person a biker is prob worse than 'the people cops should be out after'.
  • King without a crown wrote: These type of incidents happen every day in the City. Bicyclists often confront drivers and try to enforce VTL Laws on their own. (I've been the victim of this while driving through Prospect Park) The end result isoften road rage. I'm sure theres 2 sides to this story, however it sounds like the cyclist also committed a Crime. She should've went to the hospital if she was injured. Sounds like the Cop informed her that this was a cross-complaint situation and she would also be arrested.
    KWAC-- so i imagine your advice on encountering the driver in the bike lane is to just let it go, not get involved, don't initiate road rage. i know a lot of people were thinking the same about this incident. you gotta be zen about this stuff or you'll be stopping every 3 blocks to take another picture to post on mybikelane.com.

    but what would you, as a cop, advise someone to do in the case of the 9th ave "criminal mischief" incident? (http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/23/da-files-charge-against-cyclist-attacked-by-suv-driver-in-9th-ave-bike-lane/) bikers really have to be careful about touching cars, because the slightest finger oil smudge can cause thousands of dollars of damage (as drivers will later claim). but what can we do when contact with the vehicle or interaction with the driver is unavoidable? and in trying to save ourselves or merely stand up for ourselves we instigate violent road rage?

    are we just expected to have faith in the system? be litigious and methodical, let charges be pressed against you and just hope the right side wins?

    shouldn't there be some natural protection, even if it's just some sort of police discretion-- something to look out for the little guy, since we are often two tons lighter than these cars and the maniacs they have behind their wheels?

    the simplest question i want an answer to is why don't the cops in these situations ticket the driver after the incident for being in the bike lane in the first place? i've been ticketed and warned for riding on the sidewalk, obviously someone has time to enforce that law-- why aren't police out there enforcing the bike lane violations that have far more lethal risks involved?
  • bobbybrummel wrote: [quote=King without a crown]These type of incidents happen every day in the City. Bicyclists often confront drivers and try to enforce VTL Laws on their own. (I've been the victim of this while driving through Prospect Park) The end result isoften road rage. I'm sure theres 2 sides to this story, however it sounds like the cyclist also committed a Crime. She should've went to the hospital if she was injured. Sounds like the Cop informed her that this was a cross-complaint situation and she would also be arrested.
    KWAC-- so i imagine your advice on encountering the driver in the bike lane is to just let it go, not get involved, don't initiate road rage. i know a lot of people were thinking the same about this incident. you gotta be zen about this stuff or you'll be stopping every 3 blocks to take another picture to post on mybikelane.com.

    but what would you, as a cop, advise someone to do in the case of the 9th ave "criminal mischief" incident? (http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/23/da-files-charge-against-cyclist-attacked-by-suv-driver-in-9th-ave-bike-lane/) bikers really have to be careful about touching cars, because the slightest finger oil smudge can cause thousands of dollars of damage (as drivers will later claim). but what can we do when contact with the vehicle or interaction with the driver is unavoidable? and in trying to save ourselves or merely stand up for ourselves we instigate violent road rage?

    are we just expected to have faith in the system? be litigious and methodical, let charges be pressed against you and just hope the right side wins?

    shouldn't there be some natural protection, even if it's just some sort of police discretion-- something to look out for the little guy, since we are often two tons lighter than these cars and the maniacs they have behind their wheels?

    the simplest question i want an answer to is why don't the cops in these situations ticket the driver after the incident for being in the bike lane in the first place? i've been ticketed and warned for riding on the sidewalk, obviously someone has time to enforce that law-- why aren't police out there enforcing the bike lane violations that have far more lethal risks involved?

    Driver + 3500# car + possible gun >>> you + 20# bike + u-lock

    I prob would have beat the shit out of that Excursion driver though. I'm sure the case against the dude will be thrown out. In any case physics rule, no need to try your luck unnecessarily.
  • Cool The Kid wrote: Did u just read Parade Rest's post about bicyclists injuring pedestrians on the sidewalk right above this post u just made here???
    Um, no, are you seeing things? Or maybe I missed it, please enlighten me to this post.
    Cool The Kid wrote: Ur whole 'cyclists are immune from blame' attitude is exactly why cops should clamp down harder on them (us?) when they act in ways that endanger others.
    Um, now you are reading into my statements what you want to, but I never said that 'cyclists are immune from blame'.

    But I do believe that a 2 ton vehicle is more dangerous than a bicycle any day and that focus should be on VTL enforcement.
  • MeredithB wrote: [quote=Cool The Kid]Did u just read Parade Rest's post about bicyclists injuring pedestrians on the sidewalk right above this post u just made here???
    Um, no, are you seeing things? Or maybe I missed it, please enlighten me to this post.
    Cool The Kid wrote: Ur whole 'cyclists are immune from blame' attitude is exactly why cops should clamp down harder on them (us?) when they act in ways that endanger others.
    Um, now you are reading into my statements what you want to, but I never said that 'cyclists are immune from blame'.

    But I do believe that a 2 ton vehicle is more dangerous than a bicycle any day and that focus should be on VTL enforcement.

    Cops having a 'grudge' against bicyclists = policing bicyclists is only out of revenge. God forbid cops do the job we pay them to
  • Actually, now, you can not ride a bicycle anywhere in NYC or even on Long Island. Not on the street, not on the sidewalk, and not in the alley. In fact, just mere posession of a bicycle in New York City/Long Island, even in your house/apartment will get you locked up on Rikers Island.
  • This Zombie thread is dusted off in honor of the DOTs efforts to give bike restaurant delivery drivers a forum to discuss their complaints:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/commercial-cyclists.shtml

This discussion has been closed.