Today's article on real estate in Crown Heights

whynot_31

This article doesn't say anything you don't already know, but we could use this thread to post future articles on the topic, for those who don't have google.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-28/brooklyn-boom-squeezes-buyers-pushing-into-crown-heights.html

southeast

This one actually amazed me.  This is quite a hefty sum for this area, IMHO.  http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/08/crown-heights-south-flip-brings-in-1-85-million/

eastbloc

Bloomberg: bringing you six year old news today.

homeowner

@southeast, I think that the housing stock on prime blocks in CHS is far and away more desireable than most of what's in CHN. You have detached, and semi-detached homes, most with driveways and/or garages. It doesn't shock me at all, especially when you think that people are paying $1.5 million for brick townhouses in Bed Stuy.

whynot_31

I've grown to expect houses in CHN and CHS to be between $1.3M and $2.3M.

mugofmead111

The houses on Sullivan Place between Rogers Avenue and Bedford Avenue have driveways/garages as well.

southeast

@homeowner  I would agree with you.  I presume you are referring to CHSE.  I am not sure they have much of what you are describing on the west side of CHS; I don't really venture to that area.

However, this is definitely a first.  Houses on President between Kingston and New York Avenues have got for that and more for a while now, but not really anywhere else in CHSE.  Until now.

People are paying $1.5m for a brick townhouse in Bed Stuy because, as @whynot_31 once noted, nothing draws a crowd, like a crowd.  CHSE doesn't have the crowd (yet).  

The alleys and driveways which are common in CHSE are indeed awesome.

goldemi1

Beautiful house, semi detached, and if in/near hassidic area its totally understandable it would fetch this price these days.  Not an area I desire, but desirable and necessary for others.  Meaning hassidic folks kinda need to live within their community and walking distance to schul . Thats why Gravesend houses are astronomically priced by our views, but not if youre a wealthy Syrian garment tycoon.

southeast

@goldemi1 - My understanding is that the house on Union which we are discussing was not sold to a member of the local Jewish community.

southeast

5 BROOKLYN NABES WHERE YOU CAN (STILL) BUY A HOUSE FOR UNDER $1 MILLION

http://brickunderground.com/blog/2014/07/five_brooklyn_neighborhoods_where_you_can_still_buy_a_house_for_under_1_million

CROWN HEIGHTS:

Median asking price: $987,000

Number of houses listed: 40

Average sale price as of July 2014: $460,271​

Number of houses sold as of July 2014: 200

whynot_31

At the current rate of inflation, it shouldn't take Crown Heights long to go from $987k to over $1M.

A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.

mugofmead111

A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.

Welcome to our world.

whynot_31

I am known as Captain Obvious for a reason.

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&q=captain+obvious&gbv=2&oq=captain+obvious&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1608.6946.0.7778.20.13.0.7.7.2.149.918.10j2.12.0....0...1ac.1.34.img..3.17.760.GKRXibjn3ys

pheightsresident

At the current rate of inflation, it shouldn't take Crown Heights long to go from $987k to over $1M.

A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.

I'd agree, except that there is a huge gap between median asking price and average selling price, at least at present. CH is still not as expensive as the median asking price would make one think, though this depends on what area of CH one is looking and on the type of home, etc. 

whynot_31

Yes, the median price is misleading in that way.

However, $427k is also pretty exclusive.

We are rapidly becoming an area in which people move after selling their prior home, or after inheriting $.

....not many people are able to buy here solely using the funds they saved from their job as a bus driver, or NYC employee.

They once could, but can not any longer.

whynot_31

Speaking of which, 591 Washington is now ready:

southeast

While reading this article, I couldn't help but compare to what we have going on in our area - Crown Heights vs. Bed-stuy...

http://brickunderground.com/blog/2014/09/moving_out_of_bed_stuy

And a response on Brownstoner:  http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/09/backlash-against-bed-stuy-hype-grows/

whynot_31

Change is more difficult for some than others.

Dawndew

WHy was that article in Brickunderground.com published at all? Look out, Spike here comes another one.

whynot_31

Depending upon your position, here is more good or bad news:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-09/brooklyn-home-prices-reach-record-in-third-quarter.html

southeast

1.2 million - It's not a brownstone; it's attached; it's not large (the 3,720 Sq Ft noted includes the cellar), AND its in southeast CH!  - http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/10/house-of-the-day-1239-president-street/

I don't recall seeing anything similar close to this price range.  This seems to be raising the bar in this area.

whynot_31

It is between NY and Nostrand, which is quite nice. The President St 2/5 stop is right there...

southeast

The location may be great as a result of the 2/5 stop, but the block is not particularly nice.  There is an ugly condo section in the middle on the north side, and a giant building/compound on the south side taking up half the block.  I never really liked the look of this block.

And, added to above, it doesn't parking.

Unless being that close to train station adds approximately 25% in value, I would say this listing is that much more than recent sales of comparable properties in the area, but further east. 

whynot_31

I don't watch that area that closely, so I'll take your word.

I have noticed that people are taking the bars off the windows and porches.

whynot_31

November 7:

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2014/7/21/crown-heights-now-most-sought-after-brooklyn-neighborhood-multifamily-investment

southeast

As a follow up, holy cow! It's moving east, and fast.

- On President St. - $1.5m for a brownstone practically on Troy: https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1540-President-Street-Brooklyn-New-York-11213-MLS-DC1540P

- On Carroll St. - $1.3m for brick between Troy and Schenectady:  https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1580-Carroll-Street-Brooklyn-New-York-11213-MLS-389386

Interestingly enough, North of EP on Linclon just off of Troy, "only"  $900k:  https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1221-Lincoln-Place-Brooklyn-New-York-11213-MLS-2688804

I'm going to venture a guess that quite a few people in my neck of the woods are going to refinance using these comps, assuming they sell.

whynot_31

I do hope that they all get their asking prices.

Dawndew

one day soon Eastern Parkway will be glorious the full length. And living around Lincoln T

errace Park

https://foursquare.com/v/lincoln-terrace-park/4bfadfb365fbc9b6bda6906c

 will be desirable. 

ehgee

A lot of the 1920s 2-families just south of Eastern Parkway seem very competitively priced at a bit over ~$1M, considering they are a fast commute to Manhattan, an easy walk/bike ride to many of Brooklyn's nice neighborhoods, and the equal-sized rental space will pay much more of the mortgage than a small garden apartment. And many have parking, too.

southeast

one day soon Eastern Parkway will be glorious the full length. And living around Lincoln T

errace Park

https://foursquare.com/v/lincoln-terrace-park/4bfadfb365fbc9b6bda6906c

 will be desirable. 

I can't wait for this to happen!  It will take a while though.  Utica will need to turn first.

whynot_31

As a result of Brooklyn being the worst in the US for home affordability, wealthier renters may find their way toward Utica.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-04/brooklyn-worst-in-u-s-for-home-affordability.html

southeast

Please; I can't wait. To Utica and beyond.

ehgee

Someday, they'll build the Utica subway.

Someday may be 2080.

southeast

What is this talk of a Utica subway?  This is the first I'm hearing of it.  Do you mean a subway under the full length of Utica?  That would be awesome.

ehgee

In the same fashion as the Second Avenue subway, the Utica subway, along with the remainder of the Nostrand subway, were casualties first of the Great Depression and then postwar urban decline:

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/09/07/a-history-of-futility-for-utica-nostrand-extension-plans/

Unfortunately, subway construction costs in the US are much higher than they are in, say, Spain, so property values in outer Brooklyn would need to surge far higher to justify any subway construction on Utica.

Maybe after East New York and the South Bronx are full of high rises, and there are no pre-existing subway lines left to build up.

There's actually a station shell for where the unbuilt South Williamsburg subway would cross on its way down Utica Avenue at the A train's Utica stop:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utica_Avenue_(IND_Fulton_Street_Line)#Provisional_station

southeast

Thank you very much @ehgee.  This is very interesting.  And it would be nice if it actually happened in my lifetime.

suppleknuckles

it won't. the conditions under which the current subway system were built were atrocious and before the age of worker's safety and fair union wages. think of how long it's taken them to even just build an *extension* to the Q train as part of the "second avenue line" (which won't really extend further south than midtown, mark my words!), considering how wealthy that area is and how badly it was needed. we'll sooner say goodbye to all of lower manhattan due to flooding than see a Utica ave subway.

come on down the B/Q train to flatbush. our train is lovely! >:}

ehgee

The Second Avenue Subway is "budgeted at approximately $1.7 billion per kilometers while similar projects in Paris and Berlin have checked in at $250 million per kilometer and a London Tube extension cost $450 million per kilometer."

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/14/the-costs-of-second-ave-construction/

And that's why we can't have nice things. It's not just good working conditions & union wages— they have those those in Paris, London, and Berlin.

southeast

The cost @ehgee mentioned is just insane.  I have no clue how this stuff works, but shouldn't it be cheaper if you just stick to the road; meaning, don't go under buildings?  And wouldn't the cost be cheaper in Brooklyn, having less big buildings which may need to be supported?

whynot_31

Yes, that is why SBS/BRT is being implemented on Utica and other routes.

...SBS will be the closest thing we are going to get to new subway service for decades.

If it isn't coupled with enforcement and limited access, it won't achieve its stated goals.

homeowner

Under the road in most of Brooklyn is where you have utilities (electric, gas, telecom, etc). I'd guess that building underneath them without disturbing them would be a nightmare plus you need spaces for ventilation, mechanicals, etc. Think about the substations that are tucked away in various neighborhoods and the ventilation shafts under sidewalks along subway lines. 2nd Ave subway proves it can be done, but not without a huge cost. Add to that NY state's need to load additional costs onto public works projects (prevailing wage, WC, etc) and the failure of government to drive large construction projects to completion in a timely manner, and I don't think that we'll see a new Brooklyn subway line in our lifetimes.  If someone could make it happen however, it would be a game changer.

My bet is that the Cross Harbor Freight tunnel currently being studied by the Port Authority will be the only new underground rail constructed in the next 50 years. http://www.bondbuyer.com/news/regionalnews/port-authority-cross-harbor-freight-could-impact-future-revenues-1068285-1.html

That won't impact Crown Heights directly, but will put a lot more trains on the moribund rail line that runs through Canarsie, Brownsville, ENY and Ridgewood. Meanwhile, CH and the close in parts of Nostrand and Utica will continue to grow in popularity as they are close to subway lines. It remains to be seen if the current gentrification will reach the far ends of the system (New Lots, Brooklyn College, etc) and what impacts will result.

whynot_31

Yes, and because such projects take so long to complete, my hope is that they won't be started until their necessity and funding is completely established.

My hope is that we no longer live in an age that politicians can start an ill conceived (really risky) project to appease union interests (ie obtain votes).

southeast

It remains to be seen if the current gentrification will reach the far ends of the system (New Lots, Brooklyn College, etc) and what impacts will result.

I don't think it is a matter of if, just a matter of when.  Brooklyn College will likely go first.  I'd say a couple years.

nothinlikeabklyngirl

Gentrification around Brooklyn College has already started. There were a few new condo developments in the area when I was looking 4-5 years ago. The large-scale commercial changes that started with Target are continuing; they even have a Blink Fitness now. I'm waiting to see if the improvements to the streetscape that were promised (#8 on this list: http://www.flatbushjunctionbid.com/top_10_reasons) will actually happen. 

whynot_31

A few friends of mine have recently moved to Ditmas, purchased condos and are doing their best to have local businesses cater to their means and preferences.

suppleknuckles

Yes, that is why SBS/BRT is being implemented on Utica and other routes.

...SBS will be the closest thing we are going to get to new subway service for decades.

If it isn't coupled with enforcement and limited access, it won't achieve its stated goals.

what do you mean by limited access?

i do love a good SBS bus. The B44+ is the only decent way i can get to williamsburg these days. 

My boyfriend bought a house close to the "end" of the 2/5 train. Church ave--not quite the end, but close. Apparently a neighbor told him the reason parking is impossible in their area is because everyone from east Flatbush just drives their cars, parks on their street, and takes the 2/5 to work every morning. 

i've heard people in east flatbush, flatlands, and mill basin, etc don't want a subway line at all, however. For a lot of reasons i'm sure but most of all because they don't WANT newcomers having easy access to their neighborhood. Not to mention the easiest way to build a utica line south of empire would probably be an elevated track--Utica is a wide, mostly commerical street. sounds like a homeowner's worst nightmare.

as for the freight project, god i hope that happens. Caton Ave in flatbush is full to capacity with giant horrible freight trucks, especially in the mornings. anything to lighten the load.

whynot_31

Curbed would like us to vote on which neighborhood should advance toward the Curbed Cup.

Round 1: Crown Heights vs Astoria

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/16/curbed_cup_1st_round_5_crown_heights_vs_12_astoria.php#more

A few of the Big 16 local developments I watch are noted, but they are missing a lot of them: http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/44634/links-to-the-big-16-developments-in-western-crown-heights/p1

Vanderbilly

Astoria's shown improve but they barely have a team.  We're going to mop the floor with them.  Let's hope for some real competition the next round. 

whynot_31

This article jabbers about Crown Heights past and present:

http://www.6sqft.com/get-em-while-their-cheaper-a-look-at-crown-heights-real-estate-past-and-present/

whynot_31

This article is running in Monday's AM NY.   I believe the writer is a Brooklynian reader:
http://www.amny.com/real-estate/crown-heights-real-estate-continues-to-boom-1.10033129

bkarchitect

I saw that AM NY article this morning... it doesn't say anything new, but DOES include a photo of a now-defunct store!

whynot_31

The nice thing about old news is that it sounds new to a new audience.   This one talks about how neighborhood homeowners are being repeatedly offered cash for their homes.

As it points out, this is not a new thing.   It is actually slowing down:   http://gothamist.com/2015/04/08/crown_heights_family_cant_escape_of.php

pragmaticguy

According to a report I heard on CBS radio this morning the average home price in Brooklyn went up 18% last year with the median of co-ops, condos and 1-3 families coming in at $618,000. So I guess that anything you can buy for about $300,000 would be considered affordable housing.

whynot_31

$300k

If we use the old "2.5 times salary, and 20% down" rule, that means that a buyer should put $60k down, which would leave them a balance of $240k. They then need to earn $96k a year for 30 years.

ldarippa

Btw - as a homeowner I don't see a slow down in calls, flyers or random people at my door offering cash for my home.

homeowner

The nice thing about old news is that it sounds new to a new audience.   This one talks about how neighborhood homeowners are being repeatedly offered cash for their homes.

As it points out, this is not a new thing.   It is actually slowing down:   http://gothamist.com/2015/04/08/crown_heights_family_cant_escape_of.php

It's not new, which makes it even more of a pain in the ass. No, I don't want to sell to you. I didn't want to sell to you last week, or last month, or last year, and when you call me the next time I won't want to sell to you either. The people that show up in person are even worse. 

whynot_31

To many owners, the offers to buy come with an implicit assumption that the owner is not savvy and/or desperate.

...which, needless to say, the owners find quite annoying.

Said annoyance is often exacerbated when the buyers are of a different hue or class than the owners.

...even if they hire people to pass out the flyers that "match" the owners.

whynot_31

While it may appear that the 4 college students splitting the $3500 cost of a 3 bedroom are insane, they may actually be making a good financial decision:

https://blog.personalcapital.com/financial-planning-2/big-city-living-provide-higher-return-investment/

whynot_31

What I like about this article is that it appears in a website aimed at a US audience of quite wealthy people, yet simply refers to the neighborhood as Crown Heights.

They feel no need to state in the headline that Crown Heights is in Brooklyn.   

...it as if they assume their audience knows the area.   They might be right.

http://www.designsponge.com/2015/04/a-crown-heights-family-makes-it-work-in-style.html

whynot_31

According to this article, Crown Heights is the Number 1 neighborhood in NYC new graduates should live:
http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2015/05/10_best_neighborhoods_for_college_grads_in_2015

whynot_31

This one targets people who are still in the stage of their life that they have roommates:

 http://blog.yournewroommate.com/neighborhood-highlights-new-york-rentals-in-crown-heights/

St_Teresa

Crown Heights is the "Living In" neighborhood in this weekends NYT real estate section

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/realestate/crown-heights-brooklyn-where-stoop-life-still-thrives.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fliving-in

crownheightster

Last time the NYTimes folks were all about Franklin. Now they feature a picture of NOSTRAND!

whynot_31

We have all become used to neighborhoods around the country being pumped as "the next Brooklyn".

The phenomena now seems to be being applied to things that are not even real estate.

"They conclude that value stocks could be as up and coming as Brooklyn neighborhoods like Bushwick, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/investing/value-stocks-to-buy/

They are not talking to a Brooklyn audience.    OMG.

eastbloc

Maybe that is just really good targeted advertising.

whynot_31

maybe.

...but my suspicion is just targeting people who feel they have so far missed out on the Brooklyn boom.

mugofmead111

We have all become used to neighborhoods around the country being pumped as "the next Brooklyn".

The phenomena now seems to be being applied to things that are not even real estate.

"They conclude that value stocks could be as up and coming as Brooklyn neighborhoods like Bushwick, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/investing/value-stocks-to-buy/

They are not talking to a Brooklyn audience.    OMG.

If the New York Times is late, then CNN is even later. LOL

whynot_31

The NYT and CNN make me feel young and hip.

whynot_31

The neighborhood of Weeksville is defined
http://www.wsj.com/articles/once-forgotten-weeksville-area-stirs-in-brooklyn-1436522402

Utica Avenue begins selling fruits and vegetables lit up like jewelry?    

whynot_31

Trouble at 649 - 651 Classon

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20151005/REAL_ESTATE/151009945

whynot_31

220 sq feet.

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/10/14/1300month_brooklyn_rental_measures_just_220_square_feet.php

whynot_31

This article in today's NYT is a slight change of pace in that it talks about those leaving Crown Heights, as opposed to those moving into it:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/nyregion/gentrification-in-a-brooklyn-neighborhood-forces-residents-to-move-on.html

mike dunlap

With a backyard and a car, she has found life in Virginia affordable and pleasant, but “extremely boring,” she said.

And that is sadly the usual trade-off in this country.  Better schools, affordability, etc. often require a move to extremely boring places in this mostly suburban, mostly boring country.

whynot_31

We might have a writer for Vice living in Crown Heights.   http://www.vice.com/read/hw-what-makes-a-neighborhood-hip

He thinks we are cool.  

whynot_31

behind a paywall:

 http://www.wsj.com/articles/crown-heights-turns-its-image-around-1451694001

laura palmer

for those who wish to read it, you can google search the headline to get around the paywall (referrals from google are exempt) 

https://www.google.fr/search?q=crown+heights+turns+its+image+around&oq=crown+heights+turns+its+image+around&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.5797j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8

Flatfix

Look at the comments to this article. True words. Franklin-centric and reads like an real estate ad.

whynot_31

The article (and apartments mentioned) match the preferences and means of the publication: WSJ.

There is no need to describe the aspects of the neighborhood readers are not interested in...

whynot_31

http://www.amny.com/real-estate/city-living/brooklyn/crown-heights-guide-the-top-destinations-in-the-hot-brooklyn-neighborhood-1.11349067#1

whynot_31

https://thebillfold.com/i-was-a-real-estate-agent-in-gentrifying-brooklyn-6392c9992998#.a16dzefh8

whynot_31

Opportunities lost:  http://nyslant.com/article/opinion/de-blasio-housing-policy-could-begin-a-path-of-upward-mobility.html

whynot_31

https://catapult.co/stories/district-eight

whynot_31

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/realestate/priced-out-of-my-childhood-home.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

I suspect these stories keep getting published because they are so easy to write.

Dawndew

these stories' summaries are too easy. For in stance:why didn't this girl 's family buy a house if" it was so unnoticed by the wealthy"? And what the heck does that mean anyway? She obviously wants to come back because it has gotten better not because it is still drug infested. Dope journalism.

crownheightster

I feel for people like the star of the article, but my sympathy is limited. 

whynot_31

lots of stats in this one

 http://streeteasy.com/blog/west-indian-parade-crown-heights/

Flatfix

Everyone in articles such as this use the phrase "deep roots" when referring to the Carribean community. How long has it been honestly? Since the 1950's?

homeowner

Wrong. The "great migration" of Blacks occurred following WWI. But even prior to that time Blacks had established communities in Brooklyn. From the "discovery" of America through the founding of New Amsterdam there were large populations of enslaved blacks in the county. Most of those remained in the county when NY abolished slavery finally in 1827.

"Between World War I and the 1930s, thousands of southern Blacks filtered into Brooklyn's neighborhoods. They were among the hundreds of thousands who moved to northern cities during the "Great Migration," and by 1930, more than 60% of the African Americans in Brooklyn had been born outside the borough. When the A train was extended from Harlem to Brooklyn in 1936, thousands of African Americans left Harlem in search of better lives and less expensive housing. Thousands of Puerto Rican immigrants also settled in Brooklyn. The trip from Puerto Rico took five days by steamship, but offered an alternative to the poverty and limitations of the tiny island. Puerto Ricans settled in Red Hook, downtown Brooklyn, and Greenpoint, and many found jobs in the needle trades and cigar factories."

http://www.thirteen.org/brooklyn/history/history4.html

"As Kings County’s agricultural economy expanded during the eighteenth century, farmers and landowners like the Leffertses became even more reliant on enslaved labor. In 1698, 15% of Kings County residents were of African descent, and virtually all were enslaved. By 1738, that figure had risen to 25%. In 1790, that number rose again: African Americans accounted for over 30% of Kings County’s population; most were enslaved. In that same year, the population of the town of Flatbush included 378 enslaved people, 12 free black people, and 551 white people – 75% of whom were slaveholders.

As these numbers attest, even after the Revolutionary War, when notions of freedom and liberty permeated the American consciousness, Kings County remained a committed slave society. The area’s farmers relied on enslaved labor for their agricultural needs, even while slavery was on the decline in other parts of New York State.

Like virtually all wealthy families in Flatbush, the Leffertses owned significant numbers of slaves, and engaged in the trade, sale, and purchase of enslaved people up until emancipation was enacted in New York in 1827. Few sources exist on the personal details or experiences of Brooklyn’s enslaved population, especially before the American Revolution. But the dozens of bills of sale and indentures in the Lefferts family papers provide the names, ages, and other information about the enslaved men and women that helped build Brooklyn."

http://www.brooklynhistory.org/exhibitions/lefferts/slavery-in-brooklyn/

"The journey of Afro-Caribbean peoples to the United States started long ago, when enslaved Barbadians were taken by their British owners to South Carolina during the seventeenth century. Indeed, most of the earliest Africans to arrive in what would become the United States were seasoned men, women, and children from the Caribbean.

This first involuntary migration was followed by a large influx of people from the British West Indies at the turn of the twentieth century. A third wave of immigrants arrived between 1930 and 1965, and a fourth movement is still going on today. 

The dispersal of Caribbean people was facilitated by a remarkable network of transportation. Since the seventeenth century Bridgetown, Barbados, had served as the first port of call for British ships crossing the Atlantic. By the beginning of the twentieth century, shipping networks extended from Bridgetown to all parts of the world. It was therefore not just the intolerable conditions on Barbados or the opportunity for work abroad that resulted in the extraordinary migrant stream from the island. An indispensable element was its working class's unique access to relatively cheap transportation to a variety of different points across the globe.

Jamaica also benefited from an extensive shipping network. At the end of the nineteenth century, this was augmented by the development of the banana trade between the United States and what would become the United Fruit Company. Its banana ships always made room for passengers. Boston was their first port of call; later New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, and other ports were added. This facilitated greater and cheaper access for immigrants from the island to the U.S."

http://www.inmotionaame.org/print.cfm;jsessionid=f830652911473133439690?migration=10&bhcp=1

Flatfix

Thanks @homeowner great detail! I'm Interested in Crown Hieghts rather than all of Brooklyn. Since the article whynot mentioned said CH. Weeksville goes way back to slavery.

homeowner

Weeksville does, but you should also do some research on Pigtown, another local community of color which was in the area we now thing of as either Crown Heights South or PLG (depending on who you talk to). Pigtown included all of those poor immigrants that were originally not considered white including Africans, Italians, and Irish. My point was simply that there has always been a pretty significant community of color in the borough and among the black community the majority of those folks can trace their heritage directly or indirectly through the path of the African Diaspora to the Caribbean.  

yesbrooklyn

@flatfix CH was an old jewish neighborhood.  Not like the Lubavitch, more secular.  I have a bunch of jewish relatives who lived in CH in the teens, 20s, and 30s, 40s

RudolfAhrens

NYC planning doc from 1970 details demographic shifts. Crown Heights was 2/3 black at that time. 

http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/c42cb93f-8e13-ca65-e040-e00a18064e5c

Flatbush is one of the more recently Caribbean areas - the population only started arriving in the late 60s and the shift happened by the end of the 70s. 

Flatfix

This is great information @RudolfAhrens @yesbrooklyn @homeowner And enlightening.

RudolfAhrens

During the 70s, a wave of Caribbean immigrants was welcomed by the Catholic Churches in Crown Heights and Flatbush. Catholicism formed a link between the older residents, Irish and Germans, and newer residents, Haitians and Trinidadians. 

Here's a 1975 Nytimes story about Haitian priests welcoming refugees with the aid of the Roman Catholic church. 

http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1975/07/23/76373593.html?pageNumber=36

whynot_31

There are remnants of catholic schools in the area, such as the current school for the deaf on Eastern Parkway and Classon.

...formerly a catholic high school.

Barnstormer

And the pattern continues...

Neighborhoods really don't belong to any one particular group for long...Maybe a generation or two and then on to the next group.

Flatfix

So true @Barnstormer and as often murals are used to try to hold on to the past as it slips into the next group. Like the mural at 4th ave and DeGraw showing Eucudorian strife painted about 2003 just as they were selling to the new PS.

homeowner

Flatfix said:

So true @Barnstormer and as often murals are used to try to hold on to the past as it slips into the next group. Like the mural at 4th ave and DeGraw showing Eucudorian strife painted about 2003 just as they were selling to the new PS.

My favorite of the PS murals was a giant one I used to pass by daily in the 80's on 15th Street and 3rd Avenue that read "Donde Esta Alfredo Mendez". I still don't know who Alfredo is or where he might be.

mugofmead111

From Gothamist: 'Slumlord' Matchmaker: Brooklyn Landlord Turns Desperate Strangers Into Sudden Roommates

80 New York Avenue is between Pacific and Dean Streets.

The landlord may or may not have turned what was a rent-stabilized building into a possibly illegal rooming house.

A picture of the building:

pragmaticguy

And it's funny because to convert a LEGAL rooming house into apartments takes about 5 years. I have a couple of clients that went through hell doing it. So it seems that the city wants it both ways.

whynot_31

It is not illegal for a real estate agency to help potential roommates meet, and then rent an apartment.

The trick is that a lease must be involved.

MySpace does this regularly.