This article doesn't say anything you don't already know, but we could use this thread to post future articles on the topic, for those who don't have google.
@southeast, I think that the housing stock on prime blocks in CHS is far and away more desireable than most of what's in CHN. You have detached, and semi-detached homes, most with driveways and/or garages. It doesn't shock me at all, especially when you think that people are paying $1.5 million for brick townhouses in Bed Stuy.
@homeowner I would agree with you. I presume you are referring to CHSE. I am not sure they have much of what you are describing on the west side of CHS; I don't really venture to that area.
However, this is definitely a first. Houses on President between Kingston and New York Avenues have got for that and more for a while now, but not really anywhere else in CHSE. Until now.
People are paying $1.5m for a brick townhouse in Bed Stuy because, as @whynot_31 once noted, nothing draws a crowd, like a crowd. CHSE doesn't have the crowd (yet).
The alleys and driveways which are common in CHSE are indeed awesome.
Beautiful house, semi detached, and if in/near hassidic area its totally understandable it would fetch this price these days. Not an area I desire, but desirable and necessary for others. Meaning hassidic folks kinda need to live within their community and walking distance to schul . Thats why Gravesend houses are astronomically priced by our views, but not if youre a wealthy Syrian garment tycoon.
At the current rate of inflation, it shouldn't take Crown Heights long to go from $987k to over $1M.
A lot of people will never get to own a home here, which is consistent with most expensive neighborhoods in the US.
I'd agree, except that there is a huge gap between median asking price and average selling price, at least at present. CH is still not as expensive as the median asking price would make one think, though this depends on what area of CH one is looking and on the type of home, etc.
The location may be great as a result of the 2/5 stop, but the block is not particularly nice. There is an ugly condo section in the middle on the north side, and a giant building/compound on the south side taking up half the block. I never really liked the look of this block.
And, added to above, it doesn't parking.
Unless being that close to train station adds approximately 25% in value, I would say this listing is that much more than recent sales of comparable properties in the area, but further east.
A lot of the 1920s 2-families just south of Eastern Parkway seem very competitively priced at a bit over ~$1M, considering they are a fast commute to Manhattan, an easy walk/bike ride to many of Brooklyn's nice neighborhoods, and the equal-sized rental space will pay much more of the mortgage than a small garden apartment. And many have parking, too.
In the same fashion as the Second Avenue subway, the Utica subway, along with the remainder of the Nostrand subway, were casualties first of the Great Depression and then postwar urban decline:
Unfortunately, subway construction costs in the US are much higher than they are in, say, Spain, so property values in outer Brooklyn would need to surge far higher to justify any subway construction on Utica.
Maybe after East New York and the South Bronx are full of high rises, and there are no pre-existing subway lines left to build up.
There's actually a station shell for where the unbuilt South Williamsburg subway would cross on its way down Utica Avenue at the A train's Utica stop:
it won't. the conditions under which the current subway system were built were atrocious and before the age of worker's safety and fair union wages. think of how long it's taken them to even just build an *extension* to the Q train as part of the "second avenue line" (which won't really extend further south than midtown, mark my words!), considering how wealthy that area is and how badly it was needed. we'll sooner say goodbye to all of lower manhattan due to flooding than see a Utica ave subway.
come on down the B/Q train to flatbush. our train is lovely! >:}
The Second Avenue Subway is "budgeted at approximately $1.7 billion per kilometers while similar projects in Paris and Berlin have checked in at $250 million per kilometer and a London Tube extension cost $450 million per kilometer."
The cost @ehgee mentioned is just insane. I have no clue how this stuff works, but shouldn't it be cheaper if you just stick to the road; meaning, don't go under buildings? And wouldn't the cost be cheaper in Brooklyn, having less big buildings which may need to be supported?
Under the road in most of Brooklyn is where you have utilities (electric, gas, telecom, etc). I'd guess that building underneath them without disturbing them would be a nightmare plus you need spaces for ventilation, mechanicals, etc. Think about the substations that are tucked away in various neighborhoods and the ventilation shafts under sidewalks along subway lines. 2nd Ave subway proves it can be done, but not without a huge cost. Add to that NY state's need to load additional costs onto public works projects (prevailing wage, WC, etc) and the failure of government to drive large construction projects to completion in a timely manner, and I don't think that we'll see a new Brooklyn subway line in our lifetimes. If someone could make it happen however, it would be a game changer.
That won't impact Crown Heights directly, but will put a lot more trains on the moribund rail line that runs through Canarsie, Brownsville, ENY and Ridgewood. Meanwhile, CH and the close in parts of Nostrand and Utica will continue to grow in popularity as they are close to subway lines. It remains to be seen if the current gentrification will reach the far ends of the system (New Lots, Brooklyn College, etc) and what impacts will result.
Yes, and because such projects take so long to complete, my hope is that they won't be started until their necessity and funding is completely established.
My hope is that we no longer live in an age that politicians can start an ill conceived (really risky) project to appease union interests (ie obtain votes).
It remains to be seen if the current gentrification will reach the far ends of the system (New Lots, Brooklyn College, etc) and what impacts will result.
I don't think it is a matter of if, just a matter of when. Brooklyn College will likely go first. I'd say a couple years.
Gentrification around Brooklyn College has already started. There were a few new condo developments in the area when I was looking 4-5 years ago. The large-scale commercial changes that started with Target are continuing; they even have a Blink Fitness now. I'm waiting to see if the improvements to the streetscape that were promised (#8 on this list: http://www.flatbushjunctionbid.com/top_10_reasons) will actually happen.
A few friends of mine have recently moved to Ditmas, purchased condos and are doing their best to have local businesses cater to their means and preferences.
Yes, that is why SBS/BRT is being implemented on Utica and other routes.
...SBS will be the closest thing we are going to get to new subway service for decades.
If it isn't coupled with enforcement and limited access, it won't achieve its stated goals.
what do you mean by limited access?
i do love a good SBS bus. The B44+ is the only decent way i can get to williamsburg these days.
My boyfriend bought a house close to the "end" of the 2/5 train. Church ave--not quite the end, but close. Apparently a neighbor told him the reason parking is impossible in their area is because everyone from east Flatbush just drives their cars, parks on their street, and takes the 2/5 to work every morning.
i've heard people in east flatbush, flatlands, and mill basin, etc don't want a subway line at all, however. For a lot of reasons i'm sure but most of all because they don't WANT newcomers having easy access to their neighborhood. Not to mention the easiest way to build a utica line south of empire would probably be an elevated track--Utica is a wide, mostly commerical street. sounds like a homeowner's worst nightmare.
as for the freight project, god i hope that happens. Caton Ave in flatbush is full to capacity with giant horrible freight trucks, especially in the mornings. anything to lighten the load.
The nice thing about old news is that it sounds new to a new audience. This one talks about how neighborhood homeowners are being repeatedly offered cash for their homes.
According to a report I heard on CBS radio this morning the average home price in Brooklyn went up 18% last year with the median of co-ops, condos and 1-3 families coming in at $618,000. So I guess that anything you can buy for about $300,000 would be considered affordable housing.
If we use the old "2.5 times salary, and 20% down" rule, that means that a buyer should put $60k down, which would leave them a balance of $240k. They then need to earn $96k a year for 30 years.
The nice thing about old news is that it sounds new to a new audience. This one talks about how neighborhood homeowners are being repeatedly offered cash for their homes.
It's not new, which makes it even more of a pain in the ass. No, I don't want to sell to you. I didn't want to sell to you last week, or last month, or last year, and when you call me the next time I won't want to sell to you either. The people that show up in person are even worse.
While it may appear that the 4 college students splitting the $3500 cost of a 3 bedroom are insane, they may actually be making a good financial decision:
What I like about this article is that it appears in a website aimed at a US audience of quite wealthy people, yet simply refers to the neighborhood as Crown Heights.
They feel no need to state in the headline that Crown Heights is in Brooklyn.
...it as if they assume their audience knows the area. They might be right.
With a backyard and a car, she has found life in Virginia affordable and pleasant, but “extremely boring,” she said.
And that is sadly the usual trade-off in this country. Better schools, affordability, etc. often require a move to extremely boring places in this mostly suburban, mostly boring country.
these stories' summaries are too easy. For in stance:why didn't this girl 's family buy a house if" it was so unnoticed by the wealthy"? And what the heck does that mean anyway? She obviously wants to come back because it has gotten better not because it is still drug infested. Dope journalism.
Everyone in articles such as this use the phrase "deep roots" when referring to the Carribean community. How long has it been honestly? Since the 1950's?
Wrong. The "great migration" of Blacks occurred following WWI. But even prior to that time Blacks had established communities in Brooklyn. From the "discovery" of America through the founding of New Amsterdam there were large populations of enslaved blacks in the county. Most of those remained in the county when NY abolished slavery finally in 1827.
"Between World War I and the 1930s, thousands of southern Blacks filtered into Brooklyn's neighborhoods. They were among the hundreds of thousands who moved to northern cities during the "Great Migration," and by 1930, more than 60% of the African Americans in Brooklyn had been born outside the borough. When the A train was extended from Harlem to Brooklyn in 1936, thousands of African Americans left Harlem in search of better lives and less expensive housing. Thousands of Puerto Rican immigrants also settled in Brooklyn. The trip from Puerto Rico took five days by steamship, but offered an alternative to the poverty and limitations of the tiny island. Puerto Ricans settled in Red Hook, downtown Brooklyn, and Greenpoint, and many found jobs in the needle trades and cigar factories."
"As Kings County’s agricultural economy expanded during the eighteenth century, farmers and landowners like the Leffertses became even more reliant on enslaved labor. In 1698, 15% of Kings County residents were of African descent, and virtually all were enslaved. By 1738, that figure had risen to 25%. In 1790, that number rose again: African Americans accounted for over 30% of Kings County’s population; most were enslaved. In that same year, the population of the town of Flatbush included 378 enslaved people, 12 free black people, and 551 white people – 75% of whom were slaveholders.
As these numbers attest, even after the Revolutionary War, when notions of freedom and liberty permeated the American consciousness, Kings County remained a committed slave society. The area’s farmers relied on enslaved labor for their agricultural needs, even while slavery was on the decline in other parts of New York State.
Like virtually all wealthy families in Flatbush, the Leffertses owned significant numbers of slaves, and engaged in the trade, sale, and purchase of enslaved people up until emancipation was enacted in New York in 1827. Few sources exist on the personal details or experiences of Brooklyn’s enslaved population, especially before the American Revolution. But the dozens of bills of sale and indentures in the Lefferts family papers provide the names, ages, and other information about the enslaved men and women that helped build Brooklyn."
"The journey of Afro-Caribbean peoples to the United States started long ago, when enslaved Barbadians were taken by their British owners to South Carolina during the seventeenth century. Indeed, most of the earliest Africans to arrive in what would become the United States were seasoned men, women, and children from the Caribbean.
This first involuntary migration was followed by a large influx of people from the British West Indies at the turn of the twentieth century. A third wave of immigrants arrived between 1930 and 1965, and a fourth movement is still going on today.
The dispersal of Caribbean people was facilitated by a remarkable network of transportation. Since the seventeenth century Bridgetown, Barbados, had served as the first port of call for British ships crossing the Atlantic. By the beginning of the twentieth century, shipping networks extended from Bridgetown to all parts of the world. It was therefore not just the intolerable conditions on Barbados or the opportunity for work abroad that resulted in the extraordinary migrant stream from the island. An indispensable element was its working class's unique access to relatively cheap transportation to a variety of different points across the globe.
Jamaica also benefited from an extensive shipping network. At the end of the nineteenth century, this was augmented by the development of the banana trade between the United States and what would become the United Fruit Company. Its banana ships always made room for passengers. Boston was their first port of call; later New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, and other ports were added. This facilitated greater and cheaper access for immigrants from the island to the U.S."
Thanks @homeowner great detail! I'm Interested in Crown Hieghts rather than all of Brooklyn. Since the article whynot mentioned said CH. Weeksville goes way back to slavery.
Weeksville does, but you should also do some research on Pigtown, another local community of color which was in the area we now thing of as either Crown Heights South or PLG (depending on who you talk to). Pigtown included all of those poor immigrants that were originally not considered white including Africans, Italians, and Irish. My point was simply that there has always been a pretty significant community of color in the borough and among the black community the majority of those folks can trace their heritage directly or indirectly through the path of the African Diaspora to the Caribbean.
@flatfix CH was an old jewish neighborhood. Not like the Lubavitch, more secular. I have a bunch of jewish relatives who lived in CH in the teens, 20s, and 30s, 40s
Flatbush is one of the more recently Caribbean areas - the population only started arriving in the late 60s and the shift happened by the end of the 70s.
During the 70s, a wave of Caribbean immigrants was welcomed by the Catholic Churches in Crown Heights and Flatbush. Catholicism formed a link between the older residents, Irish and Germans, and newer residents, Haitians and Trinidadians.
Here's a 1975 Nytimes story about Haitian priests welcoming refugees with the aid of the Roman Catholic church.
So true @Barnstormer and as often murals are used to try to hold on to the past as it slips into the next group. Like the mural at 4th ave and DeGraw showing Eucudorian strife painted about 2003 just as they were selling to the new PS.
So true @Barnstormer and as often murals are used to try to hold on to the past as it slips into the next group. Like the mural at 4th ave and DeGraw showing Eucudorian strife painted about 2003 just as they were selling to the new PS.
My favorite of the PS murals was a giant one I used to pass by daily in the 80's on 15th Street and 3rd Avenue that read "Donde Esta Alfredo Mendez". I still don't know who Alfredo is or where he might be.
And it's funny because to convert a LEGAL rooming house into apartments takes about 5 years. I have a couple of clients that went through hell doing it. So it seems that the city wants it both ways.
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5 BROOKLYN NABES WHERE YOU CAN (STILL) BUY A HOUSE FOR UNDER $1 MILLION
Median asking price: $987,000
Number of houses listed: 40
Average sale price as of July 2014: $460,271
Number of houses sold as of July 2014: 200
However, $427k is also pretty exclusive.
We are rapidly becoming an area in which people move after selling their prior home, or after inheriting $.
....not many people are able to buy here solely using the funds they saved from their job as a bus driver, or NYC employee.
They once could, but can not any longer.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-09/brooklyn-home-prices-reach-record-in-third-quarter.html
I have noticed that people are taking the bars off the windows and porches.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-04/brooklyn-worst-in-u-s-for-home-affordability.html
...SBS will be the closest thing we are going to get to new subway service for decades.
If it isn't coupled with enforcement and limited access, it won't achieve its stated goals.
My hope is that we no longer live in an age that politicians can start an ill conceived (really risky) project to appease union interests (ie obtain votes).
Round 1: Crown Heights vs Astoria
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/16/curbed_cup_1st_round_5_crown_heights_vs_12_astoria.php#more
A few of the Big 16 local developments I watch are noted, but they are missing a lot of them: http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/44634/links-to-the-big-16-developments-in-western-crown-heights/p1
http://www.6sqft.com/get-em-while-their-cheaper-a-look-at-crown-heights-real-estate-past-and-present/
http://www.amny.com/real-estate/crown-heights-real-estate-continues-to-boom-1.10033129
As it points out, this is not a new thing. It is actually slowing down: http://gothamist.com/2015/04/08/crown_heights_family_cant_escape_of.php
If we use the old "2.5 times salary, and 20% down" rule, that means that a buyer should put $60k down, which would leave them a balance of $240k. They then need to earn $96k a year for 30 years.
...which, needless to say, the owners find quite annoying.
Said annoyance is often exacerbated when the buyers are of a different hue or class than the owners.
...even if they hire people to pass out the flyers that "match" the owners.
https://blog.personalcapital.com/financial-planning-2/big-city-living-provide-higher-return-investment/
They feel no need to state in the headline that Crown Heights is in Brooklyn.
...it as if they assume their audience knows the area. They might be right.
http://www.designsponge.com/2015/04/a-crown-heights-family-makes-it-work-in-style.html
http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2015/05/10_best_neighborhoods_for_college_grads_in_2015
http://blog.yournewroommate.com/neighborhood-highlights-new-york-rentals-in-crown-heights/
Crown Heights is the "Living In" neighborhood in this weekends NYT real estate section
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/realestate/crown-heights-brooklyn-where-stoop-life-still-thrives.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fliving-in
The phenomena now seems to be being applied to things that are not even real estate.
"They conclude that value stocks could be as up and coming as Brooklyn neighborhoods like Bushwick, Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights."
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/investing/value-stocks-to-buy/
They are not talking to a Brooklyn audience. OMG.
...but my suspicion is just targeting people who feel they have so far missed out on the Brooklyn boom.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/once-forgotten-weeksville-area-stirs-in-brooklyn-1436522402
Utica Avenue begins selling fruits and vegetables lit up like jewelry?
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20151005/REAL_ESTATE/151009945
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/10/14/1300month_brooklyn_rental_measures_just_220_square_feet.php
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/nyregion/gentrification-in-a-brooklyn-neighborhood-forces-residents-to-move-on.html
We might have a writer for Vice living in Crown Heights. http://www.vice.com/read/hw-what-makes-a-neighborhood-hip
He thinks we are cool.
There is no need to describe the aspects of the neighborhood readers are not interested in...
I suspect these stories keep getting published because they are so easy to write.
As these numbers attest, even after the Revolutionary War, when notions of freedom and liberty permeated the American consciousness, Kings County remained a committed slave society. The area’s farmers relied on enslaved labor for their agricultural needs, even while slavery was on the decline in other parts of New York State.
Like virtually all wealthy families in Flatbush, the Leffertses owned significant numbers of slaves, and engaged in the trade, sale, and purchase of enslaved people up until emancipation was enacted in New York in 1827. Few sources exist on the personal details or experiences of Brooklyn’s enslaved population, especially before the American Revolution. But the dozens of bills of sale and indentures in the Lefferts family papers provide the names, ages, and other information about the enslaved men and women that helped build Brooklyn."
"The journey of Afro-Caribbean peoples to the United States started long ago, when enslaved Barbadians were taken by their British owners to South Carolina during the seventeenth century. Indeed, most of the earliest Africans to arrive in what would become the United States were seasoned men, women, and children from the Caribbean.
This first involuntary migration was followed by a large influx of people from the British West Indies at the turn of the twentieth century. A third wave of immigrants arrived between 1930 and 1965, and a fourth movement is still going on today.
The dispersal of Caribbean people was facilitated by a remarkable network of transportation. Since the seventeenth century Bridgetown, Barbados, had served as the first port of call for British ships crossing the Atlantic. By the beginning of the twentieth century, shipping networks extended from Bridgetown to all parts of the world. It was therefore not just the intolerable conditions on Barbados or the opportunity for work abroad that resulted in the extraordinary migrant stream from the island. An indispensable element was its working class's unique access to relatively cheap transportation to a variety of different points across the globe.
Jamaica also benefited from an extensive shipping network. At the end of the nineteenth century, this was augmented by the development of the banana trade between the United States and what would become the United Fruit Company. Its banana ships always made room for passengers. Boston was their first port of call; later New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, and other ports were added. This facilitated greater and cheaper access for immigrants from the island to the U.S."
...formerly a catholic high school.
The trick is that a lease must be involved.
MySpace does this regularly.