Despite my mild concern that this building could block the tiny splinter of manhattan I can see from my window, I'm a little excited for this whole project to get underway.
I can't help but to imagine what 400,000 sq ft of ground floor retail will look like spanning those blocks btwn vandy and barclays. It's like a whole new neighborhood sprouting up.
even though no new information has been presented i didnt grasp just how large this project was until just now. 14 buildings? thats like a micro stuy town. definitely will make vanderbilt much busier in all regards when all is said and done.
Not only Vanderbilt, but Washington, Flatbush (as if Flatbush needs anymore foot traffic) and even Franklin will benefit greatly from increased foot traffic and consumer spending.
It could last a while: The owner is likely earning more from appreciation of the land than from selling combo meals. If I were them, I would do that for as long as I had nothing that provided a higher ROI.
man, this does sort of bum me out. when i lived on dean and washington, on a fine day i would sit on the bench outside woodwork and experience spectacular sunsets over that parking lot. those days are clearly over. i don't live in p heights anymore so i guess i can't be too bummed.
i am a little glad they're condos. i'm sure they'll be insanely expensive when they finally hit the market, but it does seem like pickings are really slim for people looking to buy in this part of brooklyn these days.
I hope the new inhabitants will have the good sense not to have cars! I've lived in Cobble Hill (12 years) and Prospect Heights (5 years), and I think the construction that's been already been done has changed this general area of Brooklyn into something that's more Manhattan-like. I'm not sure it's necessarily benefited all of the businesses in the area, either -- Marco's closed, despite a rave review in the NYT -- and there are other vacant spots on Flatbush and Vandy.
I'm sure it seems cool for new young people with money moving in, but the area has already grown very congested and that's going to really ramp up with two new apt complexes on Dean St between Flatbush and Vanderbilt).
People who prefer a sleepier Brooklyn now need to go quite a bit south. There don't seem to be many areas to throw up large apt complexes in South Brooklyn/Windsor Terrace/Park Slope, thankfully. I think that's a good thing. I'm on my way out of Brooklyn, which I feel sad about, but the areas I've loved no longer hold the appeal they did 10-20 years ago.
I hope the new inhabitants will have the good sense not to have cars! I've lived in Cobble Hill (12 years) and Prospect Heights (5 years), and I think the construction that's been already been done has changed this general area of Brooklyn into something that's more Manhattan-like. I'm not sure it's necessarily benefited all of the businesses in the area, either -- Marco's closed, despite a rave review in the NYT -- and there are other vacant spots on Flatbush and Vandy.
I'm sure it seems cool for new young people with money moving in, but the area has already grown very congested and that's going to really ramp up with two new apt complexes on Dean St between Flatbush and Vanderbilt).
People who prefer a sleepier Brooklyn now need to go quite a bit south. There don't seem to be many areas to throw up large apt complexes in South Brooklyn/Windsor Terrace/Park Slope, thankfully. I think that's a good thing. I'm on my way out of Brooklyn, which I feel sad about, but the areas I've loved no longer hold the appeal they did 10-20 years ago.
The issue is that practically everyone wants a quiet safe neighborhood just outside the main center of activity. If the law is used to keep such a neighborhood intact at its current scale, it becomes astronomically expensive, as we've seen with Greenwich Village/Park Slope/Cobble Hill/etc. Especially when a million people have moved here over the past 20 years or so, and they generally want to live along the subway rather than at the far fringes of the city.
There is, in fact, plenty of room to throw up large apartment complexes in South Brooklyn. The lots of small woodframe houses in South Slope would be a natural spot, but it's mostly illegal under zoning laws. Instead such houses are becoming astronomically expensive, despite being built as humble workingman's housing.
I don't disagree with you, ehgee. As I said, clearly there are people who think the changes to these areas are great and find the 10-20 floor apt complexes awesome. I don't happen to, although I get their appeal for newcomers. I suppose you're right that they're keeping prices down, although not at reasonable levels at over $2k for a 1BR.
I'm just glad there a still charming and quiet pockets in Brooklyn Heights, Carroll Gardens, Ft. Greene, Park Slope, etc. I'm not willing to spend the money for the abbreviated space I can afford in these areas, but I still really enjoy walking around in them.
While the text below is interesting, what I find most revealing is that this project is being described in the same breath as these other 12 buildings:
"In Brooklyn, a behemoth is coming. Greenland Forest City Partners, a partnership between Barclays Center developer Forest City Ratner and Chinese real estate giant Greenland Holding Group, is slated to launch sales at the first of four expected condo towers comprising its massive Pacific Park project in June.
The 17-story luxury tower, under construction on the northwest corner of Vanderbilt Ave. and Dean St. in Prospect Heights, will have 278 units ranging from studios to four-bedroom homes, priced from $550,000 to $5 million. Buyers won’t be able to move in until late 2016, though, since the building is still under construction.
The property, designed by top architecture giant COOKFOX, will have a landscaped roof terrace, a residents’ lounge, a library, a playroom and a fitness center. It’s slated to overlook a brand new 8-acre park, which is also planned as part of Pacific Park.
Corcoran Sunshine Marketing Group is heading up sales."
rode my bike down dean st last weekend and was shocked to see they put up the most imposing wood-painted-green construction fence i've ever seen. it's actually about 2 stories high. sort of creepy to ride next to.
wouldn't be fun to live in the first two floors of any apartment building across the street
I assume the section of the fence that lines Vanderbilt will be taken down once they complete this building, but I expect the rest of it to be up until at least 2019.
$565k for a 415 ft studio. And that's the earlybird special!
My guess, these units will find Chinese buyers paying all cash upfront, who will rent them out and just barely scrap a monthly profit. Anyone paying a mortgage on a unit like this ends up with 3K in monthly expenses. That's too much for a shockingly tiny studio on Atlantic Avenue in prospect heights.
Do y'all seriously think there won't be many owner-residents in this building? The $800,000 price for a 1-bedroom is well within the price range for a professional couple— something like $3,000 a month for the mortgage with good credit. Obviously it's not easy for anyone to save the down payment for that kind of mortgage, but there are a lot of jobs that enable that kind of saving in Manhattan. And the whole inequality thing also means that couples with 6-figure jobs jobs likely have rich parents that could 'help', and might well feel inclined to give their children a nice wedding gift instead of waiting to pass everything on when they die.
My impression is that the all-cash international buyer is either an investment fund buying in neighborhoods they think will appreciate fast like Bed-Stuy, or an individual parking money in a fancy neighborhood in Manhattan. The merely wealthy are then priced out to units like these.
People pay $3,000 a month to rent at 341 Eastern Parkway:
The prices are stupid-high, but they're pretty much in line with what people are paying in Brooklyn these days. Hopefully Atlantic Yards will sop up some of the demand that would otherwise shoot ever-further into PLG and Crown Heights.
"Do y'all seriously think there won't be many owner-residents in this building?"
For the project as a whole, I expect that about 80% of the market rate units will be occupied by tenants more than 70% of the time. Meanwhile, I expect 99% of the rent stabilized (affordable) units to be occupied, more than 99% of the time.
I believe 550 Vanderbilt is all market units.
Pacific Park will create a bunch of units: "In all, the plan, now more than a decade in the making, calls for 14 residential buildings with 6,430 apartments, including 2,250 subsidized units, with a completion date of 2025."
3k for a 1 bedroom is totally normal in this city now. But we're talking 630 ft. Thats quite a bit smaller than average. I live in a condo building of all 600ish ft units. Its almost all singles here. Couples can make it work in this space, but at 4k (mortgage plus CCs), dual owners should opt for the one amenity that this place can't offer, space. They can still find it at that price, elsewhere in the neighborhood.
@whynot_31, just to clarify there is no decision about what kind of school will be located in the complex, other than that it will be a public school facility that is presently proposed to be constructed so its spaces would be suitable for middle school or elementary school students, or both. in this district almost all of our schools are co-located with middle school students in elementary school buildings and vice-versa, and how the building is constructed does not predict its ultimate usage.
prospect heights residents and the larger school community of the district where pacific park is located are urging the DOE to make it into a dedicated middle school. we have been told that no decisions will be made about the utilization of the school for many months, but we are continuing to advocate strongly so the DOE can begin to work with us pro-actively and so parents can know that there are new, high quality options on their way. we're looking to get more input from the stakeholder communities - parents, educators, and potential arts, cultural and tech institutions that could be partners in a first-rate middle school for our district. if anyone is interested in being involved, feel free to DM me!
3k for a 1 bedroom is totally normal in this city now. But we're talking 630 ft. Thats quite a bit smaller than average. I live in a condo building of all 600ish ft units. Its almost all singles here. Couples can make it work in this space, but at 4k (mortgage plus CCs), dual owners should opt for the one amenity that this place can't offer, space. They can still find it at that price, elsewhere in the neighborhood.
I wish that they would have an affordable condo option. Like, affordable for moderate income homeowners. I'd say that they ideal would be 2 bedroom units for around $400-500,000, maybe three bedrooms for up to $700,000, depending on size and view. It could be a lottery, like Navy Greene.
I can't help it. I find it fun to imagine what walking through this thing will be like. One interesting note from the daily news article this came from, while the park is slated for 2025, there will be a swarth of park completed next year with the opening of the first Vanderbilt tower. So, the couples in those tinsy 4k 1 bedrooms (on floor 2!) have something besides a hard hat war zone to peer off on to.
I think you are correct in stating that the park off Vanderbilt, despite opening next year, will largely be looked at until the majority of the complex is complete in 2025.
The noise and the dust won't make it a pleasant place to sit or stroll until then.
It's hard to imagine this as the view from the western end looking east. In reality the building construction comes right to the sidewalk. I don't know where those embankments of grass would sit. There should be a building on top of that young couple.
That's the beauty of renderings; They are not actually part of the offering plan.
So, the people who are buying these units do not have any real recourse if (after closing) they conclude the buildings and the surrounding park do not really look like this.
I'm also interested in seeing how this privately run "open to the public" park is going to operationalize that concept.
Will they dedicate the resources required to keep the homeless out, as Brooklyn Bridge Park, the High Line, and Battery Park City have done?
I think they'll find it easier to keep out the homeless by keeping out the public a la many of the other privately operated public spaces in the city. What this really means is that access will be for limited hours of the day and won't involve teens, people on bikes, skates, skateboards, or any engaging in any other activity normally found in a park.
The above rendering does not show any benches, so they are off to a good start at creating a venue one merely passes through.
I assume that the operators will couple this lack of benches with a rule that says you can not obstruct the walkway (ie stop on it).
All of which will successfully create what the customers seek: A museum to trees and landscaping reminicent of some of the best "you can only come in if you have a bracelet" resorts.
8 am on a saturday morning? Drilling? Can they possibly have an argument as to why this is remotely necessary?
By the way, biked by this morning. I counted 8 stories so far on the shorter portion of the building. That's already taller than the picture. Mr. Oder, what say you?
My wife and I were walking by Friday night, and the construction site was making all sorts of noise in the wind. It didn't look secure, and there was someone there recording video. Anyone who live near there know anything about this?
When: Wednesday, December 9, 6:00PM Where: 55 Hanson Place, First Floor Conference Room
Greenland Forest City Partners will present an overview of the upcoming construction activities surrounding the project. Please plan to arrive promptly in order to provide time for presentations and questions and answers from the community members. If you have any questions please contact Nicole Jordan at atlanticyards@esd.ny.gov.
When this project began, FCP was required to hire local workers.
In response, it agreed to make one of the buildings composed of modular units and construct them at the Navy Yard. Some people claimed that this would foster similar projects in the future.
Applications for affordable apartments at 461 Dean Street to be available in February
In February 2016, applications will be accepted for 181 affordable rental apartments at 461 Dean Street in the Pacific Park (also known as Atlantic Yards) development. Prospective applicants may contact MHANY Management for more information at (718) 246-8080, ext. 224, by email to pacificpark@mutualhousingny.org, or through the HPD Housing Connect web site at http://www.nyc.gov/housingconnect.
this article indicates that they still had over 100 units available at 550 vanderbilt (as of 6 weeks ago) and sales have been slowing down. now that they've decided theyre not going to build the other towers on that block, i wonder if they will still build out the planned public park there. that was the only silver lining to that whole monster project
And those who bought one bedrooms to rent out, just from a model they viewed in a showroom in Hong Kong will have to ask $4000/month rent to cover their monthlies.
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I expect prices to be around $1100 a sq ft, depending on finishes.
I'm guessing it will be one of the Barclays Center buildings when completed.
The corner of Vanderbilt and Dean is visible on the right side of this photo:
Photo via Laurie Cumbo's Facebook feed
Here's the developer's website: http://pacificparkbrooklyn.com/
Press re: the beginning of Pacific Park
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/de-blasio-hails-affordable-complex-3-500-apartments-article-1.2046637
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/16/first_look_at_pacific_parks_shopdesigned_affordable_building.php
http://www.wsj.com/articles/second-apartment-tower-near-barclays-center-in-brooklyn-new-york-breaks-ground-1418668908
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/02/19/forest-city-moves-to-build-23-story-resi-building-at-pacific-park/
http://news.buzzbuzzhome.com/2015/02/550-vanderbilt-pacific-park.html
something something target market something something
That said, hopefully having these flooding into the market will pull down pricing on the Clinton Hill Coops.
From my understanding many of the investors will be benefitting from a program that rewards them with US citizenship.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=chinese+investment+in+us+for+citizenship&gbv=2&oq=chinese+investment+US+citizen&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.0.0i8i30.1172.8160.0.10953.29.22.0.7.7.0.452.2087.19j2j4-1.22.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.29.2117.xbyQ9uDYAHg
http://m.nydailynews.com/life-style/real-estate/13-hottest-new-nyc-condos-hitting-market-article-1.2186549
"In Brooklyn, a behemoth is coming. Greenland Forest City Partners, a partnership between Barclays Center developer Forest City Ratner and Chinese real estate giant Greenland Holding Group, is slated to launch sales at the first of four expected condo towers comprising its massive Pacific Park project in June.
The 17-story luxury tower, under construction on the northwest corner of Vanderbilt Ave. and Dean St. in Prospect Heights, will have 278 units ranging from studios to four-bedroom homes, priced from $550,000 to $5 million. Buyers won’t be able to move in until late 2016, though, since the building is still under construction.
The property, designed by top architecture giant COOKFOX, will have a landscaped roof terrace, a residents’ lounge, a library, a playroom and a fitness center. It’s slated to overlook a brand new 8-acre park, which is also planned as part of Pacific Park.
Corcoran Sunshine Marketing Group is heading up sales."
It is going to be weathered and warped by then.
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/06/01/pacific-park-is-getting-a-new-26-story-resi-tower/
278 ft tall.
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=1&passjobnumber=320625267&passdocnumber=01
Here's the latest succinct description:
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/06/01/pacific-park-is-getting-a-new-26-story-resi-tower/
These buildings with be filled with people's primary and secondary residences, along with office space and retail.
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2015/06/atlantic-yards-condos-on-vanderbilt-debut-at-565000/
...but you can't move in yet.
Mortgage?
I suspect the vast majority of the people buying in these buildings will buy the units largely in cash.
For some, it may be a second home that is rarely used.
Other may choose to have a mortgage, but only to the extent that the tax benefits suit them.
....I don't think these units are going to be filled by residents trying to make ends meet.
More press:
http://www.550vanderbilt.com/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/realestate/first-condos-soon-for-sale-at-barclays-center-site.html?_r=1
For the project as a whole, I expect that about 80% of the market rate units will be occupied by tenants more than 70% of the time. Meanwhile, I expect 99% of the rent stabilized (affordable) units to be occupied, more than 99% of the time.
I believe 550 Vanderbilt is all market units.
Pacific Park will create a bunch of units:
"In all, the plan, now more than a decade in the making, calls for 14
residential buildings with 6,430 apartments, including 2,250 subsidized
units, with a completion date of 2025."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/realestate/first-condos-soon-for-sale-at-barclays-center-site.html?_r=0 ;
...but I don't know that we will ever be able to definitively declare it affected the changes occurring in elsewhere.
http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/45695/pacific-park-to-create-new-middle-school-for-prospect-heights/p1
@whynot_31, just to clarify there is no decision about what kind of school will be located in the complex, other than that it will be a public school facility that is presently proposed to be constructed so its spaces would be suitable for middle school or elementary school students, or both. in this district almost all of our schools are co-located with middle school students in elementary school buildings and vice-versa, and how the building is constructed does not predict its ultimate usage.
prospect heights residents and the larger school community of the district where pacific park is located are urging the DOE to make it into a dedicated middle school. we have been told that no decisions will be made about the utilization of the school for many months, but we are continuing to advocate strongly so the DOE can begin to work with us pro-actively and so parents can know that there are new, high quality options on their way. we're looking to get more input from the stakeholder communities - parents, educators, and potential arts, cultural and tech institutions that could be partners in a first-rate middle school for our district. if anyone is interested in being involved, feel free to DM me!
Check out these interiors and finishes. http://newyorkyimby.com/2015/06/revealed-more-interiors-for-550-vanderbilt-avenue-pacific-park.html
BTW, a rendering for 38 Sixth Avenue was published today. It will rise in an area that used to have bike rikes.
Curbed published it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/29/realestate/affordable-new-york-apartments-with-a-catch.html?_r=0
http://www.nyshcr.org/Programs/Mitchell-Lama/
...but using those types of subsidizes to create NEW ownership housing for NYC's middle class has fallen out of fashion.
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/06/24/a-look-at-forest-citys-8-acre-pacific-park-green-space/
There is no word whether it will have the private security and clean up crews that places like Battery Park City employ, but that seems likely.
The noise and the dust won't make it a pleasant place to sit or stroll until then.
...but the impact of 550 Vanderbilt is here to stay.
636 sq ft in it will run you $960k.
1 BR, 1 BA
http://www.corcoran.com/nyc/Listings/Display/3481725
http://www.archdaily.com/768997/cookfox-architects-550-vanderbilt-condo-opens-for-sale
So, the people who are buying these units do not have any real recourse if (after closing) they conclude the buildings and the surrounding park do not really look like this.
I'm also interested in seeing how this privately run "open to the public" park is going to operationalize that concept.
Will they dedicate the resources required to keep the homeless out, as Brooklyn Bridge Park, the High Line, and Battery Park City have done?
I assume that the operators will couple this lack of benches with a rule that says you can not obstruct the walkway (ie stop on it).
All of which will successfully create what the customers seek: A museum to trees and landscaping reminicent of some of the best "you can only come in if you have a bracelet" resorts.
more photos:
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/10/21/pacific_parks_550_vanderbilt_takes_shape_in_brooklyn.php#more
I don't know why it works on my phone and not yours
When: Wednesday, December 9, 6:00PM
Where: 55 Hanson Place, First Floor Conference Room
Greenland Forest City Partners will present an overview of the upcoming construction activities surrounding the project. Please plan to arrive promptly in order to provide time for presentations and questions and answers from the community members. If you have any questions please contact Nicole Jordan at atlanticyards@esd.ny.gov.
When this project began, FCP was required to hire local workers.
In response, it agreed to make one of the buildings composed of modular units and construct them at the Navy Yard. Some people claimed that this would foster similar projects in the future.
Well, I hope they were looking into the distant future, because it seems this method of constructing buildings is economically not feasible to the degree that the Navy Yard facility will be closed once the building is completed.
Here's press on how the first building has now topped out.
A collection of the renderings:
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2015/12/pacific-park-rendering-664-pacific-street-b15/
In February 2016, applications will be accepted for 181 affordable rental apartments at 461 Dean Street in the Pacific Park (also known as Atlantic Yards) development. Prospective applicants may contact MHANY Management for more information at (718) 246-8080, ext. 224, by email to pacificpark@mutualhousingny.org, or through the HPD Housing Connect web site at http://www.nyc.gov/housingconnect.
The buildings to be built along 6th Avenue now have renderings:
http://newyorkyimby.com/2016/03/new-renderings-released-for-38-sixth-avenue-in-pacific-park.html
6th Avenue site now going up:
http://newyorkyimby.com/2016/04/23-story-303-unit-affordable-residential-tower-rises-at-38-sixth-avenue-prospect-heights.html
Some details re: the affordable units in 461 Dean http://ny.curbed.com/2016/4/26/11511436/pacific-park-modular-building-461-dean-affordable-housing-lottery
more: http://fortgreenefocus.com/blog/2016/04/26/181-units-lottery-tomorrow/
Advertised in surrounding CBs as well:
Despite not being ready for occupancy, 550 Vanderbilt is now 50% sold.
http://therealdeal.com/2016/06/29/pacific-parks-550-vanderbilt-is-50-percent-sold/
"Nine months after officially launching sales, Pacific Park Brooklyn’s first condominium building is 50 percent sold, the developer said.
More than 140 units at 550 Vanderbilt Avenue are now in contract, with a blended average sale price of $1,500 per square foot."
Prices of the remaining units:
http://550vanderbilt.com/availability/
IE Part of the appeal of these apartments are that they make the buyer eligible for citizenship.
Has the perceived value of citizenship been decreased as a result of Trump's proposed spending cuts, and general persona?