Who owns what neighborhood?

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Who owns what neighborhood?

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armchair_warrior
retsop cixelsyd
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 7,946

does any group has rights to a neighborhood if they been living there for so long etc..?

My personal feelings is no its all about economics, life should be fluid. people come and go. like brooklyn, one time alot of the poor neighborhoods were rich and middle/upper middle class and white. and "white" flight came and now reversed.

Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Mamacita
Stuck in the middle with you
Joined: Dec '06
Posts: 9,479

The illuminati owns it all!

(\__/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”)

# Posted 2 yrs ago
SnowboardQueen
getting it
Joined: Jan '09
Posts: 248

Very interesting question.

Are there any rights in particular you're curious about?

Like, renaming of streets, parks etc.

Just trying to focus in on the question.

snowboarding, photography, films, art, counter culture, alternative

# Posted 2 yrs ago
armchair_warrior
retsop cixelsyd
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 7,946

some local person goes you are in my neighborhood in general what gives him the right to the neighborhood vs the new people who moved in. the new person is the outsider unwanted by the person who lived there for some time and feels that new person don't belong to his neighborhood and he feels it exclusively belongs to his ethnic group.

in Brooklyn we can apply this to many gentrifying neighborhoods, same thing goes for Manhattan.

Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Interesting question.

Ideally everyone should work together.

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
dailyheights
Honorary Fellow
Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 4,619

If you're not Lenape, you're a gentrifier. Next question.

From: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lenape01.jpg

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# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

People whos ancestors were brought here against their will by other peoples ancestors are never gentrifiers.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
dailyheights
Honorary Fellow
Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 4,619

Lenape were first. End of story.

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# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

You gotta be kidding me. Your people brought people here against their will violently and you have the nerve to say that? Big difference between forcefully taking over peoples land, countries, villages and neighbourhoods and being brought by force by those same people when you just wanted to stay in your own village that was forcefully taken over by those same people who are still taking everyones shit today. Happy Black History month even though every month is Black History Month.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
dailyheights
Honorary Fellow
Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 4,619

You're the one who's making it a black vs white issue. That had nothing to do with my point. I regret replying to your comment, and I'm done here.

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# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

Oh, the comedy.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
ntfool
above average
Joined: Sep '08
Posts: 483

White people, obviously.

If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

spurn Productions, Inc.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
armchair_warrior
retsop cixelsyd
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 7,946

since someone turn this into a black and white issue. i'm gonna play devil's advocate.

aren't blacks here better off than say staying in Africa? people are dying trying to get here or Europe from Africa. also Africans sold other African no Europeans actually went into the interior or coast to get slaves. The actually slave getting was done by local tribes and kingdoms.

Black American's are consider whitey when they go to Africa.

Just something to consider before we turn this thing into a race filled post.

There are black gentrifiers, look at Harlem those moving out are usually poor, those who move in usually have more money and those who have more money also happen to be black more so than white folks.

White faces just happen to get notice more.

Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,015

AW-

This guy thinks he owns the name "Lower East Side"
http://gothamist.com/2011/02/03/man_who_owns_lower_east_side_sues_j.php

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
stacey
rocking it
Joined: Mar '05
Posts: 3,524

Any block that has a street sign with St. on it belong to me (St being short for Stacey).

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,399

Stacey, you and I are gonna have a problem: St. stands for "Stein"!

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

Wrong!

[+] Embed this video

Text-Link:

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Embed:

Have you ever even been to Africa armchair?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
stacey
rocking it
Joined: Mar '05
Posts: 3,524

booklaw said:
Stacey, you and I are gonna have a problem: St. stands for "Stein"!

You can have Steinway St. then

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,015

I predict the guy who thinks he owns the terms "Lower East Side" will be told by a court that he is confused. ...or perhaps whoever granted him the trademark was confused.

...just like those who claim to own any neighborhood are confused.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
ntfool
above average
Joined: Sep '08
Posts: 483

nofay said:
You gotta be kidding me. Your people brought people here against their will violently and you have the nerve to say that? Big difference between forcefully taking over peoples land, countries, villages and neighbourhoods and being brought by force by those same people when you just wanted to stay in your own village that was forcefully taken over by those same people who are still taking everyones shit today. Happy Black History month even though every month is Black History Month.

I realize that I'm opening up a can of something here, but really, I'm just words on screen to you. So who, pray tell, do you assume "my people" to be?

And, given that you don't anything about me or my lineage, what sort of restitution do you believe I owe you?

If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

spurn Productions, Inc.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

I wasnt talking to you.
I did however look at your website.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
ntfool
above average
Joined: Sep '08
Posts: 483

Great! I love the hits, thanks. Feel free to come out to a show sometime... we're on hiatus at the moment, but will likely pull something together in the fall. Our ten-year anniversary show, actually.

And sorry, for some reason I thought you were referring to me. Be that as it may, I have no intention of picking a fight with you or anything, but with the rhetoric you're spinning here, it seems like you're looking for one.

It is hard for me to accept the idea that any one particular group of folks are "owed" any ownership privileges to any part of our fair city. I was just as annoyed when predominantly Jewish sections of Crown Heights attempted to get the bike lanes moved out of their corner of town, so that the ladies pedaling by in light workout clothing would not offend their hallowed senses.

Basically, any sense of unearned entitlement tends to rankle me.

Oh, very interesting video, by the way. Quite informative, and, I believe, strikingly accurate. But that's not to say that some groups of Africans didn't at some point in their history traffic in slave trade. I recall that the Berbers in the 7th or 8th century seemed pretty happy to sell fellow Africans to the neighboring Persian Empire for wealth, security and profit.

If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

spurn Productions, Inc.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

I saw the people on your website and please stop spitting your rhetoric.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay said:
People whos ancestors were brought here against their will by other peoples ancestors are never gentrifiers.

About 50% of the people in my building are Black. All of the people in my building are in the same socioeconomic ballpark - certainly above average on the block. By your logic, my Black neighbors are not gentrifiers, while the non-Blacks are? How does this make sense?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

WhyFi said:
About 50% of the people in my building are Black. All of the people in my building are in the same socioeconomic ballpark - certainly above average on the block. By your logic, my Black neighbors are not gentrifiers, while the non-Blacks are? How does this make sense?

So you want a trophy because you live in a building with Black people?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

No, I want you to explain the logic of your statement that Black people cannot be gentrifiers.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

Black people do not push other Black people out nor look at them as an "element" they want out of their community. White people, once they get fixated on an area want it all to themselves. IE williamsburg, fort greene, park slope, boerum hill. Big difference. Black people are allowed to have money too you know.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay said:
Black people do not push other Black people out nor look at them as an "element" they want out of their community. White people, once they get fixated on an area want it all to themselves. IE williamsburg, fort greene, park slope, boerum hill. Big difference. Black people are allowed to have money too you know.

My Black neighbors didn't move in with existing tenants - they moved in to empty apartments, just as my non-Black neighbors did - how is one not pushing out Blacks while the other is?

Do you feel that only (what you would consider) Black neighborhoods can experience gentrification? What about poor Latino communities? Poor White communities? Poor Asian communities?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

All but poor white.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay said:
All but poor white.

And my first question?

WhyFi said:
My Black neighbors didn't move in with existing tenants - they moved in to empty apartments, just as my non-Black neighbors did - how is one not pushing out Blacks while the other is?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

And so???

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay said:
And so???

You're not answering the question - how is one displacing a Black family when the other is not?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

Black people support each other and live in somewhat of harmony regardless of economic differences. The way you are describing it, sounds like said building was cleared out by the developer.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Domino
Putting the FUN in Dysfunctional
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 572

I think the point that everyone is missing is the power of green. It is not about white, black, yellow, etc. He who has the dollars controls the neighborhood.

If housing has been neglected - or deemed no longer desirable by one group (i.e., manufacturing jobs have been relocated) the "better the bang for the buck". It is not a phenomena just related to predominantly all black communities. Nor is it just white pushing out the black.

Borough Park was previously white and has become a Hasidic (white) enclave. Why? Hasidics have large families and require the space afforded by the old, large victorians. The sellers (most probably Italians) have families that have shrunk in size and have relocated to NJ suburbia (the American hype of a McMansion and an SUV). Brighton Beach was white and has been a white Russian enclave for MANY years. Sunset Park was white Scandinavian and now is a combination of Hispanic, Asian and "returning" white. Same for Carroll Gardens. Same for Fort Greene.

It is all cyclical.

WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

If someone starts a collection to repatriate nofay to Africa, I will cheerfully contribute, even though my (white, poor, European) ancestors had exactly nothing to do with his presence here.

I don't want anyone to be where they're not happy.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

Bad analogy. White is white in amerikkka. Try again.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay said:
Black people support each other and live in somewhat of harmony regardless of economic differences. The way you are describing it, sounds like said building was cleared out by the developer.

Really? I thought that Black-on-Black crime was a big issue in the community.

Back to the off-topic - summary of your opinion thus far:

*Blacks are incapable of being gentrifiers.
*White communities, no matter how poor, are incapable of being gentrified.
*All races, with the exception of White folk, are subject to gentrification.

Question - can other races, besides Blacks, be gentrifiers? Or can only Whites be gentrifiers?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Domino
Putting the FUN in Dysfunctional
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 572

Sorry Nofay - I don't care what support system is in place in ANY neighborhood, a home owner will try to realize the highest price possible regardless of what neighbors he leaves behind. An apartment will be rented to the renter willing to pay the highest price.

WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

eastbloc said:
If someone starts a collection to repatriate nofay to Africa, I will cheerfully contribute, even though my (white, poor, European) ancestors had exactly nothing to do with his presence here.

I don't want anyone to be where they're not happy.

Ok I never understood why eastern europeans are like the niggas of white people when they are actually the whitest ones. Why is this? But also why are they so racist? I have been beaten with a baseball bat in greenpoint for no other reason than just being there yet western europeans view you the same so wtf!?!?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay said:
Bad analogy. White is white in amerikkka. Try again.

Cute.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,015

endearing

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

Disgusting.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,015

We are starting to sound like a HSBC ad

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

nofay said:
Ok I never understood why eastern europeans are like the niggas of white people when they are actually the whitest ones. Why is this?

The race relationship you're fixated on is just one example of a largely recurrent theme in human psychosociology.

But also why are they so racist? I have been beaten with a baseball bat in greenpoint for no other reason than just being there yet western europeans view you the same so wtf!?!?

Many aren't, but some unfortunately suffer from the same poverty of perspective as you.

The ones so afflicted are interestingly more inclined to brandish baseball bats.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

WhyFi said:Question - can other races, besides Blacks, be gentrifiers? Or can only Whites be gentrifiers?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

So in your eyes, being poor gives people a license to beat people who look different to them with bats in a large group while screaming any and every racial slur?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,015

So in your eyes, being ~~poor~~ ignorant gives people a license to beat people who look different to them with bats in a large group while screaming any and every racial slur?

....it's all about whether people open their eyes, or embrace their fear and ignorance.

One can be ignorant and wealthy. One can be ignorant and poor.

One can be ignorant and of any race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

"One Human Family"

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nofay
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 143

Poverty of perspective? That is what i mainly see on this board.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

nofay, I see that you're ignoring my question - how cruel to deny me your perspective...

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,015

noofay-
We all see what we want to see.

But, I'm all for you confronting such poverty when you see it.

However, you may first want to get people to clarify their statements before believing you have found the enemy most of us seek to destroy.

Sadly, this medium does not provide the writer or the reader to send-receive much intonation, or sarcasm.

I also look forward to your answer to Whyfi's question.....

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago