Would Walmart be good for Brooklyn?

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Would Walmart be good for Brooklyn?

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krowonhill
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 248

Walmart is currently in negotiations with developers to open at the Gateway II shopping center site near Jamaica Bay. A city council meeting is set for tomorrow 1/12 as part of the approval process. The company has some severe critics on the council.

Meanwhile, Walmart spokespeople have claimed through the Daily News that the large majority of Brooklynites (76%) think the store's a good thing for our borough (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/survey_says_walmart_good_fit_for_k3OKBoREWjLDsb53cp5U3H).

Is this true? Do you guys want Walmart here?

Very un- "sivilized".

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,409

Not I... but are we representative of the larger Brooklyn population?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

That's really far for people who don't have cars

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
krowonhill
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 248

According to Mayor Bloomberg's Deputy Press Secretary, Andrew Brent:

"People that live in this city are going outside the city to shop at Wal-Mart, so if they're going to shop at Wal-Mart they might as well live here. They might as well have the jobs here and the tax revenues here. The City does not have the right to say to one business, 'You can't come here,' and we're not going to do that."

Given these realities, how could anyone be against Walmart? (Booklaw?)

Very un- "sivilized".

# Posted 2 yrs ago
dailyheights
Honorary Fellow
Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 4,619

maybe this is an over-obvious point, but Brooklyn is one of the last places in America where small business retail ("mom and pop shops") are still viable. So anything working against that would be a bad thing, in my opinion. The counter argument is OMG CHEAP STUFF!

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# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

Target has done a great job at locating their stores in areas that are near transit: Brooklyn College, Atlantic Center, etc. I think that is a key to their success b/c a lot of New Yorkers don't have a car.

...newspapers consistently point out that Atlantic Center's Target is among the highest grossing in the country, despite having no parking lot. (it is also a mess and often out of stock of items, but that may be due to its inability to keep up with demand).

I jabber about Target b/c, as a result of their locations, I see them as much more of a threat to the small businesses than a Walmart at Gateway.

Target has been in the city for something like 10 years.

Other than that, I see very little difference between Target and Walmart. ....at least not enough difference to trek to the Gateway Mall to save a few dollars over what I would have spent at Target.

But as Booklaw points out, I doubt I am the market Walmart will thrive on.

Summary: Although I probably won't go there, I am confident that Walmart will come and that it will thrive. Yup, some more small stores will go under. ....but there are some many things against those little stores (the internet, friends with cars and access to the suburbs, target, etc)....

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
rezist
getting it
Joined: Oct '07
Posts: 138

I'm not a fan of big box stores or the affect they can have on communities or the environment. However there are already many of these stores in nyc, Costco, Kmart, BJ's, Target, and more. It's another case of capitalistic cannibalism. It's impossible for smaller shops to compete with places like Walmart in terms of pricing on most products. Many people can't afford to support local when toilet paper is twice the price at the corner store or supermarket.

I'm sure they'll give the go-ahead to build, but I certainly won't be shopping there.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,409

Visit Costco in Sunset Park some Sunday afternoon... It will be so crowded you can't bend over or turn around. It will be full of huge Hispanic and Hasidic families buying enormous quantities of everything imaginable.

Walmart doesn't specialize in mass quantities like Costco; its forte is cheap... Everything is less expensive there than almost anywhere else. There are many, many people in Brooklyn and Queens who desperately need cheap. They will be happy to have a Walmart to shop at.

I don't like Walmart, or anyplace that pushes price over quality. I especially don't like a store that pays its employees the legal minimum (and, in the case of female employees, allegedly less than the legal minimum), in order to keep its prices low and its stock price high.

But I can afford the luxury of despising Walmart... Many others cannot, and I do not begrudge them the right to save money by shopping there.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

Have any of you guys been to Gateway? Its got a BJ's, a Staples, a Super Target, a Home Depot, a Famous Footwear, a Marshall's, a Circuit City, Old Navy and Kids R'Us. Walmart would not steal business away from local stores if it locates at Gateway, its going to cannibalize business from another big chain stores. Gateway is probably the best location to assure that small mom and pop stores don't get affected. The problem comes when Walmart uses their success at Gateway as a reason to open a second store in downtown Brooklyn.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
armchair_warrior
retsop cixelsyd
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 7,946

alot of people drive to target just park underground :p.

also people who shop at like walmart and people who use some of the smaller shops are two different demographics. they can live happily next to each other.

btw if you try to talk about real brooklyn politics and local politicians would be doa. but walmart or bikes or something wouldn't be doa.

Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).

# Posted 2 yrs ago
armchair_warrior
retsop cixelsyd
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 7,946

been to gateway since it open, beats the costco in brooklyn cause its alot less people :p at the bj's(well almost as bad, but easier to find a shopping cart slightly).

Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
M Train Devotee, G Train Appreciator
Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

Funny, I just finished reading Nickle and Dimed (very good read), where the author spent time trying to see if she could live on Walmart minimum wage (answer: basically no).

Walmart is good for poorer people because it affords them cheap goods. But Walmart's stuff is kept cheap b/c they, like most other minimum wage employers, don't pay their employees a livable wage. (Also Walmart's supposed health insurance is too expensive for many minimum wage employees.)

As the book says, Walmart and similar stores are able to offer artificially cheap goods because they can find employees who are willing to work for unlivable wages while sacrificing their time and health so we can buy $3 tube socks.

Walmart is bad for American society.

Is this one store bad for Brooklyn? who the hell knows

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
the collection next door
rookie newb
Joined: May '08
Posts: 23

the poll showing that brooklyn wants wal-mart was commissioned by wal-mart. i would take it's results with a grain of salt and a margarita underneath.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
arlette
bklyn born and bred
Joined: Aug '07
Posts: 537

I dont think putting a Walmart at Gateway is taking away from the mom and pop stores. I jut dont understand. If you dont want to shop at Walmart than dammit...dont. If you still want to patronize mom and pop stores then dammit do.Why cant they both exist?Not even close in proximity to one another to be a problem. I hope they put a super walmart in brooklyn to save me a trip upstate.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Domino
Putting the FUN in Dysfunctional
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 572

I confess to Costco runs for dog food, cat food and paper products. I confess to Mom & Pop runs for munchies, veggies and "last minute damn I forgot" items. Would I buy anything at Wal-Mart? Not sure - pretty much have it covered under options A & B. Do not buy toiletries at Costco or local mom & pop stores (drug store by work) and would never buy clothing at any of the above.

As for arguments on wages paid, exactly how many employees do mom & pop stores have and what average wage do those employees earn? Were the bodegas annihilated by the larger supermarkets in certain areas? Not as I can see. The debate on whether whether Wal-Mart will annihilate the local mom & pop store or bodega seems pretty much the same.

WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
krowonhill
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 248

A report published under the auspices of Hunter College's Center for Community Planning and Development does indeed substantiate that Wal-Mart's encroachment into an area will likely result in the subsequent failure of small, locally-owned businesses. From the report, http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/files/Walmart.pdf:

• Wal-Mart’s entry into a new market has a strongly negative effect on existing retailers. Supermarkets and discount variety stores are the most adversely affected sectors, suffering sales declines of 10 to 40% after Wal-Mart moves in.

• Stores near a new Wal-Mart are at increased risk of going out of business. After a single Wal-Mart opened in Chicago in September 2006, 82 of the 306 small businesses in the surrounding neighborhood had gone out of business by March 2008.

The report concluded that the entry of even a single Wal-Mart store in New York City could have a snowball effect and result in a negative long-term cumulative impact on the city’s economy and continued decline of the middle class. A single small Wal-Mart, or a single superstore, could mean the demise of existing food retailers, end local retail, and hurt working families. I recommend it if you're interested in this discussion.

Very un- "sivilized".

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

I think most of us agree that Walmart puts small businesses who directly compete with it out of business. ...I find it kind of sad that NYC and Hunter spent money to create a report to tell us what we already knew: Never fight someone larger than yourself.

Assuming the effect on small business and wages aren't disputed, the job of those opposed to Walmart's entry is to show why we should prevent one specific company from entering the NYC market, how under current law such an action would be legal or enforceable.

[I have yet to hear this argrument from Walmart's detractors]

To the contrary, banning Walmart to protect the owners and employees of small businesses might be a valid technique if we were on an island and they were the only predator of our endangered species, but we are not on an island. Such protectionism and isolationism won't work as a result.

There are already many things currently against the small business owner; Things far larger than even Walmart, as huge as it is.....

Like small towns in America, small businesses are destined to gradually disappear unless they can find a way to effectively compete and adapt.

Wait.
Are we supposed to rescue small towns as well? I hear they have quaint ways of life, and friendly diners. I hear you can have a backyard, basement, garage and a driveway.

Over the past 30 years, many treasurers of small towns learned that the only thing worse than having a Walmart locate in their town, was having a Walmart locate in the town beside them.

The government of NYC faces this same choice.

Although you may hate the trends toward lower paying jobs and corporatization that Walmart champions, the longer that NYC fails to adapt the longer the cost of living in NYC is inflated relative to places that have have one.

Every time a tax dollar leaves NYC I cry. Target has helped the city government and its residents tremendously.

If small business owners and their employees can't adapt and compete, they will disappear. Like it or not, there isn't much you, I or anyone else can do about it.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
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Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

If Walmart was forced to pay its employees living wages and treat them with more respect and realistic living conditions, its financial and structural advantages over mom and pop stores would significantly lessen.

As for arguments on wages paid, exactly how many employees do mom & pop stores have and what average wage do those employees earn?

the power to abuse and under-pay employees is significantly less with mom and pop stores. At one point (and maybe still) Walmart was the biggest private employer in the world. How much disproportionate power do you think they wield when it comes to lobbyists, political donations, and labor practices?

It's the same as how McDonald's pretty much dictates the practices of one of the most abusive and destructive industries in America today (beef production & processing) due to their massive market share.

Companies like Walmart and McDonald's have little sense of social contract or loyalty to what's good for a majority of the American people, especially with regards to the poor or minimum wage workers. In other words, the most vulnerable.

Walmart is not good for American people (and perhaps worldwide too) and is able to perpetrate destructive practices on a very wide scale with little oversight or social responsibility.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
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Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

Although you may hate the trends toward lower paying jobs and corporatization that Walmart champions, the longer that NYC fails to adapt the longer the cost of living in NYC is inflated relative to places that have have one.

are you defining cost of living mostly by how much things cost at delis vs walmarts?

Walmart doesn't pay people livable wages or provide them with affordable health care.

This creates great strain on the NYC population both in income, budgets and quality of life.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

BG, we agree on every point except "what do we do about it?"

....My argument is that we (the good people of NYC) are not in charge.

To fight Walmart to protect a former way of life is futile.

There are too many other corporations that will simply step in to Walmart's void.

Globalization comes to Brooklyn, like it or not.

This isn't a question of whether it is "good for us".

I'd love to live in a world where everyone made a living wage and got health insurance. Walmart is coming.

For those unable to adapt, it will suck. The NYC Government is foolish to fight something that is larger than it.

Walmart is the LESSER evil than trying remain as we are.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Walkathon
getting it
Joined: Nov '09
Posts: 105

If WalMart wants to come to Brooklyn I would require Walmart to be unionized and to put a ten-foot tall picture of Jared Loughner in the front of the store with the caption "Walmart sells large amounts of bullets to people like this."

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

I don't think small shops will go under

Jamaica Bay? Is that beyond the reach of the subway? That alone will knock it dead.

Plus no matter what, dollar store shit is cheaper than even Walmart's tripe, and the shopping experience at dollar stores is just nicer. Walmart can be overwhelming and cold

So I think it will do alright, but it won't be the town killing behemoth it is in small areas. This is Brooklyn, after all

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

:yawn: @ the wild anti Walmart brigade.

I know people who work in those mom and pop shops. The majority of them are immigrants who have little to no rights and are in no way being paid a living wage. The idea that these mom and pop shops are some worker's utopia is laughable; if anything they might be WORSE for workers than Walmart. Walmart workers at least have protection through minimum wage, child labor and other laws, and the volume of workers to possibly unionize. Mom & Pop shop workers have none of that, as it's all cash.

And Walmart didn't shoot those people, that crazy kid did. If it were up to ppl like Walkathon, we'd all be in straight jackets and rubber rooms under the caring & all knowing watch of the American government. No thanks, the whole point of America is freedom, even if it comes with some uncertainty and danger

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

I wish a reputable organization would a study on Target's impact on NYC.

...it would detail how much tax money and employment now remains within its borders, as well as its impact on the smaller stores.

Target seems to focus on local shoppers, while Walmart is trying to be a destination.

IKEA is a destination

I once read that Walmart hopes to open smaller, local stores in the city as well. They'll probably pursue that strategy later.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

When I go to Target, I see a lot of good things for the local economy. I see people earning a living, I see a paying tenant in a key piece of real estate, I see people gaining access to relatively affordable goods of some measurable quality. I see a lot of local tax revenue being generated (through the protocols & scrutiny of legal business practices; as opposed to the all-cash operations of the mom and pop shop), yadda yadda. Now is it perfect? Of course not. But if there were no Target, what would those employees' alternative be? Someone has to work retail, and IMO it's better for everyone involved when said retailer is a transparent tax paying law abiding corporation like Target, as opposed to a mom & pop shop, which could be great + fair or a total slum.

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

So far, no one has mentioned in this thread that Walmart wouldn't be able to pay wages and benefits as low as it does if its competition paid more.... Basically, it's villianized for buying a product (in this case labor) for the going rate.

This is why I think placement at Gateway is a good thing. The Starett City, Pink Houses,etc. folks are already being employeed at the 10 or so other large businesses out there, some of which do provide things like health care for their employees. So, Walmart's going to pay less and have worse benefits. Sure it may have less expensive goods, but its also going to get a lower quality of employee, and I think that its going to result in that store being a hot ass mess of ridiculous proportions. Walmart's usual MO is to hire elderly and disabled employees, but really the demographics of that particular neighborhood are such that there aren't a lot of elderly folks so they are much more likely to get the underemployed teens and young adults as staff. Not your normal Walmart staff and not the normal situation. I'm just waiting for some guy from corporate to tell one of those kids that they can't go to the bathroom or have to stand in one spot for four hours without a break.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

Good points.

....yes.

At the moment, NYC has lower unemployment rates than the national average, and (as a result of the competition for employees) the service sector has to strive much harder to fill its ranks with qualified, polite employees in NYC.

If Walmart finds that it is only able to attract the city's most unskilled, it may very well raise its wages in order to provide its customers with a satisfactory shopping experience.

....it's not like the managers at Walmart are somehow more "evil" than those at Lowe's or Target. If those places could pay their employees less and still run good stores, they would. ...they don't pay more, or provide better working conditions out of some "generousity" or "responsibility" to their employees.

Given the "quality" of potential Walmart employees at minimum wage, it will be interesting to see if they can run a store that is as organized and "customer friendly" as their suburban ones. In my view, the Target at Atlantic Center has never managed to get up to the level of its less urban locations:

http://sites.target.com/site/en/spot/state_results.jsp?state=NY

The Atlantic Center Target is often (as homeowner puts it) and as we write frequently on this board: "a hot ass mess of ridiculous proportions".

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
M Train Devotee, G Train Appreciator
Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

If Walmart finds that it is only able to attract the city's most unskilled, it may very well raise its wages in order to provide its customers with a satisfactory shopping experience.

I have trouble stomaching this much benefit of the doubt to Walmart or any other national retail corporation.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

BG, they wouldn't do it to be nice to their customers. They would do it because we wouldn't haul ourselves to Gateway Center if they didn't. You don't have to give them much "benefit of the doubt" to believe that they will want this new store to succeed: They have fought to have it built, and advertised to us for YEARS in preparation.

However, if you are right, and they don't step up to the task at hand:

a. The families with two kids in a minivan that would go to Gateway, will instead continue to haul themselves to a Walmart location just outside of the city, in Valley Stream or Westbury.

http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder_results.do?serviceName=&rx_title=com.wm.www.apps.storelocator.page.serviceLink.title.default&rx_dest=%2Findex.gsp&sfrecords=50&sfsearch_city=&sfsearch_state=--&sfsearch_zip=11238&sftype_sel=-1&sfradius=50&x=16&y=9&continue=

b. The families who travel by bus will will continue to go to various stores that will compete with Walmart, such as the NYC located Costco and Target stores.

Perhaps as a result of having no nearby competition, the Target at Atlantic Center is one of the companies highest grossing stores despite being messy and out of stock when I brave shopping there.

It would be interesting to see if they have raised wages to try and improve the store's performance. ...I have seen some small improvements in the store since it first opened.

However, I'm confident that the store will genuinely improve once some competition comes in the form of the additional "big boxes" that will be created as part of the Atlantic Yards Project.

As Homeowner points out, Walmart won't have this luxury of time ....Gateway has competition already nearby.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
my2cats
getting it
Joined: Oct '07
Posts: 65

For those of you who are so worried about Wal Mart's business practices and are favoring Mom and Pops stores, please look at 2009 for this story:
25 Brooklyn restaurants and cafes owe at least $910,000 in unpaid wages to more than 200 workers.

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/109206/state-labor-dept--finds-park-slope-restaurants-underpaid-workers

Many mom and Pop stores work in cash, cheat the most they can from taxes, and cheat the most they can from their employees. Wal Mart is just as bad, but what is worse?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
M Train Devotee, G Train Appreciator
Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

I would quadruple the number of publicly subsidized community colleges.

YES.

And, like you guys said, trade schools.

Trade Schools.
Trade Schools.
Trade Schools.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
M Train Devotee, G Train Appreciator
Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

Mod note: I split off our new sub-topic of American socio economic issues, as I wanted to keep this thread focused on the issue of specifically Walmart coming to BK/NYC.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

Mod note: I split off our new sub-topic of American socio economic issues, as I wanted to keep this thread focused on the issue of specifically Walmart coming to BK/NYC.

Those interested in such jabbering should join us here:
http://brooklynian.com/forum/brooklyn-politics/american-society-the-poor-the-unemployed/page/2#post-721577

mytwocats »
For those of you who are so worried about Wal Mart's business practices and are favoring Mom and Pops stores, please look at 2009 for this story:
25 Brooklyn restaurants and cafes owe at least $910,000 in unpaid wages to more than 200 workers.

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/109206/state-labor-dept--finds-park-slope-restaurants-underpaid-workers

Many mom and Pop stores work in cash, cheat the most they can from taxes, and cheat the most they can from their employees. Wal Mart is just as bad, but what is worse?

It is a tough call.

But, for the heck of it, let's ignore the fact that Target and all of the other big boxes exist for a moment. In such a situation can an argument be made to support the inefficiencies of the Mom and Pops on something other than wages?

I.E. Many people argue that there is an inherent value in having such little stores nearby, because they allow New York City to remain one of the few places that "does not require one to have a car to easily get all of the crap they need and want"

(I live with such a person)

While I do not think big boxes can be beaten back, would one of the "good reasons" for restricting them be to protect this aspect of our urban quality of life?

I.E. Are we willing to continue to pay more than optimal prices in an attempt to maintain our present conveniences? ...Because I have a luxury of paying "a little more", I actually find this train of thought among the most compelling reasons for shopping locally.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Capt. Planet
Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 930

Interestingly, several of the weatlhiest people in the country have names ending in "walton" as in "Wal" mart.
Does that mean some of that money isn't going back into our community?
Having big box stores means you have to have a car to shop there, or use a car service.
Northern Brooklyn was a finished city before Henry Ford did his thing. Our boro just wasn't built for cars and the more cars we have, the bigger the mess we're getting into.
Two strikes against big boxes.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Yea nobody goes to the Target at Atlantic Center, or the Kmart in Herald Square, etc

Plus where do you think the workers at these stores will spend their money and pay local taxes to?

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

As a result of their distance and relative inconvenience, I do not think I will shop at any of the Walmarts proposed so far (Gateway Center and East NY).

...but I do go to Target, DSW and Old Navy on occasion because they are right on public transportation, and there prices and selection can not be met by anyone in the city, except the internet.

Capt-
As a result of my household's size, I rarely buy anything so large that it needs to be hauled home via car service.

While it gives me a warm fuzzy to shop locally, I think I am completely outside of Walmart's target market. My participation on this thread is an exercise in the supposition of others behavior, and its effect.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

Given this discussion and the one about 99 cents stores on Nostrand Avenue on the CH board, I thought you might find this interesting:
Dollar General vs. Walmart

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Capt. Planet
Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 930

Target I believe is based in Minnesota and Kmart is based in Michigan. 10% of every dollar spent at either of these stores ends up out of state. I on the other hand know the owners of several local stores. If you want something they don't have, just ask them. 100% of the profits roll back into the local economy.
So it gets back to being a personal choice: who would you rather support? Some giant corporate entity who wouldn't know you from Adam, or a neighbor down the street who might shovel the snow on your sidewalk if you're not feeling well?
I spent part of my Xmas holiday in a small town in Michigan, maybe 50,000 people. This little town had one of every big box story known to man, all located on the edges of town, each one a little more depressing than the next. No civic pride, no local ownership, no control over stocking, inventory or pricing.
The downtown was a de-populated shell, dominated by drivers, not pedestrians.
Is that the future we cherish?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
M Train Devotee, G Train Appreciator
Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

Well said.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Target I believe is based in Minnesota and Kmart is based in Michigan. 10% of every dollar spent at either of these stores ends up out of state. I on the other hand know the owners of several local stores. If you want something they don't have, just ask them. 100% of the profits roll back into the local economy.

Lol. How do you know the immigrants running these stores aren't sending a huge percentage of said money out of the country? Not to mention, again, much of their revenue & wages go untaxed.

So it gets back to being a personal choice: who would you rather support? Some giant corporate entity who wouldn't know you from Adam, or a neighbor down the street who might shovel the snow on your sidewalk if you're not feeling well?

Why does it matter? The people working at these evil big box shops are no less members of the communities they serve than people working at local shops. And thus, are no less likely to "shovel your snow if you're not feeling well" (I am unaware that this was a standard metric of a business' standing in a community)

I spent part of my Xmas holiday in a small town in Michigan, maybe 50,000 people. This little town had one of every big box story known to man, all located on the edges of town, each one a little more depressing than the next. No civic pride, no local ownership, no control over stocking, inventory or pricing.

Civic pride is not exclusively a function of how much business is locally owned. And one business owner having control of inventory + pricing doesn't amount to the whole community having control. Ultimately that owner is going to stock what is available + what they think will sell, and price things at what they feel is the best balance between competitiveness and profitability. *GASP* Like an evil big box store!

The downtown was a de-populated shell, dominated by drivers, not pedestrians.

This is more likely a consequence of a poor transit system, or the fact that you were in Michigan around Xmas

Is that the future we cherish?

A tear jerking closing for sure, but you're confusing correlation with causation + using one example to paint a broad picture. Again I'm not saying big box shops are a godsend, but the idea that they're pure evil and local shops are nothing but good for their respective communities is idealistic + untrue

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Capt. Planet
Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 930

Welcome to another Big Gulp of corporate crapola, guys. Hope I don't get sued by 7-11 for copyright enfringement.

Lot a big words here. If the contest is judged on exemplary vocab, you win.

But if ideas are the criteria, I feel you sound sadly like a paid shill for the big box stores. I frankly don't have time to engage in a point-by-point refutation of your arguments. Hopefully the readers can put their thinking caps on and see the gapping holes themselves.

If they can't, there's little hope for civilization, in my opinion.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

While I have stated my preferences throughout this thread, I can't help but contradict myself by pointing out that I attend First Night at the brooklyn museum.

It is sponsored by Target.
As are many of the concerts at the park bandshell.
And I once worked for a school wherein Target donated a percent of the purchase price.

Evil indeed

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
nucomme
rookie newb
Joined: Mar '10
Posts: 49

NYC life is based on location and convenience...I'm from the south where walmart rules, but I have a hard time imagining that people would stop frequenting their local mom and pop stores just to go to Walmart..NYC is not designed that way...

she does the most...

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

Walmart opens its checkbook:

(copied from: nynp.biz)

Goodwill Gets $426K Walmart Grant for “Beyond Jobs”

Goodwill Industries of Greater NY and Northern NJ has received a two-year $426,000 grant from the Walmart Foundation to empower single mothers with all the tools they need to find employment, succeed in the workplace and support their families. Known as Beyond Jobs, the program assists single mothers with job training and placement, but also helps plan for their continued success. Goodwill® works with each woman to create an individualized, holistic plan that outlines how she will gain and retain a job, advance in her career, and ensure long-term financial stability for her family. Beginning March 1st, Beyond Jobs is expected to assist more than 250 single mothers over the next two years. Goodwill will match the grant with $128,000 of funding.

“Finding a steady job is a top-of-mind issue for every unemployed single mother, but the struggle doesn’t end when she finds a job,” said William J. Forrester, President and CEO of Goodwill Industries of Greater NY and Northern NJ. “Goodwill’s Beyond Jobs program helps mothers and families by providing more than a job, giving each woman the full set of tools she needs to support her family today and in the future.”

Twenty-six percent of all children now grow up in families headed by single mothers, many of whom face significant struggles in this brutal economic climate. Single mothers are twice as likely to be unemployed as married women, and during the current economic crisis, the unemployment rate for single mothers has ballooned to 12.3 percent, the highest rate ever recorded.

Each participant in the Beyond Jobs program receives a complete career assessment, individualized career planning, job skills training, and assistance with job placement. Recognizing that landing a job is only one step on the road to success, Beyond Jobs also provides mothers with continued financial education, family strengthening services, early education and child care assistance, and connections to healthy food and nutrition initiatives.

“This grant to Goodwill Industries of Greater NY and Northern NJ will support single mothers in New York City by assuring they have access to gaining the necessary skills for today’s jobs,” said Margaret McKenna, President of the Walmart Foundation. “We are pleased to support this project because it gives single mothers the opportunity to continue to play a vital role in the workforce while providing for themselves and their families.”

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

Walmart opens its checkbook again (there is no way this money is free):

Walmart Pledges $5 Million to SYEP

The Walmart Foundation has announced a $5 million pledge to support New York City’s Summer Youth Employment Program (SYEP). The contribution will expand the program, which has been cut almost in half over the past two years, by up to 3,400 jobs helping to offset governmental funding reductions. The Walmart donation was announced by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Department of Youth and Community Development Commissioner Jeanne Mullgrav and Senior Director for the Walmart Foundation Michelle Gilliard.

“Walmart’s generous donation creates the most job slots the Summer Youth Employment Program has ever raised with private money,” said Mayor Bloomberg. ”This timely investment in our city’s youth comes at a moment when many young people are struggling to find employment and will give thousands the opportunity to take that critical first step toward their career goals.”

“A summer job prepares a young person for a working life,” said Commissioner Mullgrav. “In the short term, these jobs mean extra money for tuition, books and household expenses. But in the long term, this experience in the world of work is the first open door to a lasting career. I want to thank Walmart for investing in our young people and the future of our city.”

“For years, the Walmart Foundation has supported programs that strive to make a difference in the lives of New Yorkers,” said Senior Director for the Walmart Foundation Michelle Gilliard. “The City’s Summer Youth Employment Program is an initiative that’s obviously important to kids and families across the five boroughs, especially during these tough times. We’ve talked a lot about jobs and this donation was an opportunity to deliver during a time of real need.”

SYEP has shrunk dramatically in recent years due to cuts in government funding. Using only public dollars, the City have been able to provide about 24,000 summer youth jobs this year. With the Walmart Foundation’s commitment, and with donations from more than 30 other companies, the City has been able to increase the number of summer youth jobs to more than 28,000 jobs.

However, this year’s program – even with the help of private contributions – is significantly smaller than last year when 35,000 young people took part in the SYEP program and little more than half the size in 2009 when 52,000 young people were provided with summer jobs. This year, the Department of Youth and Community Development received 131,000 applications from residents in every corner of the City.

The Mayor was joined at the Brownsville Recreation Center in Brooklyn by Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz, City Council Minority Leader James Oddo, Council Member Peter Koo and Council Member Eric Ulrich.

Source: New York Nonprofit Press

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Capt. Planet said:
Welcome to another Big Gulp of corporate crapola, guys. Hope I don't get sued by 7-11 for copyright enfringement.

Lot a big words here. If the contest is judged on exemplary vocab, you win.

But if ideas are the criteria, I feel you sound sadly like a paid shill for the big box stores. I frankly don't have time to engage in a point-by-point refutation of your arguments. Hopefully the readers can put their thinking caps on and see the gapping holes themselves.

If they can't, there's little hope for civilization, in my opinion.

There's nothing to refute :rolleyes:

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 1 yr ago
Idlewild
rocking it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 2,795

nucomme said:
NYC life is based on location and convenience...I'm from the south where walmart rules, but I have a hard time imagining that people would stop frequenting their local mom and pop stores just to go to Walmart..NYC is not designed that way...

Fairway seems to be successful. As is Home Depot, Lowes and McD's. My guess is WalMart will wipe out most of the bodegas and some supermarkets within a mile radius because of the perceived selection and savings.

"Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!

# Posted 1 yr ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Idlewild said:
Fairway seems to be successful. As is Home Depot, Lowes and McD's. My guess is WalMart will wipe out most of the bodegas and some supermarkets within a mile radius because of the perceived selection and savings.

I don't know if this is true either.

NYers are very convenience biased. A Thai restaurant by me just opened a second branch about 3 blocks closer to me. I'm excited! It's gone from being a "special occasions" place to a definite go-to.

NYers will only go to Walmart for things they can't get locally, or for things that are cheaper. I don't think bodegas are going anywhere. Walmart doesn't carry Phillies

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,113

Less than half of the households in NYC have a car to drive to Walmart.

Target thrives, in part because it built its stores at transit hubs.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
Idlewild
rocking it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 2,795

whynot_31 said:
Less than half of the households in NYC have a car to drive to Walmart.

Target thrives, in part because it built its stores at transit hubs.

True. But this Walmart is being built by the Belt Parkway. If you look at the neighborhoods the Belt wraps around the ratio of car ownership is pretty high. Not too much efficient or even existing public transportation going on between Kings Plaza (and parts of Sheepshead Bay) and Laurelton. I don't believe Walmart will be king of the hill because of this. But certainly they should do as well as the Home Depot,Target and other alike conglomerates around there.

And doesn't the Target in Ft Greene also thrive because it's in the middle of some pretty easy to reach neighborhoods, as well as a huge parking lot and relatively easy street parking?

"Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!

# Posted 1 yr ago