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If you weren't there you missed out on a great night. There was some basketball being played, some hip hop music at reasonable volumes, and two people shot on the east end of the park. Yep, 2 people. I never would have expected that especially after the drive by shooting on Park Place and Troy two weeks ago (right in front of a marked police car) that was part of an ongoing fued involving stabbings, shootings and pistol whippings around the Albany Projects and St. Johns/Schenectady. Enjoy the rest of the summer and have fun at the parade in two weeks! mod edit: fixed spelling in thread title
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It was indeed a beautiful day in the park. Unfortunately, it ended in a shooting. I squarely blame the police for this one. First off, let me state that it is pretty much a given that now days, there is bound to be some trouble when you have a large group of people, some of whom will be drunk. I live not far from the park. All summer the police have been randomly coming though the park to clear it about 10 - 10:30 pm. Very inconsistent. Saturday, there was an unusually large number of people on the east end park due to the DJ who was set up. I have during this summer, observed the police citing people for playing radios in the park. Why they didn't shut down the D.J. is in question. Maybe they were letting the people enjoy the saturday, thank you. But what happened to the 10PM clearout? These shootings occured well after 10:30. The police shut have shut it down by 10, especially with the large number of people. There were maybe 300 or more on the east end. After the first round of shots were fired, I spoke to at least a dozen neighbors who said they called the cops, repeatedly. They did not show up until maybe 8-10 minutes after. There were at least 30-40 shots fired. I've lived here all my life and this was the worst incident I have witnessed. Well, aside the time that kid got shot point blank in the playground. I saw that and lost all faith with the police on that day. Several people informed the police where the killer was holed up and they did nothing. I helplessly watching leave the building 10 hours later and walk to the train. The cops could have prevented this tonight had they been consistent. I mean anybody with common sense would have known there was gonna be trouble after the cops let them fools drink in the park all day long. The one thing that struck me really odd was when 4 ambulances arrived in convoy. From what I know, I female hit in foot, 1 male hit in groin, 1 male head graze. However, the crime scene was still up at 2 AM, so there may be a life threatening injury.
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Oh man, I know the kids who play basket ball in the park. As a matter of fact, I was invited. This is terrible, but is it surprising? No.
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I don't blame the cops. I blame the jerks with the guns. The same jerks who opted to get drunk and hang out in a public park all night. We need the COPS to tell us that maybe we should shut it down at a reasonable hour, go home - or somewhere else, like a nightclub - and not shoot at each other? The COPS let those jerks drink all night long, huh? Did the COPS buy the liquor, too? That's one of our problems - we're blaming everyone but ourselves for the crap that goes down. The cops are supposed to be the enemy but guess what - we're shooting at EACH OTHER.
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There are simply not enough cops in the 77. There are routinely 4 cars on the street between 3pm and 12 midnight. If you noticed a bunch of cars running around CH that say "BNTF" that is Brooklyn North Task Force. They have been sent in to help. At the time of that shooting there were 2 cars on the street. How about blaming the Parks Dept.? The Parks Dept. has it's own enforcement officers who should be involved in the alcohol consumption problem and the late night music problem. Parks should also be held responsible for enforcing the closing time of the park. The Parks Dept. actually issues permits to these events and then provided no manpower. There were no life threating injuries. The crime scene was still up at 2am because it takes that long for the evidence collection people to show up and process the scene. I guess the cops should just kick the shell casings down the sewer instead of messing up traffic. I would also not be suprised if the ambulances staged a few blocks away and waited for the police to get there. EMS ended up with a bullet hole in and ambulance from the incident on Albany and Park. I don't think they want to get a gun pointed in their faces anymore.And that's the way it is.
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There was a big basketball tournament there Saturday afternoon. Mobs of people. I was there both Saturday and Sunday playing with the kids, I didn't see any trouble. But then there are signs that say the park closes at dusk, silly me, I didn't realize all the "fun" happens later on and headed home between six and seven. As far as blaming the cops for the shooting... Hmm. Yes, I agree that the park should be cleared out at a reasonable time. But I don't believe that the shooting is therefore the cops' "fault". People shouldn't be shooting each other. Period. Whether the police make them leave the park when they are supposed to leave there or not. 8 to 10 minutes seems a bit excessive on the response time, but not overly so. Especially taking into consideration that it might not have been exactly that long from call to roll up. Bullets into ambulances is pretty low. And it sounds like the 77th needs more manpower to get the job done. How does that happen? I suppose we could start with figuring out how to hire more cops. One way to help that would be to expand the salaries so they would at least be in the same BALLPARK as surrounding communities. In my opinion."It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
I saw cops showing their presence in Brower Park on Sunday. They are trying. And let's put the blame where it really belongs: to the shooter. In my opinion, higher salary for new cops is a must. Also, NYPD very frequently has this anti-terror exercises down on Wall Streets, and I always see 77 rmps there. While terror is a real threat I honestly preferred the cops to be assigned to their respective precincts, especially if there are not enough men there to start with.
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Of course the cops cannot be blamed for the actions of another, but they can be held accountable for their lack of presence and policing, according to the policies they have set them selves to prevent such occurances. Had they been on their job, this would not have happened, as the shooters would not have had the opportunity nor environment to shoot.
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Anonymous » Of course the cops cannot be blamed for the actions of another, but they can be held accountable for their lack of presence and policing, according to the policies they have set them selves to prevent such occurances. Had they been on their job, this would not have happened, as the shooters would not have had the opportunity nor environment to shoot.
And if there were a 24hr curfew all we would have to worry about would be domestic violence. And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their ass so much when they hop. *shrug* I have no crystal ball, but I suspect that they WERE on their job, just somewhere else doing something else. It really sounds like a lack of manpower situation to me, which has to be addressed at a higher level than the street cops or the 77th, which has little control over that. What policies were they in violation of? Do they have a policy to be at the park whenever there is a bunch of people there? Did someone call them an hour before, say 9pm, and say "Hey, there are a bunch of drunk people in the park after closing." And who is to say there was any need to call them? Was everyone getting along prior to the shooting? Who would be here complaining that the cops busted up a bunch of peaceful folks celebrating basketball if there had been no shooting? Seeing the correct action isn't always as hard in hindsight. I'm not Mr. Rah Rah Cops or anything, but I'm having a lot of trouble faulting them on this one. How about rather than concentrating on having the cops break it up any time a bunch of people get together and how to stop them from getting together, we concentrate on the reasons people are shooting each other and how to stop them from doing _that_? 2cents..."It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
My experience is that shooters don't give a damn about police policies. If they did, they wouldn't be carrying guns in the first place. Should the police have made it a priority to clear the park out? Absolutely. However, if they had shown up with a hundred cops and started forcing people out of the park, someone would be here complaining about their tactics and the "police state". Clearly, the kids who are shooting off guns these days dont give a damn. (See the post above about the drive by IN FRONT OF A POLICE CAR). The people that are committing these crimes don't care. They don't think they'll get caught and aren't afraid of what will happen when they do. While I think a greater police presence is a wonderful thing in our neighborhood, I also think that we need to figure out a way to stop 16-26 year old men from asserting their manhood with a pistol. Mad at your baby's momma? Grab a gun. Got beef with the guy down the street? Grab a gun. Got shorted on the corner? Grab a gun. Its stupid and senseless.
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The Police Dept is down over 5000 cops since 2001. Of the remaining 35000 cops are Sgts Lts Captains and above. Theres a large # of cops who are sick or are on limited duty status and some are modified which means they have no Gun nor shield. The 77 pct is only one of the 70 some odd pcts that is experiencing a manpower shortage. The target goal for the last Police Academy class was estimated at 1600 of which they were able to fill 800 spots. The first week of the Academy 100 recruits resigned. With mass retirements expected in the next few years, you do the math. Unfortunately theres going to be alot more Brower Park incidents. The Police can't be everywhere and until this crisis hits epidemic proportions, the decent people of the city will, if not already feel the impact.
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daver » [quote="Anonymous"]Of course the cops cannot be blamed for the actions of another, but they can be held accountable for their lack of presence and policing, according to the policies they have set them selves to prevent such occurances. Had they been on their job, this would not have happened, as the shooters would not have had the opportunity nor environment to shoot.
And if there were a 24hr curfew all we would have to worry about would be domestic violence. And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their ass so much when they hop. *shrug* I have no crystal ball, but I suspect that they WERE on their job, just somewhere else doing something else. It really sounds like a lack of manpower situation to me, which has to be addressed at a higher level than the street cops or the 77th, which has little control over that.[/quote] It sounds like a lack of manpower, so let's leave it at that, but I suspect other reasons. What policies were they in violation of? Do they have a policy to be at the park whenever there is a bunch of people there? Did someone call them an hour before, say 9pm, and say "Hey, there are a bunch of drunk people in the park after closing." And who is to say there was any need to call them? Let's evaluate the policies that they could have been in 'violation' of. According to <http>Prohibited Uses: Marijuana; Controlled Substances Regulated Uses: Assemblies, Meetings, Exhibitions Noise; Musical Instruments; Sound Reproduction Devices Alcoholic Beverages
From further information I gathered the event in question was a 'MySpace' party. I do not know if the organizers had the proper permits for sound and congregation. If they did have permits, I believe the cutoff time is 10 PM. Why was that not enforced, I ask?Was everyone getting along prior to the shooting? Who would be here complaining that the cops busted up a bunch of peaceful folks celebrating basketball if there had been no shooting? Seeing the correct action isn't always as hard in hindsight. I'm not Mr. Rah Rah Cops or anything, but I'm having a lot of trouble faulting them on this one. How about rather than concentrating on having the cops break it up any time a bunch of people get together and how to stop them from getting together, we concentrate on the reasons people are shooting each other and how to stop them from doing _that_? 2cents...
Let make this point clear again. The shootings happened on the east side of the park. The tournament was on the west side. The tournament had been shut down long before. I also have been living across from the park since 1975. I used to be the one who played music on the BCM in the late 70s-80s till 1 -2 am, with no problems complaints or misery, at all. Those were the good old days. I can say with some wisdom from observing the park in all of that time. From this experience, and other personal experience in large crown control, I will say it again. Had the police been on point, no one would have gotten hurt. Point Blank. If it was such a manpower issue, why are there 3 cops stationed in the park right now. Why has the park been on a quasi 24/7 lock down since? The reasons why people are shooting people is that they have guns. I personally know someone who was busted maybe 5 years ago with the same gun, twice. I remember in the mid 80s when guns and drugs could be purchased from the dirty dozen. How do you stop people from shooting people, there are only 2 ways, take all the guns away, or give one to everyone. Why don't people mess with the Swiss? Every male in that country is required to own a gun. WHo wants to mess with a country like that? How much crime do they have? Lets look at counties in the US that have similar standings on guns and look at thier statistics. The powers that be dont want the guns to go way, they make too much money. Aside from the initial sales of the tools, there is the residual income that comes from crimes commited with guns. medial, Legal and Penal. Billions of dollars. What percentage of the world popluation is the US? Do we have that many people that we hold 25% of the worlds prison population? You do the math. Yes it is my brothers and sisters that are pulling the triggers on each other, but the forces that drive us to this are much bigger than you or I. It is up to all of us to reach that level of conciousness to realize what is really going on. All of us are under attack, black, white, brown, yellow, green, blue... Pitted against each other. Things are happening to you right now that you aren't even aware of. Let me give you a heads up. Look up into the sky. Do you see anything funny? Does the sky look like it did when you were a child, nice deep blue on a nice sunny day like today? Tell me the name of the clouds that are in the upper atmosphere? Explain to me that sticky yellow substance you may find on your car, that you pass off as tree sap or something, but your car isn't under a tree. We are being played and 99% of you dont even know it. You newbies to the hood just don't have clue as to how it really goes down in these streets. Wake Up and study the real issues. -
Anonymous » Why don't people mess with the Swiss? Every male in that country is required to own a gun. WHo wants to mess with a country like that? How much crime do they have?
There was a report about a week ago on npr talking about the problems that have resulted from every Swiss man having a gun. Seems that they sometimes turn their guns on wives and children during domestic disputes.Anonymous » Explain to me that sticky yellow substance you may find on your car...
Public urination? or do you mean diesel exhaust? hmmm...confused. -
Anonymous » Explain to me that sticky yellow substance you may find on your car...
Public urination? or do you mean diesel exhaust? hmmm...confused.[/quote] Don't we wish it were that simple. http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=21473 It is much deeper than this article points out, but I don't think you peeps are really ready for whats going on. If I went into it, you would label me a nutcase and I would probably climb higher on those gvmnt watchlists I'm on. If you are, all the information is on the web. You just have to look and have an open mind. Everything you believe to be true is a lie... -
Sounds like it's time to put on the tinfoil hat
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ -
i see your tin foil hat and raise you tin foil underwear: http://achewood.com/index.php?date=05192006Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
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We're living in dangerous times, sweet tea. Better to err on the side of caution:
Nowhere to put the ketchup though, alas. 
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What exactly does this have to do with the original post? The shooting, btw, was between a group of local and out-of-town kids and in no way premeditated. Just some fighting and then some shooting, but what else was to be expected, really? A lot of police presence now in Brower Park even during the day.
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Athenee » The shooting, btw, was between a group of local and out-of-town kids and in no way premeditated. Just some fighting and then some shooting, but what else was to be expected, really?
um....i'm going to go out on a limb and say NOT shooting each other? the use of "just" here is a-mazing.Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit -
"um....i'm going to go out on a limb and say NOT shooting each other? the use of "just" here is a-mazing." Yeah, well, not if you're talking about some kids that have access to guns and are stupid enough to put their lives on the line to prove their "manhood'. Some of those kids are great, but in general there is a lack of social skills and often not enough adult role models to show them the limitations of ghetto culture.
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And as this conversation goes on, my husband had to leave Brower Park running earlier this evening (mon., aug. 27th and it isn't even dark yet) since someone somewhere were shooting off a gun like he/she was in a shooting range... Something is definitely up; it hasn't been like this for a long time. Now I hear gun shot every other day/night.
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it's obvious that a lot of shit needs to change: 1. the city needs to pay new cops more $$. there's no fucking way I could live in this city for $25k or whatever that absurd starting salary is, so it's hard for me to be bitchy that other folks won't live on it. and does that make me a middle/upper class snob? probably. but shit, people need salaries that work in the real world. 2. we need a greater police presence. we need folks to feel safe in their neighborhoods. 3. as homeowner said, we need to figure out a way to teach young men (primarily) to express themselves in ways that don't involve shooting AT each other (and then missing and killing/hurting people who aren't part of their beef). 4. we need to get guns off the streets. who the HELL needs a gun in nyc? do we hunt in brower park? when I lived in texas, plenty of folks in the work place would share fresh venison, which they shot with a rifle, or grandma's venison sausage. are people really thinking they need a pistol to hunt in a city that doesn't really have wild animal issue beyond rats? it's bullshit and the mayor is right - I'm so annoyed by illegal guns in the city. this all seems so obvious, I can't believe our anon contributors are being so dense about it.like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote
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The anon contributors are probably adolescent boys. Not a demographic that is likely to be very civic-minded.
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Well i just finished watching channel 7 news, and it appears a 12 year old girl was shot on Kingston ave.
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Another day, another shooting. It's amazing that the homocide number is still 10.And that's the way it is.
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