Confessions of a Black Gentrifier « Brooklynian

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Confessions of a Black Gentrifier

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whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

So true, nearnostrand.

While I admire and appreciate the efforts of those who work to eliminate the effects of racism and classism in our society, I often wonder if they have an understanding of "epistemology", "knowledge organization", and "reductionism" as these terms are used by folks in the fields of philosophy, sociology, psychology and library sciences.

When one understands these concepts, the challenge become even more complex:

The macro goal is not to have people actually get rid of their stereotypes and prejudice, but to have them examine and control them in a way that they do not inflict harm on themselves and others.

The expression "check yourself before your wreck yourself" comes to mind.

I can't imagine that the effects of "engaging in too much reductionism" are a lot different for someone based on their economic power, social class or skin color. As a result, I have a hard time cutting anyone slack.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

Your flawed logic let me show you it. With my edits in italics to make it clearer.

I see an obvious issue with the second statement, but not the first, if it is changed to ~~"poor inner city people"~~black people. For the thousandth time, most ~~inner city people~~ black people are not bad people or criminals or whatever. But there is a correlation between ~~poverty~~blacks & crime, as well as between certain behaviors deemed as unacceptable outside the ~~inner city~~black population that are associated with the ~~inner city and the people from them~~ the blacks and their culture. In the case of the article about Detroit, said behaviors included the disrespecting of property, noise pollution, excessive trash, etc. etc... these were direct behaviors exhibited by the ~~inner city folks~~black folks in question. Not ALL the ~~inner city folks~~ black folks, but by SOME ~~inner city folks~~ black folks(and NO ~~"original " suburban folks~~ white folks, as the behavior was not there before ~~inner city folks~~ blacks started moving in). If it were possible to separate the offenders from the majority of the new people who mind their business I'm sure the complaints would be more directed- but without keeping tabs on each and every new person it's impossible to make that distinction.

This is why your privilege is called a blindspot. Its so normal and embedded you cant even imagine anything different. It doesnt make you a bad person if you have privilege (whether its white privilege, class, gender, hetero, religious,able-bodied etc etc) -what distinguishes you is how you use it. Do you use your privilege to excuse the systems, power structures and individuals within those systems that disenfranchise those without that privilege? Or are you going to use your privilege and be an ally of those being marginalized?

I havent been able to meaningfully determine what ways I can ally with those being squeezed out by gentrification (beyond the work I already do). Saying "oh well landlords will raise their rents its the American way" and "I have to take care of mine" doesnt help the situation. I had hoped for a conversation- given that in some ways I found some of my experiences echoed in the Washington DC piece. Clearly, the media narrative of gentrification affects the way in which people think there is a problem and secondly estimations of whether its solvable. This media narrative has also shaped the conversation here.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
mr. met
rocking it
Joined: Dec '07
Posts: 1,407

This is why your privilege is called a blindspot. Its so normal and embedded you cant even imagine anything different. It doesnt make you a bad person if you have privilege (whether its white privilege, class, gender, hetero, religious,able-bodied etc etc) -what distinguishes you is how you use it. Do you use your privilege to excuse the systems, power structures and individuals within those systems that disenfranchise those without that privilege? Or are you going to use your privilege and be an ally of those being marginalized?

some words that come to mind when i read this: pretentious, arrogant, know-it-all, douche.

it must feel good to think that you know so much about the world you live in. preach!

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

trumystic » I had hoped for a conversation- given that in some ways I found some of my experiences echoed in the Washington DC piece.

trumystic-
I'm not going to call you names, or assume that you believe you know it all.

However, I think most people on this thread have been having a very genuine conversation with you. ...but this conversation now seems to be going in a downward direction.

Can we stay at a level where we are using our intellect?

I'd love for you to respond to my post above:

whynot » While I admire and appreciate the efforts of those who work to eliminate the effects of racism and classism in our society, I often wonder if they have an understanding of "epistemology", "knowledge organization", and "reductionism" as these terms are used by folks in the fields of philosophy, sociology, psychology and library sciences.

When one understands these concepts, the challenge become even more complex:

The macro goal is not to have people actually get rid of their stereotypes and prejudice, but to have them examine and control them in a way that they do not inflict harm on themselves and others.

The expression "check yourself before your wreck yourself" comes to mind.

I can't imagine that the effects of "engaging in too much reductionism" are a lot different for someone based on their economic power, social class or skin color. As a result, I have a hard time cutting anyone slack.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Trumystic said:
Your flawed logic let me show you it. With my edits in italics to make it clearer.

I see an obvious issue with the second statement, but not the first, if it is changed to ~~"poor inner city people"~~black people. For the thousandth time, most ~~inner city people~~ black people are not bad people or criminals or whatever. But there is a correlation between ~~poverty~~blacks & crime, as well as between certain behaviors deemed as unacceptable outside the ~~inner city~~black population that are associated with the ~~inner city and the people from them~~ the blacks and their culture. In the case of the article about Detroit, said behaviors included the disrespecting of property, noise pollution, excessive trash, etc. etc... these were direct behaviors exhibited by the ~~inner city folks~~black folks in question. Not ALL the ~~inner city folks~~ black folks, but by SOME ~~inner city folks~~ black folks(and NO ~~"original " suburban folks~~ white folks, as the behavior was not there before ~~inner city folks~~ blacks started moving in). If it were possible to separate the offenders from the majority of the new people who mind their business I'm sure the complaints would be more directed- but without keeping tabs on each and every new person it's impossible to make that distinction.

This is why your privilege is called a blindspot. Its so normal and embedded you cant even imagine anything different. It doesnt make you a bad person if you have privilege (whether its white privilege, class, gender, hetero, religious,able-bodied etc etc) -what distinguishes you is how you use it. Do you use your privilege to excuse the systems, power structures and individuals within those systems that disenfranchise those without that privilege? Or are you going to use your privilege and be an ally of those being marginalized?

I'm just gonna take a step back here and ask what exactly you're trying to say here. What is my priviledge and how have I used it? And how is it a black/white issue when in the article a black police chief was complaining about other black people? It's an issue of socioeconomic background, not race. If you feel it is unfair to make sweeping statements about groups then say that. But again, I've been careful w/every statement I've made to be as clear as possible.

I havent been able to meaningfully determine what ways I can ally with those being squeezed out by gentrification (beyond the work I already do). Saying "oh well landlords will raise their rents its the American way" and "I have to take care of mine" doesnt help the situation.

Neither does marginalizing or putting words in the mouths of those in the conversation who don't necessarily share your views.

I had hoped for a conversation- given that in some ways I found some of my experiences echoed in the Washington DC piece. Clearly, the media narrative of gentrification affects the way in which people think there is a problem and secondly estimations of whether its solvable. This media narrative has also shaped the conversation here.

No, "clearly" other people see the issue of gentrification through other lenses than you do, and for whatever reason you cannot reconcile that simple concept. You continue to misread + take what people say out of context & be indignant when called on it. I've been here before, not eager to go down that road again... you're right, it's a matter of privilege, it's a conspiracy, anyone who doesn't fully support the displaced (not those who have been displaced and are moving into neighborhoods, the "real" displaced folks) is complicit... I'm done

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

Trumystic,

You seem have alienated both CTK and Mr. Met from your coalition to address racism and classism. In my view, that's unfortunate.... I have a sense didn't take the time or put in the effort to get to know them.

Are you sure this is a good medium?

Are you sure you are going about this task in an effective way in real life, and not perceived in a similar manner?

I look forward to you responding to my "epistemology", "knowledge organization", and "reductionism" post, as I am also considering writing you off.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

My answer to Mr Met: thank you for telling me how you really feel.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

I'm just gonna take a step back here and ask what exactly you're trying to say here. What is my priviledge and how have I used it? And how is it a black/white issue when in the article a black police chief was complaining about other black people? It's an issue of socioeconomic background, not race. If you feel it is unfair to make sweeping statements about groups then say that. But again, I've been careful w/every statement I've made to be as clear as possible.

Cool the Kid, I have repeatedly said its unfair to make sweeping generalizations. I have repeatedly said what I hear you saying and asked for clarification of what I understood. I am saying that it sounds to me like you are being an apologist for those who make statements like "I dont want to live near low income/inner city people". You very eloquently gave examples of how it would be reasonable for someone to be justified in making this statement. It's clear from all your posts that you would never make apologies for someone who would say "I dont want to live near black people". In my posts, I have been saying that this (referring to black on black
gentrification articles: DC, Atlanta articles) is about classism. You have said its about class too. We both agree its about class. But I am additionally asking you why you are making excuses for something you acknowledge in one situation is problematic (those who say "I dont want to live near blacks") and in other situation is a pretty logical conclusion given stats(those who say "I dont want live near inner city people")? What I did is take your words and then erasing the class related terms for ones linked to race. Why? To see if the argument or logical conclusion is still sound. If you think it is, then at least you are consistent.

You have acknowledged that it is a subset of a subset of
poor inner city people that create the tension and that many react to negatively. But that stance makes a difference in terms of how you talk about gentrification. Someone who thinks that its all poor people who cause the problems is very different from someone who thinks its a minority of poor people causing the problem. The person who thinks all poor people are causing the problem ( lets call him Bloomer) might just say "Gentrifications good- lets clear the city of them". The person who says the minority of poor people causing the problem might feel (call her Flower) more ambivalent about the process and might be more open to dialogue. Flower might not be so apt to think gentrification is a totally positive and benign process. I can work with Flower but not with Bloomer. But I might be more conflicted with working with her if she made apologies for Bloomer's behavior and statements.

Neither does marginalizing or putting words in the mouths of those in the conversation who don't necessarily share your views.

How did I put words in your mouth? How did I marginalize you? How have I been any more or less indignant than you?

Finally the privilege comment could have been re-written for clarity. I can rewrite if asked. Long story short: if you are a gentrifier then how do you use that privilege...

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,408

Trumystic, what about someone who has absolutely no objection to living with a large number of middle-class, college-educated black people as his neighbors, but who does not want to live anywhere near large numbers of unemployed, uneducated people, regardless of whether they be black or white?

Does that person offend you?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

Booklaw, yes that person would morally offend me even though I would fall into the class of "acceptable" people. If the person said they did not want to live anywhere near large numbers of unemployed that might be less offensive. But I think that just because you are uneducated doesnt mean you will be a bad neighbor.

Is economic diversity of neighborhoods a good?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

Trumystic-
How about you provide answers to the questions you have already been asked by me first?

Then (those of us who are left on this thread....) will answer yours, and you can decide whether we adequately appreciate mixed income neighborhoods. We can talk all about Jane Jacobs, 80/20 housing, rent control, NYCHA, Mitchell Lama, work training programs, SSI/SSD, public assistance, Section 8, Working Families Party, FUREE, etc.

It'll be fun.

By doing it this way, it will be more of a conversation with you, and not a lecture from you.

It may even prevent readers from concluding that you have reached conclusions about "how we view others".

Remember, so far no one has disagreed with anything you have said regarding the negative effects of class and race prejudices.

We've just wondered how you have determined our logic is flawed, because -in our perception- you know very little about us.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Again here's my point

Someone who thinks that its all poor people who cause the problems is very different from someone who thinks its a minority of poor people causing the problem.

Obviously

But nobody here is in the first group

If those problematic individuals are always mixed in with groups of poor people, I don't see how it's unfair to avoid the whole group in order to not encounter those people who are usually mixed in with them. It's like if a warning goes out that some ground beef went out w/E coli... one could invest a ton of $$$ and effort to clean the meat or test + sort it out from the good meat, but as a consumer I would rather just avoid it unless I had no other choice.

The person who thinks all poor people are causing the problem ( lets call him Bloomer) might just say "Gentrifications good- lets clear the city of them". The person who says the minority of poor people causing the problem might feel (call her Flower) more ambivalent about the process and might be more open to dialogue. Flower might not be so apt to think gentrification is a totally positive and benign process. I can work with Flower but not with Bloomer. But I might be more conflicted with working with her if she made apologies for Bloomer's behavior and statements.
Again nobody here has said that neither explicitly nor implicitly so I don't even know why you feel this is a point that has to be made

I feel like I have said the same thing 10 times, I will say it again succinctly

Not wanting to live near inner cities or inner city people is not an indictment of all the people from the inner city, just the few responsible for the unique crime and quality of life issues within them

If you want to question the validity of such a generalization, fine, but there are plenty of statistics & anecdotes that show that people like the crackhead who stole my bike or the rowdy kids who threatened my girlfriend or the dude w/the loud car stereo who would park on our block at 11PM and shake our apartment for 30 mins are people that are unique to low income areas. I never saw any of these kinds of people in Greenpoint. I rarely saw these kinds of people just three blocks west. I didn't see these kinds of people when I lived in Astoria. But I did see these kinds of people when I did work down in the project in Coney Island. I did see these kinds of people when I was dating that girl in Southside Projects in Queens. I did see these kinds of people in Lefrak City. And there are stats out to back up my observations. So again those particular types of people are not representative of low income areas, but they are there and generally nowhere else. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

Whynot,I havent insulted anyone or called them a racist or classist. I have tried to make a distinction between a classist assumptions which are different than classist statements which are different than classist reactions/behavior and classist people. Ditto for racism.

In terms of alienation its interesting that you say you care. I have been called a race-baiter, arrogant and some other negative terms on this thread (including by you)and it didnt come across to me that you cared about my alienation. But, I digress. I dont pretend that I know you CTK, Mr Met or that you know me from a message board. And I didnt think I had a coalition about anything with them because I was not sure whether we had any common ground. What am I doing? Just chatting on a message board. Sometimes people get to understand where someone else is coming from and sometimes they dont.

The macro goal is not to have people actually get rid of their stereotypes and prejudice, but to have them examine and control them in a way that they do not inflict harm on themselves and others.

The expression "check yourself before your wreck yourself" comes to mind.

I am only familiar with some of the terms you mentioned. Anyway, I think some people have a goal to rid all people of all of their stereotypes and prejudices. I am not sure that is possible. However I think it is possible to reduce prejudice and mitigate prejudice. However, I think the first step is seeing if the stereotypes/prejudices are present (diagnosis) and then secondly if they can be mitigated. To understand that you need to ask a person what they believe to be true or of value. Then you might point out if what they believe to be true might be considered a stereotype/prejudice ( plus they have to agree). Then you would have to ask this person about the ramifications of the stereotype/prejudice (negative or positive or neutral). Then you would have to ask the person if this stereotype or prejudice they would want to work on. Finally, would be a process of how to mitigate the -"isms" effect on their thoughts, words and behavior. Sometimes in the process and analysis (checking themselves as you say)the person will have less prejudice or at least help them not act in a way that furthers or reinforces that prejudice. Someone close to me calls this process examining your blindspots. Thats on the individual front but you could also conduct the same analysis of systems or policies.

So yes very complex and tiring. Because you need to circle back from values to actions and can lose someone along the way when the say "Fuck you,you filthy thought police, politically correct guilt ridden liberal" or what have you. And you would have to check for the intersection of multiple -isms too ( which someone recently coined a term "kyriarchy") which makes it even more complex. I "check myself" all the time which is how I have discovered some of my worst blindspots -which I have to actively work on all the time. Incidentally, most people usually cant see if they have made a wreck of themselves- it usually takes someone else to point it out to them.

And yes I think this process can be conducted on the internets and even fruitfully. As it can in person.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

In my view, your attempts to conduct this discussion on the internet have failed miserably.

You have already offended several regular readers.

...I hope you take the time to read about the terms I discuss above. The terms have very specific meanings within the fields I mention.

The terms are used in antiracism and classism workshops such as this. Professional therapists and social workers discuss these issues a lot, and you could attend this workshop thru NASW to learn about the terms.

Google might do the trick, but the concepts are pretty complex. They are almost as complex as the manner in which people understand and reacted to concepts such as "race and class". I ask you to do this because, I think it is important that you understand how the mind organizes information, and most of the terms I use above pertain to that issue.

As you point out, if you do not understand what benefit people obtain from engaging in stereotypes, you will be unable to help them change their thought processes and actions.

trumystic »
I didnt think I had a coalition about anything with them because I was not sure whether we had any common ground.

How one goes about determining whether one has common ground with someone else is important. On this thread people seem to have perceived your method as being one which looks for things you DO NOT have in common, as opposed to things you DO have in common.

As a result, they perceive you as stating that you care about racism and classism, yet quickly concluding that they do not.

This is like going into a room and "looking for an enemy". ....whenever people do that, and they can't find one, they often end up with one anyway ....because they made one.

Most enemies are made, not found.

While I continue to believe you are attempting to exceed the abilities of this medium, if you are going to talk about issues of this intensity here, you should assume the reader mostly agrees with you and is as thoughtful about race and class as you are.

You should be ready for people to misunderstand you, in the same way that you have repeatedly misunderstood them.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,408

Trumystic, you've convinced me. So long as I get to choose which uneducated or unemployed folks (without regard to color) are to be allowed to move onto my block, after carefully vetting their personal histories, behavior and values, I will not worry about their presence or seek to exclude them.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,408

For what it's worth, I would hope to exercise the same privilege to exclude rich white bankers and other country-club types. Economic diversity has its limits, after all!

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Anyway, I think some people have a goal to rid all people of all of their stereotypes and prejudices.

Is this a conclusion you've made about anyone here based on what anyone has posted? How does wanting to avoid groups that have been shown to contain elements that are dangerous equate to wanting to get rid of them? This is what I meant by putting words in people's mouths, albeit in a roundabout way

And I think it's pretty easy to come up with instances or scenarios in which stereotyping is appropriate; to suggest that no such scenarios exist is to suggest that people are wrong to use prior experiences to make judgment calls on how to proceed in an impending but familiar situation... its like forced amnesia

Of course, danger lies in the creation + usage of stereotypes to disenfranchise or harm someone (i.e. the growing # of attacks on people assumed to be of Muslim descent since 9/11, the blocking of mosques etc), but IMO there's no harm/foul in saying "there is high crime in the inner city, I do not want to live there" or having experienced a change in the worse for one's neighborhood due to inner city folks moving in and saying "since these inner city folks have moved in the quality of life has gone down dramatically, i do not want to live around them"

Its no different from not wanting to live around young party people or whatever, certain demographics just have higher incidences of certain behaviors. And it's not the same as to say "i do not want to live around black people" because, TBH, black people are a more diverse group than inner city people. The quality of life issues are way more prevalent + common in poor areas than in "black" areas, the primarily black middle class suburbs in the south are proof of this.

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Whatchuwant
Parliament Menthol Funkadelic
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 2,903

You guys reminded me of this:

http://www.facebook.com/editprofile.php?sk=basic&success=1#!/notes/alex-brook-lynn/adam-chimeras-magical-response-to-a-racist-non-from-park-plope-the-quotation-mar/10150095813580896

"...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa

# Posted 2 yrs ago
krowonhill
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 248

8/10/2010

Separate is never equal:
Rice Professor: Damage from segregation rises with each generation
(excerpted)
...

Emerson, the Allyn and Gladys Cline Professor of Sociology and co-director of the university's new Institute for Urban Research (IUR), gave a brief summary of segregation in Houston based on the 2000 Census that showed distinct separation between black and white neighborhoods, with Hispanics somewhat more integrated but still dominating many neighborhoods of their own.

"People make their own decisions, their own incomes, and they're all trying to get the best house and neighborhood they can get. How does it end up they live so segregated by race?" he asked.

Emerson said he hears two common answers. The first: "It's not race; it's class.

"In fact, that's not the answer," he said. "There is a range of incomes within any racial group, and when we look at where people live by income level, (they're) still segregated by race. Segregation by race is substantially greater than segregation by income."

The second answer -- "People like to live with people like themselves" -- is somewhat more accurate, he said, but still not the answer. “What we have found is that in current times, many people want not to live with certain people -- people they think will drive down their property values, raise crime and lower the quality of local education. They use race to decide these other factors."

Emerson's own neighborhood is a good example of what has befallen not only Houston but also major cities nationwide. "When I moved there, it was mixed with many racial groups, but now it's 99 percent black and Hispanic," said the professor, who is white. He noted that in 21st-century America, he's "totally convinced we have to live in integrated neighborhoods, so my family and I choose to do so."

Too few are so committed to diversity, according to the most recent Houston Area Survey.

A "factorial experiment" of African-Americans, Hispanics and whites, 1,000 each, revealed important results. Individuals were first asked if they'd buy a house that had everything they were looking for, was close to work and within their price range.

"Everybody hears that," Emerson said. "Then there was a part that was computer-generated (with parameters that changed for each phone call): Checking on the neighborhood, you find the property values are increasing/decreasing, the crime rate is high/low, the schools are of high/low quality, and the neighborhood is X percent respondent’s own race and X-to-100 percent of another racial group.

"This is a lot to remember," he said. "That's exactly what we want, because we're looking to see what people key on. For example, if I hear 'crime rate is increasing,' that's what I'll remember, and I probably won't buy that home."

Emerson said the results showed, as expected, sensitivity among all groups to high crime rates and low-quality schools. Blacks and whites were more sensitive to home valuation than Hispanics.

"Are there still racial-composition effects? If what people tell us is true, they should go away," he said. Race is indeed less of an issue for Hispanics, at least in Harris County. But for whites, "you get a different story. They are highly sensitive to percent black and percent Hispanic.

"Even if you take a neighborhood that has low crime, high-quality schools and rising property values and you say it's 30 percent black, in almost every single case, the white respondent will say, 'Not likely to buy the home.'"

And the more educated whites are, the more likely they are to live in highly segregated neighborhoods, he said. “Again, this is not an income effect; it’s an education effect.

"What we find is that we can have diverse neighborhoods; we just can't have whites in those diverse neighborhoods for very long because of their racial preferences."

...

http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=14607

BY MIKE WILLIAMS
Rice News staff

...

Very un- "sivilized".

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

I am with you Krowonhill!

http://brooklynian.com/forum/brooklyn-politics/american-society-the-poor-the-unemployed/page/9

Um, how the hell do we get to a better place?

How do we implement Brown v Board of Education?

....what the hell do we do until then?

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
SnowboardQueen
getting it
Joined: Jan '09
Posts: 248

Black On Black Gentrification - personally speaking, I hate the idea of my economic presence pushing-forcing anyone out because I can afford the market rate, more than they pay etc.

But, when the community is of African descent (black), it has an extra sting of a cumulated effects of long, historic pattern of systematic injustice in Afro- Americans attempted home ownership and being systematically denied loans - when qualified - racial convents in leases not to sell to blacks etc

In all honesty, this is the first community where I'm a "Gentrifier" of sorts. The E Vilage & Park Slope had long been gentrified when I moved in.

Black on Black gentrification is a highly nuanced subject, especially in NYC.

But personally, I try to "fit in". Engage and truly try to know and understand this particular community. I don't want to live near crime, gun violence, drug activity and ignorant people of any race or class.

Unfortunately, there is a major class divide in CH regardingvtge new arrivals and sone of the long yoners, mainly the rent controlled or Section 8 receptiants, and quite frankly I try not to call attention on what side of the line I fall on.

I also notice a large group of mainly Midfle-age, Midfle class, people of African descent, home owners who do not seem to be recognized in these discussions of gentrification. As they seem not to fit the "cultural type" of what some of the newcomers recognize as symbols of middle-classiness.

Personal, I feel Criwn Heights is on the road to gentrification.,, BUT if you're renting with a roomaye or two to pay the rent, you may pay more than your "long time" neighbor.., but don't kid yourself.., you are more like the constructionworkers in my mind.

Tearing up or changing the old, to prepare for the new or true gentry. The home, condo or co-op buyers making very comfortable high 5 figures, but more than likely 6 figure salaries.

Right now, in Crown Heights, more white kids may be moving in, in higher numbers than before renting at higher prices than before.., but are they the Gentry? In my personal opinion no.

They are the transitional kids who will help transform the social-racial- and somewhat economic demographic to make the true Gentry, deep pocketed professionals, feel comfortable crossing Flatbush ave, least more Washington, Franklin or Nostrand.

So, unless you own, or are making plans to own in the next 3 -5 yrs.., be prepared to be exploring East New York soon and starting all over again.

They vulnerable, low capital individuals are the first to be screwed. It may be the long term renter today, but tomorrow when a population of young, single professionals - making a confutable very high 5 figure salary at the lowest - and medium salary in the 6 figures discovers Crown Heights - then truly say hello to the Gentry as you are being priced- forced-pushed out.

BottOn Line - O personally take no pleasure in pushing any hard working, law abiding person or famy out because I earn more -and it does sting just a bit more when they look like me and/ or my relatives - but lack the education, resources and social networking skills I posses.

snowboarding, photography, films, art, counter culture, alternative

# Posted 2 yrs ago
mr. met
rocking it
Joined: Dec '07
Posts: 1,407

"Even if you take a neighborhood that has low crime, high-quality schools and rising property values and you say it's 30 percent black, in almost every single case, the white respondent will say, 'Not likely to buy the home.'"

And the more educated whites are, the more likely they are to live in highly segregated neighborhoods, he said. “Again, this is not an income effect; it’s an education effect.

"What we find is that we can have diverse neighborhoods; we just can't have whites in those diverse neighborhoods for very long because of their racial preferences."

yup, it all comes down to white people being racist.

simple, clean, and convenient.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

Snowboard Q-
Good post.

When a neighborhood changes, a lot of the research says that those who are most likely to be priced out of a neighborhood are folks who were barely able to afford it before the change. Basically, unlike higher income groups, they have no cushion of discretionary funds to allocate toward more rent.

As you stated, this is partly due to government programs (such as Sect 8, rent stabilization, etc) that effectively protect long term residents lucky enough to receive them.

I also agree with your assertion that those displaced are often replaced by those who earn only slightly more than them.

Capt Planet and I discussed a group of folks that we feel are particularly susceptible here:

http://brooklynian.com/forum/crown-heights-and-prospect-lefferts-gardens/housing-abandonment-and-homeless#post-728051

The problems arises in that not everyone is in favor of increased protections for tenants.

For example, people who own rental properties would like to get the most money for their properties and be free from government restrictions.

For example, taxpayers and politicians are weary of promising protections and assistance that will be expensive or tedious to implement and enforce.

We also live in a city that tries to merely balance the pace of change, as opposed to actually preventing change. We also live in a neighborhood that has had a huge boom in housing construction and refurbishing of long vacant properties ....which is to say, not all of the new faces in the neighborhood are the result of old faces being displaced.

As a result of the competing forces in the housing market, I can't say I think we ended up in this situation as a result of anyone's (political party, rental tenants, mayor, REBNY, HUD, landlord, potential homeowners, homebuilders, etc.) actual design and strength.

The forces are just too complex and strong to point a finger and say ....you are too blame!

In fact, I have concluded that NO ONE would design our present system, because it is not logical in so many ways.

...the "system" stems from an ongoing evolution of ever changing regulations, preferences (which includes ones based on race), and incomes.

As a result of this ongoing evolution, no one interest or set of people has control over it.

But, yup, those with money, education and connections always have more control over their lives than those without. I can't imagine ever changing that fact, and you are wise to be aware that someday you too may be priced out. (as may I)

Due to the factors I have listed, I do not think I will ever get to see what it look like to live in a place that went to the extent that it attempted to prohibit neighborhood changes that arose from market forces.

Nor am I certain that I would want to live in such a place.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Too few are so committed to diversity, according to the most recent Houston Area Survey.

Lol, I was unaware that diversity was a goal. Like the billions of people before and with us, I prefer to live around people like me, and have no problem saying it, whether it involves me saying 'i would prefer to live around more black professionals' or 'i would prefer not to live around white construction workers'

I'm sure those who took the opposite statements like a blow to the gut could 'totally understand' black people either wanting to live around other black people, or not wanting to live around non-blacks

I'm confused

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

There is this whole back and forth because we all have different set points for what is ok or good. Personally I think its a question of values- which are often revealed in the questions we ask as well as how we answer them.

You can begin to get a sense of what I think is important by my questions. The ones I asked as well as the ones I didnt.

1. Is economic diversity good?
2. Is racial diversity good
3. Do I want to live in a racially and economically diverse neighborhood?
4. Is gentrification a problem?
5. Is gentrification a problem if it displaces low income folk from that neighborhood?
6. Is gentrification a problem if it displaces working class folk from that neighborhood?
7. Is gentrification a problem if it displaces middle class folk from that neighborhood?
8.Is gentrification a problem if it displace me?
9. Is gentrification that displaces people inevitable?

You can also get a sense of where I am coming from by my answers:
1. Is economic diversity good? YES
2. Is racial diversity good? YES
3. Do I want to live in a racially and economically diverse neighborhood? YES
4. Is gentrification a problem? MAYBE. It doesnt have to be a problem if it results in economically and racially diverse neighborhoods. And no I dont have a magic formula
5. Is gentrification a problem if it displaces low income folk from that neighborhood? HELL YEAH
6. Is gentrification a problem if it displaces working class folk from that neighborhood? HELL YEAH
7. Is gentrification a problem if it displaces middle class folk from that neighborhood? YES
8.Is gentrification a problem if it displace me? MAYBE, if it's just me it might be ok since I have choices. But if its happening to a lot of people then YES (see answer 5-7 above)
9. Is gentrification that displaces people inevitable? I dont think so-otherwise I wouldnt be having this conversation

So there you have it. You have a general gist of where I am coming from and what I think is important.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

Snowboard queen, interesting point about waves of people moving in that foretell the "real gentry" coming in. I guess however way you define it I am pretty ambivalent about being gentrifier-for-now. You defined the pre-gentrifiers pretty clearly. So how do you tell when the gentry are moving in? People make jokes about it being a neighborhood blog, a Starbucks or big name real estate company opening an office. What's the tipping point in your mind that tells you the real gentry is coming?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,408

The easiest way may be to see whether the cars parked on the block are still beat-up heaps, or whether the proportion of new Toyotas and Hondas is increasing. Once you see a significant number of BMWs (ones without spinner rims and blackout glass), Audis and Land Rovers, it's too late... The nabe is gentrified.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

booklaw said:
The easiest way may be to see whether the cars parked on the block are still beat-up heaps, or whether the proportion of new Toyotas and Hondas is increasing.

Then comes someone ahead of me in line at the supermarket stating to the cashier that they should carry better vegetables, and me thinking to myself "yes, I have an ally!"

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,408

That's probably another reliable sign of regime change.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
mr. met
rocking it
Joined: Dec '07
Posts: 1,407

What's an example of an economically diverse neighborhood in NYC, or America?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

Actually I think NYC probably has more economic diversity within neighborhoods than most places. Granted there is still extreme geographic segregation by class even in diverse neighborhoods, but look at neighborhoods like Ft Greene that has very well off professionals, long-time middle class homeowners, lower income folks in housing projects and no income college students.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

whynot_31 said:
So true, nearnostrand.

While I admire and appreciate the efforts of those who work to eliminate the effects of racism and classism in our society, I often wonder if they have an understanding of "epistemology", "knowledge organization", and "reductionism" as these terms are used by folks in the fields of philosophy, sociology, psychology and library sciences.

...

I can't imagine that the effects of "engaging in too much reductionism" are a lot different for someone based on their economic power, social class or skin color. As a result, I have a hard time cutting anyone slack.

Bravo; very well stated!

# Posted 2 yrs ago
witch-king
Rex Aeterna
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 496

If your taste in reading includes the academic, there's a case study of this matter (apologies if this has been referenced earlier in the thread).

Mary Pattillo, Black on the Block (2007).

your anger is delicious. - dieter

# Posted 2 yrs ago
mrs whynot
getting it
Joined: Oct '08
Posts: 66

If you want to look up how diverse neighborhoods are, go to the NY Times site, click on the map on ethnic diversity, click on NY state and then blow it up to see NYC.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

What you will find is that there are some diverse neighborhoods in Queens mostly along the #7 Line and between the LIE and Jamaica Avenue to the east of the Van Wyck. Brooklyn is pretty racially segregated with mostly white neighborhoods to the west of Flatbush and mostly black neighborhoods to the east.

Crown Heights looks more diverse than many Brooklyn neighborhoods - not because of the new people moving in from the west but because of the Hasidic population smack in the middle of the neighborhood.

That brings me to the question of what we mean by neighborhood diversity? Is living near someone not like ourselves sufficient? Do we mean actually talking to neighbors who are not like us? Eating in their restaurants? Having them eat in ours? Having our kids play in playgrounds together? Go to school together? Going to each others' apartments for dinner?

Also, we should never confuse change with gentrification. The Lower East Side from 1830 to 1980 was a succession of poor immigrant/migrant peoples who replaced each other without ever managing gentrification. Lots of change or little change depending on if you were talking about race or economics.

Snowboard Queen may be right when she says that people living together because they can't make the rent are the harbingers of gentrifiers to come. However, they may be indicators of things going in the opposite direction too. Unless those young people start earning more money - and I don't see that happening except for the very wealthiest groups in our society - there won't be a real chance that they will get out of the group housing situation. And if things go in that direction, then young people living together looks more like a downturn from an economic perspective than a gentrification.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
MHA
rocking it
Joined: Feb '10
Posts: 1,352

Wow, that's a lot to ingest. Speaking of ingesting I am about to get some baguette bread, blue cheese, and some olive oil -- three things I could not get around the corner last year this time. And oh, it's nearly 1am in the morning... As I make the walk, I will be wary of the brothas up to no good, the white girls who give me cautious glances, and the white dudes with fixed closed faces as I walk by...

Gentrification brings with it access to better goods and services. It's a crest of betterment that if you can afford it, it's a wonderful thing. If you can't then it sucks like crazy. I am riding the wave as best I can.

Here is another article that refers to the issues of gentrification, and being a person of color:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904E0DC113DF933A15751C0A9679D8B63

# Posted 2 yrs ago
mr. met
rocking it
Joined: Dec '07
Posts: 1,407

the white dudes with fixed closed faces

haha

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

MHA said:
Wow, that's a lot to ingest. Speaking of ingesting I am about to get some baguette bread, blue cheese, and some olive oil -- three things I could not get around the corner last year this time. And oh, it's nearly 1am in the morning... As I make the walk, I will be wary of the brothas up to no good, the white girls who give me cautious glances, and the white dudes with fixed closed faces as I walk by...

Gentrification brings with it access to better goods and services. It's a crest of betterment that if you can afford it, it's a wonderful thing. If you can't then it sucks like crazy. I am riding the wave as best I can.

Here is another article that refers to the issues of gentrification, and being a person of color:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9904E0DC113DF933A15751C0A9679D8B63

Interesting article. The city is always changing now. I get scoffed at by young people for having moved to Manhattan

But various parts of the city have gone through radical changes. I know old white dudes from ENY... ENY! They sometimes mention in passing how different the neighborhood was.

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

So, we seem to all agree that adapting to a changing neighborhood is VERY hard, and harder on some people than others.

Although I'm not a fan of Brady Bunch, does this song help with the transition?

Time For Change

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How about this one by the Jackson Five?

It's too late to change the time

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For best results, make sure to closely listen to the words of each!

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

How does one balance the combined wisdom of
The Jackson Five and the Brady Bunch
against
the wisdom of Public Enemy?

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Gasp, can both perspectives be right?

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

Maybe this is part of the answer....

Note: The links in the above don't work. Folks will need to cut and paste.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
SnowboardQueen
getting it
Joined: Jan '09
Posts: 248

Trumystic said:
Snowboard queen, interesting point about waves of people moving in that foretell the "real gentry" coming in...

You defined the pre-gentrifiers pretty clearly. So how do you tell when the gentry are moving in? People make jokes about it being a neighborhood blog, a Starbucks or big name real estate company opening an office. What's the tipping point in your mind that tells you the real gentry is coming?

Tipping Points:[u]

When I park and retrieve my motorcycle from the garage, there are many nice, under stated expensive cars, and I'm not the only one tipping the attendants.

Being invited to the Harvard Club - by a few neighbors - to discuss a fabulous idea they have for a documentary.

Being invited to my new neighbors - lil' cottage - ie huge mansion/summer house in the Hamptons.

The "Hipsters" quickly disappearing and being replaced by the Upper East side casuals with bank accounts and/or family funds to match.

Asking if I can recommend where "qualified" help to clean their homes, take their clothes to the cleaners etc.

When apt rentals become condos and are brought 2 to 3 at a time - by 1 person - to make 1 lovely apt.

When lovely brownstones are brought, quickly gutted, either rehabilitated or completely modernized as the new owners comfortable rent, lease live elsewhere.

Starbucks - why would it exist? When your sweet domestic help can be trained to make a mean cappuccino in your coffee bar off the side of your renovated kitchen.

And finally, when the sweet, young kids living 2 or more to an apt., start bombarding the boards with how they are being priced and/or forced out by their greedy landlords to rent to a single person who can afford to rent at twice the rate all the roommates combined were paying. And they are now being forced to consider housing East of Utica.

This is just the being as Franklin Ave and Nostrand ave will be completely unrecognizable AND there will be a rumors that West Indians and people of African descent used to live in Crown Heights - just as in Park slope.

snowboarding, photography, films, art, counter culture, alternative

# Posted 2 yrs ago
BobMarvin
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 167

"What's an example of an economically diverse neighborhood in NYC, or America?"

You just have to cross Empire Blvd. into the other neighborhood that's [slightly] represented on this list

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

SnowboardQueen said:

And finally, when the sweet, young kids living 2 or more to an apt., start bombarding the boards with how they are being priced and/or forced out by their greedy landlords to rent to a single person who can afford to rent at twice the rate all the roommates combined were paying. And they are now being forced to consider housing East of Utica.

This is just the being as Franklin Ave and Nostrand ave will be completely unrecognizable AND there will be a rumors that West Indians and people of African descent used to live in Crown Heights - just as in Park slope.

SnowboardQueen,

You seem to define gentrifiers as being what I will call the 5th Wave. Meanwhile, other readers seem to use the term to apply to the Sweet Young Kids you mention. I see the kids at least 3rd Wave.

Here's a crude guide of my definition, and I've bolded the change in each:

First Wave: Employed people replace people who's main form of support was public assistance: AFDC/SSI/SSD.

Second Wave: Employed people with some college replace the first wave.

Third Wave: Employed people with who have completed college replace the second wave.

Forth Wave: Employed people who have completed college and have some wealth replace the third wave

Fifth Wave: The folks described by SnowboardQueen. They have salaried positions and careers with career ladders, not "merely employment". They have wealth.

Please note (that unlike SnowboardQueen), I am not certain that "this is just the beginning". I am not confident that Franklin and Nostrand are on a path that will certainly lead to them being attractive to the 5th Wave.

I fear the economy may retract long before enough of the 5th Wave is created to "have to" live in Crown Heights.

....gentrification may be just another way of saying "a neighborhood increasing in income and wealth", but I often wonder if the "opponents to gentrification" have put much thought into the alternatives: slum-ification and ghetto-ification.

In other words, if the economy crashes, the Nostrand and Franklin may not only stop gentrifying, but may actually decline. Slums and ghettos are created when a neighborhood's reputation and the overall economy take a turn for the worse.

Change is constant. What goes up, often comes down.

I just hope the neighborhood doesn't come down during my tenure here ....cause I like living around here. I'd hate for everyone I know (including businesses) to leave, or "change" because there was suddenly a new class of people (be it higher or lower) that demanded to be catered to.

....but I also realize that I can't control whether such things occur; I am not more powerful than macro economics.

Is anyone?

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

P.S. Obviously there are a lot more factors that go into determining one's ability to pay more for housing than "college".

Some of the reasons that people have less money for housing are deemed illegal, and investigated by the NYC Commission on Human Rights, or the state Division of Human Rights, or Feds.

And, of course, people can pay more money for housing as a result of skills, demand, accumulated wealth, interests, etc.

The waves I describe are illustrative, at best.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

Hmmm... To me it seems like there are 2 different waves of gentrification. Gentrification wave 1 is middle class people replacing mostly lower income people.(I say "mostly" cause there are many middle class homeowners in Crown Heights). Gentrification wave 2 is rich people replacing middle class people.

But maybe saying the "real gentry" makes it easier to point and say "its the rich people who are doing it". When do people i.e. middle class people take ownership for being part of this process and at the same time ally themselves with lower income people so that we can create communities where multiple classes can coexist? (And yes I realize lots of people dont think socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods are the ideal). Alternatively, maybe its just a part of the American Dream- people dont want to ally themselves with the poor because they have this dream of getting out and becoming rich. Why upset the pyramid if one day you could stand at the top?

# Posted 2 yrs ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

I don't think that you can have this discussion outside the bounds of race. Taking Whynot's list, there always have been black residents of Crown Heights who fit within the description of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd (and to a very limited extent 4th)wave. They were always here. They lived here in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. They are invisible to the "real gentry" because those folks have a very limited view as to what kind of neighborhood they moved into. They see the current residents as a monolith, without any distinction.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

Homeowner-
I totally agree. And if we want to complicate things further we can briefly state that we live in INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS which cater to different classes of people. I.E. People in different "waves" can live on the same block, but (barring rent control and section 8 ) they rarely live in the same building.

Trumystic-
Ah, but the world has so many more classes and there are so many more gradations of income.

Don't you think the unemployed people in Wave 0, perceive Wave 1 as gentrifiers?

Just like the people in Wave 1 perceive the people in Wave 2 as gentrifiers?

Just like the people in Wave 2 perceive the people in Wave 3 as gentrifiers?

Just like the people in Wave 3 perceive the people in Wave 4 as gentrifiers?

Just like the people in Wave 4 perceive the people in Wave 5 as gentrifiers?

etc, etc.?

In other words, the only thing it takes to change a neighborhood and be labeled a gentrifier is to have slightly more money. You don't need to be "rich", you just need to have more money than me, and I label you a "gentrifier".

Now let's jabber about class:

Although it takes luck and hard work, people are able to move to higher classes. ....Are they ALWAYS able to do it, does hard work always pay off? Of course not, but enough do that there is a correlation between being in a higher class and work. Some draw a correlation between luck (such as being in the right place at the right time, being healthy, as well as having things like the "right skin hue") and a higher class, and prefer to put most of the focus there.

Conversely, being a slacker or unlucky, often makes one fall into a lower class. ....Do all slackers and people with health problems end up poor? Of course not, but enough do that there is a correlation between being in a lower class and being a slacker. Some draw a correlation between being in a lower class and being unlucky (having a health condition, being born with "the wrong hue", etc) and prefer to put most of the focus there.

With me?

Now let's see where these things lead:

In this country, the dominant philosophy is that one's hue is fixed [Michael Jackson being a notable exception].

However, one's class is assumed to be flexible. We'd like to believe that that work pays, and that for the most part, life fairly distributes benefits based on work and skills (not luck).

[whether we should have this assumption, or hold on to it as firmly as we do, is a different issue]

As a result, many assume that people in lower class are there because they do not work hard. ....not because they are unlucky. This assumption obviously minimizes instances in which you can work your butt off in a labor job, yet never be promoted to supervisor. It also minimizes the fact that your kids can attend crappy schools in which it is almost impossible to learn, not matter how hard you try because your peers may beat the crap out of you for trying to succeed.

For a moment, picture yourself in Wave 1.
In your view, you are better than Wave 0. You work! While you happen to have more money, you also believe that you deserve that apartment more than they do.

Now picture yourself in Wave 2.
In your view, you are better than Wave 1. You took some technical classes at the community college to get some skills, and they didn't. While you happen to have more money, you also believe that you deserve that apartment more than they do.

The same is true for Wave 3, 4, and 5.

To make a long story short:
a. "Everybody does it"

b. One does not have to ever believe that they are "going to be rich", one simply has to believe that they are more entitled to the apartment than the person who just left.

....while both a and b allow us to the mental zen needed to assure ourselves we are not evil, "c" really seals the deal:

c. Ultimately one is entitled because one can pay the money demanded by the landlord/owner While discrimination exists, even if you are healthy, educated and have the right hue, if you ain't got no money ....you don't get the apartment!

In other words, you believe you are entitled to the apartment because (no matter how rich you are) you had the discipline not to spend all of your money on OTHER stuff you wanted.

This is NYC, and you are foregoing something to pay for it; whether that is good $6 cheese, or a personal $5M yacht is just a matter of means and preferences.

...and the beat goes on.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,096

P.S. A Brooklynian happy hour seems to be in the works. About 20 people attended the last one, which was in December.

http://brooklynian.com/forum/the-lounge-random-stuff/happy-hour-2#post-728434

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Trumystic
getting it
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 104

From: Communicating Gentrification
Volume 5 , Issue 2 - April 2010

In most large cities, there is a neighborhood that has become known as the new hip area. You could go there and find a range of new restaurants and bars; pop into some funky clothing stores and independently owned record shops; and find some cafes that felt unique because they didn't feature the same green, white, and black logo that adorns other cafes in other parts of the city. You were fascinated by the street life in this neighborhood, especially the quantity of twenty-somethings who were hanging out, most of whom seemed to be adorned with tattoos, piercings, and thrift store apparel. The newspaper, alternative weekly, and on-line magazines all told a similar story about this area: the neighborhood was once a grubby no-man's land until the artists moved there, breathing life into this urban frontier.

But then the neighborhood started to change; it was gentrifying. The reporters now describe this change as a problem because the neighborhood is quickly losing its edge. That is, people like you are hanging around too often, looking to buy a condo, and transforming the place from an artsy bohemian enclave into a haven for yuppies and middle class couples with one child and a large dog.

Gentrification refers to the transformation of poor and working class urban neighborhoods into middle-class or upper class areas. Communication is central to this process--framing changes as they happen and then explaining the conversion after the fact. The popular press has been one of the most important sources for information about this urban issue. Newspapers, alternative weeklies, and magazines have dedicated increasingly more space to this subject since 1985, when stories started to appear regularly in US publications. There are clearly unique geographical, historical, and political situations that facilitate gentrification in different cities. Yet, publication outlets within a geographic region publish similar stories, and coverage of the issue reads the same across geographic regions, especially when artists are involved. Reports in the San Francisco Chronicle mirror articles published by the Chicago Tribune, for example. Three interesting storylines appear regularly that help frame artist-led gentrification.
... http://www.natcom.org/CommCurrentsArticle.aspx?id=659

The author then goes on to highlight 3 frames of artist led gentrification:
1)"First, press coverage features a consistent narrative about the ways artist-pioneers discover sections of the city, help improve those neighborhoods, and then get chased out by gentrifiers."
2)"A second common storyline is the troubling representation of gentrified neighborhoods as frontiers".
3)"Because artists are willing to move into neighborhoods that are considered less desirable to middle class renters or buyers, reporters often refer to the artists as pioneers, but sometimes calls them shock troops..."

# Posted 2 yrs ago

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