Crown Heights - Nothern vs Southern

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Crown Heights - Nothern vs Southern

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centurifdny
Greenwood/Sunset Lifer
Joined: Feb '08
Posts: 55

Hello,

With a lease ending shortly our family is considering moving into Crown Heights from our present location (Prospect Heights). Having friends who live near the children's museum we have had a chance to go to Northern CH a lot more frequently. What we haven't done is go into the area south of EP along Nostrand. This is where my question arises. Our friends are telling us of a 3-bed in their building that will be available shortly. Their apartment is nice with good closet space and nice sized bedrooms. While the kitchen could use updating is works and two people can work in it comfortably. We are also looking at The Plex and all the amenities is provides in a newer building.

Can the CH residents here weigh in on things like: (North vs South)

1) safety and security
2) shopping/local amenities/ stuff for a late 30s couple with two toddlers to do
3) travel/subway/bus access
4) parking lots nearby for our car

Much appreciated.

Brooklyn- Only the Strong Survive!

# Posted 3 mos ago
The Invisible Lines
getting it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 102

I'm not terribly familiar with south CH, but I can say with definitiveness that north CH has more to offer on all of your points. There are more businesses, particularly along Franklin and Nostrand between Eastern Parkway and Prospect Place, and because of that it is more populated at nearly all hours of the day/night. Over the past couple of years a slew of new family-friendly store and restaurants have popped up, with more on the way. You'd probably be equidistant to the 2/3/4/5 at Franklin and Eastern Parkway, and the B48 bus has recently re-continued running its line in the neighborhood. And there is a pretty good amount of available street parking, and some complexes actually have private parking. Good luck with your decision.

# Posted 3 mos ago
dmiami
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 164

My 2 cents below… (FYI, I live on the south side of EP so my be a little bias)

1) safety and security

It's got to be about the same, generally speaking. It seems like both S. and N. have a specific areas (or blocks to avoid). I “feel” safer on the S. side but that’s probably just because I’m more familiar with it. The orthodox area just a block East of Nostrand has very low crime compared to the surrounding areas to the North. You can look at data and maps to compare, I doubt there is a huge difference. I woun’d waste too much time on it. If you want a “safe” neighborhood I wouldn’t move to Crown Heights North or South.

2) shopping/local amenities/ stuff for a late 30s couple with two toddlers to do

No fancy new stores and restaurants like Franklin ave N. of EP. Not even close on that one. However, I will say that most of the new joints on Franklin aren’t really kid friendly destinations anyway… There IS better access to the Park, Zoo, Carousel and Garden from the South.

3) travel/subway/bus access

Better than N. of EP since the 2 and 5 train turns down Nostrand to the South from EP. Also, you are closer to the Q at Prospect Park.

4) parking lots nearby for our car

No idea. But street parking is easy.

I haven’t been to the Plex but it looks nice. Also, there is a popular apt building around the corner from the Plex, on Montgomery, that advertises nice places to rent or buy. I believe it’s called the The Dearborn.

# Posted 3 mos ago
thecameralady
a real native.
Joined: Jun '07
Posts: 35

2) shopping/local amenities/ stuff for a late 30s couple with two toddlers to do

No fancy new stores and restaurants like Franklin ave N. of EP. Not even close on that one. However, I will say that most of the new joints on Franklin aren’t really kid friendly destinations anyway… There IS better access to the Park, Zoo, Carousel and Garden from the South.

I can testify that the fancy stores have not made it onto the other side of the hill (south of Eastern Parkway) yet.

If you are off the 2 train, it's a straight shot to the Target at the Junction. It is larger and generally better stocked than the one at Atlantic Center (if you do not mind Target).

If you want something to do with kids, you can always take your kids to First Saturday at Brooklyn Museum; they have child-friendly events and areas. When the weather is warmer, the kids may be entertained by the water fountain.

The Brooklyn Botanic Garden (BBG) and the Prospect Park carousel would be cool to check out when the weather gets nicer. (P.S. Admission is free on Tuesdays and Saturday mornings before 12 noon.)

I think there is a decent playground in the park that is near the Eastern Parkway entrance of the BBG.

There are some interesting spots popping up in the Prospect-Lefferts Gardens area. The Q at Parkside Blog is a good source of information.

3) travel/subway/bus access
It depends on where you are. For example, I am closer to the B and the Q and the Franklin Avenue Shuttle. The IRT is up the hill from me. If you are further east, you may end up closer to the 2 on Nostrand Avenue.

Re: Bus access - Again, it depends on where you are. For example, I am closest to the B41, B49, B48, and B43. The B44 is a little further away from me. If you were in the Plex, the closest buses would be the B44 and the B43 and the B49.

# Posted 3 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

As dmiami points out, the situation can vary a lot block to block. If you're looking at CHN, I would avoid the northeastern quadrant of the neighborhood. Things rapidly descend east of Kingston Ave.

As a rule, you'll find better deals on the south side of EP. That will come at the cost of fewer amenities and somewhat emptier streets.

A number of the establishments at Franklin Ave are toddler-friendly. Little Zelda's and Franklin Park, for starters.

# Posted 3 mos ago
dmiami
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 164

In fairness Dutch Boy / Franklin Park is kid friendly. Barbancino is doable with kids too.

# Posted 3 mos ago
mr. met
rocking it
Joined: Dec '07
Posts: 1,407

saw kids at Mayfield over the weekend, and Lincoln Station

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,026

That store, Stork, sells baby clothing.

I bet it is child friendly.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
dmiami
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 164

Good point. Being on the south side, closer to PLG, there is also Play Kids which is bigger than Stork.

http://www.playkidsstore.com/

# Posted 3 mos ago
centurifdny
Greenwood/Sunset Lifer
Joined: Feb '08
Posts: 55

Thanks all. My wife and I appreciate the comments and information and welcome more of it. The thought of moving is stressful enough, but all the unknown about other nabes has us a doing a lot of googling and driving around to find a good balance.

Anyone here live in the Plex and can share a bit about the blgd/mgmt/amenities?

Thanks... really.

Brooklyn- Only the Strong Survive!

# Posted 3 mos ago
The Invisible Lines
getting it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 102

Oh, and of course there's http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-candy-rush-brooklyn. Right on Franklin north of EP. They sell pretty much any kind of candy you can imagine (and quite a few I haven't seen since I was a kid). Good ice cream, too. The first time I went in there I went apeshit and probably gained five pounds.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,026

Candy Rush has recently closed, and will not re-open in the Spring. The nearby sandwich shop owned by the same owners (Taste Buds), might begin serving ice cream in the Spring.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
ntfool
above average
Joined: Sep '08
Posts: 483

Oh no, what happened to Candy Rush?

If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

spurn Productions, Inc.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,026

The proprieters of Candy Rush own the building, so my understanding is that they are going to see if they can increase revenue by renting the store out to entities on a "known short list".

Needless to say, winter is not a very profitable time to be an ice cream store.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
dmiami
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 164

This article seems more relevant to this thread than the Ebbets one. So posting here for whynot who found it. Why he did not, i don't know.

So crime is basically the same N. and S. of EP (slightly lower S. of EP) Stop and frisk happens more N. of EP.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130205/crown-heights/one-brooklyn-neighborhood-two-very-different-faces-of-stop-and-frisk

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,026

Many professionals have tried to figure out why I do the things the ways I do. Most fail.

That said, I wish that article had examined more than three factors: crime rate, race, and stop and frisks.

I fear the article led the reader to believe that causation was (or should be) a simple interaction between those three factors. However, factors like income, education, employment, drug use, parenting, all play a role.

The so called "culture" of the individual neighborhoods and precincts also seem important.

Ours is not a world that can be summed up nicely in a short article in DNA.info

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
The Invisible Lines
getting it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 102

Oh no! That's a shame. I just noticed they were shuttered this morning on the way to work. Sorry for the bad tip :-/

# Posted 3 mos ago
TeReKeTe
getting it
Joined: Aug '05
Posts: 119

i've lived on the South side of EP for (yikes) almost 12 years-- things have drastically changed in that amount of time. maybe not as visually striking as franklin north of EP, but-- there were some really, really bad blocks on this side in 2001. Because of the post office's "delivery" techniques, i've wound up walking back and forth to the PO on Empire alot recently, taking as different a route as i can each time.

Overall, things are QUIET in a great way these days. No more random gunfire on union. Next-to-no sketchiness on rogers, though it's still a pretty dead avenue. Lots of hustle and bustle on Nostrand, even if Ethiopian Taste is gone And well-kept houses with tidy yards everywhere. It's not particularly sexy, but it's feeling like a safe, secure neighborhood centered around the local college--

which is definitely not how things felt before. Good stuff.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,026

Exactly.

It is helpful to perceive neighborhood change (aka gentrification) as often being a complex, long process, as opposed to one big change.

-This allows one to see that the type of people living in an area have changed, even though their hue may not have.

-This allows one to see that a neighborhood was often changing long before the "rich white people arrived".

A Sample, very simplistic, not sequential, not all encompassing, scenario:

1. An area primarily occupied by vacant homes and drug users, becomes inhabited by adult homes and shelters.

2. The adult homes and shelters are displaced by landlords which take Section 8 for persons with disabilites, and/or on public assistance.

3. The S8 and PA folks are displaced by people who are employed at just above minimum wage.

4. The min wage folks are displaced by folks with a define skill, defined by a certificate or an Associates degree.

5. BA/BS level folks displace the AA/AS folks.

6. People with accumulated and/or inherited wealth displace the BA/BS level folks.

7. People in high paying positions and wealth displace the folks in #6.

Note, an area can go generally forward or generally backward in the process. Also, there can be islands (blocks, buildings) within neighborhoods that seem to lag behind or leap ahead of the process.

Crime often increases as an area reaches lower numbers, and decreases as it reaches higher numbers. Rents and property values often increase with the higher numbers.

TeReKeTe-
I'm glad you feel your neighborhood has improved. I like it too.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago