This article hints at some of the debate, and its facets:
However, this is a debate that started a long, long time ago. The article below gives some context, and leaves readers to arbitrarily decide when this debate first occurred:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolutionary_history_of_life
Pro-tip: The debate hasn't stopped since it started.
When will we be able to finally put this thing to bed? I'm really getting sick of people complaining about the neighborhood changing.
I start with four premises:
1. Change is always happening.
2. Despite 1, a portion of the population concludes that change is not occurring when it does not affect them. This segement concludes that they are actually in control of their surroundings.
3. This same segment is often oblivious to the precursors of change. As a result, when they do perceive change as actually happening, they believe that:
-they should have been consulted because they believe others WERE consulted.
-their "rights" were violated because they were not in control of the change.
4. We will never all have the same number of options, nor will we rank our options in the same way or incur the same pleasure or pain from excercising our options. This is compounded when people do not take full advantages of the options they DO have.
Based on these 4 premises:
I conclude that not accepting change is often one of the least effective coping mechanisms. In my view, those who accept that they have very little control over their surroundings (and/or take proactive responses to detect and adapt to change), seem to be happiest.
Upon my arrival to the states I am going ask for a bike corral in front of both pulp locations and in front of b & b too. In fact I'm going to start riding a bike to work.
Wow pulp&bean. Is this serious? And if so, has an experience in another country convinced you to do this?
What would be even better is a Citibike share station for Franklin Ave, once the program actually starts.
I'm back in NY now. I will consider city bike too. If any one would like to stop by and have coffee with me and discuss options that would benifit the community I will be availible starting Monday.
I'm so happy to hear pulp and bean will be pushing to get two bike corrals i will spreAd the word in the community!
If Pulp and Bean is successful, I think it would be the first instance of getting more than one bike corral in a given Community Board.
Little Zelda already has one.
Presently there are only something like 9 total, spread throughout the city.
I'd love to see a second bike corral but I'm not holding my breath. Pulp and Bean if there is anything I can do to help you make this a reality let me know.
I wonder whether it would be possible to put the corrals in the area near fire hydrants. The reasoning behind leaving that space unencumbered is to allow free access to hydrants for hoses, which is obviously a lot less problematic with bike racks than with cars. So in the 15 ft space currently dedicated to fire hydrants you could dedicate 5 ft to bike racks, have 5 ft of empty space directly in front of the hydrant and have another 5 ft of bike racks.
Think about how much bike parking you could have citywide if you did this, without sacrificing any motor vehicle parking. Plus, you'd actually prevent illegal parking at hydrants which still occurs.
^ that is a fantastic idea!
It is a fantastic idea, with one possible flaw: just imagine the tenderness with which firemen would (not!) treat the bikes if there were a fire and they needed to get to the hydrant.
I think guys with axes are the least of your potential problems.
At present, the fire plugs are used as de-facto loading zones by cars and trucks.
This allows traffic to get by, and for folks to have convenient, very temporary, spots somewhat near their destination to load and unload stuff.
If you were to fill these zones with bikes, I think the vehicles would double park, thus blocking traffic, and causing honking and irate people.
It's a terrible idea. Hydrants are legal standing zones, which would be even rarer than legal parking spots without them.
I'm always perplexed by people who double-park when there's a hydrant spot available. I really wish double-parking laws were more enforced.
Hydrant spots? LOL. Double parking next to a vacant legal space is something Brooklyn drivers seem to really enjoy. I'm not sure we need to take over every parking space with bike racks (of which we do need more), but do you really think the loss of a few hydrant spots would make a bit of difference? Keep in mind that we are in "angels on the head of a pin" territory here.
Hi all-- just wanted to chime in that I feel like that the DNAinfo story stokes this fire in an unproductive way. The header is misleading (there are actually newer residents who don't want it there and also older ones who are happy to have it) and even opponents don't necessarily want it "torn up and tossed off of Franklin." Lily was saying that she wants better communication, and accountability from the DOT in a few months to assess its success. She of course is critical of the corral but I feel it does Lily a disservice to paint her as simply angry and not mention the rest of her thoughtful comments.
I told this to the journalist at the last CHCA meeting, because selectively spotlighting and amplifying the negativity really undermines the hard work CHCA and a lot of people in the neighborhood are doing in creating a dialogue. And if you look at the most recent story (http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130221/crown-heights/meeting-meant-unify-excludes-large-part-of-crow-hill-community, also the subject of another thread here) it's the exact same thing-- hammering down on the tensions without even mentioning any of the good that is coming out of this whole process, difficult as it is.
I'm not naive about how media outlets function and the value of sensationalizing stuff, but I think it's important to draw attention to it when it has a ngative effect so close to home.
-- Kate (LZ co-owner)
Some tie the arrival of a bike corral to the neighborhood's rapid change, and they have a point.
I think the big picture, however, is that NYC is slowly -but surely- making it harder and more expensive to drive and own a car.
Those who react to changes as "small" as a bike corral, bike lanes, and dedicated bus lanes are often dismissed as being petty. However, they are right:
-The privileges of drivers and car on the streets of NYC are facing serious challenges.
-There is a concerted campaign to make it harder and more expensive to drive a car.
-This is all being done without the consent of everyone in the name of "public good"
-It will likely continue.
NYC has chosen a direction, and is unlikely to change course soon ...even once a new mayor is elected. All of this is hard for some to accept.
I think when another mayor comes in a lot will be retracted a different vision will come forth. I'm surprised that my bike corral issue is still on the thread wow!
I haven't heard any of the mayoral candidates state that they wish to change direction on transportation issues.
Some have stated that they want the process to be more transparent, and more people to be involved, but I feel these are just cosmetic ways of making the change a little easier to digest and implement.
In the summer we tend to have pretty good "bike vs car vs pedestrian" debates on this board, and noise complaints. Complaining about noise, cars, bikes and pedestrians has been a staple of this board.
The board needs a high colonic!
If you want to make a lasting change on some one, or some thing, I would recommend patiently influencing them or gathering allies to intimidate them.
A high colonic only works for a little while, and usually only on one person at a time.
The NYT has run a piece on the bike corral today:
I am becoming less and less optimistic about this mtg in March:
http://brooklynian.com/forum/crown-heights-and-prospect-lefferts-gardens/can-you-help
Reading the comments is funny. Like here "hipsters" are being blamed for the changes. It's really sad to see how xenophobic some members of the community have become. I think its also getting worse.
I suspect very similar comments will be made about the Nostrand Select Bus Lane.
Very fragile correlations will be drawn.
Oh we'll they say the no. 44 bus is one of the slowest buses in NYC and is the fourth most used so this was hasten of course from the economic development coming into Nostrand ave I hear the key food merchant is outraged by it but his complacency has now bit him in the butt. Oh we'll!
I would not go so far to say that the changes are happening as a result of people being complacent.
These are macro changes which can not be stopped. Some religious people, and people in recovery, find this prayer to be helpful:
Oh I hear the people in NA and AA say that prayer all the time
The Serenity prayer:
Works if you work it,
so work it,
you are worth it.
You must service a lot of clients
chloeroyale said:
You must service a lot of clients
?
Sex is awesome, and I am sure sex workers are able achieve acceptance by "servicing a lot of clients", but I think it is self destructive for most.
Acceptance is hard, and what works really varies by the individual.
Saying the Serenity Prayer over and over is done by people who have found nothing else that works.
I am glad they have found something that works.
Wow I touched a nerve!
Quick Robin!
Get the 12 and 12!
Stick to the 12 and 12 remember u have a program so work it.
See you at the Spring Brooklynian Happy Hour?
It sounds like it will be at the new Nostrand Avenue Pub.
....mmm beer.
whynot_31 said:
The NYT has run a piece on the bike corral today:I am becoming less and less optimistic about this mtg in March:
http://brooklynian.com/forum/crown-heights-and-prospect-lefferts-gardens/can-you-help
Brownstoner has now picked up the article, and their commenters are echoing the same thing as the NYT commenters: http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/02/crown-heights-debates-bike-parking-on-franklin/#disqus_thread
Why not why do u feel the mtg will not be productive
Is it just because the media is covering that issue???
Stated above. Especially item #4.
whynot_31 said:
I start with four premises:1. Change is always happening.
2. Despite 1, a portion of the population concludes that change is not occurring when it does not affect them. This segement concludes that they are actually in control of their surroundings.
3. This same segment is often oblivious to the precursors of change. As a result, when they do perceive change as actually happening, they believe that:
-they should have been consulted because they believe others WERE consulted.
-their "rights" were violated because they were not in control of the change.
4. We will never all have the same number of options, nor will we rank our options in the same way or incur the same pleasure or pain from excercising our options. This is compounded when people do not take full advantages of the options they DO have.
Based on these 4 premises:
I conclude that not accepting change is often one of the least effective coping mechanisms. In my view, those who accept that they have very little control over their surroundings (and/or take proactive responses to detect and adapt to change), seem to be happiest.
Oh now I have poor coping skills go on BIG MAN!
In addition to not believing in consensus, I'm am also concerned about the issues detailed in this thread:
http://brooklynian.com/forum/crown-heights-and-prospect-lefferts-gardens/can-you-help
-I am not certain who will be moderator, and whether they will have the skills required.
-I think people will come with unreasonable expectations.
-I think there should be multiple, small meetings that are focused on given topics.
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