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Great expectations

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eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=2286805

Other real estate dorks will remember this as the shell whose pointing looked like it was about to burst bricks all over Sterling Place just about a year ago.

It sold for the mid-$200k's sometime last year (a freakin' steal) and has been under renovation for a while. The result? A single-family townhouse going for almost $600 per square foot.

Now, there's not a whole lot of single-family townhomes in the area, and they do (surprisingly) command a premium over multi-family homes in terms of square footage. And this renovation does look pretty good. But the asking price seems pretty optimistic to me.

Thoughts?

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

Note the "two kitchens" -- this is a potential (illegal) two-fam masquerading as a single-fam.

The developer is definitely keen on flexibility. Not too surprising for a flip.

"The home has central AC, an extra large hot water tank,security system,many overhead lights on energy saving timers,& features found in better homes today."

LOL.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

The asking is 1.1M. I wouldn't be surprised if it went for 950k.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

I would be. At $950k that's still $500/square foot. A buyer would have a very hard time convincing a bank to lend even that sum given neighborhood comps.

578 Sterling, which is a block away in the right direction, is a slightly smaller single-fam. It's presently listed for $520k and has no takers in the past 90 days. Sure, it needs a reno, but $200k of work would turn it into a pretty posh pad, and the lot is 50% larger than 662's.

I'd peg the value of 662 at around $800k, tops.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

You are assuming the buyer is a first time buyer, and needs a large mortgage, and -hence- will not be approved.

Given your assumption, I concur with 800k.

However, if the person bought their first place in -say- 1996, and are now selling it to buy this one, they will have a lot of cash. Hence, they will not need as large of a mortgage and could pay more.

For the sellers sake, I hope there are lots of people like I describe.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

Having cash on hand is hardly an indicator of appetite to overpay for things.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

True. But people did pay incredible amounts of $ to live in The Prosepect on Classon

I was amazed....

Hopefully this seller will figure out where The Prospect buyers came from...

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

BTW, the one whose prediction ends up furthest away from the actual selling price owes the other a beer.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

Ah, but that's exactly the point. The penthouse at The Prospect sold for $1.1m, and at 2700 square feet was substantially larger than this house. That comes out to $407/square foot, and you get a brand-new building with views of Manhattan and no need to do maintenance. It also came with a parking spot.

At $407/square foot, 662 Sterling would be $773k.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

whynot_31 said:
BTW, the one whose prediction ends up furthest away from the actual selling price owes the other a beer.

You're on

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Ah, but you have to factor in the Brownstone Factor.

People love having a thick, brick wall between themselves and their neighbors. They love being able to say, "I didn't buy a condo, I bought a Brownstone. It has a back yard where the kids can play, I can garden, and we can BBQ".

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

Well, it's not a brownstone. It's a brick townhouse, with a bulging pointing.

That said, I totally agree with (and practice) the benefits of townhouse living. But the market is the market, and the comps just don't stack up.

# Posted 1 yr ago
arches
above average
Joined: Aug '07
Posts: 839

eastbloc said:
Note the "two kitchens" -- this is a potential (illegal) two-fam masquerading as a single-fam.

Where's the second kitchen?

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Someone has to have the most tricked out, move in ready house on the block.

A friend flipped a place in 2007, and the buyer remarked that he loved the house because it already had speaker and ISDN wiring installed. Cost: About $500 to install during construction.

People who have wanted a "brownstone" their entire lives, and who don't have $ to compete in PH and PS might be willing to "settle" for CH if the house is so renovated that they don't have to do anything but hire a painter. ....this might fit the bill.

Also, the two kitchen thing might make some people willing to pay a premium (such as our Orthodox friends, or someone who likes to entertain). ...For some reason, I don't the buyer will be a family with kids.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Arches-
I just got back from the open house. Both kitchens are in the same room, the second kitchen is located on the central island. Kosher ready.

The developer planned to live there, but is now selling it once it is complete. S/he converted it from a two family to a one family; it would take lots of work to make this a legal two family again.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
vaportrail
getting it
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 75

There is nice basement space not counted in the 1,900 SF. There is a large family/rec room, a full bathroom, and a small room. The total SF is closer to 2,500+ but the basement cannot be counted in the SF total.

in the thick of it

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

The more I think about this home, the more I think I would spend my fictional 1.1M elsewhere. There are a lot of row houses in PLG that are about the same price.

Granted, they are further from a commercial strip, but they are on intact blocks of owner occupied row houses.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

Looks like it's off the market -- link is dead, listing doesn't show up anymore.

# Posted 1 yr ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

662's neighbor, 664 Sterling Place, is now on the market. It apparently last changed hands for $625k in November, and was promptly re-listed at $985k FSBO.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/664-Sterling-Pl-Brooklyn-NY-11216/30592382_zpid/

I wish the seller the proverbial luck. The place has not had the (reasonably) high-end renovation 662 had, the seller is clearly not a professional, and the price per square foot for this undersized and structurally-dubious building is off the mark by at least $250k. But hey, as a neighborhood homeowner, I'll be happy if he gets it. Good for my equity.

# Posted 4 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Good money is also being made in conversions of larger buildings.

This prime building (located on EP, near the shuttle tracks) will soon change hands:

http://www.terracrg.com/setups/285-291_Eastern_Parkway.pdf

If the new landlord has the resources, they will re-do the kitchens and floors in the market rate units, and be able to get a nice return on their investment.

The restraunts, bars and declining crime rate have made more people willing to pay more money to live here.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 4 mos ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Those big buildings can be good deals or nightmares. Too risky for my blood

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 4 mos ago
vaportrail
getting it
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 75

that price seems a bit rosy. does anyone know what the market cap rate for a place like this would be? this has trouble penciling out even at 5%.

in the thick of it

# Posted 4 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Cool The Kid said:
Those big buildings can be good deals or nightmares. Too risky for my blood

Yes, you would definately want to see if the plumbing, heating and electrical have been updated.

Given that about 1/3 of the building is still not market rate, I doubt those upgrades have been made.

Vapor-
I would like to see if the numbers could justify making the market units into condos, and keeping the rent stabilized units as sponsor units.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 4 mos ago
AP
Brooklyn-born, California-grown
Joined: Mar '09
Posts: 160

The building at 291 Eastern Parkway was just renovated 4 years ago (late 2008). The apartments have new kitchens, bathrooms, laminate floors, etc.

I'm not sure if 285 EP was renovated then, as well.

# Posted 4 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Thanks AP!

BTW, the available air rights on this building seem to indicate that an additional floor could be put on the building. One could create four nice glassed penthouses, with views of the parkway and perhaps NYC.

Some of the buildings along EP, west of Washington have already done this.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 4 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

The market cap rate is just over 6%, excluding taxes and maintenance. The price is within the realm of reason for a 33-unit building, and has the potential IMO to appreciate from that significantly in the next five years.

# Posted 4 mos ago
vaportrail
getting it
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 75

Eastbloc - you don't cap gross revenue. It's got to be net revenue. Taxes are $42k, maintenance, common utilities, salary, magagement fee has to be at least another $150k. That's NOI of say, $587k. That's a 4.6% cap. There's something else going on here.

in the thick of it

# Posted 4 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Here's building on the south side of EP:

It was listed at $700k, as a home: http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/1000-union-street-brooklyn-nmuixac

Now it now is listed at $899k, as a development site:
http://www.terracrg.com/setups/1000_Union_Street.pdf

It will be a tear down. If also goes as planned, the buyer of the "residence" will make a tidy profit merely by relisting it....

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 4 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

A bunch of homes sold recently in our area:

http://bktothefullest.blogspot.com/2013/01/diary-of-wimpy-bid-610-eastern-parkway.html#comment-form

While many people focus on the folks who are buying, there are an equal number of people selling......

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 4 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Several more sales near Franklin Avenue announced today, Feb 4, 2013:

http://bktothefullest.blogspot.com/2013/02/closings-of-note-closed-in-crown-heights.html#comment-form

Needless to say, the writer of bktothefullest appears to be in the real estate industry, with a vested interest in more people buying.

...still, lots of transactions, for LOTS of money taking place.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

vaportrail said:
Eastbloc - you don't cap gross revenue. It's got to be net revenue. Taxes are $42k, maintenance, common utilities, salary, magagement fee has to be at least another $150k. That's NOI of say, $587k. That's a 4.6% cap. There's something else going on here.

The 285 - 291 EP site is still on the market:

Here is the realtor's pitch:

I wanted to give you an update on the 33 unit multifamily building we’re marketing at 285-291 Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn.

The fully occupied building consists of 33 apartments with the ability to add one basement unit (with a letter of no objection) as well as air-rights to add over 19,000 SF. Some of the 2 bedroom units can be converted into 3 bedrooms as they become vacant. With only 7 rent-stabilized units and 25 free-market units, there’s an opportunity for future condo conversion or the possibility for the addition of a roof deck.

The property has a projected annual gross revenue is $912K and the Projected NOI is $752K, which represents a pro-forma cap-rate of just shy of 6%.

The Eastern Parkway corridor continues to see growth and new development. Some new construction condominium projects within blocks of 285-291 Eastern Parkway include the Park Union and Richard Meier on Prospect Park buildings where condos are selling above $1,000/SF. Brooklyn residential rent growth over the last 3 years was approx. 10% year over year, out-performing Manhattan.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

664 Sterling is still for sale. It's now with Elliman (no longer FSBO) and the price has gone _up_ despite no value having been added since it was purchased in November for $625k.

http://www.trulia.com/property/3111078443-664-Sterling-Pl-Brooklyn-NY-11216

# Posted 2 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

They are able to expect $1.1M for 664 Sterling, because nearby properties, like this one at 633 St John's Place are "moving" for $1.6M.

...633 St. John's is in contract at that price.

http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/633-st-johns-place-brooklyn-canzgex

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

Holy cow! 633 St. John's was that shell that had the "Closed by order of NYPD" for the longest time. It sold for $215,000 in October last year.

How do you know it's actually under contract at that price? I've got a windfall of equity if comps are really that high around here.

# Posted 2 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

633 St. John's has NO YARD. I mean, it's like 20 square feet. It's a short lot. It practically abuts a much larger apartment building on Franklin.

There's no WAY it's selling for $1.6m. I just can't believe it.

# Posted 2 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

Eastbloc » How do you know it's actually under contract at that price?

a. the Elliman listing says "contract signed"

b. This site is raving about it: http://bktothefullest.blogspot.com/2013/03/never-truly-for-sale-633-st-johns-place.html. Note, bktothefullest hypes Crown Heights because the publisher is in the Real Estate Industry. However, the information is solid.

Now a house listed over $1.5M in Crown Heights hits the market in contract already. And just a year ago some of you still thought it was time to chase this price in prime Park Slope. That's right, 633 St. Johns Place is just off of the bustling Franklin Avenue, and was never really available to the public unless, perhaps, you were one of the pocket buyers of these brokers. And who can blame them? REBNY obligates them to at least pretend to market it. But if you come to market in contract, the fix is pretty much in. This isn't the first time we've seen Elliman do this.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 901

I believe it's signed. I just wonder what it's signed _at_.

18 months ago, the very best comps for a two-fam in the nabe would have been around $800k in move-in condition, without some of the quirks of this property (being on the corner, oddly shaped, no yard).

I have a hard time imagining cash buyers at anything close to ask, or banks financing the sale given comps. So contract or no contract, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We'll see where this goes on the record.

# Posted 2 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

How about a brownstone on Albany Ave, near Pacific Ave. It has a C of O for 7 rental units, is being delivered vacant, and needs a gut rehab.

Given the size of the building, I assumed it was configured as a SRO.

...they are asking $1.2M.

http://ww.terracrg.com/setups/119_Albany_Avenue.pdf

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 wks ago
NothinLikeABklynGirl
since back in the day
Joined: Jun '11
Posts: 68

Know anything about 110 Albany Avenue, across the street? It's got scaffolding and an affordable housing sign.

# Posted 3 wks ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

pre-scaffolding:

Ah, that building. The above photo shows everything but the first floors as being boarded up.

I am pretty sure I saw a HPD logo on it somewhere. Which means that the city ended up in possession of it, and is now using a private contractor to renovate it.

The process is somewhat complex, but to make a long story short, it will then be sold by the city, with the stipulation that buyer keep the units be affordable...

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/developers/hpd-owned.shtml

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 wks ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

What is considered affordable....

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 3 wks ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

HPD defines it as per Area Median Income. It then has lotteries... Click on the "Annual Gross Income" tab to find out what income range you must be in, and how much you will be charged in rent:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/apartment/lotteries.shtml

Note: The income ranges and rent charged, vary by neighbrhood.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 wks ago