Hey so I was in my brandnew apartment and I heard what I thought was a gunshot coming around Park and Nostrand Avenue. I'm pretty sure it wasn't fire works and more and more cops and emergancey vechiles keep arriving.
I've only been living in Crown heights for a couple weeks so I 'm a little worried. Is this a frequent occuarnce? Is there a lot of gang or other violent crime in the area? Forgive me if this has been posted before.
I guess I should have put this would be about 6pm not 6 am.
Go to spotcrime.com
Then select Brooklyn NY, and a date range and it will pretty accurately tell you how often shootings that injure people occur in bklyn. Zoom in on the map to see Crown Heights.
I wouldn't sweat it. You're more likely to be accidentally shot by police than by the kids playing with guns in the street, and yet you probably don't get nervous when you walk past a cop.
P.S. it's almost never fireworks. Both are illegal, but it's easier to buy a gun than an M-80 in New York City.
newguy88: Yeah, it was probably a gunshot. http://gothamist.com/map/ can sometimes tell you more, but it's not the most exact and can be off with all kinds of details like the location. But if you're curious it's always worth checking out. Chances are pretty good you'll be just fine. In the big picture, it doesn't happen that often that the gunshots you hear result in someone getting shot.
eastbloc, you know what makes me really nervous is when you see cops/army guys in the subway with semi's. What the hell situation in a subway is going to be improved by that kind of weaponry? Especially now that we know cops can't aim for crap (ESB fiasco).
Hey,
Everybody thanks for the replies. I looked on crimespot.com and their have been a few shootings in the past year. But mostly west of New York which I know to be a bad area. My neighborhood looks ok. I think as long as I pay attention and use good sense I should be ok. Thanks for the reassurances!
I waled down the block and the NYPD was there in full force including detectives talking to some of my neighbors. It must have been a shooting even though its not up on spotcrime.com or gothamist. The NYPD wouldn't roll out like that for a firecracker.
Thanks for the reassurances!
It's gotten a lot safer than the past. I moved to CH 8 years ago and in that time have witnessed 2 shootings and I still hear shots from time. Violence still exists but it's usually drug/turf related or maybe some jackass firing into the air. So nobody is really out to shoot you if you aren't selling on their block. It seems I've heard about more muggings lately but I only heard that from this forum so who knows. My advice, if you want it: just be friendly with your neighbors, learn their names, tell them yours, let them know you're decent person. Most likely they are too. Welcome.
Yep...another person shot last night. Don't worry, summer is almost over.
I'm not too worried about the Colt AR-toting cops. If anything, I'd be supportive of that being a standard police weapon, since rifles and any two-handed firearms are much easier to shoot accurately than pistols.
By the way, all standard-issue NYPD weapons are "semis", with the exception of pump-action shotguns. This has been the case since revolvers were phased out.
ParadeRest said:
Yep...another person shot last night. Don't worry, summer is almost over.
Although summers in CH are usually pretty bloody, I was optimistic this one would have been less so.
This weekend will be the real test.
Paraderest-
Wouldn't it be great if we could just solve this whole
pesky crime/poverty/dysfunction thing with criminology lectures?
The PhD's could make recommendations that worked, we could have then be given the ability to enact them.
Unicorns could be real...
“Reviewing the Evidence on the Effects of Focused Deterrence Strategies on Crime"Please join us when Anthony A. Braga, professor in the School of Criminal Justice at Rutgers, speaks on new problem-oriented policing frameworks, known as "focused deterrence strategies." A number of U.S. police departments have experimented with “focused deterrence strategies”—policing frameworks that target a specified crime problem within a high-crime-intensity area—to prevent gang violence and group-involved violence generally. These strategic approaches have also been applied to other crime problems, such as overt drug markets and individual repeat offenders. Professor Braga will discuss his meta-analysis of and findings about the efficacy of these approaches.
Anthony A. Braga is a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at Rutgers University and a senior research fellow in the Program in Criminal Justice Policy and Management at Harvard University. He is also a member of the University of Chicago Crime Lab and a senior fellow in the Chief Justice Earl Warren Institute on Law and Social Policy at the University of California, Berkeley. He is currently the president and an elected fellow of the Academy of Experimental Criminology. Dr. Braga’s research involves collaborating with criminal justice, social service, and community-based organizations to address illegal access to firearms, reduce gang and group-involved violence, and control crime hot spots. He has co-authored and co-edited several books, most recently Policing Problem Places: Crime Hot Spots and Effective Prevention (Oxford University Press, 2010).
The lecture is part of the Neil A. Weiner Research Speaker Series at the Vera Institute of Justice.
https://www.z2systems.com/np/clients/vera/event.jsp?event=97
Advice for the new guy to the hood - don't where any pasely ties or blue dress shirts on that block. Those are gang colors and you don't want to be mistakenly targeted.
Mistaken?
You mean those guys I see dressed in pasely ties at 1 Financial Center aren't gangsters? (kidding)
Evidently a young man got shot after an altercation. I live near that intersection, so I got a bunch of texts from worried neighbors wondering if all was okay (which is comforting). From what I heard on the block, the victim was sitting up and talking, so hopefully it wasn't too serious.
I wish that particular group of young men would age out of "the life". They're the only thing standing between us and a quiet block!
adobogado said:
Advice for the new guy to the hood - don't where any pasely ties or blue dress shirts on that block. Those are gang colors and you don't want to be mistakenly targeted.
There is a gang that really wears blue dress shirts? What is the gang made of low level mangers at an office? 
homeowner said:
Evidently a young man got shot after an altercation. I live near that intersection, so I got a bunch of texts from worried neighbors wondering if all was okay (which is comforting). From what I heard on the block, the victim was sitting up and talking, so hopefully it wasn't too serious.I wish that particular group of young men would age out of "the life". They're the only thing standing between us and a quiet block!
The block seems kinda of cool like that. I think I know the exact people your talking about. If the NYPD was to actually start enforcing the noise ordinances I feel that it would help a lot with both the safety and appearance of the block. I was really happy to see the increased cop presence after the shooting. I'm disappointed that they cleared out of here today. I think we really really could use more cops in the area. Do you think calling the precinct and asking for more patrols would have any effect?
Hate to bump this but I'm really freaking out here. I really wish this whole parade and shooting thing had happened after I'd been in the neighborhood a bit longer. But has any one ever called a precinct to request additional patrols in a neighborhood?
How's that going to help? People aren't shooting at each other because there isn't enough police presence, they've got very specific reasons why they want to do it. You're not at all on their radar. You have nothing to worry about, aside from being caught in the crossfire. And statistically, as someone else pointed out, you're more likely to get hit by an out-of-control car that ends up with you pinned against a building.
newguy88 said:
Hate to bump this but I'm really freaking out here. I really wish this whole parade and shooting thing had happened after I'd been in the neighborhood a bit longer. But has any one ever called a precinct to request additional patrols in a neighborhood?
Put it in writing and address it to the Police Commisioner. Unfortunately, you can't get blood from a stone and the city refuses to hire more cops. Staffing levels are dangerously low already and there is a high number of officers eligible for retirement that were hired under the "safe streets" program.
I agree with eastbloc, as a person who isnt involved in the drug trade, your risk of being shot is low. "Low", of course, is a relative term.
Welcome to the neighborhood. We haven't done a meet-up for newbies in a while, but I'll probably set up one in Sept.
Thanks guys. It sounds like any shootings aren't muggings gone bad. Which is what I was worried about.
I used to live in Lower Manhattan and we had cops actually get out of their cars and walk down the streets while on patrol. Plus more drive bys of cop cars and that was in a very safe neighborhood. I know the distributions of cops across the Burroughs has been something that the NYPD has received some heat for.
Newguy88, I'm curious since you've posted in a few of the forums about how you are or were freaking out, but surely you researched about the area you were moving to before actually moving right?
The Psycho-ologist
big A little a Bouncing B the system may have got you but it won't get me.
Joined: Jan '08
Posts: 439
whynot_31 said:
I agree with eastbloc, as a person who isnt involved in the drug trade, your risk of being shot is low. "Low", of course, is a relative term.Welcome to the neighborhood. We haven't done a meet-up for newbies in a while, but I'll probably set up one in Sept.
So do you have to live in PH to go to the meet up or can we lowly Sunset Park folks attend?
Regarding more cops, I'm not exactly anti-police presence, but I don't equate them with less gunfighting in Crown Heights... After last year's West Indian Day Parade, the NYPD responded to an altercation on my block by firing back 70 shots at a guy who took one or two shots at his target. An innocent woman was killed and I never learned whose gun it came from, but the police response was completely out of control and put me on guard against THEM and not the real bad guys.
What is an appropriate police response to a gun battle between two officers and a perp who just shot somebody else...a gun battle that left two police officers wounded and two other people dead?
Psychologist-
All are welcome.
Paraderest-
I think everyone (including the police) would like to respond to a gun battle with super powers. I.E. Every shot would hit the the target, in a way that eliminates the threat posed by the subject, but does not actually do any long term damage to the subject.
....You know, like in the movies.
Of course, super powers do not exist, and anyone who has ever fired a handgun knows that they are loud, inaccurate, cumbersome weapons under the BEST of circumstances, such as at the range when no one is shooting at you.
Official statistics on the accuracy/inaccuracy of firearms discharge by the NYPD can be found here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/afdr_20111116.pdf
Until better weapons and ideal shooting conditions are created, I think that rational, intelligent people (civilians as well as police officers) asks that MOS do their best once they have made the decision that deadly force is necessary to protect their own life or someone else's.
In the mili-seconds that you may have:
- Use both sights.
- Breathe.
- Get in a solid stance.
- Ask yourself whether a fellow officer is positioned to eliminate the threat with more accuracy, and less chance of collateral damage.
- Shoot for center body mass until threat is eliminated.
Not for nothing, but the bystander on Park last year appeared to be shot by police, who as usual unloaded their magazines.
I just can't see the rationale for using so many rounds. I realize it's how they're trained, but I question the wisdom of that training. Cops should be expected to make every shot count, not to lay down suppressive fire.
I'd like to think I would make every shot count under such circumstances, but even then I would have several problems.
For example, the problem of over penetration (a shot passing through the target and into another person).
Also, when someone is shot, it takes a short period for them to fall to the ground. In that period, the shooter (in this case an officer) is not aware that s/he has hit them.
Hence, regardless of how one is trained, shots are often fired in that period until the person is on the ground and no longer able to be a threat. Needless to say, it is very dangerous to be present during such incidences; simply by sitting on your stoop you could end up being shot.
Gunshots can be fatal.
I'll be the first to admit I know exactly diddly-squat about weapons, and guns in particular. But with all the technology in this world are there really no tranquilizer gun type weapons that could be used to "shoot" people with that would incapacitate them but not kill them, as well as anyone who might be standing near them? With all the weapons research why doesn't anyone seem to be working on non-lethal options for the average street gun+police situation?
There are lots of such weapons, but -sadly- they are rarely in the hands of the officers who are first on the scene, nor are they effective against someone who is imminently using a gun against you or another person.
Tazers, bean bag shot guns, batons, pepper spray, rubber bullets, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-lethal_weapon
I guess I was envisioning something like a small, rapid-fire dart gun that would carry tranq drugs that would very quickly knock out whoever it hit. I can just see someone being allergic to the drugs though, and then they would go into anaphilactic (sp?) shock and would then sue the NYPD once they were given an epi-pen shot, and heaven forbid they then are allergic to that....
Sadly, unless you are in a tank, someone with a pistol presents an imminent lethal threat, and must often be met with lethal force.
The problem with tasers is that they're single-shot weapons, at least the ones I'm familiar with. Miss, or find that the recipient is resistant due to emotional or chemical factors, and it doesn't work out.
Also, no LEO is going to pull a taser in response to an apparently armed adversary. You're going to pull your standard service sidearm, and make sure your opponent is not capable of further resistance.
What I don't get is why the training says to empty your magazine once lethal force needs to be used. Maybe this made sense in the days of six-shot revolvers, but given that police often use double-stack automatics, it seems like overkill. No pun intended. And it would seemingly leave the officers with nothing left to confront another threat should one manifest itself. Why not snap off a few rounds and re-assess whether the target requires more shooting?
The video of the ESB shooting last week was especially telling in just how much NYPD errs on the side of safety for themselves at the expense of their environment. They pumped the guy full of lead, and he was very clearly unconscious, but you can see on the video that they approached him as if he was a lurking crocodile, ready to spring back at them. This in spite of the fact that he never pulled the trigger at the police, though he did appear to brandish his weapon at them.
Again, I'm not blaming the individuals, but I do question the appropriateness of their training.
tateinbk said:
I guess I was envisioning something like a small, rapid-fire dart gun that would carry tranq drugs that would very quickly knock out whoever it hit.
Great idea, but nothing like this exists. "Stopping power" is generally estimated in the amount of force you can bring to bear on the body of your subject. Even shooting a barrage of small-caliber rounds such as .22LR has been found not to stop an armed and determined assailant whether or not direct hits are made.
Any chemical agent designed to tranquilize or otherwise subdue an offender would take even longer to circulate the bloodstream and become effective.
When someone is afraid for their life, even the most rigorous training is often not applied.
...instinct and emotion take over.
That said, I am confident the police would welcome more weapons and lethal force training. It is a complex problem that involves a shortage of resources.
Newguy, Assemblyman Karim Camara actually lives on the block where the shooting took place. Rather than approaching the police directly, it may be a better use of your time to try to get the Assemblyman to advocate for more police presence. I have a feeling the reaction to him would be slightly different than the police response to you.
Police are not trained to empty their magazines. They are trained to shoot to stop the threat. They don't "lay down suppresive fire", shoot people in the knee to stop them, match deadly physical force with less force than their foe...
Sight alignment and stance mean crap in most encounters. In a rapid draw and fire situation you will only be using the front sight and quite possibly shot while moving.
A police officer will continue to cover his target as he approaches a downed adversary until the firearm is removed and the perp handcuffed. Yes, they will handcuff a seriously injured or even dead perp.
Hollow points are less likely to exit the body and that is part of the reason why they are used by law enforcement.
I would add that I believe it is unreasonable for the public to expect anything different.
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