In the spotlight: local methadone clinics

Brooklynian » Forum » Crown Heights and Prospect Lefferts Gardens »

In the spotlight: local methadone clinics

Share this!

whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2011/12/crackdown-coming-to-two-local-methadone-clinics/#disqus_thread

...I think that real change will only come in the unlikely event that CH can find a neighborhood that actually wants a methadone clinic.

I wonder how long Interfaith's lease on that site is, because a savvy politician might be able to close it if they could find another social service program to take it's place. Western CH now might have enough power to start whittling away at the bottom tier of local social service providers....

I've never met someone who isn't secretly a NIMBY.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles/4494/mixed-evidence-of-methadone-crackdown

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
rezist
getting it
Joined: Oct '07
Posts: 138

Very unfortunate. The potential for methadone abuse is very high, hence the black market sales and low rate of recovery for those on it. There are currently two other options that (as I am aware) have less abuse potential. LAAM and Bupernorphine.

Removing supports and aides for the disease of addiction is very dangerous and is always detrimental to the community as well as the addicts.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

Removing supports and aides for the disease of addiction is very dangerous and is always detrimental to the community as well as the addicts.

Of course, those against the clinics argue that the community has changed, and state that the clinics now serve a population that comes from largely outside the community. (Hereafter referred to as Scenario 1).

Until we have info on where the patients live, we can't say that they are wrong. However, we can say that while no one wants a methadone clinic near them, it is absolutely brutal for a community to have to house both the addicts and the clinics. (Scenario 2)

Scenario 1 rarely lasts long, because the neighbors effectively close the clinic.

Scenario 2, on the other hand, often lasts a long time because it creates a ghetto in which only those devoid of power (and desire) live in a community.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
tateinbk
above average
Joined: Jun '11
Posts: 503

What is the worst quality that a methadone clinic brings to a neighborhood? Is it the likelihood that patients will try and sell methadone after they leave? If this is the case, wouldn't it make the most sense to put clinics in the most affluent areas of the city where the residents are least likely to purchase the stuff? For example, a guy could try hawking as much stuff as he wanted outside the Park Slope Co-op, but is unlikely to get all that many, if any buyers. Without the reward of making sales I would guess the amount of people trying to sell their stuff would go down. If nothing else, it would make sales more obvious and catchable.

Every time a crime went down it would get blamed on the patients (as was recently suggested about Phoenix House and P.H.). But would this really be a risk? Do methadone users also have a higher likelihood of robbing and/or maiming people?

# Posted 1 yr ago
tateinbk
above average
Joined: Jun '11
Posts: 503

-And I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm genuinely curious.

# Posted 1 yr ago
rezist
getting it
Joined: Oct '07
Posts: 138

As far as scenario two goes... there's one around the corner from me as well as one in union sq. that I'm near frequently. Other than groups of people congregating and smoking outside of the locations (which is a pain in the ass) I haven't encountered any problems.

The real issue is for treatment centers to stop using methadone, which can keep one high as hell for many hours when an individual takes enough of it. There are medications that do not have that effect. Dispensing these would reduce the resale of doses. Although to avoid or "cure" withdrawal addicts would buy ANY opioid (or opioid analog.)

Scenario one is difficult because not having addiction treatment services available is a recipe for disaster.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

tate-
As I understand it, a purchased dose or "spit" of methadone won't get you high, but it will keep someone who is presently using opiates that get you high (heroin, prescriptions, oxy, synthetics etc.) you from having to go through withdrawal. If you score a lot of it, you can get high....

So, folks who are about to go into to withdrawal tend to gravitate toward methadone clinics despite not being enrolled because they are confident they can buy a spit.

Likewise, not everyone who is enrolled in the methadone clinics remains abstinent from the "real" opiates that do get you high. The principal reason for not remaining solely on methadone is that although it takes away the withdrawal, opiate users miss the high of the real stuff.

So, we have two phenomena:
a. Active users of opiates continue to remain enrolled in the methadone clinic so they can sell the spits for money to buy opiates to get high.

b. People who have opiates to sell know that methadone clinics are good place to make a sale.

As a result, those seeking drugs (or money from drugs...) follow the clinics no matter where they go, and putting a clinic in a good neighborhood is not going to stop patients from selling the methadone.

Likewise, putting a clinic in a good neighborhood is not going to stop sellers and customers of methadone, oxy and heroin from gravitating toward it.

For good reason, no one wants a methadone clinic nearby. However, the clinics do effectively keep large numbers of people stable on a substance.

The clinics are sort of like a homeless shelters in that everyone wants the cities to provide them, but no one wants them to be located in their 'hood. The clinics are unlike shelters in that they are small and thus easier be relocated to a less powerful neighborhood.

Tish James and other politicians are well aware that the demographics of their districts have changed, and they now perceive themselves as having the power to get rid of clinics in their districts AND as having a group of constituents that demands they do so. Folks who own property and vote have her attention....

rezist-
I completely agree that clinics for persons addicted to opiates are needed: We live in a world in which people are going to continue to use and get addicted to opiates.

Re: Methadone. I believe that the alternatives to methadone have draw backs such as increased cost, that prevent them from being implemented.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
stacey
rocking it
Joined: Mar '05
Posts: 3,524

I grew up in a neighborhood where there was a methadone clinic (it was on the corner of Bergen and Smith). Most of the patients were local people who were known to most of us in the neighborhood. They also had no qualms about snitching (i.e., when a neighbor had a TV stolen he asked the people outside the clinic and they gave him a description and area of someone trying to sell a TV).

They never bothered me and matter of fact (and I know this sounds terrible) we used to watch them to see how low they could teeter over without falling.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

This site lists methadone clinics in Brooklyn and (with the exception of clinics located at hospitals), most clinics already seem to be located in low income neighborhoods.

It is silly to think that CH and Fort Greene are not going to attempt to use their new found power to get rid of these clinics, but it is anyone's guess whether Tish James and the others will be successful at forcing the local clinics out.

It is likely a matter of:

1. Getting the police to bother the addicts so much that they choose a different clinic, causing the present clinic to be financially weak.

2. Finding a non-profit that everyone loves (such as a senior center) to fill the space, so we are not accused of being against social services.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,014

I too work near the Union Sq clinic. There are tons of addicts that congregate in the neighborhod Starbucks as well as in Union Sq and Madison Sq parks during the day that are either waiting to go get their stuff, selling their stuff or hustling with their fellow addicts. Clearly none of these people live in the neighborhood, and like the 9-5 folks they pretty much disappear from the area by the evening rush hour.

Why can't there be a methadone clinic on 7th Avenue in Park Slope, or Downtown on Fulton Street instead of on residential blocks in minoriy neighborhoods.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

I would imagine that the clinic on Union Sq is there because it is a relic from when addicts did live locally; they used to live in large numbers in the parks, on the street, and in SROs, and the flophouses that used to dominate the Bowery Ave.

Given how much the area has changed over the last 20 years, it strikes me that it would be nearly impossible to open a NEW clinic in Union Sq.

Has CH and FG changed enough that these clinics are now relics of the neighborhood's past?

For racial, aesthetic and class reasons, we live in a society that tends toward Scenario 2. I think we can all admit that the argument that "it is convenient and economic for services to be available near where patients live" is merely cover for "we have the power, and we are going to put this clinic that no one wants in your neighborhood, not ours".

...for these reasons, I imagine it would be politically impossible for a clinic to open a location 7th Ave in the Slope. I also imagine that it would be fiscally impossible, because commercial rents are so much higher in wealthy areas.

Trash depots, water treatment plants and other services no one wants are often located in poor, minority neighborhoods for similar reasons.

Tish will likely state that she would like the clinics to remain open, but have none of the side effects that are inherent parts of providing such programs.

To which I respond, "I would like to go to the beach, but I don't want to get sand in my swimsuit..."

Make no mistake about it: No one wants these programs and anyone with power would use it to get rid of them. ...it is just that Tish and everyone else can't state our real motivations publicly.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

Here's the OASAS data on the Methadone clinic operated by Interfaith that is located in CH, at 800 Bergen St.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

A Manhattan version of the same story:

http://www.dnainfo.com/20111209/downtown/methadone-clinic-drops-bid-move-downtown-following-local-opposition

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
Jenee
I have arrived!
Joined: May '11
Posts: 66

Not sure if this is related to this post, but I have been noticing people twice now at different times in the past few weeks nodding out in the street. What's the deal?

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

The local scene is actually much better than it has been.

To get a sense of how active your local scene is, befriend a bodega owner that is open 24 hours. Those guys see the underbelly of NY.

In this case, ask him about what % of his candy and soda sales go to the local opiate addicts who come in craving sugar at all hours.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
Jenee
I have arrived!
Joined: May '11
Posts: 66

Wow! Really? Never seen people nodding out around here before, but maybe I was just too busy to notice or care back then.

I always worry the bodegas are there 24 hours for people selling other illicit substances.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

Not to be trite, but the more you look for opiate users and sales, the more you will see. Heroin remains in demand in NYC, regardless of the neighborhood you live in.

Here's a somewhat recent story about a Park Slope/Windsor terrace heroin dealer. ...but, yeah, you might see more folks in CH doing the "opiate nod out", and less news coverage of the busts.

Like many drugs of abuse, addiction to opiates and their synthetics tend to make one poor pretty quickly; addicts end up more concerned about getting high than paying rent, or pursing excellent performance that results in a raise at work. ...and, more often than not, living in the cheapest apartment they can find.

Whether the politicians like it or not, I think there continues to be a need for methadone maintenance in CH.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

This round of battle between the Brooklyn clinics in neighborhoods of increasing power and wealth vs the methadone clinics has now come to a close.

Results:

As expected, the politicians were not able to make the clinics move elsewhere. However, they were able to implement a written code of conduct (MOU), that they will no doubt find violated as time goes on .....here is an article on the Brooklyn agreement, which they state was signed back in Dec.

http://faballiance.org/news/public-safety-methadone

Don't worry, the politicians and activists will keep at this issue....

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 yr ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,072

Over the weekend, a guy reportedly died from a overdose of opiates at the little park located where Washington Ave meets Atlantic.

http://prospectheights.patch.com/articles/man-found-dead-on-park-bench

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 10 mos ago

RSS feed for this topic

Welcome! Please log in to post, or register a new account!

Brooklynian

Brooklynian » Forum » Crown Heights and Prospect Lefferts Gardens »

In the spotlight: local methadone clinics

Brooklynian » Neighborhood Message Boards » Crown Heights and Prospect Lefferts Gardens

Brooklinks

Members Online