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I'm currently considering a great apartment on Lincoln Place (new construction), but I'm wondering about the neighborhood. My wife and I would be moving from Manhattan. I know Brklyn in general is different than Manhattan in that you just need to be smart about where and when you're walking, but I just don't know enough about this block. I've had friends say that some surrounding blocks are pretty sketchy, but Is it safe here for a young couple? We have a dog and will need to be out walking it on a daily basis. I also travel and work late on a regular basis. I want to make sure my wife is safe at home by herself. Thanks in advance for any advice.
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I've lived on that block since July 2009. I'm a 30-something woman and I feel pretty comfortable. I moved from Park Slope. I handle myself the same way I did in my old 'hood: if I'm coming home really late at night I ride my bike or get a car service. That part of the block can be REALLY loud, though. I'm on the 5th floor of my building and when the kids across the street are playing, it sounds like they're up here with me if I have my windows open. (I assume you'll come to visit the block at different times of the day to get a feel for what it's like to be around here at night. Franklin stays busy, the side streets not so much. This location is great, though, in terms of it's accessibility to the park, an express subway stop, and quick bike ride to Downtown Brooklyn and into Lower Manhattan.)
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Yeah, definitely planning on visiting at different times of the day to get a feel. When you say it can be loud, is it just the kids playing that are loud? Seems like the proximity to express trains, park, museum, etc. are all great. Thanks for your comments.
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bootstrap » Yeah, definitely planning on visiting at different times of the day to get a feel. When you say it can be loud, is it just the kids playing that are loud? Seems like the proximity to express trains, park, museum, etc. are all great. Thanks for your comments.
Are you buying or renting? Is it the new bldg right on the shuttle tracks? The block is easy to park on if you have a car. The train is always running and if you have to transfer Atlantic ave makes it pretty easy to get anywhere. Even w construction and repairs 2/3 or 4/5 is running if one of them is out. Easy to get to the airport LIRR is at Atlantic also so you can be on the Air train pretty fast. The block is pretty quiet . There are a few drug dealers that use Lincoln as their runway. They stage in the 2 bodegas and the chicken place on the corner of Lincoln and Franklin and make the exchange through the car window or get in the customers car and get out right in front of your apt bldg. They walk quickly back to the corner to resume business. There is good coffee to be had at Brooklyn,Glass Shop and Pulp and Bean. All have similar products and prices and good service. There are 3 grocery stores within 3 blocks(Assoc is across EParkway) Assoc is cheapest. The pitfall of the area is the noise generated by 95S and Franklin Park and the shuttle. Franklin Pk is a nice place to get a beer and even read a book w a stroller. Food is ever improving and w the economy the way it is almost everybody will deliver here.The new building on Claussen does appear to going up at a snails pace.The building that I think you are speaking of was built by a private funded contractor maybe w a religious funding source...It does make a difference. He appears to be using private money and has been constructing the building at a snails pace also. When contractors use bank financing they get progressive payments so the builder and the bank both have a reason to hurry up and get their money from one another. If you are buying I would look closely at other property that uses the train tracks as a property line. When you use private money you can extend the bid process for ions and always use the cheapest sub. Also when you drag you feet somebodies cousin is always good at one of the trades needed to complete your building, the contractor always gets the best price but the buyer may not always get the best quality and technique. The bldg doesn't appear to be any better or worse than the next. To play the numbers you want to go with a builder who has...built more units. Good luck but anything you choose will be ok.. there are loads empty new apts in the area -
bootstrap » Yeah, definitely planning on visiting at different times of the day to get a feel. When you say it can be loud, is it just the kids playing that are loud?
Yep, the kids playing and adults congregating on the street. (I don't know if the late night adult LOUD talking is due to activity on Franklin (like folks leaving 95 South), but I imagine sleeping without interruption is difficult for light sleepers on this block. I don't hear noise from the bars themselves. As for the noise from the shuttle train, it's not bothersome at all. But, again, I'm a few flights up from the first floor. -
If u don't mind some indirect violence + crime it should be fine. Only real bad parts of that neighborhood are the drug dealers + their customers, and the increasingly restless + somewhat dangerous teenagers. But there are a lot of cool young people and things to do, and of course the shuttle really helps with transportation. Consider though that you could probably find a *slightly* more expensive but equally spacious & well appointed place in the UES/UWS though, with basically none of the crime....[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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There's no crime on the UES or UWS?? The area is fine. Some loser dealers in sagging jeans hanging out but it's a great location to everything and everywhere. New shops opening on Franklin. You and your wife will love it. Please move in so another nice couple can add to the improvement of the neighborhood. And as for the dog you are right near the park...
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TheBurgerking » There's no crime on the UES or UWS?? The area is fine. Some loser dealers in sagging jeans hanging out but it's a great location to everything and everywhere. New shops opening on Franklin. You and your wife will love it. Please move in so another nice couple can add to the improvement of the neighborhood. And as for the dog you are right near the park...
Never said there wasn't any crime, but comparatively there's a lot less crime.... Party doesn't really start till north of 96 St I think that map says a lot Just trying to give the OP a realistic picture of the neighborhood... ppl writing off murder, break-ins, anti-white crime and drug trafficking as nothing to be concerned about just seems a little silly to me It's not terrible but you can def do better for the $$$$$$[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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The area surrounding 86 St / Lex subway station has *always* been a hotspot for theft. Lotsa commuters (and museum tourists, during the day) with lotsa shiny iPhones and purses, and a huge 3rd Avenue getaway route. It is absolutely no different than the wider GAP area in this respect.i extend my battery life by turning down the brightness
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jeffrey » The area surrounding 86 St / Lex subway station has *always* been a hotspot for theft. Lotsa commuters and museum tourists with lotsa shiny iPhones and purses, and a huge 3rd Avenue getaway route. It is absolutely no different than the GAP area in this respect.
While the muggings might be more "immediately relevant" to people moving into CH, I would rather that than murders, breakins, and open drug markets, even if I'm not directly involved. Plus you have Costco just uptown and a generally higher quality of life. No area is gonna be perfect, but there are a lot of areas that don't have the crazy amount of crime CH does.[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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Yeah, was just speaking to the theft part, to clarify that UES is by no means "with none of the crime." UES has the same theft and mugging problems as any other target-rich environment in NYC. But I hear ya on the heavier stuff.i extend my battery life by turning down the brightness
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Thanks for all the comments. Just to be clear, we're coming from the UWS (below 96th street), hence my questions. In that respect, this would be a significant leap for us neighborhood wise. UWS prime is probably one of the safest neighborhoods in Manhattan (for a few reasons). You can walk around at 3am without a concern. What I'm trying to get a handle on is what are the thresholds in this neighborhood and whether it's worth it. Obviously, it's much different and I wouldn't expect to casually stroll around CH late at night! I do have friends that live in the area, and I understand what those differences will be. BTW, in no way can you find comparable space and amenities in the UWS (can't really speak for the UES). Real estate is super expensive in that area. Most of what you're paying for there is the neighborhood itself. Thanks all.
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bootstrap » BTW, in no way can you find comparable space and amenities in the UWS (can't really speak for the UES). Real estate is super expensive in that area. Most of what you're paying for there is the neighborhood itself. Thanks all.
Right. What you pay for a 2 bdrm in CH will get you a very small studio in the UWS. One of my co-workers is looking there now and even the rent stabilized studio she found is $1500 a month. UES is cheaper, but not by much. Most of the housing stock is pretty far from the subway, the crowd is either older or young and frat boy like. If you're considering CH for living, UES doesn't seem like it would be anything close to your type of neighborhood. -
bootstrap » Thanks for all the comments. Just to be clear, we're coming from the UWS (below 96th street), hence my questions. In that respect, this would be a significant leap for us neighborhood wise. UWS prime is probably one of the safest neighborhoods in Manhattan (for a few reasons). You can walk around at 3am without a concern. What I'm trying to get a handle on is what are the thresholds in this neighborhood and whether it's worth it. Obviously, it's much different and I wouldn't expect to casually stroll around CH late at night! I do have friends that live in the area, and I understand what those differences will be. BTW, in no way can you find comparable space and amenities in the UWS (can't really speak for the UES). Real estate is super expensive in that area. Most of what you're paying for there is the neighborhood itself. Thanks all.
I would look across the park before I looked across the water TBH. CH is cheap for a reason. I would check out Boerum Hill, Greenpoint and a few other places with less dots on the homicide map. $200-300 more a month gets you a much higher standard of living.[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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Cool the Kid AKA "Anti Crown Heights" Time to move to suburbs! Bootstrap, this is a multi ethnic and racial community which has seen vast improvements during this "economic downfall", it will no doubt continue to improve and become safer and more desirable in the coming years. If you want to be apart of this than welcome. The Corner of Lincoln and Classon is undergoing a nice change. There is NO utopia in NYC free of crime.
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there's been an absolutely incredible amount of housing (over 5000 units!) built between Vandy and Franklin over the last 5 years, some of it still in construction. Granted, some of it is ugly and over priced. That said, I'm optimistic enough to believe that even if the units aren't sold as condos (as originally planned), they will be finished to the degree that they can be rented out at market rates. All of this new housing will continue to bring progress to the neighborhood. ...and much of it was built without displacing any present residents, we just lost a lot of garages and vacant lots. Bootstrap- Make no mistake, It'll be a big change from eating at the Broadway Hot and Crusty after going to Barnes and Noble. So far, the area continues to change for the better. ....it may never become the UWS, but it is slowly becoming less dangerous.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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whynot_31 » So far, the area continues to change for the better. ....it may never become the UWS, but it is slowly becoming less dangerous.
Nor would you want it to be, would you? I'll take a little bit of the unsafe to avoid homogenization.If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
there are lots of areas in the city that are both safe and diverse. Large areas of Queens come to mind. ....employed and educated neighbors of every variety. ...some low income, some high income, yada, yada, yada. Nostrand and Franklin seem to be surrounded by streets of homeowners and hard working folks ....it's kind of amazing to me the Avenues are just now feeling the pressures. ...those dumpsters have been parked on the street in front of the various brownstones being renovated for 10 years now.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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ntfool » [quote="whynot_31"]So far, the area continues to change for the better. ....it may never become the UWS, but it is slowly becoming less dangerous.
Nor would you want it to be, would you? I'll take a little bit of the unsafe to avoid homogenization.[/quote] I may offend with this question but I just have to ask. It is just an honest unloaded question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. *sigh* What is the draw of the ghetto to certain white people? I guess by the measure of skin tone variance CH has more "culture" than the UWS... but is that worth putting yourself and possessions in danger? Is it for street cred amongst peers? Or do people just put on their blinders and only look to the positive in order to enjoy the cheap rent? Safety just seems so underrated to some. Yes, CH is diverse, but is a neighborhood more enjoyable because the dude down the block asking you to borrow your car or a couple of dollars is Jamaican instead of white? If your car gets broken into is it any less infuriating because the crackhead who probably did it isn't white? If you want culture, there are plenty of more diverse, equally cheap and much safer neighborhoods about the same distance out of the city in Queens. I just can't think of any justification for willingly & knowingly moving into a neighborhood like CH, culture included. We are not talking about the UWS, but with more black people and slightly cheaper rent. We are talking about an area mired in drugs, robbery and murder. While it's not absolutely unbearable, I think it's a reality that anyone who is considering the neighborhood should consider & be aware of. Mind you, I talk to my neighbors, even some of the outwardly shady ones... I'm not exactly shuttered in and living in misery. But for a couple hundred bucks more a month, you could have a totally different (and IMO better) living experience. Again, I don't mean to offend with my posts or stoke flames, but I just want to understand the thinking processes behind some of these posts. I can understand people who have been here all their lives or for a long time (say, >7+ years), but I think suggesting CH as a place for someone used to the UWS to move to because of the enhanced culture is a bit dubious at best. Again I hope not to offend but to just prompt honest + frank discussion.[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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"The ghetto" gimme a break! Cool you are lost!
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If I had found this board before moving here and read Cool the Kid's posts, I would think this was the wild west, people murdered and left in the streets everyday, people mugged non stop, and law abiding citizens not leaving their homes after dusk.
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Ah, the ultra PC, crunchy folks.... I've never really understood them either. On the otherhand, I completely understand the young white person who lacks the references, knowledge and $ to get into one of NY's "better neighborhoods". ....they stay for a while, maybe raise some kids and save up some $. Five years later: If the neighborhood looks better, they stay. If it doesn't, they bounce. P.S. CH stopped being a ghetto a long time ago. Those brownstones near the Children's Museum have been owned and loved by generations of hard working people for 50+ years, long before this silly white guy with too much time on his hands was born.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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Cool The Kid » [quote="ntfool"][quote="whynot_31"]So far, the area continues to change for the better. ....it may never become the UWS, but it is slowly becoming less dangerous.
Nor would you want it to be, would you? I'll take a little bit of the unsafe to avoid homogenization.[/quote] I may offend with this question but I just have to ask. It is just an honest unloaded question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. *sigh* What is the draw of the ghetto to certain white people? I guess by the measure of skin tone variance CH has more "culture" than the UWS... but is that worth putting yourself and possessions in danger? Is it for street cred amongst peers? Or do people just put on their blinders and only look to the positive in order to enjoy the cheap rent? Safety just seems so underrated to some. Yes, CH is diverse, but is a neighborhood more enjoyable because the dude down the block asking you to borrow your car or a couple of dollars is Jamaican instead of white? If your car gets broken into is it any less infuriating because the crackhead who probably did it isn't white? If you want culture, there are plenty of more diverse, equally cheap and much safer neighborhoods about the same distance out of the city in Queens. I just can't think of any justification for willingly & knowingly moving into a neighborhood like CH, culture included. We are not talking about the UWS, but with more black people and slightly cheaper rent. We are talking about an area mired in drugs, robbery and murder. While it's not absolutely unbearable, I think it's a reality that anyone who is considering the neighborhood should consider & be aware of. Mind you, I talk to my neighbors, even some of the outwardly shady ones... I'm not exactly shuttered in and living in misery. But for a couple hundred bucks more a month, you could have a totally different (and IMO better) living experience. Again, I don't mean to offend with my posts or stoke flames, but I just want to understand the thinking processes behind some of these posts. I can understand people who have been here all their lives or for a long time (say, >7+ years), but I think suggesting CH as a place for someone used to the UWS to move to because of the enhanced culture is a bit dubious at best. Again I hope not to offend but to just prompt honest + frank discussion.[/quote] Wow. Well, as stated earlier today in a different CH thread, I've never been hassled. I'll repeat that - I've never been hassled here in CH (or PH where I lived before moving to CH), and have resided locally for 8 years. Not by dealers, not by homeless people, never even had my car, which is parked on the street every night, messed with. So in my case, moving here isn;t some sort of strange white or affluent liberal fascination with ghetto life, as you're trying to insinuate. I didn't move here, nor do I live here, for "cred". I moved here with my then-girlfriend (now wife) for convenience. At the time, she lived way the hell out in Sheepshead Bay while I'd found myself living in Staten Island, god help me, and PH/CH was relatively inexpensive and very conveniently located with subway lines running direct to Midtown, where we both worked. And we loved the look of the area - the classic brownstones, the library, museum and park all within walking distance, the neighborhood feel of so many of the local brownstone blocks. While I can point out a few trouble blocks (though I feel there are markedly less now than when we moved here), I've never considered this place a "ghetto". But again, as stated in a recent post on another CH thread, I rarely go north of St. Mark's Ave. The way you and others describe it up there, its a whole different world than what I've become accustomed to. As far as my "homogenization" crack earlier in this thread, that comes from me spending most of my early 20's living on St. Mark's Place in the East Village. This was over 15+ years ago, when the East Village was still somewhat unsafe and dirty - lots of punk squatters, rough bars and, quite honestly, a very interesting and even at times exhilarating music and art scene; i.e. "culture". I lived with one and sometimes two other guys in a 4th fllor walk-up, in one-room studio. Because it was what we could afford. And I loved it. Today, St. Mark's in the East Village is full of unreaslitically expensive coffee bars and chain restaurants, the average rental rate is one of the highest in Manhattan and the populance generally consists of white kids in their twenties who either came from money - and therefore don't often understand the value of hard work - or are douchebag traders from the financial industry - who may very well work more hours than anybody, but tend to be flippant a-holes. It is a pathetic shell of the cultural wealthsource it last was in the early 90's. So, does Crown Heights/Prospect Heights have high crime rates? Yup. Does it have a bank branch or Starbucks located on every corner? Thank god, not yet. It has one of the more rich and storied histories of the borough, and, at least in my little corner, a strong sense of community, with many families having lived in their brownstones for generations. While I myself may bristle a bit at the influx of younger (white) kids moving in the last two years or so (and no, the irony of my annoyance at that is not lost to me) and the subsequent new additions to the area that came with them -coughFranklinParkcough, there was already a fully-functioning social scene here, one that I've been more than happy to participate in for years. I've made life-long friends within this community in my time here. For all these and many other reasons, our neighborhood most-definitely has its own culture, one that thankfully does not involve the sameness of chain restaurants and K-Marts everywhere. One that isn't, as you would seemingly like to believe, entirely negative. It is a shame that you've personally had such a terible experience while living here, so much so that you consider this a "ghetto". And while I sympathize with you, I myself thankfully have not had those experiences.If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc.
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