NW Crown Heights/Rogers, safe for female students?

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NW Crown Heights/Rogers, safe for female students?

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Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

Hello. I have a 20 year old daughter who is looking at some places on Rogers (Prospect Pl, Park Pl, Sterling area). She would be sharing with 3 other young women all early to mid 20's. They need to rent a place soon and have found reasonably priced and decent options there. They've walked around the neighborhood during the day and at night and all said they feel pretty comfortable with it. But, the crime stats seem pretty high and I'm wondering if this is a safe area for them.
Two have lived in other areas of NYC and two, including my daughter, are new to the city. She will be a student at a college in Manhattan and is required to dress "business casual" for school (actually has very little money or possessions but because of wardrobe requirements may appear to be more well off).

I'd appreciate honest feedback on

1.) general safety of this part of Crown Heights esp. for young single women

2.) safety of walking home from the subway at night(would most likely come down Park Pl from the stop there since it's closer or could get off at Franklin/Eastern and walk down to Rogers if that's safer)

3.) Any general safety tips (esp. for gals from the burbs and new to the city) and crime hot spots in Crown Heights to avoid

Thanks so much in advance for your time and advice!

# Posted 8 mos ago
cremate
getting it
Joined: Jul '11
Posts: 181

My honest opinion: No way in hell.

Check out Sunset park (or even Borough park) or somewhere in South Brooklyn (Bensonhurst, Dyker Heights or Bay ridge come to mind). These are all cheap (comparatively) and some of safest areas in Brooklyn.

Bay Ridge also has the added bonus of having a ton of great bars and restaurants. To note, South Brooklyn will have about a 45-60 minute commute to the city but is worth it for safety IMO.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Epiclylaterd
getting it
Joined: Mar '12
Posts: 180

I live on Park Pl and Rogers. Have not had a problem since being here. I don't know if ANY area in New York City is "safe." I think the theme is the same as all the other "is it safe" threads. If they've taken the walk day and night then that's a good way to get an idea of the area. With that said, it's NYC and sketchy things can happen anywhere. But in the immediate area of Park/Rogers, I've felt safe (and welcome). My girlfriend has had one run in with a drunk on Franklin/Atlantic at 1am that tried to cat call her but that's it. You get it anywhere, it's NYC. Overall, a good area that I'm happy to be a part of.

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

Rogers at Prospect/Park/Sterling is a nice area, and getting nicer every day. I would have no qualms about it at all.

Cremate probably needs to get out more, and/or consider getting a script for some lorazepam.

# Posted 8 mos ago
vaportrail
getting it
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 75

Cremate, have you been around the area in question? There are many, many people that are doing the exact same thing as the OP's daughter is considering and more are coming every month.

Recommending that someone not live there and that they live in an area where they will have little in common with their neighbors is a bit irresponsible.

I'm sure there are plenty of college age folks in Bensonhurst, Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, and Borough Park, but I doubt there are many of them moving there for a roommate situation. I can think of no other place as alienating as Borough Park for a 20 year old gal living with roommates.

And OP, yes, I've lived around Nostrand and St. Johns for 5 years and have never had a problem. Granted I don't stumble around drunk at 4 am, but IMO you're asking for trouble doing that anywhere.

in the thick of it

# Posted 8 mos ago
MsBoombastic
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '11
Posts: 25

I've lived at Park Place & Rogers for two years now, and love the area. If she keeps her wits about her, she should have no problems. As others have said on this and similar threads, you need to use common sense in the City, no matter which area you're in. This includes, for me, not pulling out my phone or iPod when walking home from the subway, being alert to my surroundings, walking with purpose, etc.

# Posted 8 mos ago
adobogado
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 10

Hi my name is Big Nasty Nate. I've been to jail so I'm a tuff guy. I live in the area and am firends with most of the thugs who are just like me. If you want I can walk your sweet girl home every night.

joking, most people who are new to the city have no idea how to be aware of their surroundings and how not to be targets. First lesson that I ever learned was make eye contact (not stare and make googly eyes, but just enough to make sure they know you saw their face)

# Posted 8 mos ago
adobogado
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 10

Also get off on franklin on the 4/5 and walk up franklin - usually many cops protecting the hipsters

# Posted 8 mos ago
tateinbk
above average
Joined: Jun '11
Posts: 503

My only hesitation in going along with saying it's no problem is the fact that your daughter and another are have not lived in NYC before. I would also suggest she walk along Franklin rather than Rogers. While she gets used to the area feel free to urge her to take cabs if she is feeling unsafe. If she walks around fearfully clutching her purse or alternately flashing an iPhone she may be open to harassment or robbery. Maybe.

I just tend to think walking with confidence, keeping valuables away, and getting to know your neighbors are your best bets in any area. However, if she's never lived here before, it may take a little while to acquire all that. If she doesn't know about it yet, make sure you tell her about Right Rides a non-for profit free ride home on late Friday and Saturday nights.

# Posted 8 mos ago
jarvis
getting it
Joined: Aug '05
Posts: 172

The real question is, how is she going to feel? If she's going to be looking over her shoulder while she's coming home every night and feeling paranoid, then I don't think it's worth it. It's a vibrant and dynamic area, but It is indeed a high crime area ... and having your wits about you, while great advice, is definitely not a guarantee of safety. Chances are she'll be fine, but you know your daughter - depends on her temperament.. it sucks to live somewhere where you don't feel safe.

I am a NYC native and have lived in the neighborhood since the 90s. Would I walk around Rogers in the area you're talking about by myself at night? Probably, but only while carrying very little with me, and I'd be walking quickly and with a specific destination. Might sound lame, but that's the truth.. As much as I love Pros. and Crown Heights, there are much safer neighborhoods in Brooklyn.

Number one tip: do not talk or text on the phone while you're walking at night. Especially if you have an iPhone.. iphone jacking is the thing that happens the most frequently and often leads to your other stuff getting jacked.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

cremate said:
My honest opinion: No way in hell.

Cremate : Can you elaborate on why you would say that? Thanks.

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

It's just not an issue for most residents. Yes, muggings happen, especially when people put themselves in situations that makes them easy, but it happens at the same rate (if not more so) in Prospect Heights proper as in whatever label you want to ascribe to the developing regions in Crown Heights North.

Visit the Prospect Heights forum here, and you see the same fears of being mugged, if not more so. Maybe that's because people don't expect it to happen there, but nonetheless Prospect Heights is routinely labeled as one of the most desirable neighborhoods in New York City.

As a dog-running resident who ventures into all areas, I feel I can safely define boundaries for people who want to do normal things without feeling that they are intruding on the turf of reckless individuals who still have something to prove along silly racial divides.

I've stated this before, my boundary is Utica Avenue. There, and east of there, there be dragons. To the west, anyone who doesn't have any prejudices has nothing to worry about. Rogers, Bedford, and Franklin especially have been cornerstones where young professionals have flocked to, and with very good reason. Every time I walk out to the avenues there, I'm amazed at the change just in the three years I have been here.

I would not hesitate, if I had the money, to invest in neighborhood properties to the fullest extent. My only concern for renters here is that the cost has become very high lately. Especially in terms of a share, you could live in Manhattan for the cost. But then, I've lived in Manhattan myself for many years before coming to Brooklyn. And here all of a sudden I feel like I'm surrounded by a sense of community I haven't had since emigrating to America.

Even MHA won't scare me away from this place.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

Thanks for all the comments and tips folks. Keep 'em coming!
Epiclylaterd and MsBoombastic - sounds like you might be neighbors, great to hear the perspective of people who live on/near where she is looking. My concern isn't so much with the immediate neighborhood as much as with the distance to the nearest subway stops and her safety walking home at night. She'll probably have one evening class and won't get home till around 11:00.

Vaportrail, good to hear that there are other college aged kids living in the area. I agree that stumbling around drunk at 4 am is asking for trouble. It's unlikely she'd ever be out that late (and she doesn't drink).

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

"Big Nasty Nate" - thanks for the laugh! I need it with the stress of trying to help dd navigate an apartment hunt long-distance. Thanks for the tip about making eye contact - I would have guessed to do just the opposite - but being able to ID a face makes sense.

Any idea if there are classes on learning to be "street-smart"? Maybe a self-defense class for women would cover that? I tried calling the 77th precint office to ask for input and about any crime prevention classes they may know of...called almost every # on their website and got only recordings and answering machines...any idea how to get a live person short of calling 911? (I hope that's not an indication of how responsive the police are in the area.)

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

adobogado said:
Also get off on franklin on the 4/5 and walk up franklin - usually many cops protecting the hipsters

So if she walks N on Franklin she'd still need to go E on a side street to get over to Rogers, right? Is Park Place Ok for walking at night between Franklin and Rogers? What about just getting off at the Park Place stop and walking straight E or is it not as safe a subway stop as Franklin?

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

tateinbk
That is a valid consideration. I think she will have a "street-smart" learning curve no matter where in NYC she lives. One of the roomates has lived in NYC all her life so should be able to help give the noobies some pointers.

How much would a cab from the Franklin stop over to Rogers/Prospect area be? She's on a very tight student budget so probably wouldn't spend the money unless she really felt unsafe. I'll have her look up the info on Right Rides. All the girls are very friendly and will probably be open to getting to know their neighbors (but that won't help much while walking home.) Is using a backpack any better/worse than using a purse?

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

Jarvis,
I'm actually hoping that she will feel just enough initial uneasyness to stay on her guard. She comes from an area where people smile, say hi, make eye contact, talk to pretty much anyone (strangers or not) and really don't have to worry about crime. This will be a big adjustment.Thanks for the tip about not talking/texting. She doesn't have an Iphone -- just an older model cell phone that is worth very little but I'll warn her about not using it while walking home.

# Posted 8 mos ago
cremate
getting it
Joined: Jul '11
Posts: 181

I haven't been to that specific block but I have been to Classon and to Brower park and I can't imagine in between is any nicer.

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but if safety is of utmost concern you're not looking at the best place to live.

@eastbloc - I've been to almost every neighborhood in BK, and spent days there so I do know my way around.

@vaportrail - I agree with you on Borough park but I was merely suggesting it for safety/value. I think the subways still stay open so you can get out of there when everything closes.

# Posted 8 mos ago
newguy88
what am I, new?
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 183

When I was looking in the area I was told not to go east of New York Ave. The area your looking at is decent. I'm a guy who is a few years older then your daughter and I don't feel unsafe in the area. But at the same time they do need to be alert and aware of what is going on. I'd recommend that they walk up Eastern Parkway as much as possible if they go bar hopping or to restaurants around the Franklin Ave area.

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

Were you mugged or accosted on Classon and in Brower Park, or did you just "feel unsafe"?

(Where's MHA when you need him?)

If safety is of such utmost concern, one should live in a gated compound with armed guards posted at the gate. This is New York City, not Disneyland.

And are you saying crime doesn't happen in Sunset Park? Aren't there a bunch of rapists on the loose there?

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

newguy88 said:
When I was looking in the area I was told not to go west of New York Ave. The area your looking at is decent. I'm a guy who is a few years older then your daughter and I don't feel unsafe in the area. But at the same time they do need to be alert and aware of what is going on. I'd recommend that they walk up Eastern Parkway as much as possible if they go bar hopping or to restaurants around the Franklin Ave area.

You mean east of New York Ave. And I think Brooklyn Ave is nice, too, but a bit of a hoof from the train.

# Posted 8 mos ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

Also, Borough Park may not be such a welcoming area for a young single woman. The Hassidic community has been known to take issue with the attire of young female goyim that they feel is risque. Plenty of examples in Williamsburg of folks getting harrassed.

# Posted 8 mos ago
BKChickie
Bagel Hole Girl
Joined: Mar '08
Posts: 1,089

I would think that your daughter would have a hard time affording anything further west--even as a share. I also have a hunch, based on my own building, that lots of co-ops in expensified areas are no longer allowing rentals to those under 21. We had a problem with young residents (who came with stellar recommendations) who didn't understand that no everyone keeps a student schedule.

This part of Brooklyn is changing by the month, in my opinion. When I moved to Prospect Heights five years ago I thought the edge of gentrification (and thus, expensification) was Vanderbilt Ave. Now, I think it's Franklin. Your daughter is going to be a block east of Franklin. There's constant foot traffic on Franklin.

All along, my personal no-go zone was east of Utica Ave. This is several blocks west of that. I think she'll be fine. Not, blase, wear-your-heaphones-while-whipping-out-the-iPhone4S-to-text-the-BFF, fine, but that's nowhere in Brooklyn.

Also, may I just add, if I, as a 20 year old, found out that my mom was posting on message boards asking about my safety--and not trusting my own judgement as a young adult--I would have been furious. Deep breaths, mom, your daughter is going to be fine.

# Posted 8 mos ago
adobogado
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 10

advice tip #2, be friendly and polite with the older folks who live in your neighborhood (post retirement age). If you see an old lady every morning walking her dog or fixing her plants, say good morning. The people who know everyone in the neighborhood and the happenings on the block will keep an eye out for that nice young girl who says high every morning.

This is why I prefer Brooklyn to Manahattan. Twice a nieghbor who I only met afterwards saved me from a ticket, when my pregnant wife could not move the car in time. He knew who we were and which car was ours and told the cop the car was his and he was about to move it, then came and told my wife to move the car before the cop came back.

Point is while the "dark streets" might seem scary, the knucklehead teens hanging on the corner who you are scared of, might be more scared of their grandma. So make friends with the grandma.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

cremate said:
I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but if safety is of utmost concern you're not looking at the best place to live.

Obviously one can be too safety focused, but on the flip side if your place is getting robbed, people are getting shot + held up at gunpoint etc it doesn't matter how many "cool bars" a neighborhood has.

That said, the area the OP is looking at is probably fine. Good indicator of how good a place is is how much its area can command in rent, especially for a 2-3 bedroom

3 BR at the west end of EP is like 3000. 3 BR around Ralph is like 1500. To me that says it all

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 8 mos ago
BKChickie
Bagel Hole Girl
Joined: Mar '08
Posts: 1,089

adobogado said:
advice tip #2, be friendly and polite with the older folks who live in your neighborhood (post retirement age). If you see an old lady every morning walking her dog or fixing her plants, say good morning. The people who know everyone in the neighborhood and the happenings on the block will keep an eye out for that nice young girl who says high every morning.

Seconding this advice. Get on "good morning" terms with the people you regularly see out on the sidewalks and any of the supers you regularly see around your block.

Additionally, get on good terms with the older people you see in your building. They are around *all* the time. They see everything and know everything that's happening in the neighborhood.

Jane Jacobs called it "eyes on the street."

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amy Sara Clark
rookie newb
Joined: Jun '11
Posts: 25

I cover the crime in the area up to Bedford (Rodgers is one block east. It's a lovely, safe area during the day, but from what I've seen after about 11 p.m. there have been a lot of muggings, many violent (though most of the violent ones have affected men).

If your daughter can avoid walking alone after 11 p.m. she should be fine. There is also a volunteer organization called the Brooklyn Bike Patrol that can escort her home every night after 8 p.m.

You can see all the recent crimes that have police reports at the link below, on Prospect Heights Patch (up until about 10 days ago, there's a lag getting the reports). But remember, I haven't covered any crime East of Bedford.

http://prospectheights.patch.com/columns/police-blotter-ac19d696

# Posted 8 mos ago
The Psycho-ologist
big A little a Bouncing B the system may have got you but it won't get me.
Joined: Jan '08
Posts: 439

homeowner said:
Also, Borough Park may not be such a welcoming area for a young single woman. The Hassidic community has been known to take issue with the attire of young female goyim that they feel is risque. Plenty of examples in Williamsburg of folks getting harrassed.

NOT TRUE!

I live on the border of Sunset Park and Borough Park, and go into Borough park all the time for shopping, since I am closer to their shopping areas. I have never felt reviled.

I also endorse Sunset Park and Borough Park. I am a young female and the express train I am near gets me to all my hot spots. When I go out, I wear gothic gear. Think Nine Inch Nails, The Cure and Marilyn Manson type clothing.

No, there is nothing to do IN the neighborhood, but I have a big, cheap, and beautiful, apartment in a VERY safe and quiet neighborhood. I can still enjoy the night life in other parts of the city.

I think people get caught up in the wave of young & hip people moving into neighborhoods and don't objectively look at the quality and price of the neighborhoods when making their choice. I guess that is better for people like me who value safety and low cost, and will gladly live in an overlooked neighborhood in a big bright sunny place, rather than feel sketchy so that I can say I live around a bunch of other trend setter pioneer college students.

a teaspoon of kisses and a drop of glee

# Posted 8 mos ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

I once hooked up with a chick whose first question to me was "so what stop on the L do you live off"

People take that shit serious

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 8 mos ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

The Psycho-ologist said:
NOT TRUE!

I live on the border of Sunset Park and Borough Park, and go into Borough park all the time for shopping, since I am closer to their shopping areas. I have never felt reviled.

I also endorse Sunset Park and Borough Park. I am a young female and the express train I am near gets me to all my hot spots. When I go out, I wear gothic gear. Think Nine Inch Nails, The Cure and Marilyn Manson type clothing.

No, there is nothing to do IN the neighborhood, but I have a big, cheap, and beautiful, apartment in a VERY safe and quiet neighborhood. I can still enjoy the night life in other parts of the city.

I think people get caught up in the wave of young & hip people moving into neighborhoods and don't objectively look at the quality and price of the neighborhoods when making their choice. I guess that is better for people like me who value safety and low cost, and will gladly live in an overlooked neighborhood in a big bright sunny place, rather than feel sketchy so that I can say I live around a bunch of other trend setter pioneer college students.

I didn't make this up...

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

eastbloc said:
As a dog-running resident who ventures into all areas, I feel I can safely define boundaries for people who want to do normal things without feeling that they are intruding on the turf of reckless individuals who still have something to prove along silly racial divides.

I've stated this before, my boundary is Utica Avenue. There, and east of there, there be dragons. To the west, anyone who doesn't have any prejudices has nothing to worry about. Rogers, Bedford, and Franklin especially have been cornerstones where young professionals have flocked to, and with very good reason. Every time I walk out to the avenues there, I'm amazed at the change just in the three years I have been here.

Even MHA won't scare me away from this place.

@Eastbloc,
Thanks for your insights on the neighborhood.
Honestly, we wouldn't want her going as far East as Utica.I keep hearing positive things about Franklin and west of there but keep hearing a lot of very negative things about the eastern part of CH. My husband was actually with the girls when they were apartment hunting in CH on a couple different days and then made a trip with them at around midnight to check out the neighborhood at night. His impressions were that the Rogers/Bedford/Franklin area seemed fine - lots of people out and about jogging, walking the dog, etc. but that when they walked toward the east it seemed to start changing after Nostrand.So he advised them to stay west of there.

I don't think any of them have too many prejudices -- the 4 roomies are of 3 different races and will probably be learning a lot about each other's backgrounds just living together. Hmmm...what is MHA and why should they be scared of it?

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

BKChickie said:
I would think that your daughter would have a hard time affording anything further west--even as a share. I also have a hunch, based on my own building, that lots of co-ops in expensified areas are no longer allowing rentals to those under 21. We had a problem with young residents (who came with stellar recommendations) who didn't understand that no everyone keeps a student schedule.

This part of Brooklyn is changing by the month, in my opinion. When I moved to Prospect Heights five years ago I thought the edge of gentrification (and thus, expensification) was Vanderbilt Ave. Now, I think it's Franklin. Your daughter is going to be a block east of Franklin. There's constant foot traffic on Franklin.

All along, my personal no-go zone was east of Utica Ave. This is several blocks west of that. I think she'll be fine. Not, blase, wear-your-heaphones-while-whipping-out-the-iPhone4S-to-text-the-BFF, fine, but that's nowhere in Brooklyn.

Also, may I just add, if I, as a 20 year old, found out that my mom was posting on message boards asking about my safety--and not trusting my own judgement as a young adult--I would have been furious. Deep breaths, mom, your daughter is going to be fine.

@BKchickie, yep..have had a hard time finding affordable (and decent) places and also have had a landlord at a place they all loved who didn't want to rent to them because 2 are students. Thanks for taking time to comment.

And, no worries about my posting questions on her behalf on a forum. She's aware of it. We have a great relationship and she often invites me to assist in the decision making process because I have a gift for asking questions and ferreting out information.She has been so busy with starting school and apartment hunting that she hasn't had time to research on the internet. Also, since we have to sign the lease as guarantors, we do feel we have the right to give some input. My husband advised against some other apartments where the neighborhood just looked really sketchy. Ultimately the decision is up to her and her roommates.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

adobogado said:
advice tip #2, be friendly and polite with the older folks who live in your neighborhood (post retirement age). If you see an old lady every morning walking her dog or fixing her plants, say good morning. The people who know everyone in the neighborhood and the happenings on the block will keep an eye out for that nice young girl who says high every morning.

Point is while the "dark streets" might seem scary, the knucklehead teens hanging on the corner who you are scared of, might be more scared of their grandma. So make friends with the grandma.

Excellent advice! Thanks so much. BTW, love the term "knucklehead" though I'm kind of guessing at the definition. I've seen it used in a number of posts from New Yorkers. I mean, I get the gist...just hadn't heard the term...must be a regional thing.

@BKchickie - thanks for expanding on this advice. Good to know who are the real "eyes and ears" of a neighborhood.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

Amy Sara Clark said:
I cover the crime in the area up to Bedford (Rodgers is one block east. It's a lovely, safe area during the day, but from what I've seen after about 11 p.m. there have been a lot of muggings, many violent (though most of the violent ones have affected men).

If your daughter can avoid walking alone after 11 p.m. she should be fine. There is also a volunteer organization called the Brooklyn Bike Patrol that can escort her home every night after 8 p.m.

You can see all the recent crimes that have police reports at the link below, on Prospect Heights Patch (up until about 10 days ago, there's a lag getting the reports). But remember, I haven't covered any crime East of Bedford.

http://prospectheights.patch.com/columns/police-blotter-ac19d696

Thanks for the info. It was actually looking at this site and others like it with local crime stories and stats that got me concerned about the neighborhood in the first place. Hopefully most nights she won't be coming home after 11:00 but Brooklyn Bike Patrol looks like a great resource for those nights she'll be home later. What a wonderful service they are providing to the community!

# Posted 8 mos ago
Amomof4
rookie newb
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 12

Thanks again everyone for the advice. So, the update is that the young women have leased a nice newly-renovated 3 br apt and will be joining you in the NW Crown Heights neighborhood.

If anyone has any further advice or tips they want to share, that would be great. They don't have internet turned on in their apt. yet but I'll let my daughter know about this forum and the great info here.

# Posted 8 mos ago
cremate
getting it
Joined: Jul '11
Posts: 181

@eastbloc - I was over near Brower in 2007. Worst area of the city I had been to at the time. Wasn't mugged but definitely verbally intimidated and stared down. The landlord showing me the place asked me why I was looking out there, and that he liked me but didn't think I should move there. Hello Bath Beach

Franklin might be cool and hip but it has a dark underbelly. Be careful in or around the bars at night. Also coming off the avenues onto the streets. This is coming from a guy who thinks Washington is sketchy (although not enough to avoid) so take it for what it is.

I much agree with all Psychologist had typed about people ignoring neighborhood quality and value.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Cool The Kid
We out this mother effer
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 1,385

Man I was in CH last weekend. Franklin is far from sketch. Hell I have been over by Utica late at night. Looks/feels a lot like Nostrand. Actually a lot of (I think) Hasidic Jews on Utica. Brownstones out there are really nice too. Not saying I would live there, but its not like the moment you step off the train you get stabbed. Hell I have been out off the end of the 2/5 line in ENY. Some blocks are DEFINITELY sketch. I didn't like walking out there. But some blocks are super quiet. If you have a car (which is def doable out there) and don't stick out or draw attention to yourself its doable. At the end of the day though its about what you feel comfortable with. And in any case, you really need to live somewhere year round to really know whatever issues a neighborhood has. But Franklin sketch? Franklin is safer than its ever been. My second NYE in CH someone celebrated by popping shots not even 20 ft away. I think its different now, 4 yrs later.

[
Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

Washington is sketchier than Franklin.

# Posted 8 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,089

eastbloc said:
Washington is sketchier than Franklin.

Washington certainly seems to have more street drug traffic between 6 PM and 10 PM.

Yes, I'm talking about the guys selling drugs near the closed video store on Washington near St John's: http://brooklynian.com/forum/crown-heights-and-prospect-lefferts-gardens/shooting-on-washington-ave

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 8 mos ago
ntfool
above average
Joined: Sep '08
Posts: 483

eastbloc said:
Washington is sketchier than Franklin.

Wow, has the neighborhood changed!

If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

spurn Productions, Inc.

# Posted 8 mos ago
cremate
getting it
Joined: Jul '11
Posts: 181

I think more violent crime happens on Franklin though. I am willing to go back though to check it out as its been about a year.

Washington just looks dingy... I think its safer though (although I know people that have been mugged on the streets off of underhill/washington)

eastbloc said:
Washington is sketchier than Franklin.

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

And more run-down businesses, loitering, and trash in general.

In the last two years, the commercial foot traffic on Franklin has surpassed Washington, which is not surprising given the comparative amenities available on both.

# Posted 8 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,089

The transformation of the former hospital into apartments really gave Franklin a boost

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 8 mos ago
eastbloc
comprador bourgeois
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 902

I haven't heard of much violent crime on Franklin in the last two years. Most of the muggings happen on the side streets, and seem to happen just as frequently off of Underhill than off Franklin or Washington.

The Franklin impact zone makes a big difference.

# Posted 8 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,089

agreed.

...I've been surprised that the muggings don't all seem to be happening after 10PM. I thought it was mostly limited to "mug the intoxicated guy of his smart phone and/or wallet after 10 PM." However, it seems to be a "mug the guy who may or may not be intoxicated, of his smart phone and/or wallet sometime after 8 PM" phenomena.

I suspect women don't get mugged more because they know better than to walk alone; where as men seem to be more confident/dumb....There also may be a stigma against a male mugging a female, and proportionately less female muggers.

But I digress.

Crime usually peaks in the summer, so it is yet another reason to look forward to falling leaves, rum spiked apple cider, and children dressed as superheros.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 8 mos ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 3,018

Franklin gets more foot traffic because it's an express stop as well as a hub station. Washington just isn't as busy, plus there has been plenty of high density development closer to Franklin than Washington.

# Posted 8 mos ago
Jack Krohn
My Baby's Gone Shootin'
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 1,062

End of 2/5 line is in Flatbush, not ENY.

# Posted 8 mos ago
xlizellx
rocking it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,580

eastbloc said:

If safety is of such utmost concern, one should live in a gated compound with armed guards posted at the gate. This is New York City, not Disneyland.

My dad helped with some initial plans for the Disney owned gated community Celebration built in the 90s. And murder happens there too.

.......
I have lived here for years, I love the area. As to the specific question about subway stops, the Park Place stop is fine - but because the S is the only train there there are less people than at the Franklin Avenue stop. And walking East on Park is fine - its a nice, quiet block of beautifully restored homes.

# Posted 8 mos ago