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No, Karl I am weak-kneed and speechless due to your immense talent more poems please you genius you
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Jack Krohn » No, Karl I am weak-kneed and speechless
wish granted a poem for ever clever krohn with a masters in...something: poor poor crippled jack rickets are now curable it's good you can typedestination: roam -
on facebook i am nowdestination: roam
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For those who are interested in more background about the proposed pawn shop, as well as the protests against it, Nick at "I Love Franklin Ave" has written about it. http://ilovefranklinave.blogspot.com/ The community outcry has already convinced its owner to remove large signs advertising its presence.Very un- "sivilized".
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Read it Krowonhill. Very descriptive. Thanks!
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MHA » MEANWHILE, IN THE REAL WORLD: The laundromat at the corner of Franklin and Park Place put pressure on the landlord of the building to have the pawnshop proprietor remove their signage from its close proximity to the laundromat's signage. They argued that it gave the impression that they are the same entity, when in truth, they are not. Apparently the laundromat management has gotten a number of complaints from its customers about the prospective pawnshop. The signs are being removed right now.
But this means they are still opening, right? I heard that they might be opening near the Police Tower instead. Is that true? -
MHA » MEANWHILE, IN THE REAL WORLD: The laundromat at the corner of Franklin and Park Place put pressure on the landlord of the building to have the pawnshop proprietor remove their signage from its close proximity to the laundromat's signage. They argued that it gave the impression that they are the same entity, when in truth, they are not. Apparently the laundromat management has gotten a number of complaints from its customers about the prospective pawnshop. The signs are being removed right now.
But this means they are still opening, right? I heard that they might be opening near the Police Tower instead. Is that true? -
Xlizellx, It's my understanding that there is still intent to open on Park Place. I've heard nothing indicating that there is a change of location.
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Does ANYONE see the IRONY of the controversy surrounding a pawn shop on PARK PLACE in Brooklyn and the controversy surrounding an Islamic Center on PARK PLACE in Manhattan? Two anecdotes: First - I was in a store on Franklin Avenue and a kid comes in and asked the owner and me if we were interested in buying a cell phone. Weirdly, just moments before he walked in, our conversation was about the soon to be pawn shop. Our conclusion was that if/when it comes, this kid can take the phone to pawn shop and get reimbursed for it..... Second - A dude walks into a restaurant on Franklin Avenue and presents to the person behind the counter a Dell laptop. "Give me 50 dollars and its yours." She said she didn't have the money. He says 40. She refuses. People look at him disdainfully and shake their heads. He takes the laptop and he leaves. Moments later he is seen sprinting down Franklin with 4 cops in hot pursuit.... In conversation with folk about this, the opinion was unanimous: If there is a pawn shop would-be thieves or 'finders' will simply take said merchandise to be exchanged for money. Both of these incidents happened this week.
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There is online and offline chatter about the pawnshop moving from where it was intended to be -- on Park Place, to another spot on Franklin Avenue, in close proximity to the police tower at the corner of Franklin and Lincoln. This has not been verified. http://ilovefranklinave.blogspot.com/ site is more informed than most, as Krownohill pointed out earlier.
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Apparently Channel 12 and the Daily News have entered the mix. I was told of an interview done in front of the doorway of the soon to be pawnshop, and a Daily News reporter came by as well...
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MHA » Apparently Channel 12 and the Daily News have entered the mix. I was told of an interview done in front of the doorway of the soon to be pawnshop, and a Daily News reporter came by as well...
Would this be in front of the Laundromat or rumored new location? -
I believe the interview took place yesterday in proximity of the laundromat. It happened at -- or near -- the corner of Park Place and Franklin. I don't know if there is still plan to move it to another location.
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There is apparently an article in today's Daily News about the Pawn Shop on Park Place controversy.
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MHA » There is apparently an article in today's Daily News about the Pawn Shop on Park Place controversy.
My googling turned up nothing. ....but I did find this similar anti-pawn shop battle in Sunnyside Queens: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_dont_pawn_off_nabe_some_residents_want_more_upscale_shop_in_prime_location.html What is adjacent to the pawhshop's new location? Although Arches and I are disappointed our prior branding efforts will not be utilized, we may be able to come up with some more names and tag lines. ...but we need more info.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
There was an article in the Daily News. I am unable to find it using Google however; weird. Anyway, there is a protest planned for this Saturday in front of the laundromat. There are posters located in some stores. Regardless of turnout, this will happen. I smile ruefully at those who say, 'Well, what's wrong with a pawnshop?' My guess is that these folks have never lived with one in close proximity to their home. I actually have the same sentiment about liquor stores. There is a negative collateral effect of all businesses, I think. Whether bodegas are selling illegal cigarettes or not, I am irritated by the collateral damage in the form of litter that patrons of said stores create. Now, we can't blame the bodegas for that. Using legal parlance, they are not the 'proximate cause' of litter, and neither is the pawnshop the proximate cause of robbery; however, but both are contributing causes, in my opinion. Many poo-poo governance getting involved in fighting obesity, for instance. Those libertarian naysayers argue that it's the choice of the gluttonous to go into Mickey-Ds or the corner bodega to buy junk food, yet, they either ignore or are ignorant of the involvement of the gargantuan food lobbyists who have ensured that there will be corn subsidies which ensure that the cost of corn, corn syrup, and concomitantly beef, chicken, pork and cattle offal-fed fish are priced substantially lower because of subsidies which artificially reward farmers for growing corn, the fuel for all of this mess; so when the fat goes into the bodega and buys a quarter water for 25 cents, or a honeybun for 50 cents, or a Pepsi or Coke, or whatever that is corn syrup buttressed -- and gets fatter -- it's not like that choice wasn't made for them. Meanwhile the cost of fruits and veggies are not similarly subsidized. So here comes the pawnshop, and libertarian rhetoric about choice. Meanwhile the poor, unemployed and dispossessed see in many cases the difference between being solvent and not is to sell the gold, silver and electronics they possess. And the criminal-minded and the amorally desperate see the likelihood of income from all of these hipsters with Droid and iphones. Yeah, choice indeed. Be prepared for more poverty, for more crime, and for more protest.
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warning to protesters about possible violence!!! Do not block or get in the way of me getting coffee or a Baltizar pastry from BC
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daily news article: http://www.crowhillcommunity.org/images/dailynews.jpg
and this is from an email we sent out today:
Council Member Letitia James and other representatives from our community will be present to speak out against bringing this type of business into our neighborhood and to talk about the importance of residents and merchants uniting to stop unwanted development in our communities.
The Pawn Shop claims that they are simply in business to provide loans to people in a pinch, but this is only one side of the story.
Pawn shops make their money in one of two ways: from high interest charged to individuals in need or by selling the merchandise brought to them which is not reclaimed
Merchandise is not reclaimed for one of two reasons, the person who brought it in can not pay back the loan plus interest
OR
the merchandise is stolen
Nothing about this operation seems positive for the community.
In August, burglaries on the west side of the precinct (where Crow Hill is located) were up 600%
Thankfully, these numbers dropped substantially in September, but robbery is still a prevalent problem in the community.
A pawn shop makes it even easier for a thief to get rid of stolen electronics and gold
We do not want this incentive in Crow HIll where we have been working effectively with the 77th precinct to reduce crime.
This is an excellent opportunity to show that we care about our neighborhood and its future development
BUT WE MUST STAND TOGETHER
We were on Franklin Ave on Tuesday, putting up posters and we talked with both store owners and residents, not one person thought the pawn shop was good for our community.stay up to date, visit our:
website - http://www.crowhillcommunity.org
facebook page - http://tinyurl.com/op5l5o -
Wow!! burglaries up 600% without new pawn shops!! with this new super pawn opening this will go up to 6000% thank god the police are stationed right outside sleeping in their golf cart.
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Aren't these short term loans considered payday loans and aren't they illegal in NYC
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this is from a community member on Albany:
There is a need in the community for access to capital. Especially small amounts of capital. Here is something that is happening in Delaware. They set this system up as an alternative to payday loans where interest rates are like 500-1300%! http://www.westendnh.org/2009/07/16/west-end-unveils-statewide-low-interest-loan-program/ Payday loans are illegal in New York which is why the pawnshops are springing up. But in NY State you can get payday loans online and through storefronts fronting for banks in states where it is legal. http://www.nypirg.org/consumer/payday/
If people are concerned about the lack of access to loan opportunities in our community, please come to the next Crow Hill meeting (Tues-10/19 / 7:30 / LaunchPad / 721 Franklin) and we can set up a committee to work on bringing a legit intstitution to Crown Heights, My assumption would be that we would have to demonstrate a need for this in the community in order for it to be considered viablestay up to date, visit our:
website - http://www.crowhillcommunity.org
facebook page - http://tinyurl.com/op5l5o -
stacey » Aren't these short term loans considered payday loans and aren't they illegal in NYC
Pawn shop loans are legal, but the terms are regulated by NY State. I think the interest cap is 4% per month...which is a pretty awful deal by any normal standards of lending, and makes the "service to the community" aspect of this very hard to swallow. -
The developer has installed a new glass door and has put newspaper to shield the construction occurring inside. There is still no signage indicating that construction is occurring with the cognizance of the city.
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Newsflash! The pawnshop by law cannot be in that site. The area is not ZONED for it.... The following is a quote: "Park Place & Franklin has a 'Residential 6 (R6) designation with a Commercial 1-1 (C1-1) overlay' PAWN SHOPS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN C1-1 zones Construction for the pawn shop was done AT NIGHT and on weekends with NO DISPLAY of a DOB work order. A call to DOB confirmed that there has been NO FILING for recent construction. There are currently 2 OPEN DOB VIOLATIONS for the pawn shop, one for construction without a work order and one for zoning violation." Therefore, THE PAWN SHOP IS ILLEGAL
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MHA » There are currently 2 OPEN DOB VIOLATIONS for the pawn shop, one for construction without a work order and one for zoning violation."
Those are open complaints, not violations. In a few weeks someone from DOB might actually come out to investigate and if they see a problem they would then issue a violation. If the work is completed by the time they come by or if they come by and there is no active work in progress or they can't get access then they will close that complaint. The zoning violation has a very low priority since it isn't a hazardous condition so who knows when they may investigate that one. -
MHA » Newsflash! The pawnshop by law cannot be in that site. The area is not ZONED for it.... The following is a quote: "Park Place & Franklin has a 'Residential 6 (R6) designation with a Commercial 1-1 (C1-1) overlay' PAWN SHOPS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN C1-1 zones Construction for the pawn shop was done AT NIGHT and on weekends with NO DISPLAY of a DOB work order. A call to DOB confirmed that there has been NO FILING for recent construction. There are currently 2 OPEN DOB VIOLATIONS for the pawn shop, one for construction without a work order and one for zoning violation." Therefore, THE PAWN SHOP IS ILLEGAL
yes! got em ... i was waiting to hear that.An atheist once said to an evangelical Christian in the British Isles: “If I believed what you say you believe, I would cross Britain upon my knees on broken glass to tell men about it.” -
Time will tell. I know that there has been some media coverage about this, on that Brooklyn cable television station and in the Daily News.
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There is an awning above a single door, nothing else. Hardly deserves all this anger considering it's not even open. It could be worse they could be on Franklin with a big flashing neon. I don't want it here either but there are bigger problems and other shops which I believe should be of greater concern.
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We are not as much concerned with the aesthetic appearance of the establishment as we are about the potential threat to public safety in the community. To say nothing of the fact that It is an inappropriate (and illegal) use of the space according to NYC zoning regulations. We are not alone in our fears, this story about Chicago ran yesterday on public radio: http://marketplace.publicradio.org//display/web/2010/10/15/pm-cutting-down-on-cashforgold/?refid=0&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+APM_Marketplace+%28APM%3A+Marketplace%29stay up to date, visit our:
website - http://www.crowhillcommunity.org
facebook page - http://tinyurl.com/op5l5o -
Hey CHCA do you by any chance have a brownstone on Park??
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Keep in mind TBK, that before the awning above the single door, the proprietor had two huge signs on the roof of the building. It was neighborhood protest which led to the change, and those signs coming down. Your argument about 'bigger concerns' is akin to the police's argument about Crazy Steve Maynard ripping off tree branches. They said the same thing essentially: "Why should we worry about some guy breaking a few leaves off trees?" Meanwhile Steve did over $200,00 worth of damage to trees in Brooklyn, according to the New York Post, the Daily News and the New York Times. My point is this: We need to address ALL concerns; 'big' and 'small'. We ought not to ignore ANY of the problems in our neighborhood. I make an effort to pick up, for instance, all pieces of garbage in front of my home. I do this because it's my opinion that what seems negligible quickly becomes an invitation for more chaos. Get rid of the granular issues and maybe ultimately you won't have to think about bigger problems. Your query to CHCA about whether or not he/she owns property implies that s/he has a propertied interest in the pawnshop not being where it is. Why does that matter? And, if CHCA does, don't you think that is a viable argument? Why would you want to have your property value marred by an illegal business on your residential street? What of the laundromat that it is in close proximity to? What happens when the folks with the stolen jewelry and the stolen iPods come into the laundromat looking for the pawnshop? That pawnshop is NOT supposed to be on that street, apparently, according to city code. The proprietor did all of his construction ILLEGALLY, and likely unsafely, under the cover of night. Now you think he is going to run a respectable business? You think he has regard for this community? If he had regard, you think he would have initially installed that mega-signage? If he had regard, you think he would have done construction without getting a permit? No. He wouldn't. His actions are that of a person WITHOUT regard, and your own tolerance of it is what leaves to the initial mere molehill eventually becoming a mountain of feral moles.
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the awning came down tonight and the door has been covered from the inside
see ya!!!!! -
Check Out the post on the ILoveFranklinAve blog; great info about the demonstration: http://ilovefranklinave.blogspot.com/ Also, there IS a pawnshop on Franklin Avenue.... On the other side of Atlantic Avenue, just across the street from the Franklin Avenue shuttle train stop, about 50 feet away from the corner of Franklin, and Fulton...
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MHA » Check Out the post on the ILoveFranklinAve blog; great info about the demonstration: http://ilovefranklinave.blogspot.com/ Also, there IS a pawnshop on Franklin Avenue.... On the other side of Atlantic Avenue, just across the street from the Franklin Avenue shuttle train stop, about 50 feet away from the corner of Franklin, and Fulton...
I think this article is bordering amazing. Before the economy implosion retail banking put up 1000's of new locations with almost none built or relocated in the ghetto. In previous years retail bankers where involved in horse trades where local governments gave a rubber stamp on locations everywhere in exchange for building or offering banking services in poor communities. People of color/poor people are completely under served by retail banks and the idea that a pawn shop would be considered a viable financial institution is at the very least bizarre. The crime angle was good because it dealt with criminal behavior that is hard to measure and everybody erred on the side of caution. Banking and all the fees and interest associated with loans both long and short term are at least written down and have some government oversight. If people are so concerned that poor people will be taken advantage of by loan sharks doing business as pawn brokers..wake up. Poor black,brown and white people need banking products and services. Because they are not available now and nowhere in the near future maybe a pawnshop is exactly the stopgap that is needed until B of A puts up anything on this side of Washington . Walk around communities and many things are obviously missing from where poor people live, banks are a striking omission. rather than breathing down the throat of 1 sketchy business man trying to open a pawn shop maybe our political reps should spend there time making sure big banks like Barclays put in a few branches in the ghetto for the privilege of putting up shit everywhere they want with a wink and a handshake of all our politicians. Go to Park Slope and people have free coin counting,interest bearing accounts big and small. CH has glass window check cashing storefronts where you pay them a vig to cash a check or have to walk a mile toward all things white so you don't have to pay super inflated ATM fees because retail banks are nowhere to be found . A guy willing to see potential in an an area where lots of business fold their tent has to be met half way. The part of the story not highlighted is the guy already has 3 other stores open and operating..with no huge increase in street crime/revolving door/stolen property transactions. I agree that it is a stark contrast to have Nirobi's backpack leave and a pawnshop take it's place in the tax base but some time should have been taken to talk w the pawn shop owner about the scope and scale of his purposed operation. When asked for a donation for any Crow Hill anything I hope he laughs in the face of the person asking. Equally amazing is what a difference a few years make where a shit level tattoo parlor is welcomed with open arms..and people who sell almost no food and primarily alcohol get a big neighborhood hug -
More Than 825,000 Adults In New York City Do Not Have Bank Or Credit Union Accounts According To New Citywide Study http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/pr2010/pr_022510.shtml This article does not touch on the fact that banks are often unwilling to open branches in low income neighborhoods because they prefer to make money off of people with money. For example, by retaining the difference between the interest paid on a deposit account AND the amount received from a borrower. Meanwhile, (depending upon one's perspective) check cashing places, pawn shops, etc. either "fill the void", or "exploit the poor" by charging high interest rates (as discussed above). ...I predict the owners of said places have a pretty good sense of where they will be able to find people interested (or "desperate enough") to need their services.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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There's a chase bank on the corner of Bedford and EP, it's only a block away from Franklin. There's also a Capital One bank on Washington and Lincoln, also a short walk from Franklin. There's a Banco Popular on the corner of Nostrand and EP. There's a B of A on the corner of Kingston and EP. At restoration plaza you have Carver, Chase, and Citibank. The issue isn't a lack of banks that are accessible in this neighborhood it's that people don't use them.
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^^^ Correct. ....and, as per the link I posted, the NYC Dept of Consumer affairs has created a program to make banks accessible to those without much money. Which brings us back to places where one can get cash for items and jewelry ....such as a pawn shop or those "cash for gold" places. When I look at the google map I linked on the prior page, no clear pattern emerges: I would expect to see Pawn Shops clustered in low income areas, but I do not. Perhaps they are located where they meet the zoning codes ....it would be an interesting project to see how many pawn shops exist in areas that are not zoned for them. (but alas, I do not have the interest at the moment) More jabbering: Clearly there is some convenience to being able to sell stuff cheaply and quickly ...sure, one might be able to get better prices thru Craigslist but it seems some don't have a computer or, perhaps time. Maybe they don't want to meet with a stranger that has only send them an email stating "When can I come look at it?"For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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There is a pawn shop near the corner of Fulton and Franklin. If people need to sell jewelry or electronics, they can go there. It's 24 hours. The proprietor sleeps in the back, and all you need do is ring a bell to and he buzzes you in. I don't buy the 'we need a pawn shop' argument.
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Me either. ...but assuming the city doesn't close him down based on zoning problems, enough people might be willing to pay for the convenience of having one close to keep this place in business.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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I had a very interesting conversation with a few folk about some of the neighborhood banks. The general consensus is that there is some approximation of redlining going on. There are a number of merchants who have approached at least Chase bank, right there on Bedford and Eastern Parkway about garnering loans for enterprise, and they have been turned down. I heard a conversation about a business owner who has an account with Chase making attempt to go to that Chase bank for CHANGE, and they wouldn't give it to him. Granted, I am sure that there are a number of people who have poor money practices, but, is there no credence to the argument that despite the presence of a bank, there accessibility is lacking?
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Yes, the folks from About Time made this argument at last night's Crow Hill mtg. I'd have to know more about their credit rating, and the banking industry to comment on the validity of their claims re: not being able to get a loan. ....not being able to get change is a whole different matter....For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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From what I understand getting change is a service that banks charge commercial account holders for. By change I don't mean getting 4 quarters for a $1 bill but rather getting rolls of quarters, nickels, dimes and pennies. Since this is a service that banks offer to their business account holders I would be very surprised if a teller decided to refuse service to someone who walked in and wanted to pay for and use this service. On the other hand, if someone walked in asking to change a $10 bill into a roll of quarters and didn't want to pay for the service and/or had a non-business account I could see them being turned down.
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I don't claim to know what happened. ....I just claim that it is tough to figure out when people are "paying for convenience" vs when they are being "exploited". Rent-a-Center Payday Loans Pawn Shops Cash for Gold Instant Tax Rebate places ....all of them make profits off of a population that seems to: 1. Have no other alternative. AND/OR 2. Be willing to pay for convenience AND/OR 3. Not be real savy Whether you feel a solution is needed to these places depends upon which factor you think is dominant.... I tend to think there are some people in every category.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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It's my understanding that the person who wanted change has a business account with the Chase bank, and they have some obtuse protocol to offer such a service. It seems that if you want business, you would cater to those whom have an account with you. But, the Chase back apparently does not do that.
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I might be time for said business to take their business elsewhere. If they are bored, they could then send their monthly "Other Bank" statements to the Chase manager. I believe there are enough banks around that Cat 1 "no other alternative" does not apply. Based on her statements last night, I think we can assuredly rule out #2. ....and I do not want About Time to be part of Category 3: "Not real savy".For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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A weird thing happened at the laundromat: the price of washing clothes there jumped up 25 cents for the washers. I don't know if it also increased for the dryers. The cost of using the smaller machine was $1.75. Now it's 2 bucks. The price of the other machines are also up by 25 cents. I wonder, is it landlord's revenge, perhaps?
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Arches cover that with his Money Laundry nameFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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Maybe as was reported on the ILoveFranklinAvenue blog, the ownership of the pawnshop and the laundromat is the same entity, so to cover up their costs, they've increased it. What's weird is that it's 25 cents. In the days where laundromats used coins, a 25 cent jump would make sense, however in the era of using an electromagnetic card to pay for the privilege of paying for anything, price increases need not be in whole number units. I mean, if the cost went up 18.3 cents, that would make MORE sense to me than the fact that it went up 25 cents. A 25 cent increase seems ARBITRARY, as did the original cost of using a small machine: $1.75; why not $1.73, or $1.78? The price of using the washing machines at the newly-renovated laundromat closer to St. John's place is actually $1.75... Given the high turn over of machine usage at the Park Place laundromat, it's hard for me to not think that this is proprietor's revenge for off setting the costs of the now null and void pawn shop.
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Maybe he should just charge CHCA members more, cause they are his nemisis. He could take photos at meetings. I'd smile in my photo.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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I must admit, I'm disappointed none of my names for the place are going to be usedFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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