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Some Hasids don't like the CH newbies

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    1. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      Joined: Mar '06
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      ...it is, admittedly, a very slow news day.

      COLlive » From the COLlive Inbox: With landowners and investors attracting yuppies to Crown Heights, we need to do what Satmar is doing in Williamsburg. We already pay a premium to live in this neighborhood.

      Dear friends, landowners, community leaders and community members,

      I ask you to please take a moment and read this letter with an open heart.

      Demographic changes are swiftly changing the culture of our neighborhood. Local Lubavitch landowners and outside chassidic investors are making Crown Heights an attractive location for young, non Jewish tenants. In fact, it has come to attention that some investors are specifically targeting their advertising for this purpose. This is clearly seen with the new PLEX building Montgomery Street and Nostrand Avenue.

      Young, upwardly mobile professionals may seem to be pleasant tenants who bring in reliable income, but they also introduce a very different way of life: new nightclubs and bars, sun tanning on rooftops, bike lanes and an increasing amount of immodesty on our streets. Some of these changes are hard to ignore; for instance, one of the sun tanning parties are visible for our young children to see from the window of a local school.

      Rising rent compounds the problem and makes it even harder for our young couples and families to compete in the rental market.

      Friends, we pay a premium to live in this neighborhood, and we strive to create an atmosphere of holiness and kedusha for our children and teens. These yuppies bring pritzus to our neighborhood. They come out at night to our restaurants and act inappropriately while waiting on line etc.

      We would hope that landlords, especially the Crown Heights landlords, would put a priority on our values, but sadly the need to make money is taking precedence for them. Some young agents and landlords will specifically rent to these goyim instead of a fellow Jewish family. Sadly, some homeowners have gone as far as bringing these yuppies as tenants in their home in prime locations.

      Therefore, I suggest taking appropriate actions to help preserve the special the unique nature of our neighborhood.

      We must form a group to come up with effective ways to reinforce the observant Jewish character of crown heights. The Satmars in Williamsburg are faced with the same problem and have made a successful committee to curb this issue. This could include meeting with investors from our own community and possibly outside, subsidizing rent for our own community members or other creative solutions.

      Friends, I too am a landlord. Yes, it may seem easier to bring these young people as tenants. However, think about how they will change the face of our unique community In spiritual and physical sense. They are buying condos from our OWN landlords in the heart of the community. If we don't give precedence to our own couples and help our communities expand, Then who will?

      As a community we have survived through thick and thin. We have survived through the riots to help preserve our community. Why are we bringing in more outsiders with open hands?

      Please help us in defending the special, unique place that is Crown Heights for our children and their future.

      Thank you,
      A Crown Heights Resident

      source: http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18286&alias=take-back-our-neighborhood

      related jabbering and comments: http://gothamist.com/2012/01/24/hasidic_jewish_landlord_in_crown_he.php

      more: http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/01/have-the-yuppie-hasid-wars-come-to-crown-heights/#disqus_thread

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    2. rezist
      rezist

      getting it
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      If you choose to bury your head in man made fantastical religions go inside and pull your curtains tight. Why should I have to suffer ritualistically slaughtered animals in the park, or violent protests in front of planned parent hood offices, or a man dressed in black verbally abusing his wife in front of their three children on the train?

      I should have to suffer because I can't control which fantasy novel people choose to cherry pick from and live their lives by. We are free to live our lives in the manners we see fit.

    3. armchair_warrior
      armchair_warrior

      retsop cixelsyd
      Joined: Dec '05
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      all hardcore religious people are nuts.

      Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
      I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).
    4. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      AW-
      I don't think the hardcore religious are any worse than people who believe we should all be the same.

      It is sort of ironic that the only difference between the separatists and nationalists is which label one thinks is pejorative.

      Today's episode was once again brought to us by the terms "imperialism" and "assimilation".

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_imperialism

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_assimilation

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    5. User has not uploaded an avatar
      PragmaticGuy

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      If they want themselves to be in a ghetto then they need to wall off the community. I'm Jewish and frankly I'd say tough darts. The ultra religious try to pull this crap in Israel too and what they want is for everyone to bend to their will but they're not willing to compromise. The block where my office is, is mostly owned by Lubavitch and they are renting to hipsters as well. The point is, we're all whores as far as money is concerned. And most of the landlords in Crown Heights are Lubavitch.

    6. inpixels
      inpixels

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      For observational purposes, where are the suntanning "stations" ?

    7. the invisible lines
      The Invisible Lines

      getting it
      Joined: Jul '08
      Posts: 102

      Dear friends, landowners, community leaders and community members,

      I ask you to please take a moment and read this letter with an open heart. Unless you're an immodest whore.

      Sadly, ideologically progressive changes are swiftly destroying the archaic backwardness of "our" neighborhood. Local Lubavitch landowners and outside chassidic investors are making Crown Heights an attractive location for young, hedonistic tenants. In fact, it has come to attention that some investors are specifically targeting their advertising for this purpose. This is clearly seen with the new heathen harem on Montgomery Street and Nostrand Avenue.

      Young, upwardly mobile professionals may seem to be pleasant tenants who bring in reliable income, but don't be fooled by their friendly nature. These atheistic bastards introduce a very different way of life: new discos and brothels, sun tanning on rooftops (sun exposure is henceforth banned by God), bike lanes (biking is an historically devilish act, comparable to murder, rape, and letting a woman drive a car), and an increasing amount of filthy harlots on our streets (you know, the ones we constantly ogle in the subway). Some of these changes are hard to ignore; for instance, one of the sun tanning orgies are visible for our young children to see from the window of a local school, and God knows that visible sun tanning is a great corrupter of youths, and a provider of many of our pesky boners.

      Rising rent compounds the problem and makes it even harder for our young couples and families to compete in the rental market. It's as if we're being expelled from our own territory, and that's never fair in any situation. Oh, wait . . .

      Friends, we pay a premium to live in this neighborhood, and we strive to create an atmosphere of holiness and kedusha for our children and teens, just in case they had a mind to question ancient, foolish mythology. These yuppies bring progress to our neighborhood, which is forbidden. Like the vampires they are, they come out at night to our restaurants and act inappropriately while waiting on line etc. For example, they don't always form distinct queues, and I even saw one of these monsters smoking a cigarette once. Loitering outside of restaurants (and despicably paying for the food no less, bringing money into the neighborhood) is comparable -- if not worse -- than the behavior of our mortal enemies catcalling women from their stay-drunk stoops.

      We would hope that landlords, especially the Crown Heights landlords, would put a priority on our values (not allowing women to interact with men whom they are not married to, making them shave their heads, not allowing them to touch their husbands during menstruation and for a full week afterward, etc.) but sadly the need to make money is taking precedence for them. Some young agents and landlords will specifically rent to these goyim instead of a fellow Jewish family. Sadly, some homeowners have gone as far as bringing these yuppies as tenants in their home in prime locations. We can't have this sort of disgusting de-segregation.

      Therefore, I suggest taking appropriate actions to help preserve the special the unique nature of our neighborhood. Let's call this "The Final Solution." We need purity. Sameness. A perpetuation of religion's judgmental, oppressive, misogynistic, and altogether dangerous tenets.

      We must form a posse to come up with effective ways to reinforce the observant Jewish character of crown heights, and do all we can to stamp out -- possibly harm -- anyone who does not share our "values." The Satmars in Williamsburg are faced with the same problem and have made a successful committee to curb this issue. This could include meeting with investors from our own community and possibly outside, subsidizing rent for our own community members or other creative solutions. After all, we're just looking for fairness here. And what's fair is subsidizing our own rents and driving theirs through the roof so we can expel the tit-bearing demons once and for all. This neighorhood belongs to us. It's ours. Not theirs. They can have some territories in the really shitty parts of the borough. I also suggest building walls with checkpoints along Crown Heights' border.

      Friends, I too am a landlord. Yes, it may seem easier to bring these young people as tenants. However, think about how they will change the insular, extremist homogeneity of our unique community In spiritual and physical sense. They are buying condos from our OWN landlords (yes, OUR OWN!) in the heart of the community. This is wrong, because they don't have hearts. Only deep, black heathen wells that they fill with unspeakable respect for women and others who aren't like them. If we don't give precedence to our own couples and help our communities expand (but only expand by our standards and definitions), Then who will?

      As a community we have survived through thick and thin. We have survived through the riots to help preserve our community (that's right, we didn't participate in them at all . . .). Why are we bringing in more outsiders with open hands? That's one of the gravest sins I can imagine.

      Please help us in defending the special, unique place that is Crown Heights for our children and their future. The only foreseeable way for us to do that is by eliminating specialness and uniqueness.

      Thank you,
      A Crown Heights Idiot

    8. domino
      Domino

      Putting the FUN in Dysfunctional
      Joined: Nov '08
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      I truly hate the "I was here first" attitude. Although there is confrontation between hipster and Hasid in the Williamsburg area (I seem to remember some bike lane issues), who designated Williamsburg as a Hasidic only area? There has been a steady transition from working class Polish, Italian and Hispanic to Hasidic. That does not mean that now the area is designated as a finished never to change again. Brooklyn (and all the other boros) are always changing - neighborhood by neighborhood. Sunset Park - originally Scandinavian - then Irish - now Asian and Hispanic. Bay Ridge - similarly Scandinavian - then Irish - then Greek - now Arabic. I could go on and on - from Fort Greene to Bed Stuy to Canarsie to Coney Island. Nothing stays the same. Although certain groups have resided within each, not one group has staked a claim for all eternity. There may have been incidents of exclusionism and downright racism but somehow these stupidities were overcome.

      Boro Park is similarly a primarily Hasidic area - is there as much confrontation there with the Asian community? Is it because the dollars at stake are not as high? Some of the younger Asian kids dress just as hip/revealing as the CH or Williamsburg counterparts. It all boils down to the almighty dollar.

      If the Hasidim want to live in an insular setting, the most populated city is perhaps not the right area. Monsey and Deal are fully separated (right down to the police force) and the Hasidim can dictate dress, interaction, etc. at will. If they want to bend other members of their sect to their will by all means let them subsidize each other.

      Just do not dictate as to what I can wear, what I can do or where I can live. Just checking - we are still a democracy - right?

      WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?
    9. homeowner
      homeowner

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      In my opinion Hassids actually are more comfortable living around racial minorities (blacks, hispanics and asians) than they are whites. Its easier to keep separate, to maintain the sense within the community of the "otherness" of their neighbors, to view "those people" as being representative of all of the negatives while "we" display all of the positives.

      Living around whites (and especially in my opinion other Jews) creates a situation of constantly having to be on guard for creeping influences. Suddenly its harder to explain the differences. Its more work for them, and more tempatation. For example, its easy to explain to the police why a community like the CH of the 80's needed its own private Jewish police force. But imagine trying to make that arguement if 770 were instead located on PPW or 5th Avenue in Manhattan.

      Greater diversity in the community creates for that community, in an odd way, greater danger. What makes this tragic is that when the same language was directed at their Carribean and African neighbors, it was completely understandable by those outside the community. But now that its focus is bike riders, nude sunbathers, and loud drunks, it's all of a sudden become the type of discrimination that needs to be addressed head-on.

      Frankly, I think the whole thing is kind of laughable.

    10. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      So far, the letter writer is upset that newbies have been able to move into the historically Lubavitch area, but seems to attribute it to them having more money.

      However, it would not surprise me if a devoted pro-segregationist used the Fair Housing Laws to their advantage.

      The basis of the suit would be that a landlord had a pattern of choosing non-Lubavitch childless couples, OVER Lubavitch families with children.

      To do this, the plaintiff would have to show that the setting was one in which Fair Housing Laws applied, and that prospective tenants had similar incomes and credit ratings.

      In theory, the landlord accused of the discrimination could be Lubavitch, and the plaintiffs and their attorneys could receive a large payment.

      Given the $ incentive and a preference for a "pure" neighborhood, a clever lawyer would not hesitate to provide young, low income Lubavitch families with assistance: They would help them inflate their income and credit ratings.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    11. User has not uploaded an avatar
      PragmaticGuy

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      I doubt that would happen as the Lubavitch don't want to live in the same buildings as non-religious people. Remember, they don't use the elevators on Saturdays, they couldn't build their Sukkahs in public spaces outside on that holiday and they'd probably make it hell for anyone who wasn't religious to live with them. So, their conundrum is, that until someone breaks the law there's nothing they can do about it.
      By the way, in Cedarhurst, out on the island, which is also a huge orthodox community, they basically told most of the store owners that if they didn't close on Saturday, they wouldn't shop there during the week. So, effectively they shut down most of the town.

    12. rezist
      rezist

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      Didn't Hitler want a "pure" singular environment as well?

    13. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      PG-
      Blue laws have a long history in the US. Sometimes they are actually on the books and enforced by government, other times they are just "laws" that have other methods of enforcement.

      I think we should also talk about Homeowner's post.

      Above, I dreamed of becoming a lawyer and getting rich by making Lubavitch families appear wealthier than they may be so that they could live in the same area.

      I don't find it all hard to imagine that for decades there have been potential tenants who have income and credit ratings equal to (or higher than) the tenants who have actually received leases in the Frum Zone.

      As homeowner alludes, those families were Caribbean and African. They unsuccessfully sought the same attributes as the "newbies":

      good, prewar real estate

      a homicide rate that is consistently lower that the surrounding areas
      (Look at the almost murder-free zone surrounded by carnage!)

      good transportation

      etc.

      However, I suspect these families never even applied for the housing because they knew they would be turned down.

      Rezist-
      You've correctly found the sad irony.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    14. domino
      Domino

      Putting the FUN in Dysfunctional
      Joined: Nov '08
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      I too find it somewhat laughable since as a fat ass grandma (albeit retired 70's party animal) I could be seen as a major threat to the moral fibers of the Hasidic community. Yet someone who might be a member of the Latin Kings is no problem.

      I believe that many of the Hasidic men are encouraged to pursue rabbinical studies (not well paying as far as I know) or work with companies that will allow them liberal time off for many religious holidays - again, not a wage bonanza. Given the number of children and limited education it also appears that there would be limited opportunities for Hasidic women to earn much. How would the credit scores and ability to pay a higher rent compare to that of the double income no kids newbies? I doubt if they had equal credit scores and/or reportable incomes. If there were leases granted in the "FRUM ZONE" I suspect it was not on a fair basis.

      Interestingly enough, how do the Hasidim proposes to keep out the influences of the internet and cell phones? Apparently there are quite the number of "pure" Hasidic girls sexting some provacative photos - knees and elbows (and then some) for full viewing. Yep. Its those darn hipsters influencing them. Blame EVERYTHING on them. Not the overly oppressive community itself. Geez - even the Amish get to go on Rumspringer.

      WHY am I always the meat in the middle of an imbecile sandwich?
    15. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      I think what is so elusive about utopia, is that it loses many of its qualities when it is forced upon people.

      I also find it refreshing that capitalism is (in this instance) a force that promotes integration, as opposed to creating separation.

      Pro tip for everyone: The trick to building a solid nation, religion, or exclusive neighborhood or club is managing to convince (or intimidate) the people around you into believing that they should fore go their self interest in favor of the larger group.

      Better yet, convince them that their self interest is equal to that of the group's!

      While perfecting these strategies, history shows it is good to have a thick skin: Folks who try to build a nation or a religion are often accused of oppression by those who have not yet been "convinced".

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    16. homeowner
      homeowner

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      I doubt that would happen as the Lubavitch don't want to live in the same buildings as non-religious people. Remember, they don't use the elevators on Saturdays, they couldn't build their Sukkahs in public spaces outside on that holiday and they'd probably make it hell for anyone who wasn't religious to live with them.

      When I was growing up the Hassidim were just starting to move into public housing projects in Williamsburg. When I would go to visit family friends on the weekends, it was not unusual for the families to come knocking on the door asking for someone to push the elevator buttons for them or turn their lights off or on if they were running late during the sabbath. While the families remained very insular, the women often cultivated relationships with their neighbors for these kinds of activities. Nowadays I hear that those same projects have sabbath elevators, so these kinds of relationships are no longer necessary. Indeed, one of my friends told me that the project that he grew up in which was primarily black and hispanic, is now predominantly Hassidim with just a few older black and hispanic residents remaining.

      To Whynot's point, I believe that many of the adults that do work full time, work at businesses that are owned and operated by other members of the tribe, so getting someone to falsify earnings or pay stubs isn't nearly as hard as you think.

    17. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      I'm no expert on the Fair Housing laws, but I think they don't apply if the building has less than 6 units. Meaning, a landlord can rent a five unit building to tenants of their choosing, without having to worry about lawsuits.

      ....of course, there are more effective means of effectively social norms. Some of them are much uglier than others.

      It isn't uncommon for landlords who rent to "undesirable" tenants in a "pure" area to receive threats. The threats are effective because landlords are just like the rest of us, they will often for-go a profit to save themselves from violence.

      I think we will have these situations until everyone has the same amount of power and money, and/or no preferences. (this is a phenomena that I perceive as being such a part of human nature, that I think it will be with us until the end of time)

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    18. whatchuwant
      Whatchuwant

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      That email very clearly suggests breaking the law via the Fair Housing Act.

      The 1968 act expanded on previous acts and prohibited discrimination concerning the sale, rental, and financing of housing based on race, religion, national origin, and since 1974, gender; since 1988, the act protects people with disabilities and families with children. It also provided protection for civil rights workers.

      Foolish.

      "...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa
    19. User has not uploaded an avatar
      reader

      getting it
      Joined: May '07
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      I had relatives that lived in Teaneck since the 1950's which turned ultra orthodox, the shopowners on Cedar Lane were told (even if they were not Jewish) that they most close on Saturdays and holidays or else.

      My aunt (Italian Catholic) was blocked in her driveway on her way to a doctors appointment by a group of people that refused to move because she was driving on Rosh Hashonah.

      Extremism in religion is not attractive no matter if the sect is Christian, Jewish or Muslim. The line between a sect and a cult is very fine and it seems to be crossed frequently.

    20. User has not uploaded an avatar
      HurricaneKate

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      Remember that Crown Heights was most Irish Italian in the 40's, what happened then? This is a loose translation of hood history. They gradually moved and made way for Jamaicans, Jews, etc. Was there any bossy dictate then? Likely not.
      I remember when I moved to Crown Heights ten years ago, a Jewish man said "there goes the neighborhood"...then walking on Franklin Ave. shortly thereafter, an African American said "You're in the wrong hood, lady". Here I am, ten years later, quite happy with where I am.....and will always be no matter who says what.
      Hopefully some wise Rebbe will set all straight with Mr. Anonymous....hmmm...

    21. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      The letter I posted above first appeared on a website that caters to Crown Heights orthodox community, http://www.collive.com/index.rtx

      CrownHeights.info is a different website that also caters to "the community". However, "their" commenters seem to distance themselves from the views of the letter writer, and express a much greater degree of tolerance of persons who are different.

      Do we have any readers who know whether the blogs cater to different sects?

      Do you have a sense whether they cater to different age groups?

      Different education/income groups?

      Or, do the websites merely cater to people with different opinions on what is the best way to effectively practice their faith?

      In case it needs to be said: Just because people dress the same, doesn't mean they are the same.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    22. User has not uploaded an avatar
      jarvis

      getting it
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      Whatchuwant said:
      That email very clearly suggests breaking the law via the Fair Housing Act.

      The 1968 act expanded on previous acts and prohibited discrimination concerning the sale, rental, and financing of housing based on race, religion, national origin, and since 1974, gender; since 1988, the act protects people with disabilities and families with children. It also provided protection for civil rights workers.

      Foolish.

      And in New York, fair housing laws have also been passed to protect sexual orientation. I was actually surprised that the letter didn't have any direct anti-gay rhetoric as a lot of the folks moving into CH are on the queer spectrum. I wonder if that even gets processed..

      Related: If you haven't read the article about Basil that was in the NYT a while ago - I'd recommend it.

    23. armchair_warrior
      armchair_warrior

      retsop cixelsyd
      Joined: Dec '05
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      Housing discrimination is real, This happen to my family and my friends when we were trying to buy in gravesend and bensonhurst. back in the early 90's some old jewish folks and italians wouldn't sell when they discover we were chinese.

      they were afraid we would destroy the housing value of the area and they still have friends on the block. we didn't bother with it, just kept on looking and brought places. they were old school folks not gonna bother with them.

      Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
      I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure).
    24. whynot_31
      whynot_31

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      The process of choosing a tenant is fraught, especially when the landlord and tenant do not share the same characteristics: race, sexual orientation, etc.

      There's a lot advice out there on how landlords can effectively screen prospective tenants, while avoiding the perception of discrimination, and the potential of related lawsuits.

      I apologize for the long cut and paste, but Landlord.com seems to provide good advice:

      Why is tenant screening so important?

      The flip side of renting out real estate is not renting out real estate, i.e., vacancies. When you have a vacancy, no one is paying for that empty space but you, through your mortgage, insurance, and all the expenses that go with making sure the place does not collapse through neglect. But filling a vacancy is easy. Filling a vacancy with a tenant who will pay the rent on time, not annoy neighbors, and keep the property in decent shape is not so easy.

      In order to weed out prospects that are likely to become headaches in the future, you need a plan. This plan is your system for screening the prospects. Without a plan you are just taking a shot in the dark. In addition, given the current state of the law, it is illegal to treat applicants differently on the basis of race, sex, religion, and other characteristics. A plan that you follow consistently will help you avoid getting into difficulty for doing this, or seeming to do it.

      I don’t want to rent to certain kinds of people, how do I avoid renting to them legally?

      None of us want to rent to certain kinds of people, such as those who have a history of not paying their bills or of damaging their rental units. If you want help avoiding these kinds of persons, read on and be sure to explore the rest of our site thoroughly. We will point you in the right direction.

      If you have something else in mind, then stop reading; you are wasting your time so you might just as well leave now. We support compliance with the Fair Housing laws and all other laws. We may complain about them or even ridicule them from time to time, and we may counsel our visitors to work for needed changes, but we urge compliance, even if not cheerful, with all laws, and do not counsel efforts to evade them. You will find nothing here to help you engage in invidious discrimination.

      Can I refuse to rent to someone just because I don’t like him or he makes me feel uncomfortable?

      Initially, you decide who you should rent to, and who you should not rent to, and at what rent. You may use any criteria you desire to make these decisions, provided they are not the wrong criteria. The wrong criteria are those that are proscribed by law, and they vary from state to state. Prohibited in all states is the refusal to rent because of ethnic background, race, religion, sex, sexual proclivity, age, marital status, or income source. You should check the laws of your individual state to see what other criteria may be prohibited. You can do this in the landlord law section.

      In the abstract, provided the source of your discomfort is not one of the prohibited criteria, we see no legal reason why you could not refuse to rent to someone because of a general anxiety about the person. But while this is metaphysically true, it is practically false. If you make a screening decision based on a criterion as vague as the one you describe, then you open yourself up to a charge of invidious discrimination, whether you intended it to be so or not. The person disqualified, if he is a member of one of the protected classes, should he learn that you rented to one financially or otherwise less qualified, will naturally be inclined to ascribe the refusal to rent to him to his protected class status. In the absence of a concrete reason, you will be very hard pressed to justify your decisions on other grounds. You could well be held liable for discrimination on prohibited grounds even though the belief you so discriminated is mistaken, only because you look so guilty.

      If this is a serious concern to you, particularly if you are thinking of renting out a portion of your residence to another, you might want to consult with a lawyer who can tell you what you can and cannot do. Many jurisdictions have exemptions for small landlords, or those who share their residences with others. While this does not justify racial or other immoral discrimination, and we do not condone it, it does give you a little more freedom to indulge gut instincts such as you describe.

      Where do I look for laws about screening prospects?

      Those laws that most heavily affect tenant screening are the Fair Housing laws, general anti-discrimination laws, and the credit reporting laws. In addition, in some jurisdictions, there are laws that control what type of rental arrangement you may demand of a prospect, which may limit, say, your ability to compensate for marginal qualifications with an increased deposit or advance rental payment. Because of our system of government, laws and regulations concerning these can be enacted by the Federal government; the 50 state governments and the District of Columbia, plus Puerto Rico and other territories; the 3000+ county governments; and who knows how many regional, city, town, village, and borough governments.

      Federal and state laws can be found using the search engines and other materials in our Landlord Law section. For the lower levels of government, you will need to resort to local law libraries, other Internet resources, direct contact with the relevant governing bodies, and attorneys.

      Do not rely on books designed for a national audience. These are much to general to be of help in your particular jurisdiction. Do not rely on your local apartment association or real estate persons unless you know they have consulted with an attorney on the subject. Even then, be skeptical.

      Because of all of the permutations of such requirements, due to the number of jurisdictions involved, we are, regretfully, unable to put all the requirements on this site.

      landlord.net » How do I choose among qualified prospects without being accused of breaking a law?

      In the first place, keep in mind what your standards are. Your standards are the minimum requirement for entry into your property. Meeting them does not guarantee a prospect that you will rent to him.

      Assuming you are in the happy position of having several qualified applicants from which to choose, there are three ways to make the final decision that make sense:

      1. use some arbitrary or random method, or

      2. have the applicants bid against one another, or

      3. select the most qualified applicant.

      Many advocate the first method as a means of avoiding invidious discrimination claims. Indeed, some in the civil rights industry claim it is legally mandated, although no one has ever been able to point to anything specific on the subject. Basically, one avoids being accused of making an illegal decision by abdicating the decision making process to some event outside of the landlord’s control. Examples might be first to apply or a coin flip. While this is certainly a method of resolving the problem, it is no guarantee that you will be safe from claims of discrimination. It only shifts the debate to the method you used to decide among the qualified applicants. Use it if you like, but it is not a substitute for keeping good records and understanding the discrimination laws. It has the distinct disadvantage that you might by the luck of the draw have to accept a marginally qualified Caucasian applicant and reject a highly qualified one of African descent who then charges discrimination, leaving you with the worst of both worlds.

      A second way to make this decision is to use good old capitalist methods. This would be to inform the applicants that there are several who have qualified and that you will rent to the one who makes the best offer of rent, security deposit, and length of lease, not less than that advertised. This has been done, usually in very tight housing markets, but we know no one who has done it. It has pitfalls that should be obvious, and we mention it only for the sake of completeness.

      The third way to make this decision is to compare the qualified applicants, then rank the applications in the order of their qualifications, and select the most highly qualified. We know of no legal reason not to do this, and it makes a lot of sense. It is analogous to the hiring process. You must be sure to document with a memorandum exactly how you arrive at the final decision.

      In all cases, you should keep all applications, even the ones you rejected, as a record of what you have done.

      Should I screen relatives and friends?

      Yes, definitely. It is a cliché that the nastiest disputes are between relatives and former friends. You will need the information you verify through credit checks, etc., whether you are friends with the prospect or not. Whether you lower your standards to help out a friend or relative is up to you, but at minimum you should have the information on hand, just in case.

      How long should I take to screen my prospects?

      This is a balancing act. You do not want to be rushed into making a decision or out of verifying information, but at the same time you are trying to close sale, so you do not want the prospect’s enthusiasm for the unit to wane, and it will, with time.

      First, try to turn your applications around within about two days. Most people will be willing to wait at least this long. Tell those who, on the face of their applications, are not qualified as soon as possible, so they can look elsewhere.

      Second, if you are going to do something like leave applications open for a week or so, in order to accumulate a selection of applicants, tell the applicants that, and give them an estimate of when they can expect to hear back. Most people don’t mind waiting a little while as long as they know what is going on. A person who would not stand for waiting a week or ten days in the dark might be quite willing to do so if he knows that there is a reason for it and what is going on.

      Under no circumstances should you cut corners in order to save time. If some information on an application turns out to be unverifiable within a reasonable time, decide if that information is really important to you. If it is, reject the applicant and tell him the reason. He may be able to resolve the problem for his next application.

      Do I need to worry about illegal immigrants?

      At present – April, 2002 – there is no requirement for a landlord to make any sort of inquiry into a prospect’s residence status as there is for a prospective employer. Indeed, many more radical local jurisdictions may take the view that such inquiry is a veiled form of ethnic discrimination. Some countries, such as Singapore, do require such inquiry, and such a requirement may be on the way since 9/11. However, current law does proscribe knowingly harboring illegal immigrants.

      There is such a thing as TMI (Too Much Information). As of now, our best opinion would be not to ask at all, and stick to checking ID. If the ID is not in order, that is a compelling reason to refuse even to accept an application. Let the applicant go in peace. If you come to suspect later that the tenant is illegal, then you will have to decide whether to inform the INS or keep your suspicions to yourself. That is your call, and under the present state of the law we cannot say that you are under any duty to make such a report. If you are really concerned about this, then have a consultation with an immigration lawyer because immigration is a specialty unto itself. Otherwise, call the INS for advice, although this is definitely a second best option. Either way, be sure to document the advice you receive.

      Should I do a criminal background check on my prospects?

      Opinion on this is not unanimous. Some landlords do them and some do not. Here are the pros and cons.

      It is certainly nice to know if your prospect is a registered sex offender or has a background of violent behavior that has led to arrest and conviction. It is a service to other, law abiding prospects and the prospect of having such a check done may deter many with criminal records, and force others to be forthcoming about their past.

      Criminal background checks are not a cure-all, however. In the first place, there is no centralized national database, as there is for most credit transactions, that can be viewed by those not engaged in law enforcement. This means that a background check has to be done on a county-by-county basis, in most cases. In order for the background check to be useful, you must have a handle on what county the prospect has lived in and check not only that but surrounding counties. Felons do not usually restrict their activities to their home counties. For this and other reasons, criminal background checks also take a long time compared to credit checks, which can often be done in minutes or hours.

      There is also the question of TMI, Too Much Information. In at least some states, such as California, it is unlawful to discriminate against an individual for criminal convictions that do not relate to the thing being applied for. For example, it would be justified for a bank to refuse a teller position to one who was convicted of embezzlement, but it would be harder for a landlord to justify a refusal to rent for this reason. By doing a criminal background check, you might open your self up to a claim of discrimination if you reject the applicant, even if it is for another reason.

      The jury is still out on the utility of criminal background checks, and while we spent more time on the cons than the pros, you should not take this as an indication that we recommend against them. You need to find your own comfort zone, and if doing criminal background checks makes you more comfortable and feel more diligent, then you should do them.

      What is “steering” and how do I avoid it? Why should I avoid it?

      Steering is the practice of driving a tenant to a particular unit because you believe he is best suited for it, or discouraging him from a unit he is interested in because you do not think he is well suited for it. It is usually understood that the motivation for the steering is some basis that makes the prospect part of a protected class, such as race, religion, and the like, but this is not always so.

      There are two sound reasons for avoiding steering. The first is that it is just, plain arrogant. Let the prospect decide what is best for him. The second reason is that it is illegal, if done for illegal reasons, that is, because of the applicant’s race, family arrangement, sexual preference, disability, and so on. Examples would be steering a blind applicant away from an apartment with a view, or trying to get a wheel chair bound individual to take a ground floor apartment.

      Avoidance of steering, however, does not mean you cannot show off what you have available, or use the information you have about a prospect to show units you think will be most attractive. By all means, tout the features and benefits of your available units in a way best calculated to sell the prospect. The key is to let the prospect decide, and highlight the features and benefits, not the prospects disabilities, or race, etc.

      Do I need to run a credit check?

      Yes, always. Even if you are renting to a friend or relative you need to run a credit check. For one thing, you should treat all of your prospects alike to avoid claims of invidious discrimination. For another, even the tightest friendships and relationships may break down. Even if you have decided to rent to a relative regardless of credit status, you do not know what your relationship will be, say, a year from now, and you may need the information in the report to help collect unpaid rent.

      It goes without saying that if you need to run credit for friends and relatives, you need to run it on total strangers. Even if you do not take credit blemishes too seriously, the information you develop in a credit report is a valuable cross check on the information given in the balance of the application, and can verify it for you, or show you your prospect is lying.

      What if the credit check shows a delinquency?

      A credit check needs to be read, as you would read a book or magazine article, and the information considered as a whole. There are not many people who do not have any credit blemishes. Even if you have a prospect who has none, his obligation to pay rent to you might end up being his first. The credit history will show a pattern, as most such things do. Does the pattern show over-all responsible use of credit and a reasonable history of paying voluntary obligations on time? If there were delinquencies, did the applicant cause them, or did something unforeseeable put him in a tight spot from which he has recovered? View the applicant’s credit history, and delinquencies, if any, in this light.

      How do I find out how my prospect acted as a tenant in the past?

      There are two good sources of information on this. The first is former landlords, and the second is an agency that checks for a history of evictions, something that does not always appear on a credit report.

      You should discount heavily what a current landlord has to say about your prospect. The current landlord may be giving a glowing reference because he wants the tenant out, or he may be damning your prospect with faint praise because he does not want him to move. The best source is a previous landlord. These are people and companies that no longer have any interest in seeing the prospect stay or leave, and so are more likely to be objective. You should also be aware that some companies always give a neutral reference, or refuse to give one at all, as a matter of policy.

      Checking on your prospect with an agency that reports eviction proceedings is a good policy if there is a reliable one for your area. As with criminal background checks, this sort of report has not become as institutionalized as have credit checks. Also as with credit checks, they must be considered as a whole. It is not automatically the tenant’s fault if an eviction proceeding is filed against him. Not only are there bad landlords out there, but there are also bad laws. In some jurisdictions, such as San Francisco, an eviction proceeding might be filed purely as an insurance policy under their rent control law, even if the tenant is cooperating to vacate the premises to make it available for a relative of the landlord or for renovation, for example. Also, lawsuits like this are checked at the court clerk’s office, and are identified by name, not by Social Security number, as are most credit accounts. It is not only possible, but also common, for an individual to have evictions appear on his report only because his name is similar to the person actually evicted. When you obtain such a report and it shows a match, you should call the landlord who initiated the proceeding and verify you are talking about the same person.

      How can I be sure about an employment reference?

      This is a difficult problem. It is fairly easy to fake an employment reference. Some employers will not give them at all. Others will give only employment status as of the time you call, and will omit any further information, such as a pending resignation, etc. As a precaution, we recommend you not dial a “direct” number to the individual’s supervisor. It is too easy to scam this procedure through prearrangement with someone who actually does work at the company. If told to contact a supervisor, do so, but do it through the switchboard. Contact the personnel office, if possible, also. Of course, in small businesses the switchboard, personnel office, and immediate supervisor might be one in the same. In this case, you need to play it by ear. You can also ask to see recent pay stubs.

      What is the best application form to use?

      There is no best application form. The one you should use is the one that gives you all the information you need to feel comfortable renting to the prospect, and not a bit more. If you routinely accept applications with blanks, then you are asking for more than you need, and you should stop asking the questions you can do without.

      We have application forms available in our eForms section. They have been prepared by experienced property managers and reviewed by experienced lawyers.

      Why do I need to keep all the paperwork I generate?

      Most of the people who apply for your rental unit are going to be disappointed, and some of those will be mad. You need a record of everything you did to make the decision to rent so that if anyone should claim you acted for an illegal reason you can show you did not.

      You also will need to refer to the information in the future. Decision points will come even in the best of landlord-tenant relationships. Having reliable information on your tenants at your fingertips will make decision making easier and less error prone.

      How long should I keep the paperwork?

      Forever.

      source: http://www.landlord.com/qts_faqs.htm

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    25. User has not uploaded an avatar
      Park Place

      I will always love Park Place
      Joined: Oct '09
      Posts: 122

      rezist said:
      Didn't Hitler want a "pure" singular environment as well?

      Horrific thing to say. Evil and shocking.

      “When he shall die, take him and cut him out in little stars and he will make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love with night and pay no worship to the garish sun.”

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