The Coffee Shop Deathwatch Thread

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The Coffee Shop Deathwatch Thread

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whynot_31
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Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

I think of a coffee shop as a business that primarily makes its revenue from the sale of coffee, as opposed to food.

A bunch of coffee shops have opened up in Western Crown Heights (between Washington and Nostrand Ave) area over the past 3 years or so.

While I would love for them all to survive for the next 12 months, I am not optimistic. That said, here's my list of the coffee shops in the area:

Novelle Vag: On Lincoln, near Classon
Park Place Coffee: On Park Pl, near Franklin
Pulp and Bean: On Franklin, near EP
Breukelyn: On Franklin, near St Johns
Little Zeldas: On Franklin, near Sterling
Glass Shop: On Classon, near St, Johns
Crosby: On Classon, near Bergen
Penny House Cafe: On Washington, near Park Pl
Washington Bagel Cafe: On Washington, near Dean
Sit and Wonder: On Washington, near St Marks
Coffee Bites: On Washington, near St. Johns
Richol Cafe: On Nostrand, near Pacific
Pacific Oasis Cafe: On Pacific, near Nostrand
CT Muffin: On Nostrand, near Bergen

http://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=coffee&find_loc=Prospect+Heights%2C+Brooklyn%2C+NY#l=p:NY:New_York:Brooklyn:Crown_Heights

Bruekelyn and Little Zelda's have beer and wine licenses, so they have a slightly larger customer base in my opinion.

If you want to, you can state which ones you believe will be here in Jan 2014 and, if I remember, I will dust off this thread and see if we are correct.

It is possible that we could have all of these coffee shops and MORE, but it kind of boggles my mind.

Here are my predictions for 2013:
Two ADDITIONAL coffee shops will open on Nostrand.

Two of the existing coffee shops on Washington, Classon or Franklin will either close or morph into a business that no longer obtains most of its revenue from coffee.

Breukelyn coffee house seems as if it is on an active track to become a more of a wine/beer/coffee bar lounge as we speak.....

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
Park Place
I will always love Park Place
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 122

Wow, this is cold. Whew!

“When he shall die, take him and cut him out in little stars and he will make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love with night and pay no worship to the garish sun.”

# Posted 3 mos ago
xlizellx
rocking it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,579

I predict...

CLOSE - Novelle Vag: On Lincoln, near Classon
CHANGE BUSINESS MODEL (sandwiches maybe?)-Park Place Coffee: On Park Pl, near Franklin
STAY OPEM - Pulp and Bean: On Franklin, near EP
STAY OPEN (although I am NOT a fan at all) -Breukelyn: On Franklin, near St Johns
STAY OPEN-Little Zeldas: On Franklin, near Sterling
STAY OPEN-Glass Shop: On Classon, near St, Johns
CLOSE-Crosby: On Classon, near Bergen
CLOSE-Penny House Cafe: On Washington, near Park Pl
CLOSE-Washington Bagel Cafe: On Washington, near Dean
STAY OPEN-Sit and Wonder: On Washington, near St Marks
STAY OPEN-Coffee Bites: On Washington, near St. Johns
CHANGE TO SERVE MORE FOOD-Richol Cafe: On Nostrand, near Pacific
CHANGE TO BE MORE BAKERY-Pacific Oasis Cafe: On Pacific, near Nostrand
STAY OPEN-CT Muffin: On Nostrand, near Bergen

# Posted 3 mos ago
goldemi
rookie newb
Joined: Nov '11
Posts: 17

Nouvelle Vag is top of my list as 'close'. Crosby I'd predict stays open...always seems to have a flow of people when I go by...just wish they served some food and beer/wine at night (its a nice space)

# Posted 3 mos ago
dmiami
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 164

Note to Pulp and Bean 2, not one of the above mentioned is south of EP.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

While the southside of EP is presently a slightly different market, I think Pulp and Bean 2 will do well "over there".

Dunkin Donuts at Nostrand and EP should likely be added to my list, and is often full...

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
steveo
getting it
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 199

I think of a coffee shop as the place where Jerry Seinfield used to hang out. A place that mainly sells coffee is a café. Counterintuitive.

# Posted 3 mos ago
wbm
what am I, new?
Joined: Jan '13
Posts: 7

Nouvelle Vag will definitely close within the year. That place sucks. Bad coffee, unfriendly staff, no place to sit and work.

Crosby is great and I think they will remain open and continue to do well.

Glass Shop, Pulp & Bean, Breukelyn, Little Zelda, Coffee Bites, and Sit and Wonder will all stay open and continue to thrive. They each have their niche, and seem to have loyal customers.

I keep my fingers crossed for Lincoln Station (same owner as Bar Corvo). It will be a coffee and breakfast place in the mornings, and I think it will open soon.

# Posted 3 mos ago
newguy88
what am I, new?
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 170

Breukelyn, I really wish it would go. I have never set foot in a more unwelcoming coffee shop. Heck even the customers are rude! But I suspect that the hipsters that infest the place will keep it going.

As for the rest of the list:
Novelle Vag- Close
Little Zelda- Open
Glass Shop- open. But I think their coffee isn't as good as it once was.
Pulp and Bean- Open
Connecticut Muffin- Open
Sit and Wonder- Open
Coffee Bits- Open

# Posted 3 mos ago
xlizellx
rocking it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 1,579

newguy88 said:
Breukelyn, I really wish it would go. I have never set foot in a more unwelcoming coffee shop. Heck even the customers are rude! But I suspect that the hipsters that infest the place will keep it going.

Agreed

# Posted 3 mos ago
earthfromspace
what am I, new?
Joined: Jan '13
Posts: 2

Breukelyn is truly some awful Williamsburg spore that floated down Bedford and took root in Crown Heights. After living in the neighborhood for a year, and on the day I was moving to a new place a few blocks down from my old apartment, I decided to pop into Breukelyn and get breakfast for all the friends/family helping with the move. The barista allowed myself and 2 other patrons to line up, apparently on the wrong side of the bar, and refused to acknowledge us. Finally after 3 minutes or so, he told us the ordering line was on the other side of the bar. We moved over. When it got to be my turn, he just looked at me said "you have a groupon right?". Never again.

# Posted 3 mos ago
Capt. Planet
Life is for the living, so let's get it on!
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 930

Personally I love narly stuff which is what I consider Breukelen. I'm reminded of why I like Breukelen every time I go to Starbucks.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

As alluded to above, I think the ones that try to make ends meet only by selling coffee are going to have the hardest time, because their is so much direct competition.

Breukelen and Little Zelda are innovating by adding beer and wine. What amazes me is that few (if any) of these places adapt to the warmer months.

...if a coffee shop invested in an Icee machine I would buy Slurpee type drinks from them all summer long.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
BobMarvin
getting it
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 167

You guys north of Empire Blvd. are lucky. Down here in PLG we had no real coffee shop for many months after K-Dog closed in 2011 and again after Blue Roost closed; we finally have a good one once again since Tugboat opened a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if I could cope with actually having to CHOOSE

# Posted 3 mos ago
thecameralady
a real native.
Joined: Jun '07
Posts: 35

BobMarvin said:
You guys north of Empire Blvd. are lucky. Down here in PLG we had no real coffee shop for many months after K-Dog closed in 2011 and again after Blue Roost closed; we finally have a good one once again since Tugboat opened a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if I could cope with actually having to CHOOSE

I was sad when K-Dog closed down for good. Blue Roost didn't last long at all.

# Posted 3 mos ago
Chekhovian
getting it
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 173

I know Skazzy is not a standard coffee shop, but the possibility of it closing (who has ever seen a person eating there?) will have a big impact on what drops off the original list. I can foresee that location on a busy intersection as very tempting to a franchise. Starbucks wouldn't be the only potential buyer.

# Posted 3 mos ago
DL
what am I, new?
Joined: Jan '13
Posts: 7

Any word on the second Pulp and Bean south of EP? Haven't heard anything for a while, but I saw some people checking out that storefront a few weeks ago...

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

To my knowledge, P&B 2 is still going happen.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
DL
what am I, new?
Joined: Jan '13
Posts: 7

Any idea what the timeline is? Or any other details? Us south-of-the-border people would love to know!

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

The owner posted this about a month ago:

pulpandbean said:
FYI, just ordered fixtures for the cafe. Look for the opening soon. I am also looking employ some Brooklyn talent. If any one is interested please stop by Bob & Betty's

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
pulpandbean
getting it
Joined: Apr '10
Posts: 54

Hello from rainy Jerusalem. I am away visiting the folks. I should be back no later than a month (I miss my customers a lot). Lots of work is being done in my absence. Opening the shop is going to be my first order of business upon my return. Look for the sign and awning to go up sometime soon. Ttyl

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

(I do love it when our members continue to post even when they are out town!
....I posted when I was Singapore a few years ago)

But I want to stay on topic.

I think the coffee shops that are run by inexperienced proprieters are those most at risk. They are often unable to see when they are not doing a good job, and keep believing things will get better in the future. When in fact, things will not get better in the future UNLESS they up their game now.

Some coffee shops are doing fine now....

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
newguy88
what am I, new?
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 170

So I'm sorry to say but I don't think Park Place coffee is going to make it. I love the ambiance of the place. But the coffee is kinda of meh and its hidden away from foot traffic.

# Posted 3 mos ago
inpixels
above average
Joined: Oct '05
Posts: 542

which ones serve "cold brewed" coffee?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_brew

I can only drink cold brew 'cause regular coffee is too acidic for me.

I usually make my own but should check out some more of the local shops....

# Posted 3 mos ago
mr. met
rocking it
Joined: Dec '07
Posts: 1,407

Anyone think Lincoln Station is gonna be a serious problem for Glass Shop, or are they far enough away from one another?

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

I think Glass Shop and Lincoln Station will both get a bump once the Court Officer Academy opens.

...enough demand for both.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
The Invisible Lines
getting it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 102

Has anyone been in Park Place Coffee? I've not, but I've peeked in a few times and patronage seems to be somewhat dismal.

As an aside, two Saturdays ago I was in Glass Shop. I had bought a coffee and a pastry and was quietly using my laptop in a corner. The barista had started his shift *after* I'd gotten there and made my purchase. As I was leaving, he practically shouted (with the obvious intent of publicly shaming me), "Hey man, if you want to use the WiFi, you gotta buy something next time." I just laughed and walked out. I don't think I'll be going back.

# Posted 3 mos ago
Epiclylaterd
getting it
Joined: Mar '12
Posts: 179

You are more mature than I, as I would have let him have it

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

I would imagine that Park Place Coffee is at a distinct disadvantage as a result of being owned by "observant" Jews: They close early on Friday, and are closed on Saturday.

I would imagine it is tough to obtain the revenue necessary to pay the bills, with such a restriction.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
newguy88
what am I, new?
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 170

whynot I just don't see any scenario where Park Place Coffee makes it. And that was before you told me that they shoot themselves in the foot by closing during some peak times.

Invisible Lines, I'm pretty shocked that you had such an experience at Glass Shop! I would have, at the least, pointed out the fact that I bought something.

# Posted 3 mos ago
Chekhovian
getting it
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 173

I'm not sure that being an observant Jewish business owner doesn't come with certain advantages. For starters, they might have a very generous lease.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

They may have a generous lease...

My commentary is largely limited to things I am privy to observing and learning.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
The Invisible Lines
getting it
Joined: Jul '08
Posts: 102

newguy88 said:

Invisible Lines, I'm pretty shocked that you had such an experience at Glass Shop! I would have, at the least, pointed out the fact that I bought something.

Yeah, I was surprised. I'm not there often, but whenever I have gone it's always been a good, friendly experience. C'est la vie!

# Posted 3 mos ago
Tacamahac
rookie newb
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 29

BobMarvin said:
You guys north of Empire Blvd. are lucky. Down here in PLG we had no real coffee shop for many months after K-Dog closed in 2011 and again after Blue Roost closed; we finally have a good one once again since Tugboat opened a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if I could cope with actually having to CHOOSE

Perhaps a coffee choice in PLG is too tough because you once again have to choose between smoothie shops!

# Posted 3 mos ago
Chekhovian
getting it
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 173

Is it unsympathetic to predict Coffee Bites ascends the rankings above after the alleged armed robbery?

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

It may be.

I am just glad they are ok after the robbery, in part because I would feel really bad about creating a thread entitled "Coffee Shop Deathwatch", and then to have an employee of a local coffee shop literally killed or harmed.

http://brooklynian.com/forum/prospect-heights/coffee-bites-robbed-today-feb-14-2013

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 3 mos ago
Chekhovian
getting it
Joined: Aug '08
Posts: 173

Well, I would say your posting/announcing the unfortunate event from yesterday should serve as some notice to other coffee shops in the neighborhood. For that, you should not feel bad.

I'm glad to hear nobody was hurt and I hope there aren't any repeat instances at other local businesses.

I would have put Coffee Bites near the top of the list even prior to this robbery.

# Posted 3 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

As a result of:

1. Its proximity to 100 Dean St
2. The food and Beer hall to be built on Bergen St.
3. It's loyal customer base,

I predict Crosby will survive and thrive.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 mos ago
ehgee
getting it
Joined: Dec '12
Posts: 64

Apparently, there was one coffeehouse for every 300 residents of London in 1700:
http://www.ineedcoffee.com/03/english/
So, you never know how many coffeeshops an area can support.

Apparently 11238 has 24,525 people, and, while it's not quite conterminous with the region we're talking about here, that number still gives a rough estimate of one coffeeshop for every 2000 residents.

# Posted 2 mos ago
newguy88
what am I, new?
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 170

I think Park Place Coffee is gone. I was supposed to meet a friend there this morning. But he texted me and said they were closed.... at 10am on a weekday. I'm kinda of sad I liked that place! And I thought the coffee was getting better. At least Glass Shop is still alive and kicking!

# Posted 1 mo ago
JoshB
getting it
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 194

Religious Jewish owners = closed for Passover. Bad for business, but hey—what do I know.

# Posted 1 mo ago
newguy88
what am I, new?
Joined: Aug '12
Posts: 170

JoshB said:
Religious Jewish owners = closed for Passover. Bad for business, but hey—what do I know.

Hmm, my friend didn't mention a note or a sign on the door. But seeing how they close for the Sabbath this makes sense. With business decisions like this I maintain their not going to be open much longer.

# Posted 1 mo ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

I agree with JoshB.

Readers, please note: Passover 2013 began in the evening of Monday, March 25 and ends in the evening of Tuesday, April 2.

If they don't re-open tomorrow, we should be concerned.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 1 mo ago
catsondean
what am I, new?
Joined: Apr '13
Posts: 1

Old news at this point, but Pacific Oasis Cafe has closed. I visited once, when I first moved to Dean St (I lived on Carroll St before then) and it was nice but I forgot to go back.

I'm a fan of Crosby Coffee and CT Muffin, which have pretty different vibes but fill different needs.

# Posted 1 mo ago
Epiclylaterd
getting it
Joined: Mar '12
Posts: 179

Nouveau Vag is now called Nouveau Vague in case anyone didn't catch it

# Posted 4 wks ago
tateinbk
above average
Joined: Jun '11
Posts: 498

I thought it was changed to Nouvelle Vague? But I did notice that.

# Posted 4 wks ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

I would have preferred Novel Vag.

As if hers was different than anyone else's.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 4 wks ago
Epiclylaterd
getting it
Joined: Mar '12
Posts: 179

It changed from Vag to Vague

# Posted 4 wks ago
Whatchuwant
Parliament Menthol Funkadelic
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 2,903

I think the original name alone was the death of it. Changing it hasn't changed anything.

Their coffee is undrinkable.

"...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa

# Posted 3 wks ago