Get Brooklynian.com by Email! 
Grab the Feed (RSS)
Brooklynian » Forum » Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park »
-
OK... I spend approximately $50/mo at the Flatbush Coop simply because it's the closest supermarket to me (and the Met closes at 8:00pm) And mind you, that $50 gets me very little. But -- I only go there when I "need" to because it's FREAKING expensive. Now, to my point... Whenever I go in there, inevitably the person in front of me in line is buying a huge amount of stuff with her Food Stamps EBT card!! Am I alone thinking this is a REALLY poor use of the limited food assistance this family is receiving?!?! I get trying to buy healthy and/or organic... but this may be one of the most expensive options in the entire borough. On the news there's periodically a story about Mr. Smith and how his food stamps run out a week or two before the end of the month. What are these people doing?? Are they part of a secret program with unlimited food stamps?
-
Food stamps, cash, or credit- patrons are welcomed equally. Snobbery in all its forms- is quiet ugly.
-
Do you really think my post was "snobbery"??! I was just expressing shock and even concern that folks with EXTREMELY finite resources have chosen the LEAST affordable option. I think of the Flatbush Co-Op as a high prices bodega that happens to sell organic products. I'm wondering what the motivation here is... and doesn't this buying choice cause even more hardship than they are already experiencing?
-
Are you sure the person doesn't work there and get a big discount?
-
Even if they were a member of the co-op it's only a small discount - think it's 2%.the ebb and flow is natural, so don't overanalyze it.
-
I'm with you Tybur6. I've seen food stamp recipients in there too. Some items possibly can't be found at the sparse supermarkets in the area, maybe that;s why they shop there, but to buy organic vegetables with food stamps is just wrong IMO.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches.
-
http://council.nyc.gov/html/pr/report/ebt_report_11_20_08.pdf Granted, farmers markets and food co-ops aren't cheap, but there is an initiative in the city to get food stamp recipients access to fresh fruit and vegetables. I don't know if that includes co-ops and I wonder if it includes CSAs.
-
Choice- something that is preferred or preferable to others; If it wasn't meant as snobbery then excuse the implication. Exhibiting precious metals or ornate garments does not engender wealth. It simply exemplifies preference. Using their stamps- is simply them using their stamps.
-
Subject: Are you serious!
So people using food stamps should only buy cheap, chemical soaked vegetables & fruit!?? What!? I don't shop for any produce at the MET near my house, b/c they usually go bad so fast, and it's really clear they don't take good care of their stuff. Why condemn someone for making a choice to eat healthy food!!! Jeez. -
Do any of your ACTUALLY understand how little $$$ folks with food stamps have to work with? I'm not suggesting foodstamp recipients should be "condemned" to anything... in fact the opposite. I'm suggesting that the Flatbush Co-Op is a TERRIBLE choice for how they spend their limited resources.... that FEEDS THEIR FAMILIES... i.e., children that depend on their parent(s) making good choices. The Natural Foods place near Vox Pop is far less expensive. The 3 or 4 women I've seen in front of me in line paying with food stamps (I notice because the cashier always screws up), are not buying *produce* and so on.... they are buying cereals and canned goods and things you can get almost anywhere for 1/2 the price.... and yeah, i'm thinking someone who is close to NOT EATING should probably go ahead an buy non-organic oatmeal and non-organic canned tomatoes. There's no "extra" money here... Why does the government restrict what is eligible for foodstamps (i.e., soda and vitamins are not eligible)?? If spending $9 for a bottle of milk at the Co-Op isn't obviously a very poor decision for someone with extremely limited $$$, then maybe someone should remind them of this!!!
-
Here you go.... from the New York Coalition Against Hunger. "Average food stamp benefits are over $100 per person per month, and $200 or more for families (varies with income). That means that the average family receives more than $2,400 worth of food per year!" TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in food for your family EVERY MONTH! Whoo Hooo! Why are they shopping at the Flatbush Co-Op?! They should be spending their food stamps at Union Market, Dean & DeLuca and Zabars!! Throw a small tin of cavier on top of your basket of organic produce and grass fed lamb.
-
Hi, I have been starting a group and conversation about starting a coop in the model of the Park Slope Coop (of which I have been a member and squad leader for 6 years now) in the CB9 and surrounding areas. If you are interested in information or becoming involved, please email me off list (karen@houseofcakes.com) and I'll add you to the list! We plan on having a general meeting about food issues in this area (Flatbush, PLG, Crown Heights, etc.) in September. Best, karen
-
Tybur6, I understand your query, I am a food stamp recipient. So why would someone choose to buy something they can get on sale elsewhere? Good question. Maybe it's like those who shop Whole Foods, counting their pennies, literally, because there is street cred for saying that they've shopped there. There is a valid point to shop at the coop if The Met is closed. Even more so if their produce and meats are crap. I only shop at the coop when I want organic food & I'm not near the Park Slope Food Coop of which I am also a member. There's nothing wrong with purchasing organic produce with the EBT card though I'd prefer to not spend $2.00 for a lemon...I want to be discerning. The food stamp people encourage recipients to eat more veggies & fruits for good health. It does not cover things like toothbrushes, diapers, prepared foods, cotton balls - food is the focus here. Plus, if you're a member of the coop, they provide a small discount on top of that. It all helps. If the benefits are $200.00, then that's $200.00 less out of their pockets and it does add up & eases one's mind. This is not just my opinion, this is my experience.
-
MeredithB » I'm with you Tybur6. I've seen food stamp recipients in there too. Some items possibly can't be found at the sparse supermarkets in the area, maybe that;s why they shop there, but to buy organic vegetables with food stamps is just wrong IMO.
WHY? This is an option that they'd have if it were Whole Foods or other stores. Why not? Granted, the food is more expensive and so their dollar won't go as far, but isn't that THEIR choice? The only other option (I can think of) is to have them que up for government fruits and veg as well as gov't cheese."It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." ~ Thomas Jefferson -
In this world or political correctness and entitlement, beggars can be choosers I guess.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches.
-
MeredithB » In this world or political correctness and entitlement, beggars can be choosers I guess.
The point is . . . it's not so simple. Buying ingredients and cooking is a lot more cost effective than ready-to-eat for instance. My coop (PSFC, don't start anything with me
) has plenty of people using EBT and I'm glad to see 'em.
Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah. -
houseofcakes » Hi, I have been starting a group and conversation about starting a coop in the model of the Park Slope Coop (of which I have been a member and squad leader for 6 years now) in the CB9 and surrounding areas. If you are interested in information or becoming involved, please email me off list (karen@houseofcakes.com) and I'll add you to the list! We plan on having a general meeting about food issues in this area (Flatbush, PLG, Crown Heights, etc.) in September. Best, karen
Right on, Karen! Care to start a new thread about your future Coop on this or the Crown Heights board? -
pitu » Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah.
True dat, but would I rather see them buy three cucumbers instead of one organic one for the same price? Hell yeah.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches. -
What I don't understand is people passing judgement on how much food stamp recipients should and shouldn't pay for their food. If they're buying organic, they are trying to better themselves. Organic food is by default more expensive. It's not constructive criticism. It's not even informed criticism. You're judging based on a few minutes of observation, and don't know what that person's overall spending habits are. Really. You don't know. Unless someone is harming you with their behavior (o dangerous purchases of pricey organic food! The horror! Save the children!), I also fail to see why anyone would care about something as petty as whether some stranger is spending $2 on a lemon or not. I have a sister who was on food stamps for a few months when she and her husband were out of work and had a daughter to think about. She hid it from our family, out of pride and not wanting us to offer her money. It's hard enough to be on food stamps. People don't need to be judged in addition to whatever they are dealing with.
-
Also, the member discount at the Flatbush Coop is 15%. If you make smart choices and buy sale items, that's not insignificant, even though Flatbush is not one of the cheaper coops around.
-
If you are getting a limited amount of money from the government why not try and stretch that money as far as you can? That makes sense to me. I do not know what their spending habits are? Well I do, I know they buy expensive organic food! I still believe a person can buy more non-organic food then organic food with $100, 15% discount or not. IMO, if one can humble themselves enough to ask for free money for food, they can humble themselves enough not to eat organic.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches.
-
The discount is only 3% unless you volunteer some hours there.the ebb and flow is natural, so don't overanalyze it.
-
pitu » Would I rather someone - anyone - buy fresh veg instead of boxed mac and cheese? Hell yeah.
Here, here. I applaud any folks who choose to make conscious choices about their food. It's unfortunate that the produce options in our areas are so limited in terms of quality. Organic or not, the produce at the Flatbush Coop is good quality so I can see why people would choose to go there. I am lucky. I have enough income and viable transportation options that I can choose to travel beyond my neighborhood to find the best fresh food I can. Why would I begrudge someone who didn't have the flexibility I do for attempting to do the same thing?Get your paws off my canned chicken -
shishkab » I am lucky. I have enough income and viable transportation options that I can choose to travel beyond my neighborhood to find the best fresh food I can. Why would I begrudge someone who didn't have the flexibility I do for attempting to do the same thing?
I wouldn't either until they get a government handout of a limited amount of food that most likely needs to be stretched until the next month and buying produce at three times the cost of a regular supermarket does not seem the most practical use of government money. But hey, I guess there's enough waste in government anyway that an organic cucumber doesn't matter.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches. -
Honestly, my first thought when I read about the lady buying organic produce with food stamps was "Good for her!" She is a grown woman, thus, she can make her own choices as to how she budgets her money. If she wants to pay $7 for a cantouloupe (or whatever it was), she has a right to do so. It sux that organic food is "the food of the elite" (because it is usually so much more expensive than non-organic food). It is unfair that poor people are stuck eating veggies that have been sprayed with pesticides... or canned stuff/white bread, etc. BTW, the two health food stores on Cortelyou are not the only supermarkets in the area. MET foods is right across (or maybe diagonally across) the street from the FFC. And C-Town is on Coney Island Ave between Bev and Cort. So there ARE two large supermarkets if you don't want to spend money on organic co-op goods. Back to the issue of food stamps: a woman buying organic food at the co-op does not irk me. What bothers me is when I see people in designer clothes, punching away at their Blackberries, while paying for stuff with food stamps! I mean, if you can afford a Blackberry, do you really need food stamps? I think not! (Sorry this is a rambling post without much point...)"If you hear a voice within you say ‘you cannot paint,’ then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced.” -Vincent Van Gogh
-
Subject: Cost-efficient Nutrition
Hi everyone! (new here, first post!) I just wanted to chime into this thread and say that, nutritionally speaking, it is so much better to shop at an organic market than to shop in a market with rotting vegetables, chemically-infused, highly-processed foods. One of the the more important things for someone to learn from a state of poverty is that they are worth taking care of themselves and that their well-being is vital to sustaining or creating a better life. This ratio of food to money may not make sense if you think about it only coming from a place of cash value, but when you think about having less food with more nutrition vs more food that just fills your belly with toxins, I'd hope that some of you can see the value in anyone spending a bit more on the benefits of health over the benefits of saving a dollar. In the end, by taking care of ourselves, so much more is benefited than the pocket. I hope this helps. Orbit -
Thanks Orbit, you articulated what I was trying unsuccessfully to put into words above!"If you hear a voice within you say ‘you cannot paint,’ then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced.” -Vincent Van Gogh
-
Subject: The Richness of Poverty
mylkshayk » Back to the issue of food stamps: a woman buying organic food at the co-op does not irk me. What bothers me is when I see people in designer clothes, punching away at their Blackberries, while paying for stuff with food stamps! I mean, if you can afford a Blackberry, do you really need food stamps? I think not!
Keep in mind that a lot of people who are in positions where food stamps are being used do not always fit the downtrodden images that we would think need help. For some, there are things that were owned before the current hardships, so a suit and a blackberry doesn't always mean someone is buying decadent things while using foodstamps. For others, these things are borrowed for the important steps in getting back into the work force. Some organizations loan out suits and cells for those who have promising opportunities. Beyond that, New York City is extremely expensive and most people in poverty will have most of their income go to rent and food. The fact that food stamps helped them to be able to afford a minimal plan on a blackberry and a suit or two is just one of the many points of being on foodstamps. I went through this whole thing already when I first moved to Flatbush and saw people filling their carts with groceries paid for with food stamps and then loading them into Escalades, or knowing neighbors on foodstamps who then threw out huge boxes from their new LCD HDTVs. It made no sense to me. SO I finally asked. The responses I've received have been humbling. From the explanation that the Escalade is leased at a price not much different from any other family vehicle and the entire family chips in to help pay for it, to the TVs being gifts from extended family to help bring something of luxury to a life with little freedom to do so on their own. Sometimes the littlest things can help the downtrodden or poor to feel a bit of a lift in spirit to keep on going, keep in trying, and if that takes a Blackberry, suit, tv, or a nice vehicle for the family, so be it. All of what I said is barring those who really do exploit the system, but they are eventually busted. The most important thing to remember is that we just DON'T KNOW the conditions or stories about other people's lives. We just don't. And it behooves us to move beyond suspicion and contempt toward those less-fortunate and maybe just try to be as good to each other as possible. ORBIT -
I can just hear the downtrodden in other countries saying, "Papa, in America, the downtrodden eats organic!"Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches.
-
Subject: Questions as Condemnation
MeredithB » If you are getting a limited amount of money from the government why not try and stretch that money as far as you can? That makes sense to me. I do not know what their spending habits are? Well I do, I know they buy expensive organic food! I still believe a person can buy more non-organic food then organic food with $100, 15% discount or not. IMO, if one can humble themselves enough to ask for free money for food, they can humble themselves enough not to eat organic.
MeredithB, Most of your comments and questions appear to rhetorical and are just being used as a platform for expressing your contempt for those you don't understand, but on the slight chance that your questions really do seek some kind of understanding, I'd just say that many people are divided by the personal ideas and experiences regarding the value of life vs the value of money, but it's really important for all of us to consider honoring the value and quality of life over any material budget or convenience. It's also so much nicer to be happy for someone who has the opportunity to take better care of himself than to condemn him for how he chooses to do so. ORBIT -
Subject: America vs "other countries"
MeredithB » I can just hear the downtrodden in other countries saying, "Papa, in America, the downtrodden eats organic!"
This is one of the problems of rising out of poverty; that others will still remain there. However, the fact that some may not have the same opportunities as others doesn't obligate those with the opportunities to not take them. The mentality you just expressed, MeredithB, would be akin to asking an abused person to remain in an abusive situation because you know others remain abused. We can't help those around us until we help ourselves to a position where we can help others. It never makes sense to condemn the "downtrodden" to remain downtrodden just because others somewhere are also downtrodden. The more people who can rise out of any oppressive situation, the more people we have on board to help others. ORBIT -
Eating organic will help the downtrodden rise out of any oppressive situation!!Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches.
-
Can I say... I am the one that started this thread. And, Orbit, I agree with you on many many points. Especially with regard to the suits/blackberry/tvs issue. Food stamps are meant as a supplement to help someone or a family with the difficult fiscal situation. That being said. The handful of folks that I've seen buying food at the Flatbush Food Co-Op are NOT buying your amazingly organic and nutritious vegetables. (Though, I question how absolutely terrible you characterize non-organic vegetables. In fact I find your cost-benefit analysis a bit on the absurd side.) However, I'm seeing folks buy organic oatmeal, organic muesli, organic canned whatever, organic rice, etc etc etc. This isn't beautiful happy green pepper vs. rotting, chemical pepper. This is an issue of $9 oatmeal when the monthly benefit is MAYBE $200. i know -- you don't want to reduce it to finances... and you want to talk about produce and not staples... so, a $2 lemon is MUCH better than a $0.30 lemon that you rinsed off? The supposed nutritional value gained is worth the enormously larger chunk of the limited resources used? I'm a liberal... but my fiscal conservative cockles get tingly when I see what I clearly see as a misuse of public funds. I would much rather see a family get $400 a month and eat Goya generic frozen vegetable (and feed their children) and another person be denied organic sugar at $6/lb.
-
(sorry... that's Goya AND generic vegetables... Goya ain't organic, but they have lots of delicious stuff. Guess I'm gonna die 6 months earlier than if I ate strictly organic, but I can actually afford to eat.)
-
Many recipients of food stamps have off-the-books work (e.g. childcare, construction, sewing, cooking, moving companies, etc.), so I doubt that food stamps comprised the whole of their grocery resources.
-
Bottom line... For the self-righteous folks of this thread: how is what someone else eats ANY of YOUR business. Settled. Give it frickin' rest and leave people alone. You act like you need to convert people into some kind of religious cult that worships a Budget. How about actually DOING something to make a difference in others lives instead of just bitching about your frustration over your wish to impose YOUR limited ideas of life upon others. Damn... *roar* lulz, ORBIT
-
^this. also, if you're so worried about the use of public funds, consider applauding those who use their food stamps to support agriculture that doesn't destroy the land and poison the water, ultimately costing us all more money. eating organic isn't only about individual health. more to the point, though, why is the flatbush coop more expensive? or is that only for non-members? the PS coop is a terrific place to stretch a dollar -- organic and not, the food is much cheaper than at the met.Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
-
sweet tea » more to the point, though, why is the Flatbush coop more expensive? or is that only for non-members? the PS coop is a terrific place to stretch a dollar -- organic and not, the food is much cheaper than at the met.
I think even if you are a member it would still be more expensive than the PS coop. Probably because the members don't work there (at least I believe they don't, they just pay a membership fee I believe). And what someone else eats may not be any of my business however where my tax dollars go is.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches. -
Subject: Compassion or Contempt
tybur6 » i know -- you don't want to reduce it to finances... and you want to talk about produce and not staples... so, a $2 lemon is MUCH better than a $0.30 lemon that you rinsed off? The supposed nutritional value gained is worth the enormously larger chunk of the limited resources used?
@Tybur, if you'd like to start a campaign in how better to budget your food money, that would be an inspired move on your part. Those in poverty could use all the support they can get. And to everyone who stands in contempt and judgment of those who are in poverty who don't spend their money as you would see fit... This is just another angle to consider, and again, this doesn't speak to all cases, and it's implicit in this discussion that we all know there will be those who exploit such systems of support for whatever reasons, but consider this, too: What most of us who are above the poverty line fail to include in the equation of this contempt for your poverty-stricken fellow humans is that... THEY ARE IN POVERTY. Many who are in poverty have not had the years of budgeting a bank account for experience, or the years of having more than what they need, or the years of knowing that more is around the corner; heck many of them have not had the proper schooling required to support that kind of thinking in the first place. Many were raised in that poverty and no nothing more. To immediately condemn these people over a few minutes of observation, or random observations, or even from a collection of observations, and from such a privileged standpoint only shows how far the gap is between you and your fellow struggling human. Compassion is the bridge between our ignorance and kindness. And we can't find that in the cacophony of judgments and rhetorical questions asked just to make a sharp point against a people. You may have the luxury to stand in judgment and contempt. Many who are in poverty feel they are in a completely different world, under the visible lines of society, and only know to eat when they can, to get what they can, take what they can, when they can, from wherever they can, because it's most likely not going to be there soon. Poverty breeds a completely different set of values. LIVING is the main goal, along with family, friends, and EXPERIENCES, which is why so much is "wasted" on things we think they shouldn't buy. Live Now, is the staple mantra of a poverty-stricken society, not Stretch Your Budget. Money is icing on the cake. Money in the life of someone in poverty has never seen the kind of bigger picture that the wealthier can enjoy. Budgeting is useless when you don't know what the next week or month will bring. So eat well now; enjoy it while it lasts... those are the kinds of things that MAY be motivating some of the food choices you witness and condemn. Just something more to think about... And a great idea if any of you who feel so strongly about this issue to actually go out and make a difference and offer your experience to programs designed to help those in poverty rise out of poverty. Looking down your noses at them does nothing to help anyone, even if it makes you feel a false sense of superiority. ORBIT -
Subject: Global Village
sweet tea » ^this. also, if you're so worried about the use of public funds, consider applauding those who use their food stamps to support agriculture that doesn't destroy the land and poison the water, ultimately costing us all more money. eating organic isn't only about individual health.
Thanks, Sweet Tea... this is one of the best responses to date. For those who are in such judgment against the poor, the mentality is leveled off at Me, Me, Me... but our food and finance choices have more than just an impact on ourselves. Thanks for pointing that out. ORBIT -
You people do realize that there ARE other fruit stores in Brooklyn where they do not have rotting fruits and vegetables, right? I don't get food stamps, but I also don't shop at the coop. It's not that difficult to hop on a bus/train for 10 min ride to get to a 'better' supermarket or fruit store... and it costs A LOT less than these food coops sound.
-
Subject: Re: Compassion or Contempt
orbitboy3000 » You may have the luxury to stand in judgment and contempt.
As are you as much as, if not more so, than anyone else.Walking on the beaches looking at the peaches.
Welcome! Please log in to post, or register a new account!