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The original "people" of Bed-Stuy were white upper class, who were moving out of Brooklyn Heights as the transportation grid was expanding. These are the people who built the incredible mansions and created (paid) for all the beautiful brownstones that are in both Crown Heights and Bed-Stuy.
Is gentrification "imperialism" if white people with money are driving out white people with less money? I was driven out of Chelsea, the west village, Carroll gardens.
Change is a constant. There is no way to stop change from happening. Even neighborhoods that have been named for a certain race or nationality change and morph. Look at Little Italy and Chinatown, they are contracting and expanding. "Read your history, know your destiny". -
What a great video... thanks for the post, Tsarina. I couldn't agree with your sentiments more. I can understand why the past few generations of Bed-Stuy (and other neighborhoods) are particularly sore about the recent waves of gentrification. It's affecting them directly right now, but it's so easy to forget those generations that paved the way before them. Aside from the wealthy who built the brownstones and estates we have today, there were generations of poor who worked directly or indirectly for them.
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My great-grandparents emigrated from Prussia in the 1890's with little to no money or knowledge of the language. Somehow they scraped together enough money to rent a storefront and run an auto repair shop. As time passed they experienced exactly the same pressure of rising rents and displacement and made their way to what was then very rural and inexpensive Nassau County. We really aren't treading any new waters these days, it's simply affecting different demographics.I think the lesson to be learned is to not forget the past and maintain passion for the spread of information regarding the rich and interesting habits, traditions, cultures, etc. that came before you. This is what makes living in New York so unique and why people want to come here. It's really a disservice to our ancestors hard work and commitment to a better life if we simply sweep their memory under the carpet.
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gentrification doesn't displace people as people think it does. usually people take under utilize buildings etc....
some dude did a study of it, he initially wanted to prove how it was destroying the black communities etc.. instead he found it not to be true.
Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure). -
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1818255,00.html
can't find the one who was from Harlem and done the study of close enough :p.
Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure). -
First off, thank you for sharing the film nofay.
Bed Stuy has a varied history and will continue in that vein. I personally think that communities that embrace diversity are more pleasing and more pleasant to live in. All people, no matter their race, need decent housing. The reality is that they go where they can afford to go. Perhaps there should be more emphasis placed on homeownership. You can't be mad about someone else selling what was theirs to sell.
With that said, the young lady in the film mentioned having to move because her landlord kept raising the rent. I'm sorry, but I get so tired of people complaining about landlords raising the rent. Tenants don't seem to take into account the costs, amount of risk, responsibility, and accountability that a landlord must shoulder. Tenants don't often take into account the sacrifices that landlords may have had to make to be in a position to buy a property, especially those who are small property owners - not to mention the fact that it's the BANK and not the landlord who actual holds title to the house for the majority of the "so-called" ownership.
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But peoples salaries dont go up as the rent goes up!
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And that is one basic reason for gentrification. Taxes, repair bills, rising Insurance, oil and gas charges, and other increasing costs force landlords to raise rents. Longtime tenants cannot afford the newly increased rents, so they are replaced by people with higher incomes who can afford the higher rents.
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I'm only 21 and have never rented a place so I may be wrong on what I'm about to say. First off, I did enjoy the film. My problem is that people who live in these areas that are experiencing gentrification just seem to wanna whine and complain. I think gentrification should be motivation to step your game up. We live in a competitive world and if you want to keep what you have then you gotta fight for it. Further your education so that you can gain the skills necessary to increase your income along with the rent. This may sound heartless but if all of the natives were to get priced out of a gentrifying neighborhood..Oh Well!!!! It's survival of the fittest. People seem to forget history. I'm not from Bed-Stuy but from what I understand, the neighborhood belonged to upper class whites who were driven out of the neighborhood. You can't get mad if history repeats itself. So all I'm trying to say is people need to do whatever they can to stay parallel to the increasing rent. If you can't then you need to go to a cheaper area and build another Bed-Stuy, Bushwick, etc. And the natives who don't contribute to society, let alone the community, shouldn't even have a voice.
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The idea that people are being forced out of their homes is also prevalent among many young people in "the community." Parents allow children to think that it is the big bad boogey man landlord that is causing them to have to move. If someone hasn't paid their rent for a whole year - and believe me, in NYC, it happens more often than you might think - they have forced themselves out. Unfortunately, there are too many people who spend more time trying to game the system than taking the time to ensure their actual long term stability in the community that they claim to love so well. Instead of "scrimping and saving" as my grandmother would say, they spend it all on faux luxuries, with the rent ending up at the bottom of the to be paid list. If the laws didn't lean so heavily toward the tenants (decreasing the notion of entitlement) in NYC, I believe both landlord AND tenant would benefit. But perhaps that's off topic...
I know all tenants are not "gamers" and all landlords are not angels. I'm just saying if people want to hold on to their place, their so-called community, just as JerseyGuy said, they have to be willing to step up their game.
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nearnostrand--you make a very good point, I think you're right about people forcing themselves out. As much as I love my people, blacks are the worst at prioritizing. Asians and Indians are good at "scrimping and saving", and I believe that's why I never hear them complaining about being driven out of a neighborhood that they love because of PRICE.
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JerseyGuy00, do you really love your people if you would say some nonsense like this on a public messageboard? I've heard Asians complain about the gentrification of Chinatown, and we will definitely hear from the Indians once Queens becomes the new "it" place.
Furthermore, let's be clear. The white people buying up BedStuy and Harlem aren't able to do so because they prioritized. Often times its because- 1.their parents/grandparents/relatives are able to financially assist them 2. they tend to make more money and have better job prospects 3. they are offered better loan rates.
Lets not forget that black people just began to get equal rights a generation or so ago. Prior to that, they were denied home loans they qualified for, denied jobs they qualified for, denied the ability to live in nice neighborhoods where their homes could increase in value and equity. If my grandma could have bought a nice house on the Upper East Side 50 years ago, surely she'd have enough equity to take out a second mortgage to help me finance a brownstone in Bed Stuy.
The gentrifiers are opportunists and imperialist. If you're unsure, please ask the Native Americans how it works.
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Well, I'm very close to buying a brownstone in western Bed-Stuy. My wife and I have lived in Crown Heights for going on 8 years... we moved here when the rent was still very cheap, and have saved money like monks... very rarely going out, cooking every night (no takeout), skimping on "luxuries" like flat screen tv's and other electronics, brown-bagging leftovers for lunch at work every damned day, etc. Does this make us "imperialist opportunists"? Or people who set what at the time could've easily been an impossible goal, owning a home in Brooklyn on an average salary, and made every effort over long years to achieve it?
Automatically assuming that everyone who moves to Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy, etc. that are white (or, in my case, 50% white) are out to completely remake the neighborhood in "their own image" and boot out the folks that have been there for generations is just as bad as the idiotic assumption that every black person from the aforementioned areas is a thug who is always armed and deals drugs. Stereotyping and generalizations show one for who they really are.
Aside from the cheaper rent, the main reason for our move to Crown Heights so long ago was the neighborhood - neighbors who knew each other's names, invited to each other's backyard bbq's, and were generally apart of each other's lives. Wanting to be a part of that, that warm, open, friendly environment, how does that make me a "gentrifier"? We didn't want to move in then automagically have 12 of our closest, or even whitest, friends move in a take over the block. We liked what was here already. We've made life-long friends in the neighborhood since we arrived, as have the children we've had since moving here.
So clearly, I'm an imperialist pig who's only out to screw you and yours. Enjoy your continuing effort to self-segregate.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
The beef should be with the landlords, not the gentrifiers
You figure a landlord has had a building + tenants for a few decades, and out of the blue they decide they want to double the rent to lure people who can pay & want to move to the neighborhood
How is that the people's fault
If people want to have a stake in their neighborhood, they have to take ownership of it like that lady w/the "M" last name I can't recall.
It takes financial prudence & hard work. Not to say it's all the people who get pushed out's fault, there's obviously a lot at play. But you look at all the 99.99APR payday loan and check cashing spots & liquor stores and stuff, it's clear where a lot of the money is going, as opposed to where it should be. So when the investments are made there instead of into ownership stakes in the neighborhood, the loss of control when the neighborhood becomes desirable to "outsiders" is beyond the control of people living there.
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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I have a hard time blaming the landlords for wanting to get the most money for thier property that the market will bear.
Any one who has ever sold anything tries to do it for the most money they can.
People like money.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Cool The Kid said:
It takes financial prudence & hard work. Not to say it's all the people who get pushed out's fault, there's obviously a lot at play. But you look at all the 99.99APR payday loan and check cashing spots & liquor stores and stuff, it's clear where a lot of the money is going, as opposed to where it should be. So when the investments are made there instead of into ownership stakes in the neighborhood, the loss of control when the neighborhood becomes desirable to "outsiders" is beyond the control of people living there.
BOOOTSTRAAAPSSSSSSSS!!!!
I never cease to be amazed by the way you simplify and critique the lifestyles of the poor, as if it's REMOTELY as simple as choosing whether to cash your paycheck or pay a mortgage.
Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org -
I don't know this video irked me for some reason. From the wildly gesticulating ignorant hipster to the guy who thinks gentrification is the new "colonization." His solution? Just "stay in your community." Really dude? Ummi wants her neighborhood to grow but not at the expense of her culture (i.e. she wants improvements but not from any whites moving in). I especially liked when the interviewer stopped the white girl on the street hoping for a "gotcha moment" and then was surprised she'd been living in Bed Stuy for five years. Or, check out that quick zoom a' la 60 Minutes when the guy in the park is talking about the "certain crowd" that comes in after five pm...almost caught him!
About the only guy that made any sense to me was Kush when he said we can all coexist together if we want to. If we want to call people colonizers or keep sticking to our stereotypes there won't be any hope. It sucks to lose your childhood memories and culture but that happens to everyone from Bed Stuy to Small Town America. Neighborhoods change, the city changes, that's New York.
And yeah...I'm white. I'm sure this matters to someone.
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Pastoralia
Whenever people talk about "coexisting together", it's always in reference to neighborhoods like Harlem, BedStuy or Fort Greene. How many races/cultures are coexisting on the Upper East Side? Riverdale? Howard Beach? Can you imagine what would happen if blacks started moving into these neighborhoods en masse? Literally, close your eyes (pretend that racist renting and selling practices no longer exist) and imagine the drama and upheaval. Why is it okay for whites to self-segregate, but not blacks (who often do it in response to racism from whites)?ntfool
I completely understand that you view yourself as just *one person* who wants to live in BedStuy, but please understand that you are a harbinger of a greater movement. When landlords see white people walking around, they realize that their neighborhood is "getting better" and decide to raise the rent, which is capitalistic and inconsiderate, but understandable.
When other white people see you walking around, or hear of your adventures in Negroville, they decide to venture out here as well.
And honestly, as awful as I may feel about discouraging you from living in the neighborhood of your dreams (or whatever), I feel ever worse for the people who have to leave the neighborhood that they grew up in. I feel sorry for my children, who I wanted to raise in BedStuy so that they could grow up without feeling that they were a "minority". I shudder to imagine BedStuy in 10 years, when my little black child will be looked at like a pesky hold-out from a bygone era. -
Are Black Gentifiers welcome?
Who gets to determine which new people are good for the neighborhood's current and future residents? ....the present residents via a to-be-announced vetting process, or the landlords via a credit check?
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Boygabriel said:
BOOOTSTRAAAPSSSSSSSS!!!!I never cease to be amazed by the way you simplify and critique the lifestyles of the poor, as if it's REMOTELY as simple as choosing whether to cash your paycheck or pay a mortgage.
If you read my post as an indictment of ALL or even ANY poor people, you "didn't read it well enough".
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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goldengreyce said:
ntfool
I completely understand that you view yourself as just *one person* who wants to live in BedStuy, but please understand that you are a harbinger of a greater movement.Nope, don't think that you do. I believe that you're locked into your own perspective and are just giving me lip service.
When landlords see white people walking around, they realize that their neighborhood is "getting better" and decide to raise the rent, which is capitalistic and inconsiderate, but understandable.
Ma'am, there was a house for sale. We made an offer. It was accepted. End of story. Were there other offers on the house? Nope. Is it anyone's fault that no black people bid on said house? Did I, or another white person, make the seller put the house on the market? Given all that, what is it you that you think should've happened in this situation? If no black buyers stepped forward, the house should remain on the market forever, in limbo, and likely drag the property values of all the other single and two-family homes on the block down, thereby affecting those (black) homeowners?
When other white people see you walking around, or hear of your adventures in Negroville, they decide to venture out here as well.
Adventures in... Negroville. That's just great. You may have read my post above, but clearly missed its meaning. My family and I have no desire to fundamentally change anything. One of the reasons we're moving from the area of Crown Hieghts we've lived in for so many years is because we are being priced out along with many other long-term residents. You've automatically decided, based upon my presumed skin tone, that I am some "pioneer" in search of adventure, and you are dead wrong. I am a father and husband, who has worked long, long hours for years and years to provide for my family; i.e., to find a way to stop renting.
And honestly, as awful as I may feel about discouraging you from living in the neighborhood of your dreams (or whatever), I feel ever worse for the people who have to leave the neighborhood that they grew up in. I feel sorry for my children, who I wanted to raise in BedStuy so that they could grow up without feeling that they were a "minority". I shudder to imagine BedStuy in 10 years, when my little black child will be looked at like a pesky hold-out from a bygone era.
The neighborhood I grew up in is completely different that what it was 40 years ago. Bed-Stuy is completely different than what it was 40 years ago. Downtown Manhattan is completely different than 40 years ago. Every town and city in the country is completely different than 40 years ago! Ever hear the expression "you can't go home again"? And by the way, I certainly don't believe that you feel at all awful telling me that I should stay out of your neighborhood, simply because you don't like change. You seem to take some level of pride in it. As I said in a previous post here to another poster, enjoy your continuing efforts to self-segregate.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
goldengreyce said:
Pastoralia
Whenever people talk about "coexisting together", it's always in reference to neighborhoods like Harlem, BedStuy or Fort Greene. How many races/cultures are coexisting on the Upper East Side? Riverdale? Howard Beach? Can you imagine what would happen if blacks started moving into these neighborhoods en masse? Literally, close your eyes (pretend that racist renting and selling practices no longer exist) and imagine the drama and upheaval. Why is it okay for whites to self-segregate, but not blacks (who often do it in response to racism from whites)?What would happen? Probably the same thing that has happened in various Long Island neighborhoods and other suburban enclaves that have seen upswings in the sizes of their black communities. The idea that there is a conscious & deliberate effort to keep black people out of certain neighborhoods is ridiculous... people, black, white, yellow, red, move to the places where they will get the most for their money.
It's 2011, you have to be smarter than this
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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Cool The Kid
You're so right. I keep forgetting that racism is dead! Time for me to pack up and move to Bensonhurst (where someone once yelled at me on the street "You don't belong here") or Howard Beach.
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goldengreyce said:
Cool The KidYou're so right. I keep forgetting that racism is dead! Time for me to pack up and move to Bensonhurst (where someone once yelled at me on the street "You don't belong here") or Howard Beach.
Sad and unfortunate that something like that was shouted at you, but how is that any different than what you've essentially said to me here on this board with regard to my family's intended move to "your" neighborhood?
Racism is far from dead. But you playing into it isn't helping anyone, particularly yourself.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
goldengreyce said:
Cool The KidYou're so right. I keep forgetting that racism is dead! Time for me to pack up and move to Bensonhurst (where someone once yelled at me on the street "You don't belong here") or Howard Beach.
Oh yes, racism died long ago. When a black man called a white female friend of mine a "cracker bitch" on Nostrand I'm sure he had no malicious intentions or racist undertones. And yes, your situation was unfortunate, but it's pretty hypocritical to complain about being a victim of racism & then turn around and perpetuate it. Your hollow projections ("white people who move to CH have the choice to live elsewhere, but want to 'explore' the ghetto" etc) reflect a mindstate that is just as backwards as those misguided souls you encountered in Bensonhurst. So who are you to make any kind of judgment calls?
Like anything, w/o the impetus to investigate people default to fearing & rationalizing hating what they don't know. Much of your reasoning for hating gentrifiers has just been flat out wrong. Unfortunately for you voluntary ignorance is an unacceptable starting pt for forming a legitimate viewpoint.
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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CTK-
I completely agree with you, but fear this thread could could quickly degenerate into a contest over who (blacks or whites) is more racist. Such conversations are never fruitful, and clearly their are ignorant people on both sides.Based on my reading of her posts above, Goldengreyce seems to have concluded that her best response is to protect her kid from racist white people and raise him/her in an environment in which he/she is not a minority.
While I sympathize with goals, I also have some thoughts about how she is going about it.
For the sake of this conversation, I will assume that goldengreyce believes that "too many white people hate all blacks". [She may believe that ALL white people hate all blacks, but -for a moment- let's assume it is the former]
For the sake of this conversation, I will play a white guy who is in need of an apartment.
Ready?
Ok, in my role, my primary concern is to get an apartment. ...It is not to help goldengreyce raise her child. In fact, due to the present stigma around hating people solely based on their race, I may believe that I am free from such biases and ignorance.
In other words, I have deemed myself to not be among the "too many white people that hate all blacks". In addition to fulfilling my immediate need of "finding an affordable apartment", moving to Bed Stuy may even allow me to feel good about myself:
I may believe that by moving into a currently "black neighborhood", I can show people that not all members of my race are idiots.
All of of this is tempered by very real concerns about crime rates and whether I will feel welcomed in the community, but I have determined that my likelihood of being a victim of crime drops to a level I find acceptable if I do not buy or sell drugs, and am in bed most nights by 11 PM.
Based on the above, I sign a lease on a vacant apartment in Bed-Stuy and the neighborhood becomes "more white" by a unit of one.
Now let's imagine myself in the role goldengreyce.
She would love for that apartment to filled by a black person, and would like for it to be rented at the same rate the prior tenant paid. However, as discussed above, the landlord is going to naturally rent it for as much money as s/he can, and may have no preference whether that money comes from someone who is black or white. The first person who is willing to sign a lease for $1650 a month and passes the credit check, gets it.
Goldengreyce feels powerless; She is unable to stop the above and sees the neighborhood rents steadily increasing. Eventually, I see one of three things happening:
1. She gets priced out of her home and moves to a neighborhood with a rent she can afford (like me, in the scenario above). As a result of her preferences, she chooses a neighborhood that is black. However, because rents are increasing everywhere, she may find that she is only able to live in a neighborhood that is more violent and less nice that the one she is leaving. (If she owns her home, this scenario is only slightly different. I.E. She sells her home, but ends up in the same situation)
2. She is able to stay in apartment as a result of getting a promotion at work, or benefitting from some program that fixes her rent to a below market rate. She hates her new neighbors, and now can not afford to buy groceries locally because the prices (and perhaps quality) of the goods have gone up.
3. As you suggest, she can adapt her view of her new neighbors.
CTK-
To make a long story short, as an individual I perceive her as being powerless to stop the "changing demographics" (aka "gentrification") or her neighborhood. Barring threats of violence, I believe her requests to white people not take what they see as a good deal on an apartment will be ignored.So, she must make some kind of decision, ad implement some kind of change.
I hope whatever she ends deciding to do is best for her kids.
Like you, I'd hate for her and her family to continue to be a victim of America's destructive cycle of hatred, AND I would hate it even more if I felt her responses caused the cycle to escalate.
Goldengreyce-
Please let me know if I described any aspect of the challenge you face incorrectly.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
I'm just at a loss as to why people bring race into it. It is pure economics. Landlords don't give a damn who their tenant is as long as they pay the rent they ask on time & aren't disruptive or destructive. Tenants, black white whatever are looking for the best deal possible within their budget, which in Bloomberg's luxury city means that (unfortunately?) some white people will be moving into primarily black or Latino neighborhoods to stay in NYC. It's a very simple concept that has nothing to do with race or cultural exploration or w/e. Who would choose to live in a neighborhood in which they were not wanted, they were unlike most other people there and had higher crime than other areas if they had access to other alternatives? These are questions people like Goldengreyce never seem to have the answer to.
The sooner we can all conceptualize the idea of gentrification being an economic problem the better. Initiatives to protect the displaced have to be made on a socioeconomic (NOT racial) basis.
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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Thank you whynot_31 for at least trying to see my point of view.
Let me say this- I don't hate white people. To me, that seems pretty obvious but I need to get there right away.My issue is that Bed-Stuy and Harlem are seen as sacred to many members of the African-American community. You can go to a black person in South Africa or a white person in Oregon and ask them what they associate Bed-Stuy or Harlem with, and it will be black people.This is our haven, a place where we can be ourselves free of double consciousness and not wear the mask.
I would never complain about gentrification in Brownsville, Crown Heights or East New York. On the contrary, I would sign up to lead tours of the neighborhood while touting the low rents and changing demographic.
Black people in America have been robbed of EVERYTHING. Robbed of our freedom, our men have been lynched, our women raped, our neighborhoods burned down, our schools underfunded. Now we are being chased out of the neighborhoods that we associate with our movements, our joys, our culture. Nothing is sacred to the people moving in, all they see is low rent and nearby train stations.
Cool The Kid
Am I perpetuating racism by wanting to preserve Bed-Stuy's culture? I would never yell anything malicious to a white/Asian/Hispanic/Indian person because at the end of the day, they're a person. But I guarantee you that in the same second that your friend was called a "cracker bitch" 20 black men were pulled over by cops for driving in a nice neighborhood, 8 black women were passed over for jobs because the HR company felt like they had enough black employees, 50 black kids weren't invited to slumber parties because their parents wouldn't approve, etc.
The fact that you would even equate that situation to the day-to-day struggle that blacks face shows that you are unable to see pass white privilege and entitlement.
Pardon me for wanting to shield my children from something that white people will NEVER be burdened with.
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Goldengreyce-
What is the answer? How will you protect the neighborhood from changing?To draw a quick analogy, it is very hard to landmark a building to protect it from being bought by developers and replaced with an ugly metal box. It is brutal to watch a beautiful building be destroyed, but we (as a society) often end up in this situation.
Protecting a neighborhood that is owned by independent landlords is far more difficult and complicated; Historic districts are notoriously hard to create.
I can't imagine how one would landmark a neighborhood as being for a certain ethnicity and then declare that only black residents can move in.
All I can do is hope your family finds a way to adapt.
P.S. I am glad you have not responded to the generations of hate bestowed on blacks by some whites, by hating all whites. ...but I'm not opposed to anyone hating haters.
Assuming we can't eliminate such hatred and ignorance, I hope your kids experience less of it than any prior generation.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Goldengreyce,
Its a shame you haven't seen fit to respond to my posts from the previous page, when you had no problems shouting me down thus far. Ah well.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
goldengreyce said:
Thank you whynot_31 for at least trying to see my point of view.
Let me say this- I don't hate white people. To me, that seems pretty obvious but I need to get there right away.I don't think anyone said that. But I will say you definitely jump to a lot of unfounded conclusions about white people
My issue is that Bed-Stuy and Harlem are seen as sacred to many members of the African-American community. You can go to a black person in South Africa or a white person in Oregon and ask them what they associate Bed-Stuy or Harlem with, and it will be black people.This is our haven, a place where we can be ourselves free of double consciousness and not wear the mask.
There was a time when Bedstuy was all white. Harlem has always been a black town, but the fact that "original" Harlemites were unable to protect their haven from economic forces is not the fault of white people or even gentrifiers. So this point isn't really relevant
I would never complain about gentrification in Brownsville, Crown Heights or East New York. On the contrary, I would sign up to lead tours of the neighborhood while touting the low rents and changing demographic.
Ummm... OK.Black people in America have been robbed of EVERYTHING. Robbed of our freedom, our men have been lynched, our women raped, our neighborhoods burned down, our schools underfunded. Now we are being chased out of the neighborhoods that we associate with our movements, our joys, our culture. Nothing is sacred to the people moving in, all they see is low rent and nearby train stations.
Right. We associate Bed Stuy & Harlem with our character and all, but we don't own them... we never bought them and we were not given them, we, like the gentrifiers you demonize, displaced people who were already there. Why said displacement is a problem for you now is solely because you may be among the displaced, and the displaced are black like you.
Cool The Kid
Am I perpetuating racism by wanting to preserve Bed-Stuy's culture? I would never yell anything malicious to a white/Asian/Hispanic/Indian person because at the end of the day, they're a person. But I guarantee you that in the same second that your friend was called a "cracker bitch" 20 black men were pulled over by cops for driving in a nice neighborhood, 8 black women were passed over for jobs because the HR company felt like they had enough black employees, 50 black kids weren't invited to slumber parties because their parents wouldn't approve, etc.
None of this has anything to do with the point I was making. You feel like we as black people have the right to Bed Stuy & Harlem because we are owed it. If that's the case then you have to make the case to reverse segregation laws, the Civil Rights movement, etc... because by blocking off areas by race you are essentially throwing all that out the window.
The fact that you would even equate that situation to the day-to-day struggle that blacks face shows that you are unable to see pass white privilege and entitlement.
I didn't...???
Pardon me for wanting to shield my children from something that white people will NEVER be burdened with.
Blocking non-black people from moving into your neighborhood won't guarantee your child won't do anything to shield them from the burden of blackness.Like I said, it's an economic issue... NYC has to many degrees failed its poor, and the threat of gentrification is a manifestation is that. But I refuse to get into the game of talking about "white privilege" and all that BS. That rouse makes dialogue one sided and meaningless, blocking black people from looking at what we may have done wrong to get to where we are now....
But I'm certain you don't want to get into that... "its all the white man's fault"
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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I <3 CTK
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(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) -
ntfool
There's nothing wrong with self-segregation. White people do it all the time, and spent more than 350 years insuring that Negroes were completely separate from their lives and domiciles. Now we're all supposed to sing kumbaya... this never ceases to amaze me. There aren't supposed to be any hurt feelings on our part, no desire to slink away and be amongst our own...in our own neighborhoods.I asked before and I'll ask again- why isn't anyone concerned about the white people self-segregating in Howard Beach and the Upper East Side? To this day, white people flee to the suburbs to get away from us, yet there is no place we can call our own without opportunists looking to get in on it.
True, Bed-Stuy was once all white, but the native FLED from Negroes. They weren't pushed out by unscrupulous gentrifiers.
Yes, a house was for sale and you bought it. What made you even consider Bed-Stuy in the first place? Had you heard that it was becoming gentrified (a.k.a. safe for whites)? You probably didn't even consider Bed-Stuy at the time same time that you ended up living in Crown Heights all those years ago... why the sudden interest?
Black people look to Bed-Stuy for community, but non-blacks look to Bed-Stuy because it's "cheap". Meanwhile, there are a ton of other comparably-priced neighborhoods that people can move to. Why are people moving to Bed-Stuy as opposed to other neighborhoods in that same price range???
People say "Well we like the culture". The culture is blackness, and last time I checked, you can't get that through osmosis. We are the ones throwing block parties, watching our neighbor's children, fostering a sense of community that is now being wiped out. It will soon evolve into to people not throwing block parties, not watching their neighbor's children and not fostering a sense of community as the demographics change.Cool The Kid
Where to begin? For one, I will not be displaced. Like the woman in the video, I will be here, my children will be here, and my grandchildren too with dirty looks on our faces
I don't think black people OWN Bed-Stuy or Harlem, but I do believe (as I said before) that these neighborhoods have served as a haven for black people since before most if not all of these message board posters were born.
Of course, I don't expect this to be relevant to white people. As anyone who has studied history knows, consideration for people's culture, history and territory isn't exactly their strong suit.However, what I do hope gentrifiers realize is that the "neighborhood culture" that they claim to love so much will disappear along with the people being pushed out. It will turn into yet another bland, indistinguishable neighborhood. The prices will rise, they'll be forced to continue on their sojourn east, deeper and deeper into Brooklyn. However the beautiful history cultivated by blacks in this neighborhood may not recover.
You seem to think that it's mainly broke black renters that are against gentrification of Bed-Stuy. Many owners moved to Bed-Stuy because it was a black Mecca. They saved up their money and made a down payment on their dream. They're getting screwed too.
I really don't know what else to say. Even if no one on this board agrees or understands, I am comforted by the fact that most blacks (and many minorities) know exactly where I coming from. There is a reason why this is a heated debate, a reason why newspapers and magazines have devoted countless articles to this topic. Both sides have valid points, but as a black person, this issue has just reminded me that white people will get what they want, how they want, when they want it, regardless of what culture/ history is standing in the way begging for mercy.
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The best way to protect your neighborhood from gentrifiers is for you and your neighbors to buy the apartments and/or houses in which you all live. If you refuse to move out, ain't no one else moving in.
Then you all have to resist the lure of easy money... Park Slope was once heavily Irish and Italian... Carroll Gardens almost entirely Italian... but the new gentrifiers offered unimagined sums of money and the old-timers happily sold and moved.
I understand that buying apartments or buildings may be prohibitively expensive... in that case gentrification is all but inevitable.
Our government is Constitutionally prohibited from saying, "only blacks are allowed to live in Harlem or Bed-Stuy", just as it is prohibited from saying "only whites are allowed to live in the Upper East Side or Howard Beach".
If Howard Beach is still segregated (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), it is because neighbors put extreme pressure on one another not to sell to people unlike themselves. It is not a result of government action.
If the Upper East Side is segregated (and I doubt that it truly is, at least insofar as rental apartments go), it is because too few blacks can afford the outrageous prices there. I suppose some real estate agents may engage in illegal "steering", but I think the city and state human rights agencies would shut down that behavior pretty quickly. Again, segregation on the Upper East Side does not result from government protection of whites against blacks.
In our society, what you request is impossible, except through concerted economic action by the folks already in the neighborhood. Your best bet may be to look at how Howard Beach protects itself against the dreaded influx of black people, or for that matter of Jews or anyone else who is in any way different from the people already there, and then apply that lesson to Bed-Stuy.
Look also at how Korean immigrants establish themselves in this country. They are reported to (meaning I have no personal knowledge of this) pool their money to enable one and then another to start business ventures.
If the blacks of bed-stuy could pool their money to buy apartments and houses, that might slow down "black flight" and what you referred to as "unscrupulous gentrifiers."
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goldengreyce » white people will get what they want, how they want, when they want it, regardless of what culture/ history is standing in the way begging for mercy.
While in this instance, the individuals displacing blacks in Bed Stuy are often white, it actually could be any individuals with more economic power.
I.E. Your neighbors ARE NOT being displaced because the newcomers are white, and they are black. ....Your neighbors ARE being displaced because they have less money that the newcomers.
...there's also been some new housing created in Bed Stuy, which when occupied, tends to displace absolutely no one.
With the exception of groups like the Klan, white people don't have weekly meeting where they get together and and talk about how they are going to destroy blacks. Instead, as in the example I provided above, it is a case of individual white people pursing what they perceive to be their best self interests.
To make a long story short: Poor people are priced out of any neighborhood that is deemed desirable by people with more money.
As Booklaw alludes,
-The Irish with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Irish or not.
-The Japanese with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Japanese or not.
-The Nepalese with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Nepalese or not.
-The Germans with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Germans or not.
-The African Americans with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are African Americans or not.
-The Finnish with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Finnish or not.
-The Irish with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Irish or not.
-The Hispanics with more money do it to whoever lives on the block next door, whether the displaced are Hispanic or not.
So, while I hear you in that you would like to create a haven for African Americans, I am not sure that you have captured the full array of issues you would need to overcome to achieve this goal. You mentioned two "currently white" neighborhoods:
Howard Beach is a mostly white, poor neighborhood not merely because many of its members don't want integration, but also because there aren't a lot of people who want to live there. It is the middle of no where, consists of ugly houses that flood, and the main nearby attractions are sleep denying night flights into JFK and the flea market full of expired toothpaste at the nearby aqueduct "racetrack" parking lot. Unless everyone there gets wealthy and then moves out, it will remain almost exclusively white and poor.
The Upper East Side is a mostly white, wealthy neighborhood not merely because many of its members don't want integration, but also because most rich people in the United States are white. The neighborhood is very convenient to high paying midtown and Wall street jobs. Unless those who are currently wealthy get poor, it will remain wealthy and white.
Bed-Stuy, on the other hand, will be unable to remain largely black, despite many of its members not wanting integration. It is adjacent to neighborhoods which have higher incomes. It has some nice housing stock. It is close to Manhattan. Unless those who are currently there own there homes or make more money, they will get priced out and the neighborhood will become less black.
Meanwhile, places like Hollis, Middle Village and Canarsie remain quite black, and quite middle class. They are distant from the areas presently being sought. They are further from Manhattan and its high paying jobs. Unless those who are currently there lose their jobs and have to move out, those neighborhoods will continue to be mostly black. However, as a middle class person, I have to admit I would consider living in any of those places if it wasn't for the commute. ....the houses are well maintained, the school system is pretty good.
Finally, places like Wyandanch, Mount Vernon and Coram remain quite black, and quite low income. Not only are they far from Manhattan, they are far from ANY of NYC's high paying jobs. No one wants to live there. EVEN IF those who are currently there get better jobs and move out, those neighborhoods will continue to have their poor residents with few options of where to live.
So, while you may see it as white people pricing out black people, I see it as people with more money pricing out people with less money.
...and (as a white guy) I would face the same economic pressures if I lived on the lovely Upper East Side or in ugly Howard Beach.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
A bunch of urban planning schools make a distinction between "ghettos" and "enclaves". The main difference is whether the people living there are there because they are required to be there by larger society or because they choose to be there.
If a person has no choice - due to economic or racist housing policies of the government, real estate agents or other people - but to live in a certain neighborhood, it is a "ghetto". Bed Stuy historically if not currently fit this definition. If a person chooses to segregate themselves from wider society, they live in an "enclave" which is largely what the Upper East Side is.
And the problem a lot of people (the displacers and displaced) face is that it is hard to have an enclave that isn't inherently either racist and/or classist. It is impossible to live only among folks like ourselves without keeping others out. And yes, blue blooded Upper East Siders want to keep (and very effectively have kept) everyone else out.
An integrated neighborhood, one that isn't just people living next door to each other, but one that has people's kids going to the same schools and stopping over for a cup of sugar and having dinner together requires a certain level of assimilation. And assimilation means giving up things as well as receiving things - as goldengreyce points out.
If I lived in Bed Stuy, even if I owned one of the beautiful brownstones on Hancock and was being offered a lot of money for it, I don't know how I would feel about the new arrivals. And if I was poor and had no choice of other places to live, I surely wouldn't want to see richer people moving in.
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goldengreyce said:
I asked before and I'll ask again- why isn't anyone concerned about the white people self-segregating in Howard Beach and the Upper East Side? To this day, white people flee to the suburbs to get away from us, yet there is no place we can call our own without opportunists looking to get in on it.True, Bed-Stuy was once all white, but the native FLED from Negroes. They weren't pushed out by unscrupulous gentrifiers.
Yes, a house was for sale and you bought it. What made you even consider Bed-Stuy in the first place? Had you heard that it was becoming gentrified (a.k.a. safe for whites)? You probably didn't even consider Bed-Stuy at the time same time that you ended up living in Crown Heights all those years ago... why the sudden interest?
Black people look to Bed-Stuy for community, but non-blacks look to Bed-Stuy because it's "cheap". Meanwhile, there are a ton of other comparably-priced neighborhoods that people can move to. Why are people moving to Bed-Stuy as opposed to other neighborhoods in that same price range???
People say "Well we like the culture". The culture is blackness, and last time I checked, you can't get that through osmosis. We are the ones throwing block parties, watching our neighbor's children, fostering a sense of community that is now being wiped out. It will soon evolve into to people not throwing block parties, not watching their neighbor's children and not fostering a sense of community as the demographics change.Okay then. First and foremost, I believe whynot's post above does a lot to further the self-segregation disucssion, so I don't feel the need to comment on it again. Suffice to say I think he had a thorough and intelligent post.
Moving on, when we moved to Crown Heights in 2002, it was the combination of two things - friends from there (amazingly, not all of our friends are white!) who had told us that it was a warm and inviting community (which it was), and yes, affordability. Clearly, I'm the devil, an "unscrupulous gentrifier", as you say.
What made me consider Bed-Stuy in the first place? Because, hopefully, not all the residents of the community have your mentalilty. It was not a "sudden" interest. It was not that I felt it was becoming "safe for whites" as you so eloquenlty put it. My family and I have been looking for home to purchase for two years. We would certainly prefer to stay in Crown Heights, not becase of how much more the area has gentrified since we got here, as I'm sure you assume, but because we have a lot of friends, our kids are in the local public schools and have their own social support system, and we are part of the existing community.
My question to you is where are these comparatively-priced neighborhoods you mention? Where, in the vicinity of Crown Heights, could I have afforded to buy? Because after two years of looking, we didn't find anything near our current apartment that we could afford.
I didn't suddenly hit upon Bed-Stuy and think "Oh, a mecca of cheap housing options! I need to tell all my friends to move here with us so we can white it up!" We looked. And considered. And looked. And considered. And after spending no small amount of time in the area around the house, patronizing the local businesses and having conversations with area residents, we came to the realization that it really felt very similar to the Crown Heights that we moved to in 2002. So we made an offer.
I do appreciate the local culture. If you feel that me, specifically as an individual, moving into your neighborhood will have a permanent detrimental effect on that culture, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. But as someone of mixed descent, I'm clearly inclined to disagree with you on closing off your culture. If everyone did that, my parents never would've met. Besides which, my wife and have gone to, and hosted, innumberable cookouts in our current neighborhood, been invited to, and hosted, innumberable Sunday dinners, etc. And if you don't like the idea that my wife, kids and I will now be doing the same thing near you on the basis of our skin colors alone, well, that's pretty sad.
However, I do appreciate the sentiment that Mrs. Whynot had above:
If I lived in Bed Stuy, even if I owned one of the beautiful brownstones on Hancock and was being offered a lot of money for it, I don't know how I would feel about the new arrivals. And if I was poor and had no choice of other places to live, I surely wouldn't want to see richer people moving in.
I can understand that mentality, and appreciate it. But I certainly don't like being on the receiving end of it. And, more importantly, while Mrs. Whynot frames that paragraph within economic/class differences, you, goldengreyce, are clearly making your arguments from a racial context. And that to me is pretty scary, knowing that my young kids, who will be in the extreme minority, may be going to a public school with your's, who have been listening to their parent slam all white people that move into the neighborhood as trying to force black folk out, kill their culture, and generalizing a race of people as a whole as opportunistic, greedy duplicitous people. Making it an Us vs. Them scenario. Pretty scary indeed.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
goldenreyce if you can't grasp the simple concept that it is money, not race or a need to destroy a culture or imperialize a neighborhood, that is the ONLY driving force behind gentrification, I don't know what to say. As a black man I hope that we are smarter than you suggest and eventually grow strong enough economically to pool together and protect our enclaves... but as long as we keep deflecting and pointing the finger we are gonna get washed out by the tides of gentrification indefinitely
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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I completely understand what everyone is saying. Really, I do. And I hate sounding like the people who, 50 years ago, fled to the suburbs because they didn't want to live in a neighborhood with people of another race.
As I said before, for many black people BedStuy= haven from all the racist bullshit of the outside world.
When your boss talks down to you, when the security guard at the fancy store stares at you, when the white lady clutches her purse as you walk past, you can come home to BedStuy and know that no one is judging you because of your race.
There's nothing wrong with black people wanting to be around each other exclusively, that's why we HBCUs (attended by such "self-segregating" black people as Martin Luther King, Oprah and Toni Morrison), why we have black fraternities, sororities, social groups, summer camps, etc. We even have black enclaves in the Hamptons that are anti-gentrification as well:
New York Times- Comfort and Refuge in Black Hamptons Enclave''This is a historically black community,'' said Lynn Hendy, president of the property owners association. ''I'd like it to stay that way. White people can go anywhere. But how do you say that without sounding racist?''
God forbid ntfool stumble across one of the angry racists depicted in this article!
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When white people form "white only" enclaves (by buying property close to & selling property to other white people) its racist, its exclusionary, it's wrong
When black people form "black only" enclaves (that we don't even legally own, just neighborhoods we happen to all move to), it's a celebration of our culture, it's a "must needed haven" from the constant racist attacks of the uncultured backwater people of.... New York City?
*scratches head*
Not to mention the absurdity of your assertions. I think it is important for neighborhoods like Bed Stuy and Harlem to be preserved because they are rich with our culture and history, not because we are so weak as a people we need a place to retreat & lick our wounds from the passive aggressive attacks of Mr Evil Whitey. Cmon now. I take issue with looking to segregate one's self in a city that thrives and celebrates diversity.
As I said if we want to take ownership of our neighborhoods we need to pool our resources together and fight back financially. But that's a whole other thread I really don't want to revisit.
[Mamacita said:
I <3 CTK
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Although it was written a while ago (2003), I found this paper to be quite relevant and well written.
http://www.urbanology.org/BedStuy/
If the author were to update the paper, I suspect they would find that the demographic trends have just continued since 2003.
As stated above, I believe the neighborhood will continue to change.....
This article is more recent (2008) and discusses how the neighborhood is described by various print media sources
http://bedstuybanana.blogspot.com/2008/03/face-of-bed-stuy.html
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
God forbid ntfool stumble across one of the angry racists depicted in this article!
Yes, god forbid.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
Cool the Kid
The difference between black people forming an enclave and white people forming an enclave is that black people have a shared culture. There is a definitive African-American culture, just as there is an Nuyorican culture, and a Jewish-American culture. There is no definitive white American culture that I'm aware of.
When Puerto Ricans choose to live in Spanish Harlem because they want their kids to grow up around other Catholics that eat arroz con pollo and hit their kids with chancletas, it's not an issue.
When Jews choose to live in Riverdale because they want their kids to grow up around other conservative Ashkenazim that speak Yiddish and do "Birthright" in Israel, it's not an issue.But when African-Americans want to live in Bed-Stuy amongst ourselves, preserving our culture and traditions, it is an issue?! Please explain this to me.
I understand that gentrification is also an economic issue. However, because of Bed-Stuy's history, racial feathers will be ruffled.
Furthermore, when white people are systematically subjugated by black people, I will understand their desire to seek refuge.
New York is a city that thrives and celebrates diversity as much as it is a city where black men like Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, Abner Louima and countless others are murdered by cops. A city where we've had 1 minority mayor in our entire history. A city where the top public schools have minority enrollment in the single digits. A city where we have high-profile "birthers" such as Donald Trump. We celebrate diversity on the surface.
I am not weak for wanting to retreat from that, as the Jews, Hispanics and Indians. It's just unfortunate that many our people could not protect their neighborhood through home ownership.
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From whynot_31's link
And a fitting conclusion to all these, with one last view from the New York Times:
The neighborhood became primarily black during the 1930's and 1940's, Ms. Green said, but there were free black communities in the area dating to the 1700's. The Civil War draft riots, in which blacks were attacked in many parts of Manhattan, were a seminal point in the area's history.''People came to Brooklyn for safe haven,'' she said. ''That automatically implies that within Brooklyn there were communities of African-Americans that were established enough that people knew they would be safe if they came here.''
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Jews cannot legally exclude blacks (or Puerto Ricans) from Riverdale. Puerto Ricans cannot legally exclude blacks (or Jews) from Spanish Harlem. Blacks can have their shared community in Bed-Stuy; they just cannot legally exclude Puerto Ricans, Jews, or anyone else who wants to share it with them.
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I just can't get over the hypocrisy that goldengreyce displays by telling the story here of how she was told "You don't belong here" by some white a-hole in another, (hopefully) much more insular part of Brooklyn on the basis of her skin tone, then turning around and essentially saying the exact same thing to me, for seemingly the same reason it was said to her!
I just don't get it. When has propagating the cycle of racism ever helped a soul? Having been on the receiving end of racism your whole life, how can you then make broad generalizations and assume the worst in others, just because of the color of their skin? Or is that exactly why you can justify it?
You don't know me, have never met me, and yet to you I'm simply auto-classified as an “opportunist” and “imperialist”. Solely on the basis of skin color. So how does that make you any better or worse than the a-hole who told you to leave his hood just because you’re a different color than he is?
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.
spurn Productions, Inc. -
booklaw
Of course people cannot legally be excluded. I don't even wish for non-black people to be informally excluded. I just wish that Bed-Stuy could maintain a black majority.ntfool
Nobody belongs anywhere. We are all free to come and go as we please.
My issue is that as more white people come, and more black people go, Bed-Stuy will end up looking like the Upper West Side. The Upper West Side, of course, is lovely. However, it would hurt to see Bed-Stuy turn into a white-washed Yuppie paradise.
This may not be your intention, but for every white person that moves into Bed-Stuy because it's cheap/full of culture/convenient, there is at least 1 waiting for people like me to be priced out so that it completes the gentrification cycle. And this hurts me to my core.It's important to be that my child grow up in a middle class black neighborhood. White success is everywhere, but I remember having black lawyers and professors as neighbors and that meant something to me, meant something to us. Likewise, seeing black gang members and drugs addicts meant something as well- a precautionary tale. Black children deserve to see these ends of the spectrum. As a black person, being around black people means something different than being around white people as a white person.
For example, remember when Obama was elected? Yes, I saw white people cheering in the street. But I saw black people weeping in the streets, because it meant something entirely different to us. I cannot put into words the ties that bind us. And yes, there are some black people that are outside of the circle. Many of them are on this message-board defending gentrification, trying to remove race from the reality of the situation. However, I can never and will never applaud anything that disenfranchises my people. And while I certainly take some black people to task for not investing in their community and having misplaced priorities, I abhor opportunists. You probably aren't one of them, but there are more than enough to go around.Please don't compare my experiences with racism to a white person's experiences with racism. That's like comparing a sprained wrist to an amputated arm. I will always be at the bottom, subaltern.
I don't expect you to understand issues in black community, nor do I expect you to understand the unique dynamic that exists between many of us. All that I hope is that people understand our desire to have our own space.
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Goldengreyce: very well put. I can empathize with your feelings.
fyi, I have a good friend who lives on a completely integrated block in Prospect Lefferts Gardens. The block is probably 60-75% black, 25-40% white. The folks on the block, of both races, party together and BBQ together. It's my idea of heaven.
Would that not work for your family?
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Wow - I am very impressed by the civility of the discussion here. Goldengreyce has continued to be engaged in the face of much skepticism. I think what she is suggesting is most similar to what certain religiously or ethnically defined Jewish groups, where out marriage and selling homes to non-group members are discouraged. But I would disagree with the poster who suggested that African Americans (in contrast to white Americans) share one "culture." West Indians, Southern migrants, native New Yorkers and Nigerians may all look the same to some, but hardly have the same culture. Of course each one can confront similar racist presumptions and repressions. These same repressions kept Black lawyers living next to Black laborers in the past, encouraging the unitary communities Goldengreyce so admires.
But how can this be a model for future communities? Except for small self-isolating communities such as those suggested above (and perhaps the Amish) which restrict individual freedoms through shunning of those who ignore group strictures, homogenous residential communities seem destined to be relegated to the past. It seems hard to teach my children the essential humanity of all, but say we'd prefer the house next door was owned and occupied by someone who looks like us. Seems perfectly reasonable to judge the behavior or motives of the new neighbors, but not their skin color.
BTW, it is also impressive how this somewhat superficial video was the jumping off point for this thoughtful discussion. I assume the creators were quite young, as most of the featured interviews are with people who I (at age 47) seem as not quite grown-up. Also, most of the white folks on the street were interviewed on the Clinton Hill side of Classon (yes, I know there are many whosay Clinton Hill doesn't really exist, but really?). The featured Black woman who made a disparaging comment about "Stuyvesant Heights" evidences a very shallow knowledge of the history of her own neighborhood, because of course Stuyvesant Heights predates the name Bedford-Stuyvesant.
Whoa, this comment is too long!
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Wow, I enjoyed reading the comments on this topic. I am considering moving to hopefully to Brooklyn. The area I am looking into is Bed-Stuy because moving from Texas in a neighborhood 30 miles north of Dallas it will definitely be a great experience I hope. I have never really lived in a neighborhood that featured mostly black residents so that will be new to me. The areas that I have lived in have been mostly a mixture of black, white, mexican, indian etc. The area I currently live in is considered a well to do area compared to some parts of Dallas. I have not seen one bad part of the city yet and there have only been 2 murders this year in this particular city. However people of all races are able to coexist as you say without any problems. Now, we still experience the typical driving while black issues, white women holding onto their purses as if someone will grab it etc. Racism is everywhere and I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.
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