Get Brooklynian.com by Email! 
Grab the Feed (RSS)Brooklynian » Forum » Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy »
-
can they please all of the people.. Discount Sneakers in a Duplex World By JENNIFER BLEYER MARVELL CRUICKSHANK, an apple-cheeked 25-year-old with jet-black braids, belongs to the third generation of her family to shop at Fulton Mall in Downtown Brooklyn. Her grandmother, who sewed her own clothes, ventured from Brownsville to buy fabric and patterns at Abraham & Straus. Ms. Cruickshank’s mother snapped up Christmas presents at Woolworth’s, enjoying as she did the aroma of the store’s fresh-baked cookies. And Ms. Cruickshank, a community organizer who lives in nearby Farragut Houses, recently snared discount sneakers and green cotton pajamas there for her daughters, Deonna, 8, and Tyonna, 4. But a great deal of new luxury housing is built or on the drawing board for Downtown Brooklyn, from the BellTel Lofts one block north of the mall to the new condos one block southwest at 110 Livingston Street. With the influx of affluent neighbors, related plans to refurbish Fulton Mall have worried Ms. Cruickshank and some other patrons of the vibrant shopping strip. The mall, they fear, will no longer be for them. “This mall caters to African-Americans, Latinos, Caribbeans,†said Ms. Cruickshank, sitting in Albee Square at the mall’s edge on an unseasonably balmy afternoon last week. Nearby, a jewelry counter displayed 200 styles of gold door-knocker earrings, and a small running-shoe shop offered Nike Air Force Ones decorated with candy-colored glitter and pictures of Tupac Shakur. •“When they close down all these local shops that cater to our hair, the clothes we buy, the food we eat, where are we going to shop?†Ms. Cruickshank asked. “Round up 10 people here, and I guarantee you they won’t say they want a Banana Republic. We don’t want another Manhattan. Let Brooklyn be Brooklyn.†Fulton Mall is a commercial heavyweight, according to its merchants association. It draws 100,000 shoppers each day, rings up more than $100 million in annual sales and commands rents of up to $250 a square foot, among the highest of any retail district in the city. But few of its customers are from the nearby brownstone neighborhoods. “The challenge the Fulton Mall has is a lack of retail diversity,†said Joseph Chan, president of the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership, the leader in the effort to renovate the mall. “There are certainly a lot of cellphone stores and shoe stores, for example. But in terms of retail that cuts across a broad socioeconomic spectrum, there’s not a lot right now.†The first order of business for Mr. Chan is a makeover of the streetscape — streamlining sign clutter, installing new bus shelters — to which the city has committed $9.5 million. As for new stores, Mr. Chan said, the choice will largely be driven by the many newcomers. “Basically,†he said, “you’re adding thousands of people who are going to need a quart of milk at 10 at night.†Local brokers say the new residents will also need a wine store, a specialty supermarket, new restaurants, dry cleaners and perhaps another bookstore. •“There are no good restaurants, there’s no midrange apparel or accessories,†said Faith Hope Consolo, an executive with Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate, which handles many of the store rentals in the downtown developments. “What we’re aiming for is a better neighborhood all around,†Ms. Consolo said. “That doesn’t mean Gucci, but maybe HMV, maybe Zara, maybe Equinox. We’re addressing chain restaurants like Cheesecake Factory and Legal Sea Foods. We’re not asking anybody to leave the street. We just have to bring in new stores in a way that everybody can work together. We’re Botoxing Fulton Street Mall.†Officials in Downtown Brooklyn also say they do not want to displace Ms. Cruickshank and the mall’s other longtime patrons. In a study of the mall that has served as a guide for Mr. Chan’s groups, the Pratt Center for Community Development recommends actively promoting the mall as a center for “urban gear†and “hip-hop fashion,†and maintaining it as a “uniquely Brooklyn†place. “You have to merge the old Fulton Mall with the new landscape,†Ms. Consolo said. “It’s kind of like a mixed marriage, and you have to make sure it works.†Still, Ms. Cruickshank remains skeptical. “If this plan goes through,†she said, “my children won’t be able to shop here. It isn’t fair.†http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/05/nyregion/thecity/05stre.html?n=Top%2fClassifieds%2fReal%20Estate%2fLocations%2fNew%20York%2fNew%20York%20City%2fBrooklyn&pagewanted=print
-
Interesting article, but I feel torn on this one. Personally, I can't see Fulton Mall changing all that much. For decades it has been a discount shopping strip and I doubt that any amount of luxury housing will change that. On the other hand, it's a great location and plenty of other areas nearby have changed drastically in the past 10-15 years. Time will tell, I guess.
-
You have to move a lot of merchandise to be able to afford $250/ft rent. Adding a few yuppies who want a Banana Republic or whatever else isn't going to instantly change the strip. Whatever new stores go in there will need to have a very large demand and a very large customer base to support the level of rents that the current stores are able to support. I think this is recognized by those doing the planning and thus they see a need to bring in stores that will continue to cater to the current shoppers while also catering to the new residents. The stores mentioned, HMV, etc. have the best chance of doing that. Landlords will not accept lower rents just to have higher end stores.
-
I'm all for change on this one. I'm unconvinced that the mall as it stands adds any value to Fulton Street, or that the upgrade would take away from consumers looking for similar items. I'd love for them to do something different with that space. I could personally do without an Equinox, but if they put in, say an H&M or even something like an Old Navy, I'd be very excited. And even more broke than I am already, I'm guessing.
-
chefsgirl06 » I'm all for change on this one. I'm unconvinced that the mall as it stands adds any value to Fulton Street, or that the upgrade would take away from consumers looking for similar items. I'd love for them to do something different with that space. I could personally do without an Equinox, but if they put in, say an H&M or even something like an Old Navy, I'd be very excited. And even more broke than I am already, I'm guessing.
You are aware there is an Old Navy just one subway stop away from there (actually walking distance) at the Atlantic Mall, right? -
I am. Doesn't change my thoughts on the state of the mall (which I've watched deteriorate over many, many years).
-
didn't they just add a forever 21 to that mall? I'm sure an H&M would do well.like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote
-
I don't understand why this kind of planning has to be centralized? Can't the owner or owners of the mall area properties simply rent to the highest bidder and let the market take care of what shops open up? If there is consumer demand for certain stores, then they will open and succeed; if not, then not. Seems pretty simple, fair and democratic to me.
-
Say goodbye to Fulton Mall once Ratner's Monstrosity is built. There's no way the city would green light Ratner withought a plan up their sleeves to destroy Fulton Mall as we know it and replace it with upscale shops catering to the new face of downtown Brooklyn. Get your nostalgia photos quick folks.
-
Gorilla » Say goodbye to Fulton Mall once Ratner's Monstrosity is built. There's no way the city would green light Ratner withought a plan up their sleeves to destroy Fulton Mall as we know it and replace it with upscale shops catering to the new face of downtown Brooklyn. Get your nostalgia photos quick folks.
Honestly, there's nothing much to be nostalgic about at the Fulton Mall right now.
-
Gorilla » Get your nostalgia photos quick folks.
What exactly are you taking nostalgia photos of? The fake-gold jewelers?Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org -
Gorilla » Say goodbye to Fulton Mall once Ratner's Monstrosity is built. There's no way the city would green light Ratner withought a plan up their sleeves to destroy Fulton Mall as we know it and replace it with upscale shops catering to the new face of downtown Brooklyn. Get your nostalgia photos quick folks.
At first this post made very little (aka "no") sense to me. But then I finally understood. You hate the Ratner plan. AY project is bad, so anything else going on must therefore be an excuse to mention how bad it is. It's all clear now. I have soreness in my knee that I think also might be Ratner's fault, so I sympathize. On this one, I'm with Boygabriel and Carnivore; of all the things I might one day be nostalgic for, the Fulton Mall is definitely not one of them. -
Gorilla » Say goodbye to Fulton Mall once Ratner's Monstrosity is built. There's no way the city would green light Ratner withought a plan up their sleeves to destroy Fulton Mall as we know it and replace it with upscale shops catering to the new face of downtown Brooklyn. Get your nostalgia photos quick folks.
sadly, i doubt it. just look at the (ratner) atlantic mall. Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit -
Subject: Re: Change comes to Fulton Mall?
“This mall caters to African-Americans, Latinos, Caribbeans,†said Ms. Cruickshank, sitting in Albee Square at the mall’s edge on an unseasonably balmy afternoon last week. Nearby, a jewelry counter displayed 200 styles of gold door-knocker earrings, and a small running-shoe shop offered Nike Air Force Ones decorated with candy-colored glitter and pictures of Tupac Shakur. “When they close down all these local shops that cater to our hair, the clothes we buy, the food we eat, where are we going to shop?†Ms. Cruickshank asked. “Round up 10 people here, and I guarantee you they won’t say they want a Banana Republic. We don’t want another Manhattan. Let Brooklyn be Brooklyn.†Fulton Mall is a commercial heavyweight, according to its merchants association. It draws 100,000 shoppers each day, rings up more than $100 million in annual sales and commands rents of up to $250 a square foot, among the highest of any retail district in the city. But few of its customers are from the nearby brownstone neighborhoods. “The challenge the Fulton Mall has is a lack of retail diversity,†said Joseph Chan, president of the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership, the leader in the effort to renovate the mall. “There are certainly a lot of cellphone stores and shoe stores, for example. But in terms of retail that cuts across a broad socioeconomic spectrum, there’s not a lot right now.†Officials in Downtown Brooklyn also say they do not want to displace Ms. Cruickshank and the mall’s other longtime patrons. In a study of the mall that has served as a guide for Mr. Chan’s groups, the Pratt Center for Community Development recommends actively promoting the mall as a center for “urban gear†and “hip-hop fashion,†and maintaining it as a “uniquely Brooklyn†place. Well, this pretty much says it all right here...when corporate America, Madison Avenue and the branding machinery hard at work every day in the boutique advertising agencies that have made branding and market placement a virtual post-Modern art form continue to view Latinos, Blacks and Carribbeans as little more than CONSUMERS of "urban gear" and "hip-hop fashion," then you pretty much have your answer as to why Fulton Mall is the way it is now, and what it will be like in the future. And "retail diversity" is a challenge in Fulton Mall? Huh, bruh? You think? When you've been "branded" as basically a consumerist Street-Thug demographic, its no wonder. Sure, we'll gladly and kindly look the other way while we take the money from you we THINK you're making dealing drugs and perpetrating criminality and making Hip-Hop records, etc., etc. For in America, as Madison Avenue and the Up East Yankee Planter-Cracker Class (i.e. the Bush Family) knows all too well, "It's Money That Matters," as Randy Newman told us, and as long as you're doing your step-and-fetchit part to remain "Welcome to the Machine," then we'll gladly seperate you from your damned bread every weekend. Huh, bruh? With the retail rental fees in Fulton Mall as exorbitant as they are, the market, carried even as it is on the slim backs of the Whitman and Farrgut Houses residents, is obviously there, and that market CONTINUES in coming out to SPEND, as the Madison Ave. eggheads and their branding cronies obviously know and EXPLOIT DAILY. No, the biggest "challenge" for Madison Ave. and their cronies is to "address retail diversity" in a way that will allow them to ALSO exploit the coming White Professional Class that Ratner and the rest of the "Brooklyn Business Interests" are fixing to cater to into the considerable money-maw, while at the same time not lose the sizeable fortune they already make on Nike, Converse and cellphone sales, which we all know that THOSE Black folks use in abundance... How about seeing Black and Latino folks as INDIVIDUALS, as PEOPLE with a diversity all their own, and an economic stratification similar to their own more-familiar white faces to begin with, straight off the tizzop, instead of seeing all of "THEM" as "poor and needy and incapable of helping themselves" as I heard one BBC reporter peg the New Orleans Convention Center victims in Spike Lee's Katrina documentary tonight, or as those only interested in "urban gear?" How about THAT? And how about this question for y'all? Is it inconceiveable to think that Black, Latino and Carribbean residents of either housing project, or anywhere in downtown Brooklyn, for that matter, might in fact be ALSO university-educated and in need of a place to buy an Italian suit for a business meeting, a Palm Pilot, a high-end mountain bike for their weekend leisure in Brooklyn, a Le Cruset saucepan (which they can, in fact, buy at Macy's) or daresay a stack of books to sit home by the fireplace with in their Fort Greene brownstone, or have all those roles tacitly become the purvey of the New York whites (and I'm white, and educated, and a registered, card-carrying, Old-Skool New York City Left-Wing activist Liberal, before any Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights Republican decides to try and get off on me)? And here's another question: instead of a place to buy door-knocker pimp-daddy gold accoutrements, how about an APPLE STORE right in the heart of Fulton Mall and downtown Brooklyn? Why not? A final, parting shot: if the codetalking going on in the above quote is not the epitome of White-washed s**t-talk reductionist admonishment to local Black folks to basically "mind their place" and be happy with the "style" and roles Pratt and others have "defined" for them in Brooklyn, then I'll eat my shorts on my grandmother's grave up in St. Raymond's in the Bronx on Christmas Day. Sounds to me like Pratt is nothing more than a hardcore racist Right-Wing product-development think-tank when they are perpetuating foolishness like the above absurdity in print, nothing more than a TOOL of said economic machine controlled by Madison Ave. and the Bushes and the Reaganite Republicans who just won't go away... Whoever kicked that statement out of Pratt ought to be roundly drawn and quartered in Fort Greene Park at sundown, y'heard? Bet..."Remain a positive source of energy so that others around you may become inspired..."
--gd, 1986 -
Al Thomas, that was an interesting post, although I'm only 37% confident that I understand your overall point. One thing, though, is that I don't understand why you refer to the selling of merchandise as exploitation. As of a week ago I didn't own a winter coat. When I went shopping, found a coat that's warm and bought it, I was pretty happy, b/c it gets cold in the city. It never crossed my mind that I was being exploited. Also, if you think selling things is an act of exploitation, why do you then call for an Apple store in the Fulton Mall? Wouldn't Apple just be exploiting us all with their evil gadgets and all? Otherwise I agree with your criticism of Pratt et al, and of the notion that it's only white folks who need nice suits, books, etc. I also don't understand why this issue can't just be simply resolved by the market.
-
escap » I don't understand why you refer to the selling of merchandise as exploitation. As of a week ago I didn't own a winter coat. When I went shopping, found a coat that's warm and bought it, I was pretty happy, b/c it gets cold in the city. It never crossed my mind that I was being exploited. Also, if you think selling things is an act of exploitation, why do you then call for an Apple store in the Fulton Mall? Wouldn't Apple just be exploiting us all with their evil gadgets and all? Otherwise I agree with your criticism of Pratt et al, and of the notion that it's only white folks who need nice suits, books, etc. I also don't understand why this issue can't just be simply resolved by the market.
My point exactly. To wit: While your search for and choice of a simple winter coat is a bad and improper example to illustrate my point of market exploitation, I will say that when the forces that CONTROL AND SHAPE the market and LIMIT THE CHOICES for purchase said market has available to them, and hence DEFINES AND SHAPES said market by the "BUY this pair of sneakers/cellphone/door-knocker gold/"urban gear", BE THIS STEREOTYPE" type of thinking, then said exploitation has been pulled off silently, effectively, and at maximum tarriff (both financially and psychically, I might add). And that's my point, clearly. Those buying sneakers and gold and cellphones down on Fulton Mall are wholly EXPLOITED DAILY without it EVER CROSSING THEIR MINDS, y'heard? While it may be true by one point of view (yours, not mine) that Apple might be exploiting people with the presence of an Apple Store in downtown Brooklyn, I think that their presence as a means to get technology into the hands of the Brooklyn proletariat would far outweigh any "exploitave market strategy" you'd like to assign to the Cupertino bunch. And, you know, 37% ain't fixin' to git you much, except maybe at one of the 99-cent stores down on Fulton Mall."Remain a positive source of energy so that others around you may become inspired..."
--gd, 1986 -
Al, this is truly a remarkable post. I am dizzied by your logic, and for the first time in the history of my membership on this forum am completely at a loss as to what to say.
-
y'heard wtf
-
Let me see if I can explain, escap -- I think Al is referring to the choice available at the Fulton Mall being itself exploitive. In other words -- "The Fulton Mall offers a particular kind of merchandise that is generally targeted towards what is called an 'urban' market, and this market is created by an aggressive marketing campaign designed to convince people in a lower income bracket that owning certain key items is of high importance, and this marketing is a Sekrit Plot to keep those in lower incomes focused on trivial matters so they end up distracted from the ways in which they are being exploited by the people in charge." I've heard this argument before and often can translate.
-
Subject: Change comes to Fulton Mall
Yes, a truly excellent post. Kudos to Al. -
:thumbs up: to Al T
-
There are things to be nostalgic about with respect to Fulton Mall. When I was a kid there were two movie theatres on the mall, the Duffield, (which was the one your parents never let you go to because it was full of hooligans, weed smokers and perverts) and another which was actually on Fulton in the location where the church currently sits. While I don't miss the hooligans, weed smokers and pervs, I do miss the fact that there were huge theaters in that area instead of the court st 12 which has screens the size of a small plasma tv. I also miss the restaurant at A&S. Good food, and nice older ladies waiting tables who would pintch our cheeks and complement us on our manners. I miss Martin's with the carpet that was so thich it absorbed th enoise from the street once you steped inside. I miss driving down Fulton Street I miss Gage and Tollner (who the $(#* thought it was a good idea to turn it into a TGIFriday?) I miss the roasted nuts you could buy at Woolworths, and the old fashioned lunch counter that ran the length of the store. That's what I miss...
-
homeowner » There are things to be nostalgic about with respect to Fulton Mall. When I was a kid there were two movie theatres on the mall, the Duffield, (which was the one your parents never let you go to because it was full of hooligans, weed smokers and perverts) and another which was actually on Fulton in the location where the church currently sits. While I don't miss the hooligans, weed smokers and pervs, I do miss the fact that there were huge theaters in that area instead of the court st 12 which has screens the size of a small plasma tv. I also miss the restaurant at A&S. Good food, and nice older ladies waiting tables who would pintch our cheeks and complement us on our manners. I miss Martin's with the carpet that was so thich it absorbed th enoise from the street once you steped inside. I miss driving down Fulton Street I miss Gage and Tollner (who the $(#* thought it was a good idea to turn it into a TGIFriday?) I miss the roasted nuts you could buy at Woolworths, and the old fashioned lunch counter that ran the length of the store. That's what I miss...
I agree with you but I will add one more that I miss - Mays -
Subject: Re: Change comes to Fulton Mall
looking4years » Yes, a truly excellent post. Kudos to Al.
thalia » thumbs up to Al
...You agree with his assessment?... Huh. Okay, I won't deny that companies do tend to market one type of merchandise to one market, and other kinds of merchandise to another market, but I do NOT agree that this is any kind of over-arching "plot" or an exploitative force being directed intentionally as a political tool. I think that this is what Al is arguing, but I would strongly disagree with it. Because all of us get marketed to, and the ones doing the marketing are individual businessmen. They don't have any intentional "I shall concentrate this business on an urban market in an effort to suppress this lower class" goal in mind, they're just trying to make a buck. Some of them may pull some questionable crap to do so, but at the heart of it, making a buck is all they're doing rather trying to Keep The Underclass Pawns To The System or anything like that. After all, if you're REALLY trying to conduct class warfare, why would you choose a weapon that could be so easily disarmed? All anyone has to do to resist the marketing is just say "no thanks, I'll keep looking." -
Homeowner, Thanks for taking me back to the Woolworth counter. I remember many a grilled cheese and chocolate shake there. Does WalMart have a lunch counter? If not, then they should. It's a great tradition.
-
Subject: Re: Change comes to Fulton Mall
queencallipygos » [quote="looking4years"]Yes, a truly excellent post. Kudos to Al.
thalia » thumbs up to Al
...You agree with his assessment?... Huh. Okay, I won't deny that companies do tend to market one type of merchandise to one market, and other kinds of merchandise to another market, but I do NOT agree that this is any kind of over-arching "plot" or an exploitative force being directed intentionally as a political tool. I think that this is what Al is arguing, but I would strongly disagree with it. Because all of us get marketed to, and the ones doing the marketing are individual businessmen. They don't have any intentional "I shall concentrate this business on an urban market in an effort to suppress this lower class" goal in mind, they're just trying to make a buck. Some of them may pull some questionable crap to do so, but at the heart of it, making a buck is all they're doing rather trying to Keep The Underclass Pawns To The System or anything like that. After all, if you're REALLY trying to conduct class warfare, why would you choose a weapon that could be so easily disarmed? All anyone has to do to resist the marketing is just say "no thanks, I'll keep looking."[/quote] Actually, as I am currently in business school, I can attest to the fact that business people do in fact purposely try to suppress the lower class. In fact, I am taking a class in the spring semester called "How to market needless, materialistic crap to poor black people in an effort to keep them marginalized and prevent them from getting useful things like ipods." I hear it's one of the most popular courses on campus. -
well, though escap has his tongue firmly in cheek, there is one example i can think of where this rings true. if you think of a drug dealer as a business person, he plies his drug trade in the housing projects. his customers buy it, they become marginalized and this prevents them from becoming productive members of society. and yes, this is an extremely popular course on this campus we call life. to wit, look at where these businesses are being opened up - on the fringes ... a bit obtuse, perhaps, but this does happen. i for one, support al T.
-
ltjbukem » i for one, support al T.
Really? I always thought you were more in line with the Pratt viewpoint of keeping the city gritty and preventing the influx of things like Apple stores. On the other hand, after thinking things over my heart truly goes out to the African American community of NYC. Think about it--first brought over in bondage across the Atlantic, then forced into slavery and hard labor and abuse for centuries, families broken up, culture stripped away by force, language and history lost. Gaining freedom only to find it a phantom, replaced by sharecropping, jim crow laws, the rise of the KKK, segregation, discrimination, and worse. Fleeing the racism of the south they found no respite in the northern cities, where they encountered further discrimination and hostility, grueling factory conditions and poverty-stricken ghettos. More recently they've had to overcome the crack epidemic, AIDS, gun violence and gangs, poverty, unemployment. But now comes the worst of all: people are trying to sell them sneakers and cell phones!!! No!!!!! They've overcome all the rest, but surely this will prove too horrible. -
Classic post, escap! You really ought to start you own blog once you finish school.
-
ltjbukem » if you think of a drug dealer as a business person, he plies his drug trade in the housing projects. his customers buy it, they become marginalized and this prevents them from becoming productive members of society.[...snip] a bit obtuse, perhaps, but this does happen. i for one, support al T.
But my point is -- to use your analogy -- that the reason the drug dealer is in the projects isn't because he's thinking, "I desire to keep those unfortunates in the projects at a disadvantage, so I shall ply my trade there, tally-ho." Instead, what he's thinking is, "I need to go where I'm going to be able to sell the most, and that's the most likely place." A drug dealer doesn't GIVE a shit what happens to the people who buy from him (clearly, since, well, he's selling them drugs). Yes, the persons who buy drugs do remain at a disadvantage, but that is a side effect of them buying drugs -- it is not the aim of the person selling drugs. The person selling drugs is just trying to make money. And that's all businessmen are trying to do -- make money. Their goals are purely mercenary. Assigning any kind of societal Grand Plan to their goals, as Al seems to be trying to do, is naive at best, and paranoid at worst. -
OMG the DUFFIELD? I saw School Daze there and cats ran across the front of the theatre. Y'all are some ol' heads (and yes, I'm having an OT moment). Screw that, I'll take a Woolworth's in its heyday over another gold chain outlet.
-
I would not mind seeing a wider selection of shops in the Fulton Mall. The statement in the article that most FM shoppers are not from the nabe is silly. Are most Manhattan shoppers from Manhattan ? ? And yes certain types of products are marketed to certain groups of people from cheap malt liquor to over priced, cheaply manufactured clothing. Every one acts as if this is the first time people with money have moved to the nabe. As long as I've lived here there's been a significant amount of black people earning a high income. Bed Stuy has always had a huge middle class population. Why is that not reflected in the places like Fulton Mall? It is what it is. And its up to us to free the chains from our minds.
-
It is not reflected because Fulton Mall businesses make a lot of money as it is because there is a large segment of the African American community in Brooklyn that buys the cheap (expensive) junk. The problem is that a critique of the selection always garners the same response whereby someone in the African American community cries racism and lumps all blacks into the same category. It's tiresome. Until the African American community publicly recognizes that not every black in America has the same interests or background, you'll always get kneejerk reactions that, frankly, re-enforce stereotypes and give people who are racist ammunition.
-
Again, I don't understand why we can't just let the market decide this. It seems so simple, why make it complicated?!
-
my grand pa use to own a store there in the 70's to 80's and people changed. and now the hood has changed around it.Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure). -
judging from the throngs who go to the fulton st mall, myself included when i need to check out some limited edition sneakers, i think the market has decided that the stores at fulton st mall are a success. also, where else can you find every single cell service provider from cingular to sprint to tmobile etc? it's a one stop shop. and there's a rite aid and duane reade there also from what i recall.
-
woman/man cannot live by limited edition sneakers and cell phones alone
-
ltjbukem » And that's all businessmen are trying to do -- make money. Their goals are purely mercenary. Assigning any kind of societal Grand Plan to their goals, as Al seems to be trying to do, is naive at best, and paranoid at worst.
Yeah, that's all they're trying to do, is make money. Apparently you've never heard of the TRI-LATERAL COMMISSION, and GWB's Daddy's New World Order, and how that all relates. Or about the infamous Triangle Trade from Colonial and slavery days. As Mother Jones told us wisely, "Sit down! Read! Prepare Yourself for the Coming Conflicts!" And yeah, we free our minds from the chains...IF we can train our minds to question, challenge and resist authority, IF we can overcome an institutionalized educational system that in many cases never teaches us to THINK at all, but rather SOCIALIZE ourselves into Good, Appeasing, Lemming-Like Snarkies. Wait, did I say that? -
queencallipygos » [quote="ltjbukem"] And that's all businessmen are trying to do -- make money. Their goals are purely mercenary. Assigning any kind of societal Grand Plan to their goals, as Al seems to be trying to do, is naive at best, and paranoid at worst.
Yeah, that's all they're trying to do, is make money. Apparently you've never heard of the TRI-LATERAL COMMISSION, and GWB's Daddy's New World Order, and how that all relates. Or about the infamous Triangle Trade from Colonial and slavery days. [/quote] ...Which was itself a business deal, created by three corporations trying simply to make money. Your point?And yeah, we free our minds from the chains...IF we can train our minds to question, challenge and resist authority, IF we can overcome an institutionalized educational system that in many cases never teaches us to THINK at all, but rather SOCIALIZE ourselves into Good, Appeasing, Lemming-Like Snarkies. Wait, did I say that?
Again, I ask you -- if the powers that be really WERE trying to suppress the masses, why would they choose such an easily-neutralized weapons as commerce? Think about it -- all you need to do to resist the effects of this marketing is say, "no thank you." I don' t know about you, but if I really wanted to control a large segment of the population, I wouldn't use a tool that granted the individual any free will at all. Economics =/= mind control. -
In terms of the nostalgia/preservation factor, from a hip-hop point of view Fulton Mall is a huge tourist attraction/place of interest for people overseas, from Japan to Germany to the UK - it's been immortalised in many a song and, while I'm sure that doesn't show up in any of the real estate surveys, it's as famous for a whole group of people as certain Manhattan department stores/blocks. To see it full of the same stores you can find in every city or mall would be a shame.
-
Anonymous » In terms of the nostalgia/preservation factor, from a hip-hop point of view Fulton Mall is a huge tourist attraction/place of interest for people overseas, from Japan to Germany to the UK - it's been immortalised in many a song and, while I'm sure that doesn't show up in any of the real estate surveys, it's as famous for a whole group of people as certain Manhattan department stores/blocks. To see it full of the same stores you can find in every city or mall would be a shame.
Good point about the tourism factor. But in terms of the actual stuff sold, there's really nothing special there. There are lots of places in the city with similar wares (Canal St and Fordham Rd, just to name 2). -
Good point about the tourism factor. But in terms of the actual stuff sold, there's really nothing special there. There are lots of places in the city with similar wares (Canal St and Fordham Rd, just to name 2).
I'm sure you could say that about a lot of tourist spots - beyond the experience of going there, there's often little of real value there that you couldn't get elsewhere (and often cheaper)! I know a couple of Japanese friends who wanted to go because someone made a song about it, and so if they can go home and tell their friends that their new sneakers are from there then that's them happy. I guess it's all just part of the intangible 'flavour' or 'vibe' of the place, even if it may look garish or cheap to some people. -
What is left of those days is about to quickly disappear.
The National Retailers Arrive In Force:
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/08/nyt-national-retailers-flock-to-fulton-mall/?stream=true
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
The electronics retailer, the Wiz, started out as a little store on Fulton St. What hurt quite a bit was when the old big box stores went out of business. Korvettes, A&S were major players in that area. I used to shop there quite a bit. But that was back in the 70s.
Welcome! Please log in to post, or register a new account!