Backflow Prevention Devices?

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Backflow Prevention Devices?

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kosherdave
The Kosherist
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 1,036

Does anyone know of a Master Plumbers, Professional Engineer or Registered Architects who is familiar with Backflow Prevention Devices? My coop needs to have one install a backflow device for the shops we have below us. We need to get someone ASAP as the DEP has stated this work must start soon.

They would need to know what a Backflow Prevention Device is and would therefore be familiar with dealing with these types of devices in either a commercial or residential setting, it cannot be someone who is just a regular plumber or engineer or an "architect friend". This person will need to verify if more than one device will be required since we have two commercial properties that fall into the business types on this list. Let me know if you’ve dealt with this before and how you handled it, and if you have any suggestions or know of any of the above mentioned professionals.

Thanks!

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,021

You may get some good info from the Brooklynians, but I would also post to Brownstoner's forum.

http://www.brownstoner.com/forum/

I have rec'd great advice from them.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
fafner
getting it
Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 93

These are required now to prevent contaminated water in your building from flowing back into the water mains and possibly contaminating others in the surrounding buildings.

It isn't a particularly hard device to install and any real plumber can do it. It is put after the water meter and main shutoff valve on and is a small in-line one way valve.

In the past we had Vigilante install one for us and it was approximately 500 bucks from what I recall (this was 3 years ago)

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Superclam
getting it
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 140

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you just need a licensed plumber for this. He can fill out a plumbing repair slip to file w/ the DOB. If for some reason you need plans filed, the plumber will let you know & you'll need a mechanical engineer.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
photogirl
getting it
Joined: May '10
Posts: 99

My plumber, who is licensed and absolutely terrific, is a licensed backflow tester. He is great to work with and reasonably priced. I recommend him highly. His name is Anthony D'Ella of Four Aces Plumbing and Heating. His number is 718-366-2973.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
pulpandbean
getting it
Joined: Apr '10
Posts: 54

listen dude this is no big deal. my guy is piped out my coffee shop all code and not a drip extra. donald 9178737210

# Posted 2 yrs ago
modsquad2.0
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 197

You people are all high. Domestic water will run up to 5K. a sprinkler feed will add another 10K at least.
Double check valve backflow preventors are not off the shelf vacuum breakers or home depot check valves. You need one for every water connection coming into the building, not for individual tenants, domestic and sprinkler. Sprinkler is what will kill you. I've used Backflow Preventiom of NY for 2 jobs. The guy is so honest he talked himself out of a third job.
http://rpzny.com/

# Posted 2 yrs ago
fafner
getting it
Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 93

modsquad who mentioned anything about pricing water service or sprinker feeds? He was asking about backflow preventers, it is a simple cut of the service main and installation of a valve which is a few hundred bucks.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
modsquad2.0
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 197

fafner said:
modsquad who mentioned anything about pricing water service or sprinker feeds? He was asking about backflow preventers, it is a simple cut of the service main and installation of a valve which is a few hundred bucks.

Sorry, wrong. All water taps to the City water supply need to be equipped with the DVBP device. OP mentions he is under the gun of DEP. He's received a letter indicating a hazard level. OP can put off an immediate fine assessment by having an engineer certify that installation is in progress. They will not fine for lack thereof. See the following for a synopsis.
http://www.habitatmag.com/Publication-Content/2010-October/Web-Exclusives/Backflow-Preventer-Crackdown

How much does it cost? According to the city, estimating based on average industry prices for parts and labor, it can run $5,000 to $13,000 for small to mid-size buildings, and between $14,000 and $34,000 for large high-rises. Failure to comply can lead to fines of up to $2,000. If you ignore the fines, the City can shut off the water supply to your building.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
modsquad2.0
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 197

Addendum: If building owners have not received a letter then do nothing. It could take years for the DEP to get to everyone.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
fafner
getting it
Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 93

modsquad2.0 said:
Sorry, wrong. All water taps to the City water supply need to be equipped with the DVBP device.

Not gonna get in a pissing match but maybe you should read what you cite. Backflow preventers are not required for every building in nyc.

What types of properties are required to install a backflow prevention device?
Unless they receive a specific exemption from DEP, the following types of businesses are required to use backflow preventers:

Metal plating, cleaning, processing or fabricating facilities
Photo-processing facilities
Laundries and dry cleaners
Commercial car washes
Greenhouses
Hospitals, Clinics and Laboratories (including veterinary hospitals)
Medical and Dental Offices
Funeral Parlors
Food processing plants and meat / fish packers
Dye Plants
Paper processors
Auto Repair Shops
Breweries
Tanneries
Exterminators
Large residential dwellings with water boilers that use rust-inhibitors or other water treatment chemicals, (“treated water boilers”)
Sewage treatment plants or handling facilities
Premises with multiple water service lines;
Premises with roof tanks and elevated storage lines
Canneries
Slaughterhouse / Live Poultry Processing Facilities
Ice Manufacturing Facilities
Printing Facilities
Supermarkets
Premises with large boilers or chemically treated boilers
Warehouses (with toxic chemical storage)
Premises with Commercial or Public Kitchens
Premises with water cooled equipment or chillers
Premises with Groundwater Wells
Premises that Reuse or Recycle Water
Shipyards and Marinas
Schools and Colleges
Food Preparation Facilities
Nursing Homes
Barber Shops & Beauty Salons
Properties with in-ground irrigation sprinklers

# Posted 2 yrs ago
modsquad2.0
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 197

Read what you just quoted from the DEP: I'll highlight and add notes.

fafner said:
Not gonna get in a pissing match but maybe you should read what you cite. Backflow preventers are not required for every building in nyc.

What types of properties are required to install a backflow prevention device?
Unless they receive a specific exemption from DEP, the following types of businesses are required to use backflow preventers:

Metal plating, cleaning, processing or fabricating facilities
Photo-processing facilities
Laundries and dry cleaners
Commercial car washes
Greenhouses
Hospitals, Clinics and Laboratories (including veterinary hospitals)
Medical and Dental Offices
Funeral Parlors
Food processing plants and meat / fish packers
Dye Plants
Paper processors
Auto Repair Shops
Breweries
Tanneries
Exterminators
Large residential dwellings with water boilers that use rust-inhibitors or other water treatment chemicals Any boiler that uses water to generate heat would fall under the jurisdiction., (“treated water boilers”)
Sewage treatment plants or handling facilities
Premises with multiple water service lines this would include a domestic water line and a sprinkler tap.;
Premises with roof tanksSprinklers and/or domestic for pressure. and elevated storage lines
Canneries
Slaughterhouse / Live Poultry Processing Facilities
Ice Manufacturing Facilities
Printing Facilities
Supermarkets
Premises with large boilers A large boiler is considered over 350,000 BTUs, easy for almost any brownstone to have. or chemically treated boilersEven if the boiler is below 350K most likely it is treated with something which would require the BF installed.
Warehouses (with toxic chemical storage)
Premises with Commercial or Public Kitchens
Premises with water cooled equipment or chillers
Premises with Groundwater Wells
Premises that Reuse or Recycle Water
Shipyards and Marinas
Schools and Colleges
Food Preparation Facilities
Nursing Homes
Barber Shops & Beauty Salons
Properties with in-ground irrigation sprinklers

Like the OP said he has a notice from the DEP. Based on the definitions they have determined that the building requires BFs.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
fafner
getting it
Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 93

Ok, clearly you have a preset notion in your head that you are right. Not all houses are have boilers treated with chemicals, not all houses have 350k btu boilers. Just correcting your statement that EVERY house in the entire 5 boroughs needs to have a BFPD installed.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
modsquad2.0
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 197

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/water_sewer/42_doh_supplement.pdf
This is a revision that has basically the same list but uses the phrases "Owners of properties" and "property" and "facility" instead of "businesses". If all else is exempt except for the fact you're an amateur tanner (as opposed to a "business") you would need to install the BFD.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
fafner
getting it
Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 93

I will let you know when I get a notice to comply on any of my properties. I wouldn't hold your breath though.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
modsquad2.0
getting it
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 197

Feigning knowledge (a few hundred bucks} of the requirements for the Backflow Valve because you own "properties" is hardly the same as me making a blanket statement regarding who is required to install one.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
fafner
getting it
Joined: Apr '07
Posts: 93

I also have a masters degree in mechanical engineering and experience with having installed one, so my lack of knowledge isn't an issue. I am sure the plumbers are capitalizing on the waves of people needing these now and increased the price, my price was from 3 years ago as I mentioned.

# Posted 2 yrs ago