Lincoln Statue - Dishonor Continues

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Lincoln Statue - Dishonor Continues

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richard
getting it
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 78

In 1869 the first statue dedicated to Abraham Lincoln was unveiled at the north end of the axis of Prospect Park Plaza. Facing north, he holds the Emancipation Proclamation, and points to the words “shall be forever free.”
In 1895, the statue was turned around, marched into the park and abandoned in the Concert Grove. After 115 years, the statue is to return to Grand Army Plaza.

The location most in conformance with the 1865 plans of Calvert Vaux and Frederick Law Omlsted is on the plaza’s axis between the Arch and Fountain, facing north overlooking Bailey Fountain. Viewed from the large public area surrounding the fountain basin, Lincoln will be silhouetted in front of Duncan’s Arch. Grand Army Plaza will become a well-known Civil War Memorial - the site of class trips, political speeches, after dinner strolls and a place to celebrate Decoration Day.

1867, two years after slavery was abolished and Lincoln’s assassination, Vaux, Olmsted and Stranahan opened the elliptical plaza whose axis extended north to the Manhattan mansion of William Astor. Vaux, Olmsted and Stranahan were dedicated Lincoln men, Astor’s circle was not. Two years later, the statue, stressing the words, confronted those in the mansion who had opposed the war and Lincoln. Political tides changed in 1877. In 1895, Olmsted retired, the Lincoln statue was removed and Vaux drowned in Gravesend. Six months later, the Supreme Court ruled racial segregation Constitutional.

Will the Lincoln statue end up in a remote corner, facing south, staring across traffic at “his” plaza. Or will his location command the respect and honor this President and his legacy is due?

The alignment of the plaza and mansion:

http://www.rfkessler.com/coincidenceColor.pdf

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
witch-king
Rex Aeterna
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 498

Lincoln's respect for habeas corpus was notable as well.

your anger is delicious. - dieter

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

This again, Richard? By all means, start a petition about the placement of Lincoln's statue with respect to GAP, but stop trying to justify things with your half-baked theory.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Orlando Ozio
what am I, new?
Joined: May '10
Posts: 7

“I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the Negro into our social and political life as our equal.” —Abraham Lincoln

Certainly seems like a man Brooklyn would want to take extra care to honor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
Boygabriel
M Train Devotee, G Train Appreciator
Joined: Nov '05
Posts: 4,431

Whoa- this thread is awesome.

Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org

# Posted 2 yrs ago
8thandPrez
Stroller Person
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 1,274

I think GAP needs a bit more than Lincoln to make it an agreeable place for an after-dinner stroll...

(ps, Decoration Day? I'm gay... how did I end up missing this holiday?)

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,386

Decoration day does sound like it would be fabulous.

HGTV would totally run an episode on how one best prepares for it.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
richard
getting it
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 78

Do you think Vaux, Omlsted and Stranahan positioned the Lincoln statue on a whim? Do you think it was coincidence that the axis of the Plaza was aimed at Astor's house?
Is their motive in positioning the statue meaningful? You know it was aimed at Astor's house because his house eventually became the Empire State Building and today, looking down that same axis, you see the Empire State Building framed inside the Arch, bisecting it and Bailey Fountain. The goal is to protect the view of the Tower in the Arch from being eclipsed by Building Six of Atlantic Yards. Historic Visual Corridor.

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
witch-king
Rex Aeterna
Joined: Jan '07
Posts: 498

Where's Dan Brown when we need him?

your anger is delicious. - dieter

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

richard said:
Do you think Vaux, Omlsted and Stranahan positioned the Lincoln statue on a whim? Do you think it was coincidence that the axis of the Plaza was aimed at Astor's house?
Is their motive in positioning the statue meaningful? You know it was aimed at Astor's house because his house eventually became the Empire State Building and today, looking down that same axis, you see the Empire State Building framed inside the Arch, bisecting it and Bailey Fountain. The goal is to protect the view of the Tower in the Arch from being eclipsed by Building Six of Atlantic Yards. Historic Visual Corridor.

I like the fact that you continue to blatantly ignore:

- the plaza is oriented towards the magnetic north at the time of construction
- the alignment on the ESB is certainly not perfect, it's a few degrees off. If you could be bothered to check your alignment with something other than your eyeball and an extended thumb, this would be clear as day.
- even if the alignment was perfect, the line of sight would have never allowed a view of the 4 story Astor mansion from GAP.
- even if the mansion was visible from GAP, you're completely out of touch with human nature - monuments are built to honor and celebrate. How many monuments can you name that were built to vilify?

Your overwhelming desire to become known as the sleuth that cracked the code has made you blind to the fact that there is no code. The fact that you ignore, instead of disprove, the alignment info that I've pointed out shows that you have no interest in the truth.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,386

Whyfi-
You are completely correct.

Hence, I believe this thread is an excellent place to discuss how Decoration Day would be best prepared for.

I'm sure the staff of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is always looking for new ideas.

And I'd hate for that show to go off the air. It is a favorite

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

Is that show still around? It got all kinds of love early on, but I haven't heard anything in a while. Are all of the original members around or did some get big heads and try a solo career?

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
richard
getting it
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 78

Hi WhyFi,
- the plaza is oriented towards the magnetic north at the time of construction - Okay.

- the alignment on the ESB is certainly not perfect, it's a few degrees off. If you could be bothered to check your alignment with something other than your eyeball and an extended thumb, this would be clear as day. - While the body of the Empire State building is not perfectly split, the antenna of the Tower and its flashing res light intersects the center nub of the Arch's opening. Have you looked at the Google Earth alignments I posted?

- even if the alignment was perfect, the line of sight would have never allowed a view of the 4 story Astor mansion from GAP. - Agreed. And thirty years later, I don't know if there was eye contact from the top of the Arch with the 17-story Waldorf-Astoria, which replaced the mansion after the Arch was built. Just because you and I can't make visual contact, doesn't mean that objects cannot be aligned by surveyor's who know what they are doing. The other alignment in the Concert Grove is more interesting. How and why did Vaux line up the (1) skylight in the Oriental Pavillion (1874) with what looks like the (2)original simple Plaza Fountain (now a planter) and (3) the Lincoln Statue (moved there following Decoration Day in 1895) with the Bay 17 Street Gravesend Bay pier where he was found drowned in Novemeber 1895, months after the Lincoln statue move? Check Google Earth again.

- even if the mansion was visible from GAP, you're completely out of touch with human nature - monuments are built to honor and celebrate. How many monuments can you name that were built to vilify? - The Plaza as built to honor the Union victory and to provide a buffer between the park and the city. And the planners took the opportunity to go on record with a message to Lincoln's enemies. During the Draft riots, Olmsted called for martial law and the hanging of some of the Astor circle instigators (who were also some of his Central Park foes).

Your overwhelming desire to become known as the sleuth that cracked the code has made you blind to the fact that there is no code. The fact that you ignore, instead of disprove, the alignment info that I've pointed out shows that you have no interest in the truth. - I am not a sleuth or a historian. I am a local artist who saw this alignment. got curious, and don't agree with those who have credentials who said this was a simple coincidence, that there was no "Why" behind this juxtaposition. Seeing that Building Six of Atlantic Yards will eclipse the view and the potential underlying reason behind it, I think I should make some noise until the view disappears. And if I get the credit for pushing this until its accepted, fine. I consider this view a great public artwork with social ramifications that is a continuing work-in-progress.

The move of the statue back to the Plaza should be thought out a bit more, as it was the basis for today's alignment.

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

- Okay.
So, what? You think that the fact that it faces due north is of mere coincidence and the fact that it pointed in the vicinity of someones house is of monumental (ha ha) importance? Or are you going to soon suggest that the location of the plaza was selected so that a northern orientation would point a finger at rivals? Nah - that would be CRAZY.

- While the body of the Empire State building is not perfectly split, the antenna of the Tower and its flashing res light intersects the center nub of the Arch's opening. Have you looked at the Google Earth alignments I posted?
Stand in the farmers market area of GAP, shuffle side-to-side until you have your alignment, now look at the arch - you'll notice that you're well to the right of line bisecting the arch. Thousands of years ago, Egyptians could better align their monuments. As far as Google earth, no, I haven't seen your links, but I would caution even the most fuzzy-headed individuals from using a two-dimensional approximation of a three dimensional shape as evidence.

Just because you and I can't make visual contact, doesn't mean that objects cannot be aligned by surveyor's who know what they are doing.
Uh, how effective is the damnation if there's no visual contact?

The Plaza as built to honor the Union victory and to provide a buffer between the park and the city. And the planners took the opportunity to go on record with a message to Lincoln's enemies. During the Draft riots, Olmsted called for martial law and the hanging of some of the Astor circle instigators (who were also some of his Central Park foes).
You didn't answer my question. Instead, you provided more non-relevant trivia as if it were relevant.

I am not a sleuth or a historian. I am a local artist who saw this alignment. got curious, and don't agree with those who have credentials
No, why would you agree with experts?

And if I get the credit for pushing this until its accepted, fine.
I'll send some photographers over for the press photo - be sure to wear your tinfoil hat.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,386

WhyFi said:
Is that show still around? It got all kinds of love early on, but I haven't heard anything in a while. Are all of the original members around or did some get big heads and try a solo career?

I saw one of the guys on Chopped. Cute as ever

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

whynot_31 said:
I saw one of the guys on Chopped. Cute as ever

Maybe we should start a Lincoln Statue Photoshop Makeover contest, in the spirit of Decoration Day. He could use some sprucing up.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,386

That is an excellent idea. Based on Karl's demonstrated talent on this thread, I say we approach him. http://brooklynian.com/forum/prospect-heights/nyet-for-nets

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
richard
getting it
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 78

http://image83.webshots.com/83/1/37/86/2045137860026286339KZCMUd_fs.jpg

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
WhyFi
I'm Urban - recognize!
Joined: Jul '05
Posts: 5,268

http://tinyurl.com/3hqtgl2

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
richard
getting it
Joined: Apr '09
Posts: 78

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2045137860026286339KZCMUd

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

# Posted 2 yrs ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 16,386

WhyFi said:
http://tinyurl.com/3hqtgl2

While tin foil hats allow the patient to escape the common side effects of psychotropics (such as weight gain, loss of energy, and risk of tardive dyskinesia), their effect on symptoms of severe mental illness remains inconclusive.

A combination of depakote and lithium is often the only reliable remedy.

For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.

# Posted 2 yrs ago