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A two-way bike lane, separated from traffic, is coming to Prospect Park West this Spring. transalt.org I'm sorry bike haters but this is great news. We need something similar along 3rd avenue in the lower slope and a safe east/west road to connect the two. Ninth street is a start but the bike lanes need to be protected from car traffic to be safe. -blue
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Hear hear. or is it here here? I can never remember.
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Given the width of the sidewalk on the eastern side of the street, why not take some of the sidewalk and turn that into the protected lane? This way cars still have three lanes of traffic? Seems like that would make more sense, and would make all happy? Protected access to the park seems like a good thing, but not at the expense of truck traffic. Also, does this mean there will be an end to the call to make the park loop car free 24/7?
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F yeah to the bike lanes!!!! They should turn that whole thing into the bike lane. While we're at it, I think the department of sanitation should require all garbage to be removed from sidewalks and placed in the streets. Why should we have to walk about bags of garbage just because fat cars need so much damn space? Let them drive around the garbage bags. And how can anyone actually recommend reducing pedestrian space to give more space to cars? That's insane.
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I am all for bike lanes that are removed from car traffic. Being (I imagine) the only driver in this city who observes the bike lanes that are not separated from car traffic, I am getting sick of other drivers trying to mow me down or scream at me all because I don't pull into a bike lane to make a turn.Happily propagating the species since 2009
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Julius Orange » And how can anyone actually recommend reducing pedestrian space to give more space to cars? That's insane.
You may be anti-car, but the reality is that 99% of the goods consumed in Brooklyn are trucked in. We have little to no manufacturing and no direct rail access east of the Hudson. All that means that while reducing cars isn't a bad thing, reducing truck access is. Since PPW is a main thoroughfare for larger vehicles including buses and trucks, it makes sense to figure out how to accommodate everyone. Transportation Alternatives advocates the best solution is protected bike lanes above street grade. The sidewalk on the east (park) side of the street is wide enough for people to walk 5 or 6 abreast. I don't see why its so insane to reduce that to the same width as the sidewalk on the west side, build a protected, above grade bike lane and then still have space for parking, trucks and buses. -
homeowner » [quote="Julius Orange"] And how can anyone actually recommend reducing pedestrian space to give more space to cars? That's insane.
You may be anti-car, but the reality is that 99% of the goods consumed in Brooklyn are trucked in. We have little to no manufacturing and no direct rail access east of the Hudson. All that means that while reducing cars isn't a bad thing, reducing truck access is. Since PPW is a main thoroughfare for larger vehicles including buses and trucks, it makes sense to figure out how to accommodate everyone. Transportation Alternatives advocates the best solution is protected bike lanes above street grade. The sidewalk on the east (park) side of the street is wide enough for people to walk 5 or 6 abreast. I don't see why its so insane to reduce that to the same width as the sidewalk on the west side, build a protected, above grade bike lane and then still have space for parking, trucks and buses.[/quote] Your argument might make some sense if PPW were used for truck acces. But PPW is neither a local nor a through truck route. Eliminating one lane of traffic on PPW will not reduce truck access one iota. Second, private cars take up too much space. Lose one travel lane and put in the protected, two-way bike lane.
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homeowner » The sidewalk on the east (park) side of the street is wide enough for people to walk 5 or 6 abreast. I don't see why its so insane to reduce that to the same width as the sidewalk on the west side, build a protected, above grade bike lane and then still have space for parking, trucks and buses.
Because the East Side of Prospect Park West is a REALLY NICE PLACE to walk 5 or 6 abreast. It is a Park , a place to enjoy walking.Don't get me started -
ringrunner » [quote="homeowner"] The sidewalk on the east (park) side of the street is wide enough for people to walk 5 or 6 abreast. I don't see why its so insane to reduce that to the same width as the sidewalk on the west side, build a protected, above grade bike lane and then still have space for parking, trucks and buses.
Because the East Side of Prospect Park West is a REALLY NICE PLACE to walk 5 or 6 abreast. It is a Park , a place to enjoy walking.[/quote] Is it unreasonable to want a park to also be a nice pace to enjoy riding a bicycle? -
joncane » [quote="ringrunner"][quote="homeowner"] The sidewalk on the east (park) side of the street is wide enough for people to walk 5 or 6 abreast. I don't see why its so insane to reduce that to the same width as the sidewalk on the west side, build a protected, above grade bike lane and then still have space for parking, trucks and buses.
Because the East Side of Prospect Park West is a REALLY NICE PLACE to walk 5 or 6 abreast. It is a Park , a place to enjoy walking.[/quote] Is it unreasonable to want a park to also be a nice pace to enjoy riding a bicycle?[/quote] Not at all, but that should come out of other vehicular space, not pedestrian space. PPW currently has 5 lanes allocated for cars (2 for parked cars and 3 for traffic). It is more reasonable that one of those 5 lanes be repurposed for bicycle traffic than for a bike lane to be created by taking away pedestrian space along the edge of the park. -
Carnivore » [quote="joncane"][quote="ringrunner"][quote="homeowner"] The sidewalk on the east (park) side of the street is wide enough for people to walk 5 or 6 abreast. I don't see why its so insane to reduce that to the same width as the sidewalk on the west side, build a protected, above grade bike lane and then still have space for parking, trucks and buses.
Because the East Side of Prospect Park West is a REALLY NICE PLACE to walk 5 or 6 abreast. It is a Park , a place to enjoy walking.[/quote] Is it unreasonable to want a park to also be a nice pace to enjoy riding a bicycle?[/quote] Not at all, but that should come out of other vehicular space, not pedestrian space. PPW currently has 5 lanes allocated for cars (2 for parked cars and 3 for traffic). It is more reasonable that one of those 5 lanes be repurposed for bicycle traffic than for a bike lane to be created by taking away pedestrian space along the edge of the park.[/quote] fair enough -
Agreed. The walkway on the park side is a promenade that circles the entire park. PPW is like a raceway, taking a way a lane would be a good thing. I liked the idea of making it a two-way street also.
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The park side parking lane seems prone to vandalism, so I would guess it's not the most desired parking. I can't remember how many times I've walked down that sidewalk late at night or early in the morning and seen sections of cars with broken windows. I know that happens all over, but it seems like that must be a "safer" place for doing some window smashin' since it's a little farther from homes and businesses than most street parking.
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Subject: bike lanes
We are not all bike haters and some of us would not be if the bicyclists obeyed the rules of the road. If they stopped at the lights and didnt run them just because there is no traffic coming. If they stayed in their lanes and didnt take up the entire road or if they didnt swerve into the car lane as a car is about to pass. If bicyclists got tickets for how they conduct themselves on the city streets as the car drivers have to do, the City would not have a deficit from all the fines they wold be able to collect. IF the bike people want more lanes then they should be licensed and be accountable for their actions -
Subject: Re: bike lanes
jmd » We are not all bike haters and some of us would not be if the bicyclists obeyed the rules of the road. If they stopped at the lights and didnt run them just because there is no traffic coming. If they stayed in their lanes and didnt take up the entire road or if they didnt swerve into the car lane as a car is about to pass. If bicyclists got tickets for how they conduct themselves on the city streets as the car drivers have to do, the City would not have a deficit from all the fines they wold be able to collect. IF the bike people want more lanes then they should be licensed and be accountable for their actions
Take it to the "whining about cyclists" thread, you! -
Subject: Re: bike lanes
jmd » We are not all bike haters and some of us would not be if the bicyclists obeyed the rules of the road. If they stopped at the lights and didnt run them just because there is no traffic coming. If they stayed in their lanes and didnt take up the entire road or if they didnt swerve into the car lane as a car is about to pass. If bicyclists got tickets for how they conduct themselves on the city streets as the car drivers have to do, the City would not have a deficit from all the fines they wold be able to collect. IF the bike people want more lanes then they should be licensed and be accountable for their actions
i can only assume that you are the type of pedestrian that never crosses the street unless the light says walk? so, according to you, the city would no longer have a budget defecit if we just started ticketing bikers!!?? amazing!! i really hope you have called the economist magazine as well as all local congressman and other political powers to enlighten them as to your foolproof way to SAVE NYC's BUDGET with one action! you sound like an angry motorist who is tired of seeing bikers pass you on the road. -
Subject: Re: bike lanes
flynn » [quote="jmd"]We are not all bike haters and some of us would not be if the bicyclists obeyed the rules of the road. If they stopped at the lights and didnt run them just because there is no traffic coming. If they stayed in their lanes and didnt take up the entire road or if they didnt swerve into the car lane as a car is about to pass. If bicyclists got tickets for how they conduct themselves on the city streets as the car drivers have to do, the City would not have a deficit from all the fines they wold be able to collect. IF the bike people want more lanes then they should be licensed and be accountable for their actions
i can only assume that you are the type of pedestrian that never crosses the street unless the light says walk? so, according to you, the city would no longer have a budget defecit if we just started ticketing bikers!!?? amazing!! i really hope you have called the economist magazine as well as all local congressman and other political powers to enlighten them as to your foolproof way to SAVE NYC's BUDGET with one action! you sound like an angry motorist who is tired of seeing bikers pass you on the road.[/quote] Seriously, this discussion belongs in the thread I linked to above. Let's not rehash it here, and instead keep on the topic of the new bike lane on PPW. -
That's the problem. PPW is NOT a major thoroughfare. I'm not anti-car. I'm anti-car drivers acting like my neighborhood streets are major thoroughfares. Two lanes does not a highway make. Your attitude needs to change.
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Julius Orange » That's the problem. PPW is NOT a major thoroughfare. I'm not anti-car. I'm anti-car drivers acting like my neighborhood streets are major thoroughfares. Two lanes does not a highway make. Your attitude needs to change.
but it is designed like one. straight, wide lanes, lights in sync, it's designed for drivers to speed. that should change. -
Well it is changing. Or will, according to the link at the top.
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Hi, I'm new to the board. Born and raised in brooklyn. I live by the park, ride a bike, and drive a car. It seems to me that there is already a huge bike lane there... it's called the park. I seem to recall that was one of the major reasons for restricting vehicular traffic on the drive to begin with. and is still a rallying cry for eliminating cars in the park altogether. While it may seem like a good idea.. if you keep restricting road space by the park for cars, you'll end up pushing the traffic west (via side streets) on to the other avenues - where there are no bike lanes. this is one reason there's been an increase in traffic on PPW since closing the park drive. just my 2 cents. not looking to pick a fight.
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detour » Hi, I'm new to the board. Born and raised in brooklyn. I live by the park, ride a bike, and drive a car. It seems to me that there is already a huge bike lane there... it's called the park. I seem to recall that was one of the major reasons for restricting vehicular traffic on the drive to begin with. and is still a rallying cry for eliminating cars in the park altogether. While it may seem like a good idea.. if you keep restricting road space by the park for cars, you'll end up pushing the traffic west (via side streets) on to the other avenues - where there are no bike lanes. this is one reason there's been an increase in traffic on PPW since closing the park drive. just my 2 cents. not looking to pick a fight.
1. The park drive is one way. See various other brooklynian threads on this. It can't be used for a quick trip unless you either want to piss everyone off by riding the wrong way or turn a .5 mile trip into a 3 mile one. 2. Cars, in a park? It just does not make sense on it's face. 3. your ideas on traffic fail the basic tenets of traffic engineering. Traffic does not get "push[ed]" anywhere and there has not been an increase in traffic on PPW. -
Subject: Re: bike lanes
jmd » If bicyclists got tickets for how they conduct themselves on the city streets as the car drivers have to do, the City would not have a deficit from all the fines they wold be able to collect. IF the bike people want more lanes then they should be licensed and be accountable for their actions
How about holding motorists accountable for their actions? How about maybe writing a ticket or two for the INSANE amount of u-turning and red light running we see all day, every day? How about giving motorists something a little harsher than a wink and a slap on the wrist when they kill pedestrians and cyclists? -
detour » Hi, I'm new to the board. Born and raised in brooklyn. I live by the park, ride a bike, and drive a car. It seems to me that there is already a huge bike lane there... it's called the park. I seem to recall that was one of the major reasons for restricting vehicular traffic on the drive to begin with. and is still a rallying cry for eliminating cars in the park altogether. While it may seem like a good idea.. if you keep restricting road space by the park for cars, you'll end up pushing the traffic west (via side streets) on to the other avenues - where there are no bike lanes. this is one reason there's been an increase in traffic on PPW since closing the park drive. just my 2 cents. not looking to pick a fight.
The city just finished installing separated bike lanes in the Times Square area which is obviously really congested and it hasn't really made much of a difference to squeeze out the cabs etc at least in my opinion. Then again I don't drive at all and I think NYCers need to get out and walk a heck of a lot more, way too many lazy people in this city! -
Subject: Re: bike lanes
jmd » If bicyclists got tickets for how they conduct themselves on the city streets as the car drivers have to do, the City would not have a deficit from all the fines they wold be able to collect. IF the bike people want more lanes then they should be licensed and be accountable for their actions
If the city wanted to reduce it's deficit it could make car drivers accountable for their actions. They are already licensed. Giving out speeding tickets would be like shooting fish in a barrel. But it would make the mayor less popular. The video is old and is about making 8th Ave and PPW two way, but they do demonstrate how fast cars are going.... So many cars are speeding.Don't get me started -
the bike path should go around the entire park why pick only PPW? oh, yeah...that's why
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or maybe not http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/01/25/marty-markowitz-derails-prospect-park-west-bike-lane-for-how-long/ thank you sssshole marty
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I've given this tons of thought... pretty much everyday since this thread was born on the first day of October. So, if you're on a bike riding down PPW in its current state sans bikes lanes and you just need a little more space.... well, why don't you just pedal that two wheeled, nut crunching marvel over to the PARK... it's right there bro. They have bike lanes that end on both sides of PPW... shit, they even have a loop, you can ride around the whole damn park. Why in the freaking world would you build a bike lane on a city street NEXT TO A PARK. If you are planning to fuck everything up, go fuck up 6th Ave... those sidewalks suck anyway. The reason this isn't happening isn't because it's a stupid waste of money. It's because the people that live on PPW, the nursing hope, the school, whoever it was, got together talked marty out of it.
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Drunken Revival » I've given this tons of thought... pretty much everyday since this thread was born on the first day of October.
The bike lanes on PPW would be 2 ways, the park loop runs only counter-clockwise and adults aren't permitted to ride on the foot paths. I've ridden along PPW and it is frightening how close car whiz by. It's not safe riding either on the park side or the street side of PPW. A sheltered lane make a lot of sense and is inexpensive to build. -
It would be cheaper to turn the parks' car lanes into one way (or ban them altogether.... I honestly cannot believe that someone can't make that happen) then it would be to build a bike lane on PPW.. You could then have two lanes for bikes in the park ... or just allow adults to ride on foot paths...or just stop enforcing that law...(I've ridden by 100s of cops and park cops on those paths)..
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Drunken Revival » It would be cheaper to turn the parks' car lanes into one way (or ban them altogether.... I honestly cannot believe that someone can't make that happen) then it would be to build a bike lane on PPW..
LOL guess who doesn't want to ban cars from the park 24/7.... marty markowitz -
Well, the 2 way bike lane on PPW may not be dead after all. This from Streetsblog: Community meeting this Monday (4/12/10) at the Garfield Temple. http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/04/09/monday-see-whats-up-with-the-prospect-park-west-re-design/ and then there's this http://blogs.wnyc.org/news/2010/04/12/the-latest-skirmish-in-the-bike-lane-battles/ gotta love it when Marty suggests bike riders use the sidewalks along Flatbush. "But officer, Marty said I could.."
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