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Windsor Liquors, the newly named liquor store on 16th St and Prospect Park West, has been selling liquor to drunks who stumble into their establishment on a daily basis - with a total indifference to the standards of the community. The photo below shows two of their best customers unconcious outside Dub Pies. I spoke with one of the owners and asked if he would discontinue the practice of selling alcohol to anyone who was drunk, as it is not acceptable that families should be subjected to drunks napping on 16th ST a few feet from their establishment. The response was that he would try to shut them down, but there are two schools of thought on this subject: 1-He would attempt to discontinue this practice. 2- It is in the community's best interest to continue selling to these unfortunates, as it creates enough revenue to continue serving the community's needs. Commerce over Community? I then mentioned there was another school of thought and it was called the State Liquor Authority, after a short pause, the response was: if more people in the community addressed the problem he would discontinue the illegal practice of selling to drunks that stumble into his establishment. What a guy! If you live in Windsor Terrace make sure you let them know this is not acceptable, unless you enjoy having yourself and family subjected to a Bowery-like environment.
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Thanks for posting this.. including the picture. I think your aproaching the owner of this store was a good step but obviously you got no feeling that there would be any movement in fixing the situation. So, on to the next step and this is a good step. Make people aware of what the story really is. As sympathetic as I may be to peoples' circumstances I don't want to live in a neighborhood where drunks are sleeping or comatose infront of liquor stores or people on methadone who are nodding in front of the post office on 9th street (sometimes because they sold their methadone at street value and bought heroine instead) or exposed to homeless people near the Armory location who because of their mental illnesses are scarey, lunatic presences on the street. I don't want to hear arguements between the unwed mothers and their "boyfriends" who they are suposedly hiding from in the facilty on 9th street when these young women invite the guys over to see their kids. I applaud you for trying to expose this situation. I am reminded of an old Phil Ochs song, Love Me I am Liberal ( I am sure you can hear it if you check out U Tube) but at my stage of life I am willing to NOT be called a Liberal when a circumstance impacts my quality of life.
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veets » ] I am reminded of an old Phil Ochs song, Love Me I am Liberal ( I am sure you can hear it if you check out U Tube) but at my stage of life I am willing to NOT be called a Liberal when a circumstance impacts my quality of life.
City is more suburban than it thinks it is: no one wants it in their own backyard."...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa -
I've contacted the Windsor Terrace Alliance Group and am dropping the article off at Community Board 7 and will ask Randy Peers the Chairman to try to coordinate with the Windsor Terrace Alliance Group and have this problem resolved. The two in the photo are Sweat who is scraped off the street and taken to the Methodist at least once a week and C.J. who has turned to alcohol due to the drought of Heroin in Windsor Terrace. Those weekly pick ups by the Methodist cost the taxpayers more then the meager profit made on a cheap whisky being sold to these unfortunate people If there are others who are appalled by the attitude of the Liquor store and are in the neighborhood stop in and voice your opinion
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Hamilton, what is your preoccupation with the park circle bums? It seems like every other post from you is some sort of tizzy about them. Apparently we live very close to each other, yet the bums (whose numbers have pretty much dwindled down to nothing compared with the hordes of decades past) attract none of my attention. I see them, but they're not doing anything different from what they've been doing since day one, and not bothering anyone at that. They pretty much never ask for money (unless they know you). So what is it that offends you, the fact that they're drunk, or the fact that they're sleeping on the street? Don't tell me that if there was no alcohol involved in the photo above, you wouldn't be complaining about it just the same. I don't buy that for a second.
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Subject: I luvs the old days
We all live by our own standards... and if you are content to have drunks and drug addicts sleeping and urinating on the street in front of families passing by, PM me your address and I'll have them camp outside your residence. Apparently, your condoning this lifestyle makes me think you long for the days when the neighborhood was overrun with junkies and drunks and which may have given you a sense of superiority, or perhaps you may have been one of them... If you are not happy with my postings, just ignore them - as you do with the unacceptable behavior of a few, as you stated. -
I would have a problem if they were passed out on my street, oh wait! I have one of those bums on my block too
murrrrr!(\__/)
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I love Phil Ochs. And Love Me I'm a Liberal is a great (funny) song about hypocricy. Another of his songs that might be appropriate: There But for Fortune.
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That was so great seeing Phil Ochs sing.. anything! Might be off topic but if you don't know who Phil Ochs was (and is forever in many peoples' hearts) check it out.
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I dealt with one of those guys a few weeks ago. His beard was covered in vomit and mouth bloodied. He also had his pants 1/2 way down, while he sat on the bench in front of the pie place. A simple call to EMS and he was gone. However many people from the Community came foward in his defense. I guess he's become a staple in the neighborhood. If you see him there call the Police, blaming the Liquor store is probably not going to be effective.
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King without a crown » I dealt with one of those guys a few weeks ago. His beard was covered in vomit and mouth bloodied. He also had his pants 1/2 way down, while he sat on the bench in front of the pie place. A simple call to EMS and he was gone. However many people from the Community came foward in his defense. I guess he's become a staple in the neighborhood. If you see him there call the Police, blaming the Liquor store is probably not going to be effective.
*************************** His name is Joey and has been on the street for close to forty years, he is a heroin addict and has just taken to drink because the heroin market in the neighborhood has dried up. He is picked up by EMS at least twice a week, they clean him up and he is back the next day. He has his bottle picked up by other street people who are not quite as disheveled as he is.. The police don't bother him as he is classified as mentally ill and don't want him in their patrol cars for obvious reasons.. [ he is not in the photo which was posted] I want to thank you for you advice ,but I do blame the Liquor store for serving drunks that wind up unconscious less then 15 feet from their establishment, that to me shows a total indifference to the community and a state of desperation that they will sell liquor to any drunks staggering into their shop. As stated on an earlier post I'm in contact with some community groups and will try to have enough pressure put on the owners to bring this practice to a screeching halt -
Does Farrell's serve these guys? I sometimes see them loitering in their doorway. "Sweat" seems polite and lucid most of the time. Bless his heart, even when he's blotto he's cheerful. It's a shame he can't keep it together.
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Yosimite Samantha » Does Farrell's serve these guys? I sometimes see them loitering in their doorway. "Sweat" seems polite and lucid most of the time. Bless his heart, even when he's blotto he's cheerful. It's a shame he can't keep it together.
**************************** They are not allowed in Farrell's ,the ones you see hanging around there are trying to grub money from people they know in the bar. At times Sweat gets out of control and on numerous occasions has been punched out for his aggressive behavior' The sad part he is supposed to be suffering from pancreatic cancer. -
the whole thing is sad. that said, i live down in this nabe and i'm pretty tired of it. why is it wrong to say that i don't want addicts and junkies and drunks and homeless menaces (and deranged women from the shelter, my huge pet-peeve) "in my backyard". why would i want them in backyard? who would? the problem is they keep getting picked up and placed right back here, not unlike the shelter women. (i don't know anything about 9th street, but i'm getting the feeling the same thing is going on there.) if this effort is being made to remove, albeit temporarily by the police when they're called, these people, why not put in the effort to find them a place to live other than the circle? i'm not going to apologize for not wanting this in my backyard, front stoop, or street.what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.
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brooklynpotter » the whole thing is sad. that said, i live down in this nabe and i'm pretty tired of it. why is it wrong to say that i don't want addicts and junkies and drunks and homeless menaces (and deranged women from the shelter, my huge pet-peeve) "in my backyard". why would i want them in backyard? who would? the problem is they keep getting picked up and placed right back here, not unlike the shelter women. (i don't know anything about 9th street, but i'm getting the feeling the same thing is going on there.) if this effort is being made to remove, albeit temporarily by the police when they're called, these people, why not put in the effort to find them a place to live other than the circle? i'm not going to apologize for not wanting this in my backyard, front stoop, or street.
Hmmm, just re-read my post and didn't see the part where I said anyone was wrong to not want bums on their backyard. Coming from where I grew up in the suburbs, I notice that, well, honestly it's the people with let's just say, the greater advantages in life that tend to howl the loudest about quality of life issues. I've lived in both poor suburban and high brow suburban and the attitudes are different. Halfway houses are typical and expected in low income areas- not many people complain. But you won't ever find them in the richer areas, God forbid. I remember back in high school (high brow), there was a complete blow-up over a potential mentally challenged assisted living home. People were freaking out about these poor defenseless people who just wanted to assimilate and live normal lives. It was very sad to hear people basically say, "not in my backyard." I'm not trying to make accusations, per se, it's just something that I thought of when I read OP."...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa -
Whatchuwant » Hmmm, just re-read my post and didn't see the part where I said anyone was wrong to not want bums on their backyard. Coming from where I grew up in the suburbs, I notice that, well, honestly it's the people with let's just say, the greater advantages in life that tend to howl the loudest about quality of life issues. I've lived in both poor suburban and high brow suburban and the attitudes are different. Halfway houses are typical and expected in low income areas- not many people complain. But you won't ever find them in the richer areas, God forbid. I remember back in high school (high brow), there was a complete blow-up over a potential mentally challenged assisted living home. People were freaking out about these poor defenseless people who just wanted to assimilate and live normal lives. It was very sad to hear people basically say, "not in my backyard." I'm not trying to make accusations, per se, it's just something that I thought of when I read OP.
never said that anyone here, in this thread, made any NIMBY comments. you brought up the term/circumstance, i took off with it because these type of threads on this board tend to go in that direction. i assumed this would go the same way, so i posted an opinion. as for the men in the circle, i've always said--and please, reread my posts--that there's a correlation with them, the SRO buildings on 15th, and the women at the armory and their boyfriends. i've also said the police do little about it, which helps nobody. i think that you are right in your observations about the "where people live" attitude, in regard to what they expect in their neighborhoods. i'm reminded of the tv theme song from "the jeffersons". (it's early, i'm still working on getting caffeine.) i can only speak for myself when i say that i didn't always own an apartment, that i worked my way to a better financial position in life, and left the cruddy apartment and all its accoutrements behind. i don't want to live in an area where i have to buy an extra gate to my basement because homeless men will use it as a bathroom for, as my brother would say, "serious business". i don't feel i should have to accept that anywhere; and i'm not embarrassed to further that feeling by saying NIMBY.what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r. -
I think this thread was picked up by gawker or gowanus lounge.... i read it yesterday, I'll try and find the link.(\__/)
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i saw it on gowanus lounge, i thinkwhat would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.
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Whatchuwant » Hmmm, just re-read my post and didn't see the part where I said anyone was wrong to not want bums on their backyard. Coming from where I grew up in the suburbs, I notice that, well, honestly it's the people with let's just say, the greater advantages in life that tend to howl the loudest about quality of life issues. I've lived in both poor suburban and high brow suburban and the attitudes are different. Halfway houses are typical and expected in low income areas- not many people complain. But you won't ever find them in the richer areas, God forbid. I remember back in high school (high brow), there was a complete blow-up over a potential mentally challenged assisted living home. People were freaking out about these poor defenseless people who just wanted to assimilate and live normal lives. It was very sad to hear people basically say, "not in my backyard."
Exactly. I would love to know what these 'concerned residents' would have thought ten or twenty years ago when there weren't two, but more like twenty+ 'revelers' on the park circle on any given warm afternoon. It was like that for decades. There used to be a freaking 'bum colony' around the circle/15st entrance, as probably only Hamilton remembers. I guess the main difference was that then, there wasn't really much of a gap between the 'bums' and the residents, mainly because many of the bums were just kids from the neighborhood who couldn't keep their partying under control and ended up on the street. Everyone in the neighborhood knew the bums, and they knew everyone. No one got 'offended' by them being there, they were just part of the landscape. They didn't rob, steal, or fight with anyone but each other really. As a matter of fact, it was usually the neighborhood kids who messed with them, and not vice versa. Some of them, like Sweat when he wasn't is as bad shape as he is now, were actually a fun, pleasant presence to have around - at least a lot more so than a bunch of snotty, complaining, block-association, quasi-suburbanites. -
Have been watching this thread with interest but needed to give some consideration before I commented. I don't necessarily see this as a NIMBY issue. I lived in WT for years before I moved directly across the street from the women's shelter, so I'm not a surburbanite who wants to come to the "cool" city and get rid of people I find objectionable. I'm giving that background so I don't get attacked as some Rotary Club-wannabe (no disrespect to any RC members) who is trying to clean up the neighborhood. I was well aware of the residents on all ends of the socio-economic scale before settling down here in a neighborhood I truly love. I agree with the position of the OP in the sense that the liquor store is not helping these men by facilitating their alcohol purchases. Every bottle they buy is another shovelful of dirt toward digging their own graves. To me, providing them with further means to their own demise is unconscionable. I wouldn't give these men glue to huff, I wouldn't buy sell them liquor; I just couldn't do it. As far as I'm concerned, these men...these human beings... are welcome in the neighborhood; I generally say hello if they are lucid when I walk by them and wish them well. However, even if they are hellbent on destroying their lives and hurtling toward an early and untimely death, I'm not going to help them do it. And I think it is wrong for others to do so, but that is their choice and I'm not going try to change their minds. But I'll walk an extra few blocks to another store for wine or liquor so I'm not supporting them. (And my opinion of these individuals hasn't change in the past five or ten years, and yes, I remember in the mid-90's there was a lot more activity up by the circle.) Just my opinion, slings and arrows welcome, but please, no rocks.
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turtle95 » As far as I'm concerned, these men...these human beings... are welcome in the neighborhood; I generally say hello if they are lucid when I walk by them and wish them well. However, even if they are hellbent on destroying their lives and hurtling toward an early and untimely death, I'm not going to help them do it. And I think it is wrong for others to do so, but that is their choice and I'm not going try to change their minds. But I'll walk an extra few blocks to another store for wine or liquor so I'm not supporting them. Just my opinion, slings and arrows welcome, but please, no rocks.
I'm with you there, Turtle. I have 2 section 8 buildings right on my corner. A couple of the residents hang in the front of the building (not loitering as it's tenants and their visitors ONLY)- they drink their 40's and they play chess/checkers/dice, which is a typical day of entertainment for them and I can't criticize. The one thing I did object was the fact that they pissed in the alley between the buildings, and the STENCH (especially in summer), would choke you as you walked past. I have a "friend" who lives there, who was a regular alley pisser and asked him what floor he lived on. He said 2nd, I gave him a really hard time (in girly fashion) as to how lazy/drunk does a guy have to be to not walk 1 flight up the stairs to pee in his own home, rather than the alley? Thankfully, the building owners put up a fence with a lock so they can't pee there anymore. Another point to make: I do say hello to all these guys (well, some, the ones I see regularly) as I think its so important to make yourself be known to your neighbors. You never know when you may need them, or vice versa. We all keep to ourselves (ie: we don't hang out), but they know me and I know them, and there's an unspoken relationship that's essentially "we watch out for one another." But you know, I don't have them lying on the ground outside my local liquer store. My liquer store would have shit fit if anyone started taking naps in front of their store. There is street decorum on Franklin Ave!"...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa -
Are you guys the same people who keep saying how "Aw, Brooklyn ain't what it used to be. " ?!! You can't mourn for the good ole days on one thread, and then bemoan what was a big part of the good ole days on another dammit. You can't have your yuppie beer bars and "brooklyn characters" at the same time. Or can you?..... Just like I've said many times, THAT is what makes Brooklyn diverse. All of dem bums. Like me.Ask a burning question, get a burning answer.
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last i heard it was still illegal to sell alcohol to the visibly intoxicated. this goes for bars too. bartenders are supposed to cut you off if you start a fight or are falling down drunk. so the owner is actually breaking the law by selling to these guys. the problems that several of you have raised (homeless or semi-homeless alcoholics getting taken to the hospital, winding up back on the same corner the next day) have been considered intractable, but there's an interesting movement afoot that seems to help. homeless ultra-alcoholics are given small apartments and there isn't a requirement that they must stop drinking (like there usually is in homeless shelters etc.). these guys then drink inside and cause fewer public problems, have a better quality of life, and have a LOT less of the emergency room visits that do cost the taxpayers wild amounts of money. there was a big article about it in the Times last year. i think Seattle is experimenting with this model and some other cities too. i'm all for it since it sounds like "Sweat" and the others are lifers and not about to detox no matter what incentives you give them; they're just too addicted. might as well get them off the street.Culture is what we make it Yes it is...Now is the time to invent
----Sleater-Kinney -
The 78th pct. is active in an outreach program and has been finding residences for those who need a place to stay. I spoke with one of the street people on Friday and he said he was given a room at the YMCA in Queens,but decided not to stay as they weren't feeding him. I believe everyone has the right to live as they wish, but not the right to interfere with the lifestyle of others. This thread started out as a posting about a Liquor store selling alcohol to people that were inebriated and turned into an essay on the Golden Age Of Bumdom over the last twenty years , who cares about then? The problem being addressed is happening now. It's humorous that those who resent change for the better, resort to criticizing those who want a community where they can raise their families without stepping over drunks and addicts and sidestepping the droppings they leave on the sidewalk . So those who revel in the past get ready for the change - it's coming
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Look, I work in a liquor store and jane_birkin is right. We are not allowed to sell to someone who is visibly intoxicated. A while ago we had a similar problem with the guys hanging out in front of Old First. They would get drunk and cause trouble and end up getting arrested. One of the guys I work with came up with a solution. He wrote their names down on a piece of cardboard and put it on our corkboard. Every time one of them came in to buy a bottle we put a pushpin under their name. When there were 3 pushpins under their name they were cut off. Sometimes they would try to get around it by buying a pint instead of a half pint. But then we would put 2 pushpins in for a pint. They bitched and moaned but eventually it worked, if they wanted more booze they had to go to another liquor store. This worked no matter who was at the register since we were able to keep track of who bought what. Windsor Liquors is partially responsible and they need to do something about it.Go do something useful.
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Caseopele.. You just brought this thread back around the OP's statements and reason for posting this in the first place. Yes the store selling the booze has a responsibility (legally and otherwise) in this. The solution that your store came up with was a responsible way to deal with the situation and actually worked.
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Hamilton » The 78th pct. is active in an outreach program and has been finding residences for those who need a place to stay. I spoke with one of the street people on Friday and he said he was given a room at the YMCA in Queens,but decided not to stay as they weren't feeding him. I believe everyone has the right to live as they wish, but not the right to interfere with the lifestyle of others. This thread started out as a posting about a Liquor store selling alcohol to people that were inebriated and turned into an essay on the Golden Age Of Bumdom over the last twenty years , who cares about then? The problem being addressed is happing now. It's humorous that those who resent change for the better, resort to criticizing those who want a community where they can raise their families without stepping over drunks and addicts and sidestepping the droppings they leave on the sidewalk . So those who revel in the past get ready for the change - it's coming
Wait, so let me get this straight - our neighborhood is changing?? I simply refuse to believe it.
All sarcasm aside, I don't think the absence of literally 2-3 bums is going to make much of a difference in most people's quality of life.
How much more can the neighborhood possibly change than it already has? I thought we were already a decidedly 'post-gentrification' area, unless someone misled me as to what a real gentrified area looks like.
As for the 'raising families' sob story, you're not going to get much sympathy from me. I grew up in the 'old' Park Slope and turned out just fine, as apparently you managed to too. Contrast that with the 'dream kids' who are just reaching teendom in current Park Slope, you wanna talk about people zonked out on pills and whatever else they can get their hands on!! Girls pissing in the street, etc. If you don't believe me, take a look around 7th Avenue and 1st Street on any Friday or Saturday night and tell me how appealing that looks to you.
Sorry, but I'd rather have my kids grow up around an isolated group of skid row type individuals so I can point to them and say, "that's where you'll end up if you don't keep yourself together," as opposed to a neighborhood that holds itself up as 'the ideal urban family environment,' where the kids are in schools like Packer and Montessori by day, and are having orgies and drug binges by night. Call me crazy, but I like my version of reality much better than theirs. -
Obamanut » [quote="Hamilton"]The 78th pct. is active in an outreach program and has been finding residences for those who need a place to stay. I spoke with one of the street people on Friday and he said he was given a room at the YMCA in Queens,but decided not to stay as they weren't feeding him. I believe everyone has the right to live as they wish, but not the right to interfere with the lifestyle of others. This thread started out as a posting about a Liquor store selling alcohol to people that were inebriated and turned into an essay on the Golden Age Of Bumdom over the last twenty years , who cares about then? The problem being addressed is happing now. It's humorous that those who resent change for the better, resort to criticizing those who want a community where they can raise their families without stepping over drunks and addicts and sidestepping the droppings they leave on the sidewalk . So those who revel in the past get ready for the change - it's coming
Wait, so let me get this straight - our neighborhood is changing?? I simply refuse to believe it.
All sarcasm aside, I don't think the absence of literally 2-3 bums is going to make much of a difference in most people's quality of life.
How much more can the neighborhood possibly change than it already has? I thought we were already a decidedly 'post-gentrification' area, unless someone misled me as to what a real gentrified area looks like.
As for the 'raising families' sob story, you're not going to get much sympathy from me. I grew up in the 'old' Park Slope and turned out just fine, as apparently you managed to too. Contrast that with the 'dream kids' who are just reaching teendom in current Park Slope, you wanna talk about people zonked out on pills and whatever else they can get their hands on!! Girls pissing in the street, etc. If you don't believe me, take a look around 7th Avenue and 1st Street on any Friday or Saturday night and tell me how appealing that looks to you.
Sorry, but I'd rather have my kids grow up around an isolated group of skid row type individuals so I can point to them and say, "that's where you'll end up if you don't keep yourself together," as opposed to a neighborhood that holds itself up as 'the ideal urban family environment,' where the kids are in schools like Packer and Montessori by day, and are having orgies and drug binges by night. Call me crazy, but I like my version of reality much better than theirs.[/quote]
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Actually I grew up in the waterfront area in Sunset Park not Park Slope.
This thread is about a Liquor store selling alcohol to people that are drunk when they enter their establishment,which has led to behavior that is totally unacceptable in the community.
Look,you're entitled to your opinions on how a neighborhood should respond to unsavory behavior and I'm entitled to mine.
As I already stated I'm not happy about it and I'm doing something about. -
Thank you for enlightening me as to what this thread is about. Please excuse my loss of self-control. I will make a point to respond to any of your future threads with only a concise statement of direct agreement with your posting. Again, thanks for setting me straight. Regards, Obamanut
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http://www.reason.com/news/show/119487.html For your perusal, an enlightened looks at "Bums" by Peter Bagge.Ask a burning question, get a burning answer.
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Obamanut » Thank you for enlightening me as to what this thread is about. Please excuse my loss of self-control. I will make a point to respond to any of your future threads with only a concise statement of direct agreement with your posting. Again, thanks for setting me straight. Regards, Obamanut
You're welcome...that's what friends are for. -
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
Hamilton » At times Sweat gets out of control and on numerous occasions has been punched out for his aggressive behavior
This guy should start hanging out in the Slope. Most of us would just toss (at least) a buck at him and then scuttle off in terror. -
Drano » [quote="Hamilton"]At times Sweat gets out of control and on numerous occasions has been punched out for his aggressive behavior
This guy should start hanging out in the Slope. Most of us would just toss (at least) a buck at him and then scuttle off in terror.[/quote] **************************** Thats good to know ,what street corner would you recommend? -
Hamilton » Thats good to know ,what street corner would you recommend?
Anywhere on 7th between Flatbush and 2nd Street. After 2nd you're going to get pummelled by roving high school students trying to be badass or mean-for-the-Slope types coming out of Ye Olde Carriage House that would be happy to serve you up a knuckle sandwich. Plus the foot traffic before 2nd is a lot better for harrasment/donation solicitation what with the Connecticut Muffin right there. Hope that helps. -
Drano » [quote="Hamilton"]Thats good to know ,what street corner would you recommend?
Anywhere on 7th between Flatbush and 2nd Street. After 2nd you're going to get pummelled by roving high school students trying to be badass or mean-for-the-Slope types coming out of Ye Olde Carriage House that would be happy to serve you up a knuckle sandwich. Plus the foot traffic before 2nd is a lot better for harrasment/donation solicitation what with the Connecticut Muffin right there. Hope that helps.[/quote] ************************** Thanks, I'll drop him off today. -
Have you tried Bill DeBlasio’s office? I know he is heavily involved in ridding Brooklyn schools of styrofoam but should be able to do something about this situation. You can tell his office they're drinking their wine out of styrofoam cups.
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eggcream » Have you tried Bill DeBlasio’s office? I know he is heavily involved in ridding Brooklyn schools of styrofoam but should be able to do something about this situation. You can tell his office they're drinking their wine out of styrofoam cups.
**************************** They are totally green, they guzzle directly from the bottle, which is wrapped in a brown paper bag and will only sleep on recycled cardboard.. -
If you have a complaint about the Liquor store selling to visibly intoxicated people. You can call the NYS Liquor Authority and lodge a formal complaint. They have investigators that will come out and can issue them violations. The last thing a Liquor store wants to do is lose their license.
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King without a crown » If you have a complaint about the Liquor store selling to visibly intoxicated people. You can call the NYS Liquor Authority and lodge a formal complaint. They have investigators that will come out and can issue them violations. The last thing a Liquor store wants to do is lose their license.
**************************** Thank you, I'll contact them as soon as I receive an update from the Windsor Terrace Alliance and Community Board 7. -
Oh my, because I've been so busy trying to start and operate this new store, Windsor Wines & Spirits, I've been unaware of the problems and controversy swirling around this issue of serving the homeless. I wish someone would have spoken with me personally so any misunderstandings and misperceptions could have been laid to rest. For this is a matter that I have given much thought and consideration. My first inclination when I was made aware of this site, was to draft a response lashing out in self-defense for being so misrepresented. However, an incendiary response wouldn't help in the discussion. Unfortunately, the trouble with these blogs, is that people can write whatever they want regardless of the truth or accuracy of their comments and absent of any journalistic standard, and other trusting, less scrutinizing readers are likely to take what is written as gospel. So let me make this clear, here is Windsor Wines & Spirits policy: We do NOT serve the visibly intoxicated. We DO serve the homeless. Alcoholism and homelessness are socio-economic issues that need to be addressed by a community, borough, state, and nation and it is unfair and unreasonable to put the onus of that problem on one business. The problem was created long before any individual stepped into our store. One of the surprising and wonderful gifts that owning this store has given me, is a chance to get to know these homeless people on a personal level. They each have rich, fascinating, tragic, and noble stories to tell. Unfortunately when faced with the filth and stench, we sometimes wish the homeless to disappear hoping perhaps to protect our property value and be spared of the daily reminder of the hardship of others, but I think we are called to welcome their presence and friendship. Sweat, who was indeed sleeping between our store and Dub pies on a recent Sunday, did need to have an ambulance come and pick him up. I did serve him vodka that day. However, he needed it to salve the pain of an infected, horribly swollen knee. He also planted himself at that location for the very reason of getting medical attention. I'm glad he got it. Billy, also known as Lefty, who lives outside the entrance to this store, has been there for over 15 years. I've owned this shop for just 3 months. I'm not willing to make his life harder by trying to uproot him just for the sake of appearance. Moreover, his addiction of choice does not involve this wine shop. Other than breaking some public behavior laws, the homeless in this community are almost to a person harmless and law abiding. I think it unwise to tempt them, out of desperation, to find succor through crime and theft. We make less than 50 cents on half pints of Alexi and Georgi vodka. Profit is not our motivation in selling it. Our motivation is that people want it and in some cases need it. Perfectly respectable and sober individuals request that item because it's affordable and within their budget. We have no more control over the well dressed business man who buys an expensive, high end vodka then hours later gets behind a wheel any more than we do over the severe alcoholic who drinks quietly in the park to steady his tremors. My hope and wish is that each of us will use alcohol responsibly, but the fact remains that some don't. On our part, we'll do what we can to help alleviate the plight of the homeless, but not if it means refusing them service in order to pass the problem on to a neighboring community. I realize by making this decision, I'm not absolved of my responsibilty of feeding the addiction of a few, but my blame does not exceed that of a deli owner who sells cigarettes, a bar that serves regulars pints of beer, or a fast food chain that serves customers fatty foods. We are all, as individuals and a society, culpable on some level. And in a country that hails the freedom of the individual, I don't believe it's my place to make behavioral choices for others. In a world where most issues of morality are seldom black and white, I feel comfortable guided by the principles of kindness and compassion from which I was raised, to live within the gray of life. I'm sure some may have differing ideas, and I'm willing to hear others opinions and suggestions and welcome people visiting and addressing them to me personally, but not over a faceless blog. If individuals are still unhappy with this store's policy and viewpoints then I welcome you to boycott or make appeals to other authorities. I'm more than willing to defend my position before Community Board 7 or the State Liquor Authority. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and come in and visit us. We really are nice folks who mean the best. Cheers! John Lenartz Owner Windsor Wine & Spirits, Inc. 469 16th Street Brooklyn, NY 11215 718-768-2291
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Anonymous
Posts: 9,622John - Thanks for coming and telling another side of the story. -
Subject: The truth be told
My posting of 4/29 was not a faceless fabrication and represents exactly what occurred, I entered your establishment and spoke with a 40-ish clerk who had black hair and was discussing Vodkas with a client whose bill came to $88.00 I advised the clerk of both my and the community's concerns about the homeless who enter the store while intoxicated and are then sold alcohol. I feel you should discuss it with him, as the response he gave was less than assuring that the problem would be addressed As far as Sweat is concerned, he obviously wasn't waiting for an ambulance, he was flat on his back and out cold along with an another drunk , who is laying next to him, was he also waiting for an ambulance? If you were really concerned about Sweat's well being you should have called for an ambulance rather than sold him alcohol,which just added to his problem. Billy/Lefty has nothing to do with my posting . I'm addressing the ongoing problem of homeless drunks urinating and defecating on 16th st and in the circle at Bartel Pritchard Sq. Your statement: "We'll do what we can to help alleviate the plight of the homeless, but not if it means refusing them service in order to pass the problem on to a neighboring community." COMMERCE OVER COMMUNITY! I hope you're not serious that you think it's ok to continue to contaminate our community because you don't want to burden another community. The answer is very simple: if someone intoxicated enters your establishment, refuse to service them. I'm not trying to start a movement to interfere with your business and I will stop by in the next day or two and we can have a further discussion on this. -
johnlenartz » Oh my, because I've been so busy trying to start and operate this new store, Windsor Wines & Spirits, I've been unaware of the problems and controversy swirling around this issue of serving the homeless. I wish someone would have spoken with me personally so any misunderstandings and misperceptions could have been laid to rest. For this is a matter that I have given much thought and consideration. Cheers! John Lenartz Owner Windsor Wine & Spirits, Inc. 469 16th Street Brooklyn, NY 11215 718-768-2291
Mr. Lenartz, thank you for your thoughtful response to the matter. However, I would take anything written here with a grain of salt. With regards to the individual who was calling you out, before you he/she was on holy mission against the skateboarding kids on the Park Circle, and before them God knows who else. It just so appears that you are the latest in a chain of easy and visible targets. Best of luck with your business, and keep your head up.
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Thoughtful Response? Actually, I was brought to tears when the owner stated how he served vodka to Sweat, as he needed it to alleviate the pain of an infected, horribly swollen knee and how Sweat planted himself on the street between the Liquor store and Dub's, awaiting medical attention. Hey, who needs Mother Theresa I'm sure Dub's clients were delighted by the sight of an unconscious body by the benches they sit on. Now to move off-topic on to your statement of skateboarding "kids". This another case of your selective misinterpretation of what was posted in the past. My postings of last year clearly stated they were not kids, but 18 to 20 yr olds on amphetamines who thought nothing of crashing into women with carriages, knocking people down and threatening them if they complained. I guess, much to your dismay, the 78th pct agreed with me and nailed them with summons and they went elsewhere. I'm glad to have been part of a movement to get rid of them. By the way - I also: Shut down a crack house on PPW and 14th st. Had an obscene billboard taken down at 205 PPW Filmed three punks assaulting someone in the circle, which led to their arrest. I would list more, but it might further infuriate you... rather than being perceived as beneficial to the community - it would be perceived as an affront to your peculiar standard of existence. They only community reference I've seen from you, was the fact you take your children out and show them Skid Row types What a Dad. I would like to ask you a question -and I hope you can give an honest answer - didn't you use to post under the name 'Restless Native' ?And weren't you banned from this forum?
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So what happened to Sweat? Did he get medical attention? Does his knee still hurt?
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Hamilton, I think you should be commended for what you do for your community. You should take over De Blasio's job. Maybe obamanut can invite the drunken guys to live in his apt. I was looking forward to trying those Dub pies after someone here mentioned them but I'll pass, for now anyway.
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johnlenartz » Sweat, who was indeed sleeping between our store and Dub pies on a recent Sunday, did need to have an ambulance come and pick him up. I did serve him vodka that day. However, he needed it to salve the pain of an infected, horribly swollen knee. He also planted himself at that location for the very reason of getting medical attention. I'm glad he got it.
I'm just glad we have a new quick response medical center in Windsor Terrace where our maladies can be diagnosed and then have treatment prescribed and sold in a pint flask!
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DukeofWindsor » So what happened to Sweat? Did he get medical attention? Does his knee still hurt?
***************************** He's back in action,on Wed. evening a friend and myself were sitting outside of Conn. Muffin, he was in the Circle arguing with another drunk who was in a wheelchair. As he approached her ,she stood up and started to wave her cane at him, he then responded by flailing his cane at her and before we knew it we were watching a wino dueling match that appeared to be straight out of a Mel Brooks Movie, it came to an abrupt end when one of the other Circle dwellers came to the aid of the Damsel in distress,he grabbed Sweat and threw him head first into a bench . On thursday evening he tried to intercede in an argument between two Circle dwellers and was slammed to the ground, breaking his half pint of the Miracle Vodka he purchased a half hour earlier. As it's going to rain today ,I'll have to wait till Saturday evening to experience the ongoing saga of Sweat and the Circle Dwellers. -
Please keep us posted!
Ok, now I'm crazy. Another goal achieved.
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