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A study has been done on the traffic flow at the GAP and the lack of (safe) access to the actual island that houses the arch and the fountain... There's a pretty interesting pdf here http://www.transalt.org/press/releases/060602gapgehl.html done by an urban planning firm in copenhagen denmark, showing what is there now and how it can be improved, and compares it to other major urban plazas in different parts of the world.
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an excellent start. they seem to have a good handle on the problems that need to be fixed. the proposed solutions, while not always clear or complete, contain some very good ideas. i like the idea of running flatbush through a tunnel under the gap, which would eliminate a lot of traffic at street level. but why go to all that expense if it doesn't solve the problem of access to the gap and inadequate crossings for pedestrians? the proposals for these problems don't seem to go far enough. i wouldn't know how to engineer this, but it seems that at the most problematic crossings--between the library and the park and at union st./prospect park west--either traffic should go underground or there needs to be an overpass for bikes and pedestrians."Here's a little tip I would like to relate: Many fish bites if you got good bait."
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Subject: Civic groups hire architect to redesign Grand Army Plaza
They were talking about new plans for construction this morning on News 12. Here's some info from their site: Civic groups hire architect to redesign Grand Army Plaza (06/02/06) GRAND ARMY PLAZA – Brooklyn civic groups are rallying to reclaim Grand Army Plaza as a family friendly destination, rather than a traffic nightmare. Activists say the arch, modeled after some in Paris, was supposed to serve as the entry to Prospect Park. Instead, they say the site has become one of the borough’s busiest traffic circles. Some residents say they rarely enjoy the space because cars speed by. Civic groups have hired a Danish architect to visualize the plaza’s full potential. They would like to see it become the link between the park, library and the neighborhood, complete with viewing corridors. The effort is in the early stage and there are up to 30 conceptual ideas. Community leaders say they are not sure where the money will come from. -
they could make like bridges for people to cross or tunnels for cars to go under.Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
I like to stick it to The Man, The Man happens to be Liberal in NYC(power Structure). -
Or provide decent MTA service to Mill Basin....meh-tool
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The coincidental alignment of the
Arch and The Empire State Buildinghttp://www.rfkessler.com/coincidenceColor.pdf
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
Yup.
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Reminds me of how the arch used to beautifully frame the 2 WTC towers.
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proof of Alien influence?
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Considering that the arch was built about 40 years before the Empire State building, I'm going to go with yes, it is a coincidence. I'm not sure I understand the point - if something is too interesting to be a coincidence, is the implication then that it's part of some sort of conspiracy? Can't something just be neat?
You can see the Statue of Liberty on 15th street at the Armory. Coincidence, or was this designed to motivate soldiers on the armory drill floor? At least it's feasible since the Armory was built nine years after the Statue of Liberty was erected.
The Williamsburg Bank Building was built more than 80 years before Jersey Shore was created, yet it is clearly flipping the bird at the Garden State. Coincidence?
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If you read the guys book he says the Arc was built to line up with the building that was where the Empire State Building was built. Not the old Waldorf Astoria, but the building that was there before that.
It is a stretch but
Don't get me started -
ringrunner said:
If you read the guys book he says the Arc was built to line up with the building that was where the Empire State Building was built. Not the old Waldorf Astoria, but the building that was there before that.It is a stretch but
Considering that the building was what - a 4-story building? I'd say that it's more than a stretch.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
Just attribute it all to aliens, and it will all make sense.
BTW, I think they are storing aliens in those giant blocks of granite they have arranged around the plaza.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Frederick Law Olmsted toured the South from 1852 to 1854, reporting for the New York Times on life in the 'Cotton Kingdom.’ During the Civil War he was Executive Secretary of the Sanitary Commission, managing the care of wounded Union soldiers for President Abraham Lincoln.
He co-founded the Union League and Nation magazine before designing Prospect Park.In 1865, as the Civil War ended, Olmsted and Calvert Vaux positioned Prospect Park's elliptical plaza so that its axis would point at the 350 Fifth Avenue mansion of William Astor, who was a leader of a group of Democratic politicians and merchants who wished to prevent war or secession. This group, weeks after the election of Lincoln in November 1860, held the 'Pine Street Meeting.’ They appointed a committee headed by former President Millard Fillmore that was to assure Jefferson Davis of their support to amend the Constitution to provide permanent protection for slavery. Their activities contributed to the Draft Riots of July 1863 and continuing strong northern anti-Lincoln sentiment.
The Plaza opened in 1867 with a lone stream of water as its centerpiece. It was named "The Fountain of the Golden Spray,” a subtle message aimed at the enemies of the assassinated President. In 1869, the first statue dedicated to Abraham Lincoln was positioned at the northern end of the plaza's axis. Holding the Emancipation Proclamation, facing north along the axis, he confronts the mansion, the center of Manhattan’s elite society, five miles away. In 1889, when the cornerstone of Duncan's Defenders Arch was laid, Lincoln's words and the invisible corridor were to have been framed in stone. It was a simple arch with a simple message.
But political tides had turned. Hayes was awarded the Presidency by a joint session of Congress in 1877 based on his promise to remove Union troops from the South, aborting Reconstruction. In 1883, the Supreme Court reversed the Civil Rights Act of 1875. In 1895, Olmsted retired. The Lincoln Statue was turned around, marched into Prospect Park and abandoned. Vaux drowned in Gravesend Bay. Six months later, the Supreme Court declared racial segregation Constitutional (Separate but Equal). By 1897, the 350 Fifth Avenue mansion was rebuilt as the Waldorf-Astoria. In 1898, the Arch was draped in statuary and Brooklyn merged into New York City.
The Empire State Building replaced the Waldorf-Astoria, revealing this historic visual corridor.
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
Your historical facts and proofs are all made up lies to obscure the reality.
Why must you be so opposed to the existence and influence of aliens?
My posts are this thread are devoted to UFO-ologists. I hope that someday I will achieve their scientific rigor and ability to believe that everything that is a conspiracy.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
richard said:
Frederick Law Olmsted toured the South from 1852 to 1854, reporting for the New York Times on life in the 'Cotton Kingdom.’ During the Civil War he was Executive Secretary of the Sanitary Commission, managing the care of wounded Union soldiers for President Abraham Lincoln.
He co-founded the Union League and Nation magazine before designing Prospect Park.In 1865, as the Civil War ended, Olmsted and Calvert Vaux positioned Prospect Park's elliptical plaza so that its axis would point at the 350 Fifth Avenue mansion of William Astor, who was a leader of a group of Democratic politicians and merchants who wished to prevent war or secession. This group, weeks after the election of Lincoln in November 1860, held the 'Pine Street Meeting.’ They appointed a committee headed by former President Millard Fillmore that was to assure Jefferson Davis of their support to amend the Constitution to provide permanent protection for slavery. Their activities contributed to the Draft Riots of July 1863 and continuing strong northern anti-Lincoln sentiment.
The Plaza opened in 1867 with a lone stream of water as its centerpiece. It was named "The Fountain of the Golden Spray,” a subtle message aimed at the enemies of the assassinated President. In 1869, the first statue dedicated to Abraham Lincoln was positioned at the northern end of the plaza's axis. Holding the Emancipation Proclamation, facing north along the axis, he confronts the mansion, the center of Manhattan’s elite society, five miles away. In 1889, when the cornerstone of Duncan's Defenders Arch was laid, Lincoln's words and the invisible corridor were to have been framed in stone. It was a simple arch with a simple message.
But political tides had turned. Hayes was awarded the Presidency by a joint session of Congress in 1877 based on his promise to remove Union troops from the South, aborting Reconstruction. In 1883, the Supreme Court reversed the Civil Rights Act of 1875. In 1895, Olmsted retired. The Lincoln Statue was turned around, marched into Prospect Park and abandoned. Vaux drowned in Gravesend Bay. Six months later, the Supreme Court declared racial segregation Constitutional (Separate but Equal). By 1897, the 350 Fifth Avenue mansion was rebuilt as the Waldorf-Astoria. In 1898, the Arch was draped in statuary and Brooklyn merged into New York City.
The Empire State Building replaced the Waldorf-Astoria, revealing this historic visual corridor.
^^^ Uh, yeah, that section that you copy/pasted was already linked to a few posts up.
You're obviously affiliated with brooklynmirador so why not just come out and state your agenda?
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
@Richard Where'd you learn that story? It's incredible
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Just as WhyFi says - I have an agenda.
When I realized that the alignment existed, including the lamp post, I came back at night and was so disappointed that the glare from a street light ruined what should be a beautiful postcard-perfect evening view of Brooklyn and NYC. Instead of running to DOT and asking that the street light be masked or moved to enhance the beauty, I did a little homework, hoping to find a some interesting reason to protect the view that would dictate removing the glare.
Or whether this is a well-known view and heavily documented.
Nothing of this View so I broke down into components, and figured that chronology would connect the dots.I once the 1865 alignment of the axis and the mansion was apparent, I never doubted that there was an initial plan by Olmsted and Vaux. At first, it seemed it was obviously a tribute to the Astor power and wealth. But when I found the name of the first fountain "The Fountain of the Golden Spray" - COME ON - something really cool has created this view and I've tried to account for the reason each element was involved - from 1865 thru 1970.
So now I am trying to make my neighbors aware of this View.
After every one loves it, maybe Building Six of Atlantic Yards will be limited so it doesn't eclipse the View.I email Boro Hall, Prospect Park Alliance, GAPCO, newspapers, blah blah blah and do the websites and hand out documentation and wrote a short book and printed some tee-shirts so I might make a buck-two-fifty if the View from Brooklyn Mirador becomes an "Historic Visual Corridor"
But the view is cool. And still only a few people are aware it exists. It would be great if those with credentials became interested enough to check the manner in which I connected the dots to come up with this story. I did graduate Andrew Jackson High School, after all.
Parents should take the kids to check the view after dinner.
Before it dissapearsDon't let the turkeys get you down. -
richard said:
I once the 1865 alignment of the axis and the mansion was apparent, I never doubted that there was an initial plan by Olmsted and Vaux.What evidence do you have to support that this was the intent?
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Of course I have found no
documentation specific to my topics
-- the View,
-- or why the Plaza'sposition, shape,
size were inportant to the planners.So what you read here is based on my
original attempt at connecting many
accepted dates and events to develop
a reason why the View should be retained,
promoted heavily, or least evaluated properly.I found that there were strongly divided
enemy groups among New Yorkers.
Pro-Lincoln (Olmsted, Vaux, and Stranahan)
Anti-Lincoln (Astor, Democrats, Merchants).In 1865, Lincoln was
assassinated as the war ended.
The Constitution was amended
to protect Civil Rights.In 1867 when the Plaza opened,
the single jet of water,
The Fountain of the Golden Spray
was the centerpieceof the elliptical Plaza,
whose axis was aimed at the mansion.
--I interpret this a locker room message to
the enemies of theassassinated President's
--A condemnationTwo years later the Statue of Lincoln was
unveiled at the north end of the axis facing
the mansion holding the Emancipation Proclamation.
--I interpret this to be Lincoln lecturing them
from the grave
--I interpret the 1889 ground breaking
for Duncan's simple Arch to set in stone,
the message of the fountain and Lincoln
to the invisible mansionWith the aborting of Reconstruction in 1877,
political tides had turned
Civil Rights Acts were reversed.1895 - Olmsted retires,
-the Lincoln Statue is abandoned in the Convert Grove,
-Vaux drowns in Gravesend Bay.1896 - Supreme Court says
racial segregation Constitutional.So that is my case: the original alignment
(the fountain, Lincoln, mansion)
was intentional and known at the time.
And altered at the first opportunity.1897 - 17 Story Astoria Hotel
opens on site of Astor Mansion.
--??Could one make eye-contact between the
----??top of the Arch and Astora Hotel??
1898 - The Arch Is draped with statuary
and Brooklyn merges into NY.Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
When you "know" that a line exists, it's easy enough to find dots that fit that line. Are you trying to shoehorn miscellaneous facts in to your vision?
Fine, I'll do the same... I'm going to start out with the premise that monument builders have a propensity for lining things up, geographically speaking - they always seem to face things due North, East, South or West, whether for symbolic or anal-retentive reasons.
1) Is the arch/plaza pointing due north? It is pointing roughly towards the ESB... using that as a point, with some quick and dirty math (Euclidean - I'm not getting in to arcs) it indicates that the arch/plaza points about 8.3 degrees west of true north... drat.
2) Then I remembered the compass in the BBG - the one that notes the magnetic deviation from true north. That made me do about 2 seconds of searching into magnetic declination. The calculators that I could find wouldn't go back far enough, but in the year 1900, at GAP, magnetic north deviated by 8 degrees, 41 seconds (8.68 degrees, in decimal form) and was slowly drifting further west (in other words, the deviation would have been slightly less, prior).
Hmmmm, I think that Ockham would prefer my explanation, but feel free to continue in your belief that the arch/plaza orientation was (literally) a monumental F U to political rivals.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
You definitely get it.
Two artists pulled off this great Public Art Work.
The brush changes hands and has been a work-in-progress.And it should be protected - Landmarked.
And nobody is aware it exists.Please just visit it and make others aware it is there.
And if you don't like my story, I can add more about
Washington Irving and John Howard Payne.Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
I was a sceptic, but you've convinced me.
...I'm now for protecting things on the basis of conjecture and revisionism.
What could go wrong?
(sarcasm)
Whyfi, where does one go to school to become a ufo-ologist? History is boring.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
richard said:
You definitely get it.
Two artists pulled off this great Public Art Work.
The brush changes hands and has been a work-in-progress.And it should be protected - Landmarked.
And nobody is aware it exists.Please just visit it and make others aware it is there.
And if you don't like my story, I can add more about
Washington Irving and John Howard Payne.You evidently DON'T get it.
The view is, IMO, coincidental. To that end, I think that my 15 minutes worth of work holds more water than your effort to shoehorn irrelevant facts to fit your theory. Yes, you can fool some people by sheer abundance of facts. Others, though, will see it as an amateurish attempt to bulldoze people in to your line of thinking and they will resent you for it. Your credibility will start off in the hole. They will not back you. They will not back your efforts. I, for one, would be far more likely to back something like this if it were approached differently -
1) Stop initiating conversation without disclosure. Your couching is disingenuous and it's not doing you any favors in terms of your perception by others.
2) Stop trying to ramrod facts where they have no relevance. Again, it's not doing you any favors.
3) Promote the view as a happy coincidence worth admiring and saving. You'll likely gain more support this way than with your current methods.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
This is sort of the reverse of a conspiracy theory... great forces and unknown actors have conspired... to do something excellent!
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yes, like those people who believe that Area 51 has Aliens.
I love those people
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
...not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Just that fact that the government says they don't exist is enough proof for me that they DO exist.
(um, not really)
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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