Get Brooklynian.com by Email! 
Grab the Feed (RSS)
I put this link up in Park Slope, but Prospect Heights shares Grand Army Plaza.
Does everyone know this virew?
http://www.rfkessler.com/coincidenceColor.pdf
Don't let the turkeys get you down.
Brooklynian » Forum » Prospect Heights »
-
I thought it was called a "Golden Shower".
-
Jezuz H - if you're going to continue to spam this, at least show the good form of disclosing your association and agenda.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
I responded to you yesterday
Just as WhyFi says - I have an agenda.
When I realized that the alignment existed, including the lamp post, I came back that night and was so disappointed that the glare from a street light ruined what should be a beautiful postcard-perfect evening view of Brooklyn and NYC. Instead of running to DOT and asking that the street light be masked or moved to enhance the beauty, I did a little homework, hoping to find a some interesting reason to protect the view that would dictate removing the glare.
Or whether this is a well-known view and heavily documented.
Nothing of this View. I broke it down into components, and figured that chronology would connect the dots.The 1865 alignment of the axis and the mansion is apparent.
You agree that the alignment exists today (you have checked that the view acually exists?): the Tower, the JFK Bust, Bailey Fountain, the center of the Arch, and the Mirador.
The 1892 photo of Lincoln and the fountain aligned with the center of the Arch shows that they are on the same line. The axis has always been pointed at whatever was at 350 Fifth Avenue.
Once I saw this I never doubted that there was an initial plan by Olmsted and Vaux. At first, it seemed it was obviously a tribute to the Astor power and wealth. But when I found the name of the first fountain "The Fountain of the Golden Spray" - COME ON - something really cool has created this view and I've tried to account for the reason each element was involved - from 1865 thru 1970.So now I am trying to make my neighbors aware of this View.
Forgive me if my history is stupid, the View is Great and everyone should be aware of it.Maybe they will remove the glare at night. You have to check it out at night, even with the glare.
After every one sees the VIew, maybe Building Six of Atlantic Yards will be not so tall as to eclipse the View.
I email Boro Hall, Prospect Park Alliance, GAPCO, newspapers, blah blah blah and do the websites and hand out documentation and wrote a short book and printed some tee-shirts so I might make a buck-two-fifty if the View from Brooklyn Mirador becomes an "Historic Visual Corridor."
Unfortunately, too many people share your point of view and wave it away.But the view is cool. And still only a few people are aware it exists. It would be great if those with credentials became interested enough to check the manner in which I connected the dots to come up with this story. I did graduate Andrew Jackson High School, after all.
Parents should take the kids to check the Mirador every night after dinner, a nice walk and a nice way to meet the neighbors. Before it dissapears
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
And as I replied yesterday, in your other thread -
WhyFi said:
When you "know" that a line exists, it's easy enough to find dots that fit that line. Are you trying to shoehorn miscellaneous facts in to your vision?Fine, I'll do the same... I'm going to start out with the premise that monument builders have a propensity for lining things up, geographically speaking - they always seem to face things due North, East, South or West, whether for symbolic or anal-retentive reasons.
1) Is the arch/plaza pointing due north? It is pointing roughly towards the ESB... using that as a point, with some quick and dirty math (Euclidean - I'm not getting in to arcs) it indicates that the arch/plaza points about 8.3 degrees west of true north... drat.
2) Then I remembered the compass in the BBG - the one that notes the magnetic deviation from true north. That made me do about 2 seconds of searching into magnetic declination. The calculators that I could find wouldn't go back far enough, but in the year 1900, at GAP, magnetic north deviated by 8 degrees, 41 seconds (8.68 degrees, in decimal form) and was slowly drifting further west (in other words, the deviation would have been slightly less, prior).
Hmmmm, I think that Ockham would prefer my explanation, but feel free to continue in your belief that the arch/plaza orientation was (literally) a monumental F U to political rivals.
The orientation aligns with magnetic north at the time of construction. It is a happy coincidence that the location of the ESB falls within the arch. Stop trying to make it more than it is and you may gain more traction.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
Have you stood at the Mirador and verified the that the Tower precisely bisects the Arch? The coincidental placement of this lamp post, providing the perfect view of this coincdental alignment, sparks zero curiosity in you?
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
I'm curious, what's your support for the "Mirador" - what's the origination of the name?
As for sparking curiosity, it's evidently sparked more in me than it has in you. You immediately quit looking for explanations after deciding that it (the alignment) was purposeful. From that point on, you've looked for anything that you could tenuously attribute to a grande scheme. I, on the other hand, decided that your "evidence" left something wanting and have searched for other, reasonable ways of explaining the alignment. I believe that I've done just that.
Unfortunately, too many people share your point of view and wave it away.
But by all means - continue pursuit along your Quixotic route, but don't expect different results - that would be insanity....not that there's anything wrong with that. -
once upon a time, I lived in the 'burbs and the locals were so desperate to save a field that was familiar to them that they actually created "history" to show that it had once been an Native American village.
(of course, everything was ONCE a Native American village, but they could find no proof of one being there).
After a little digging and questioning (like that done by Whyfi) the developer discovered their sorry Quixotic attempt at manipulation, and got the permits while rolling his eyes and shaking his head.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
A mirador is a balcony or a window with a view. Brooklyn Mirador is a better name than Richard's Lamp Post.
I guess I am desperate the save this view and the only way I see is to have more of our neighbors aware of it. Dig a little and tell us what history I have manipulated. I would appreciate any specific corrections to what you believe I have selfishly manufactured.
Again, visit the Mirador at night and judge whether the View should be acknowledged, and perhaps preserved.
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
Ah, I expected as much. Much like the name "Haagen Dasz," a US ice cream company, isn't a lie, "The Brooklyn Mirador," is a name given with the hope of an implied, and false, provenance. This, again, is something that you should disclose. This, again, is an example of why you've gained no traction - because people have a built in BS meter and it goes off when you manufacture provenance and try to connect disparate dots of history so that they'll fit your line.
I have never questioned the veracity of any of your facts. I question (for the third or seventh time) the relevance of those facts.
'nother question for you - can you see the 4th floor of the ESB from Richard's Lamp Post?
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
Whyfi, in the past, they had long distance, x-ray vision.
....however, with the onset of government mandated poison fluoride in our water supply, and vaccines which inject CIA monitoring devices into us when we are children, this ability has been lost.
Hence, the designer of the Arch completely had the building that formerly occupied the ESB in mind when he built the arch, and the view should be preserved.
BTW, I bet that during the Battle of Brooklyn that view is what caused us to lose. Can my subjective opinion be used as a reason to destroy the view, thus canceling out Richard's?
....on a more serious note, I'm really glad they established a zoning code and a court system to mitigate such silly-ness.
I'll also add that I'm impressed the Brooklyn Paper decided not to run this Quixotic nonsense. Good job Brooklyn Paper!
...next time, try to submit it to the comics section?
P.S. Those who like views should observe the view of Mahattan as they cross Washington Ave at EP. It is really nice, and not at risk of disappearing anytime soon.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Did planners, Vaux and Olmsted, intend to align the axis of their Civil War Plaza with the Astor mansion?
No, they obviously intended it to line up with center court of Barclays Center.
-
Play Ground, that was too funny
(\__/)
(=’.'=)
(”)_(”) -
I like the name Mirador.
This is a impressive, unique, unknown, beautiful VIEW
- and a unique, unknown nice-sounding word (mirror door).
Summer nights the wind blows the full trees and the
lit up ESB is flickering through the lit up purple arch.
In your dictionary, what are the
words on either side of Mirador?
Five points precisely aligned and not related,
what are too odds? Too many conincidences
- not for master surveyors.
NICE PICTURE OF THE VIEWhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Arch_and_EmpireSB_-_Grand_Army_Plaza_Brooklyn.jpg
Take an after dinner walk to the Mirador and Grand Army Plaza - let me know what you think.
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
i'll have some of what richard's smoking.
"Here's a little tip I would like to relate: Many fish bites if you got good bait." -
i'd like to point out that if you follow olmstead's "noble motive" north, past where lincoln used to be, past where the empire state building later was, beyond the wind-blown full trees and even the mighty flowing hudson, this same line of vision directly bisects montreal and ottawa. olmstead's partner was the french-named englishman calvert vaux. olmstead and vaux dissolved their partnership in 1873, after the fountain was built but before the arch was erected. clearly the arch was intended to frame olmstead's animosity toward vaux in stone, by drawing a straight line from the fountain of piss directly between english and french canada. coincidence? maybe. but take a walk to the mirador after dinner, inhale deeply, hold, and contemplate. wow man.
"Here's a little tip I would like to relate: Many fish bites if you got good bait." -
You didn't answer my question, Richard - can you see the 4th floor of the ESB from Richard's Lamp Post?
Also, you never commented on my work correlating magnetic north with the orientation of the plaza. I'm hurt.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
Hi WhyFi -
I don't think you can see the 4th Floor of the ESB (the height of the Astor mansion) nor even the 17th floor (the height of the 1897 Astoria Hotel). I did like your work on the magnetic North thing - is it true?SmokinJoe - The line runs south, between and paralell to E16 Street and the Brighton Line to Manhattan Beach and just misses Far Rockaway. Going North it paralells South Cumberland, a few yards inside Fort Greene Park. Beyond the ESB, I only checked Grants' Tomb (nope - too far east).
Does it really extend to Montreal?I hope you guys have actual first hand knowledge of the view (I have been accused of using Photoshop to position the Tower inside the Arch). Old timers introduced to the View are amazed that they have never noticed it, even after knowing the park for 20-40 years. And everyone questions whether it is a string of coincidences or the result of a wonderful plan.
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
And everyone questions whether it is a string of coincidences or the result of a wonderful plan.
um, no, EVERYONE does not.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
richard said:I did like your work on the magnetic North thing - is it true?
Would I lie to you, Richard? Feel free to check my work.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
Any interest in the Concert Grove alignment?
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
richard said: Does it really extend to Montreal?
lines are infinite.
"Here's a little tip I would like to relate: Many fish bites if you got good bait." -
So, Smokin' Joe, you must have tried to get into the Fifth Avenue Apple Store the morning it opened?
Or are you just a geometry geek?
-
As a result of lines not being restricted by the curvature of the earth, I am wondering what happens when the line travel through space and eventually reaches a black hole.
Would this be an exception to the Smoking Joe's claim that all lines are infinite? I thought of emailing this question to Carl Sagan, but he is deceased.
Re: the newest Mac product. Yes, it seems whenever the line goes away, they release a new product, that then creates a new line. ....leading me to side with both Booklaw and Smoking Joe.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
The Concert Grove’s Oriental Pavilion was built in 1874,
its centerpiece - an 8-pointed star skylight. Some time earlier, the Plaza’s original fountain (replaced in 1873 by the Vaux Plaza Fountain) was moved to the Concert Grove.Twenty years later,in 1895, Olmsted retired and the Lincoln Statue was moved to the Concert Grove, overlooking Music Island. In November Calvert Vaux drowned in Gravesend Bay .
A straight line connects the skylight, the fountain (now a planter) and the Lincoln Statue. Using Google Earth, this straight line extends through Bath Beach to Gravesend Bay. Interesting or not.
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
"Not."
I have determined that by leaving one item stationary and moving another item, I can make a straight line with any third item IN THE WORLD.
You can do it too! But, before I tell you how, you'll need a glass of water and a remote control. Ready?
Step 1:
Place a glass with water in it in the middle of your living room.Step 2:
Put the remote anywhere you choose in the same room.Step 3:
Use Google Earth to figure out what cool thing the resulting line would hit. Declare huge coolness!Step 4:
Move remote so its alignment with the water glass will cause it to form a line that intersects with any "cool thing" you desire, such as the empire state building, or something made by a dead architect. Declare huge coolness!Step 5:
repeat.Step 6:
post your "findings" on the internet and/or submit to newspapers.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Oh, and, um, by the way... I don't think that the GAP axis lines up precisely with the ESB. I took another look the other day. Move closer to the arch, so that you're pretty much standing as close as you can while still able to see the top of the ESB (in the farmer's market area). Now, slide a little to line up the fountain with the ESB. Take a look at the inside of the arch - there's essentially a grid on the underside, and it makes it easier to tell that, when the fountain and ESB are aligned, you'll actually be standing a little closer to the right side of the arch than the left. It's not much, but it's certainly a degree or three.
...not that there's anything wrong with that. -
Whyfi, with all due respect, my method is easier.
It allows one to form a straight line without ever leaving their apartment.
I am a genius.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Question:
I saw pictures today of the inside of the Washington Square Arch. Can I go inside the arch at GAP?
http://gothamist.com/2011/03/08/another_inside_look_at_the_washingt.php
-
Answer:
The Arch at GAP is open on seemingly random weekends in the summer, and for "Open House New York".
I have been in it, and it is pretty cool.
Open House NY is an event that you should definitely attend, b/c it allows you to cheaply see many cool things you can not normally see. ....Like cool architecture.
Here are the things that were open last here: http://www.ohny.org/_pdfs/OHNY_Guide_2010.pdf
(note, this takes a while to load)For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Oh cool -- I seem to always miss the weekend for whatever reason.
If you happen to hear about a "random weekend in the summer", let me know!
-
whynot_31 said:
"Not."I have determined that by leaving one item stationary and moving another item, I can make a straight line with any third item IN THE WORLD.
It is not clear which of the five elements you feel is constantly being moved in order to achieve this perfect alignment. All five appear somewhat stationary (the Empire State Building, the JFK memorial, Bailey Fountain, the Arch and the Mirador). Please check the View at night. See the flashing red light at the top of the Empire State Building brush the ceiling of the Arch. Built 40 years apart, the Arch, Tower and Mirador are perfectly aligned. Call it coincidence and there is no reason to wonder “Why?”
Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
I stayed up all last night and made the above process have fewer words and steps:
First, pick a target object you wish to create a line to. You seem to like the Empire State Building, the JFK memorial, Bailey Fountain, the Arch and the Mirador.
Second, pick any point in the world.
Third, to support your conclusion that the objects are aligned, place yourself in a position that creates a line between yourself, the second point, and the first point. tada!
Lastly, I created an Alternate Method, which may be your preference:
Alternate Method:
Draw a line on the globe, then declare that everything on the line must have been built to be in line with each other.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Two Photos
Night shot showing ESB red warning light just touching the
ceiling of the Arch (and the glare of a street light blocking the center of the ESB).
Building Six of Atlantic Yards threatening to eclipse the View from the Brooklyn Mirador.Don't let the turkeys get you down. -
Sorry about all the noise. My fault.
I made the photos smaller.Don't let the turkeys get you down.
Welcome! Please log in to post, or register a new account!