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Jeffries gives ProCro The NoGo -may be against law in the future - broker fraud?
Will boil down to freedom of speech issue which he will lose, but got his name in the spotlight so well-played Jeffries.
In addition, such a law would be completely unenforceable from a practical stand point.
Gotta love the populist appeal thoughFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
In a city, state and country that is already over governed and already has too many stupid laws on the books, adding another stupid law is a waste of resources.
I have no problem, in principal, with codifying neighborhood names and boundaries - lots of cities around the world do that. If we go down that route, every neighborhood or suburb will end up with a politician's name because they love naming things after themselves (do you want to live in Cuomo, Silver or Jeffries?). I'm surprised they haven't got into this already.
am i too late?destination: roam
Trumpville would be really embarassingFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
I think its a great idea. Other municipalities (nationally and internationally) already name boundaries through a public process.
In terms of being enforcable all they have do to is have multiple ways to report offending brokers (complaints including real estate listing) and work on a system that creates a scale for the number of violations and maybe a letter grading system. Yes they would have to have some staff to check complaints but I dont see why it would have to be any different than the complaint process at the Department of Consumer Affairs.
How will old people pass the time if they can't be nostalgic about what their neighborhood was called, and it's former demographics?
Will we still have to call it Chinatown when it changes hands to another group?
Now that the Italians only occupy one street in Little Italy, and Chinatown has grown in size (and encompasses people from most of asia), must I refer to Mott St as being in Little Italy?
'Cause that would make no sense.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Now that the Italians only occupy one street in Little Italy, and Chinatown has grown in size (and encompasses people from most of asia), must I refer to Mott St as being in Little Italy?
Chinatown - Italy.
Whynot call it Chit ?
I like Chit, but am under the belief that the Dutch want the area to be referred to as New Amsterdam.
I've also just received a letter from a lawyer representing Native Americans. She says their name should take priority.
I say we get Jefferies to propose a law against change in all it's forms. That would make everything simple.
Um, can he do that?For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Too bad that I voted for this guy. I thought he was different, but this shows that he's no different from other attention-seeking politicians who care only about the next election. It's a shame he can't work harder and focus on genuine issues.
Jack, you mean things like education and training that might result in his poorest constituents getting better jobs, so they weren't priced out?
Or, the creation of additional affordable housing and/or section 8 vouchers?
I'm sure he's for those things too.
...but the " no new names, change is bad bill" is much easier than anything with substance.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
It also allows people to believe that brokers cause name changes and gentrification, causing people to think:
"if we can just keep our neighborhoods present name, we can stop change"
So quaint, trite and naive. I want to ride on that train. Damn it, If they get an enemy (brokers) want an enemy too!For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Granted, it can be viewed as demagogic, or quixotic, but consider whether Jeffries’ proposal could be beneficial to ALL consumers.
House-seekers waste so much time and money going to see apartments that are misrepresented in ads. Retail store owners can not get away with what brokers do. There ARE laws about such things when it comes to rental cars, durable consumer goods, advertised specials, etc.
However, I don’t see the made-up names as being as much of a problem as the falsely advertised locations. Remember, the street address is not always given, so one can not look it up for oneself. If the apartment is listed without an address, it should at least NOT have a false “neighborhood” location. This could be a benefit of Jeffries’s proposal. A commission could determine where neighborhood boundaries were and their names, and those names should be used in the context of commerce, with no non-conforming names. Seems pretty simple, though I’m sure there’d be some tricky junctures when drawing the map. For those concerned about change over time, there could be a revision of the map periodically. Fair enough?
As long as they had all the players at the table to write the above law, I would also like it if accurate measurements of an apartment were mandatory in ads. Ceiling height and floor area as square feet. So quantifiable. You can’t make that shit up when you’re selling a television, why is it OK for real estate?
So I am willing to hear Jeffries out, and if his proposal is developed in a broader, consumer-protection context, I might be appreciative of his efforts. Some things might have to remain fuzzy, as, for example, the definition of “cozy,” but other things can be quantified, and it would be nice if those things were accurate in ads.
sandcastler that sounds levelheaded to me. Cheers -IP
Thank you inpixels
it's the deliberately misleading made-up names that are impossible to police. that's why mcdonalds sells a "thick shake," which sounds remarkably like a common drink made with ice cream but isn't, cookies are filled with "creme," and there's a product called mrs. butterworth that has neither butter nor worth, etc. pro-cro, nolita, noho, whatever, they're all neighborhoods of saleslandia."Here's a little tip I would like to relate: Many fish bites if you got good bait."
Assuming they were ever able to create a list of the official names (a big assumption), If I were a broker, I would adapt by using the regulated neighborhood names with modifiers before or after them or use terms that had no regulations attached.
Near Prospect Heights
Minutes from prospect park
Gentrified Crown Heights
This way I could continue to convince the less savvy buyers that they were living in a neighborhood they couldn't actually afford (or didn't want to pay for).
You know, like how Kraft advertises Cheese Product? ....because it isn't cheese.
I agree, the government could do more to protect consumers, but I don't think Jefferies is going about it the right way. Caveat emptor remains the best adviceFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Weren't all neighborhood names made up by the folks in saleslandia?
Wasn't Crown Heights created when they made Crown St, and wanted to create a more exclusive sounding neighborhood for the wealthy?For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
The commission on neighbor names sounds like a hellish place to be.
All of the various ethnicities and interest groups would complain that the neighborhood should be named after them, based on vague authority.
Folks would constantly test the limits of the law by naming their area after real features:
"Brower Park area of Crown Heights" would be shortened to Brower Park.
We are talking about full time employment for life for the folks on that commission.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
ProCro, SoBro, FiDi, BoCoCa: A Lawmaker Says, ‘Enough’
"Jonathan Butler, who created the Brooklyn blog Brownstoner, said the area that set Mr. Jeffries off, “ProCro,” may deserve its own name because it shares elements of both Prospect Heights and Crown Heights. “Crown Heights is huge,” he said, “and in this case, the subneighborhood designation is quite helpful.”
For all the fuss, a cursory search of Craigslist ads revealed no trace of listings for “ProCro.” "
this agent seems to like the traditional borders and name "Crown Heights", s/he even takes the time to describe the borders in their ad:
this guy seems partial to bringing the name "Crow Hill" back from the past:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/abo/2331410976.htmlFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Daily poll: “Pro-Cro,” Brooklyn
Posted in Own This City by Tim Lowery on Apr 6, 2011 at 6:44pm
We’re shocked we haven’t asked you yet about “Pro-Cro,” that term some realtors use to describe a section of Crown Heights that's near Prospect Heights. So after stumbling upon this man-on-the-street vid about the “’hood” this afternoon, here it goes: Does a little part of you die every time you hear “Pro-Cro”?
A little part of my brain dies whenever I read Gothamist; They put out that video.
I remain partial to the term "Crown Heights", and would like it if others called the area by my preference.
....however, I am quite opposed to government wasting time on this issue. They have actual work that needs doing.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Jeffries has convinced Corcoran to label properties east of Washington Ave as Crown Heights: http://prospectheights.patch.com/articles/corcoran-caves-to-hakeem-jeffries-in-pro-cro-naming-war
Faux Prospect Heights is still here
FauxPro has a real ring to it.
THAT might stickFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
You can call it FauxPro, but I'm gonna call it FauxCro.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Brooklyn Broadside:The Neighborhood Names Flap
ladies and gentlemen,
I believe we are witnessing the groundwork for a mayoral race.
I believe he'll be running as the nominee for the Populist party.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
I dont think that Jeffries idea is a bad one. Anyway here is the Daily News take on it...
Calling area between 2 Brooklyn neighborhoods 'ProCo' is Heights of foolishness: politician
BY Erin Durkin
DAILY NEWS WRITER
Tuesday, May 31st 2011, 2:45 PM
There's a border war raging between Prospect Heights and Crown Heights - and a local Assemblyman is taking sides.
Purists put the border at Washington Ave., but some maps place it at Franklin Ave., two blocks to the east.
Many real estate brokers label apartments "Prospect Heights" far east of that, while others carve out a new mini-neighborhood in the border area and dub it "ProCro."
Meanwhile, an influx of new coffee shops and organic food groceries has stretches like Franklin Ave. starting to look more like tonier Prospect Heights blocks.
It's enough to make some neighborhood residents throw up their hands in confusion - but Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries has launched a crusade to return the neighborhoods to their traditional borders.
"Neighborhood names have meaning, and they should not be changed on the whim of a real estate broker trying to increase profit margins," said Jeffries, a Democrat, who represents both neighborhoods.
He's sponsoring a bill that would ban coining new neighborhood names without special approval, and is going after brokers he said are fudging the Prospect Heights-Crown Heights border.
He's already convinced the Corcoran Group to move its border from Bedford Ave. to Franklin - after a strongly worded letter suggesting its listings might be fraudulent.
Jeffries vowed to go after other brokers doing the same thing - and insisted it's not just semantics, since mislabeling neighborhoods lets landlords jack up rents.
"There's no First Amendment right to make things up," he said.
It may be an uphill battle. A search revealed dozens of Prospect Heights listings in the blocks east of Washington.
Marjorie Thompson, a broker at Washington Realty Corp., said she has no plans to change listings.
"My thing is to make money. I don't care about borders," she said. "I don't think you can regulate this stuff."
Along Classon Ave. in the heart of the disputed zone, some residents said the back-and-forth has left them with no clue where they actually live.
"I've got a barbecue tomorrow and I told everyone I live in Prospect Heights," said James Pearson, 48. "I'm confused, though. All I know is it's Kings County, Brooklyn."
Others backed the bid to keep the area for Crown Heights.
"It's taking away from something I know. I grew up here," said Steve Carr, 26. "You go through your bumps and bruises here. They can't just take your neighborhood away from you."
Abigail Hitchcock said when she opened Abigail Cafe and Wine Bar three years ago, the landlord told her it was in Prospect Heights.
"I didn't ever look into it. I printed our cards and our cards say Prospect Heights," she said. "We have a lot of people who grew up in the neighborhood work for us, and they say, 'This is Crown Heights!'"
One thing she's sure of - names like ProCro and Pro-Crown Heights have to go.
"I personally think they both sound like diseases, and I don't like either one of them," Hitchcock said.
While the occasional newspaper editorial touts Mr. Jeffries proposal as a "good idea", I think it is a good idea to consider the opinions and critiques of persons potentially involved in carrying out this law.
In the most recent version, Jeffries states that the task of determining and enforcing neighborhood boundaries and names would be put on the local community boards, and would only apply to NYC.
The community board members I've spoken to seem to view it as being completely beyond their scope and expertise. They also view it as being an unfunded mandate (an obligation with no method of funding), and being unnecessary in light of present laws which already prohibit realtor fraud, yet attempt to do it in a manner that do not attempt dictate neighborhood boundaries.
However, few if any community board members are up in arms about it because they see it as having zero chance of being passed into law.
But, we are not them. We can type about this despite it not being a real issue, and without risking the public's accusation that we should be doing better things with our time.
Ready? Ok, first, let's dig deeper than the populist rhetoric of "I hear your concerns about your neighborhood being renamed, and am working to address them".
Let's attempt to find substance in the proposal.
Given the state's upstate vs downstate rivalry, can one really imagine that the STATE legislature will successfully impose such an unfunded mandate on NYC? (I can not)
Oh, the joy of being a volunteer on a Community Board that was just saddled with this task! Oh, the assumption that (given their new powers) these struggling community boards would not quickly be overcome by those with agendas:
Let's name the neighborhood after my home country!
Let's name it after the hospital/college I work at!
Let's call it what it was known before these new people moved in 30 years ago!
Yes, let's look at feasibility. As a result of viewing the proposal's chances of success as being slim to nil, the community boards haven't taken the proposal too seriously.
However, a few that have bothered to make their voice heard in the press; They seem overwhelmingly (albeit very politely) opposed to the proposal.
For example, Robert Witherwax is the Second Vice Chair of our Community Board CB 8. [For those unaware, CB8, is the community board in which Mr. Jefferies, FauxPro, FauxCro, ProCro, CroPro, Crow Hill, Crown Heights, myself, and many of the readers of this message board all reside.]
Witherwax » To follow this logic to conclusion, we should have no more than six neighborhoods - Flatbush, New Utrecht, Gravesend, Bushwick, Flatlands, and Brooklyn - the original Dutch and English villages. That would be ridiculous. Equally ridiculous would be letting real estate agents and journalists pull and stretch neighborhood borders to fit the fashion of the day, until Park Slope comes to 3rd Avenue and 21st Street, Downtown Brooklyn comes to Dean Street and Sixth Avenue, and Birnam Wood comes to Dunsinane.
Neighborhood names are created, change, and will continue to change, based largely on what the people who choose to live in a particular location choose to call it, such as DUMBO or Prospect Lefferts Gardens, or choose to stop calling it, such as South Brooklyn. There is nothing wrong with new neighborhood names or elastic boundaries - so long as they evolve organically from their residents' needs.
To use the most seized-upon example, the area between Atlantic, Washington, Rogers, and Eastern Parkway has seen demographic shifts in recent years, which presumably have supplanted residents who self-identify with Crown Heights, with residents who self-identify with Prospect Heights; its main thoroughfare, Franklin Avenue, has seen something of a revitalization of late. Surely this liminal zone between two neighborhoods, this bustling corner of Brooklyn for which no current appellation exists, now deserves a handy name of its own.
What name to use? Ask the residents. Maybe they call it Prospect Heights; if so, fine with me. Maybe they call it ProCro: also fine (but I have never heard anyone except real estate bloggers call it ProCro!). The historian in me thinks Crow Hill is perfectly suitable. But it is not up to me, or a blogger, or an agent, or the city. New York City gains nothing by freezing neighborhood names, or by subjecting them to bureaucratic review, or by letting the real estate and journalism industries dictate names and boundaries.
We should not dampen the creativity that produced not only the sublime DUMBO but the ridiculous BoCoCa. The former has endured 40 years while the latter is evaporating before our eyes, because it was imposed awkwardly on a population that already had names for itself - Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens. It should be pointed out that those names were created and adopted out of necessity to identify different parts of South Brooklyn - which in turn identified the southern part of the Village of Brooklyn two hundred years ago. Times change, and names should change as needed.
Although I agree with Mr. Witherwax, and find his points to be succinct and clear, I feel the need to draw attention to his points and add viewpoints of my own:
-There already exists a system for determining which names will stick, and which will not: We each use our PREFERENCES TO CHOOSE.
-As I alluded to above, we often choose to call a neighborhood by multiple names. Although I tend to use the term Crown Heights the most often, I respect that others may want to call it whatever they want.
I think the only inaccurate terms I've heard for it is "ghetto" or "slum". Those terms are very insulting to the thousands of long term and short term residents who take pride in a place called "home".For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
BILL NO A07740
SAME AS No same as
SPONSOR Jeffries (MS)
COSPNSR Jaffee, Roberts, Scarborough, Camara, Robinson, Linares
MLTSPNSR Braunstein, Brennan, Gabryszak, Perry, Rivera P
Add Art 19-C S995, Gen Muni L
Relates to protecting the integrity of traditionally recognized neighborhoods
in certain cities; prohibits the renaming or re-designating of any
traditionally recognized neighborhood within such city except pursuant to a set
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BILL NO A07740
05/16/2011 referred to local governments
Go to top
There are no votes for this bill in this legislative session.
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TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the general municipal law, in relation
to protecting the integrity of traditionally recognized neighborhoods
PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL: The purpose of this bill is to prohibit
licensed real estate brokers from renaming neighborhoods or redefining
traditional boundaries without community input.
SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS: The general municipal law is amended by
adding a new article, 19-C, which reads in part:
"Section 995. Neighborhood integrity. 1. No person or entity shall
rename or re-designate a traditionally recognized neighborhood within a
city with a population of one million or more, or in any way reconsti-
tute traditionally recognized neighborhood boundaries, except as set
forth in subdivision two of this section.
2. The mayor, upon a majority approval of the city council, shall desig-
nate and direct a government office or agency to develop a process for
the proposed renaming of any traditionally recognized neighborhood, or
for the reconstitution of the boundaries of any such neighborhood. Such
process shall require input from the community board or boards which
represent such areas as established by the applicable city charter."
JUSTIFICATION: Real estate brokers have an obligation under New York
State law to publicly disseminate information that is accurate about the
property or listing being marketed. Pursuant to Sec. 441-c. of Article
12-A of the New York Real Property law, the Secretary of State is
empowered with the ability to sanction a licensed real estate broker "if
such licensee has been guilty of fraud or fraudulent practices, or for
dishonest or misleading advertising, or has demonstrated untrustworthi-
ness or incompetency to act as a real estate broker or salesman."
Notwithstanding this provision, realtors have increasingly resorted to a
practice of renaming neighborhoods and redrawing traditional neighbor-
hood boundaries in order to rebrand an area as more desirable for afflu-
ent New Yorkers. These actions are not without consequence.
First, realtors are artificially inflating housing prices in newly
renamed or redrawn neighborhoods to the detriment of working families
and middle class residents struggling to remain in increasingly unaf-
fordable communities. Second, prospective homebuyers and tenants are
compelled to pay higher rents or purchase prices than they might other-
wise confront. Third, neighborhoods are often renamed without regard to
its history, culture, character and tradition, thereby resulting in
changes to the cultural and historic landscape of New York City.
Examples include real estate brokers renaming parts of Crown Heights as
"ProCro," parts of Harlem as "SoHa," parts of Little Italy as "Nolita,"
marketing the South Bronx as "SoBro" and rebranding parts of Sunset Park
as "Greenwood Heights" due to the presence of the Greenwood cemetery in
that community. In other words, some realtors have apparently concluded
that it is more desirable to rename a neighborhood after the dead, rath-
er than associate it with those who have been living in that community
Individuals have a right to call neighborhoods anything they like. Real
estate brokers, however, are licensed and regulated by New York State
and have an affirmative obligation to provide accurate information to
the public. This obligation is undermined by the unchecked practice of
inventing neighborhoods out of thin air in order to attract high income
residents and further contribute to the gentrification phenomenon.
This legislation will require New York City to develop an official proc-
ess for the renaming of neighborhoods and redrawing of traditional boun-
daries. The process should include the relevant local community board
and involve meaningful community input. Realtors who violate this
provision would be subject to Section 441-c of the Real Property Law
PRIOR LEGISLATIVE HISTORY: New bill.
FISCAL IMPLICATIONS FOR STATE & LOCAL GOVERNMENTS: None.
EFFECTIVE DATE: This act shall take effect immediately.
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S T A T E O F N E W Y O R K
2011-2012 Regular Sessions
I N A S S E M B L Y
May 16, 2011
Introduced by M. of A. JEFFRIES, JAFFEE, ROBERTS, SCARBOROUGH, CAMARA --
Multi-Sponsored by -- M. of A. BRAUNSTEIN, BRENNAN, PERRY, P. RIVERA
-- read once and referred to the Committee on Local Governments
AN ACT to amend the general municipal law, in relation to protecting the
integrity of traditionally recognized neighborhoods
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEM-
BLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:
1 Section 1. The general municipal law is amended by adding a new arti-
2 cle 19-C to read as follows:
3 ARTICLE 19-C
4 NEIGHBORHOOD INTEGRITY ACT
5 SECTION 995. NEIGHBORHOOD INTEGRITY.
6 S 995. NEIGHBORHOOD INTEGRITY. 1. NO PERSON OR ENTITY SHALL RENAME OR
7 RE-DESIGNATE A TRADITIONALLY RECOGNIZED NEIGHBORHOOD WITHIN A CITY WITH
8 A POPULATION OF ONE MILLION OR MORE, OR IN ANY WAY RECONSTITUTE TRADI-
9 TIONALLY RECOGNIZED NEIGHBORHOOD BOUNDARIES, EXCEPT AS SET FORTH IN
10 SUBDIVISION TWO OF THIS SECTION.
11 2. THE MAYOR, UPON A MAJORITY APPROVAL OF THE CITY COUNCIL, SHALL
12 DESIGNATE AND DIRECT A GOVERNMENT OFFICE OR AGENCY TO DEVELOP A PROCESS
13 FOR THE PROPOSED RENAMING OF ANY TRADITIONALLY RECOGNIZED NEIGHBORHOOD,
14 OR FOR THE RECONSTITUTION OF THE BOUNDARIES OF ANY SUCH NEIGHBORHOOD.
15 SUCH PROCESS SHALL REQUIRE INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY BOARD OR BOARDS
16 WHICH REPRESENT SUCH AREAS AS ESTABLISHED BY THE APPLICABLE CITY CHAR-
18 3. NO REAL ESTATE BROKER OR ANY AGENT OF A REAL ESTATE BROKER SHALL
19 MARKET, DISSEMINATE OR PROMOTE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IN ANY
20 WRITTEN OR ELECTRONIC FORM THE SALE OR RENTAL OF AN APARTMENT, HOUSE OR
21 OTHER REAL PROPERTY AS PART OF, OR LOCATED IN, A DESIGNATED NEIGHBORHOOD
22 THAT IS NOT A TRADITIONALLY RECOGNIZED NEIGHBORHOOD OR RECOGNIZED AS
23 SUCH PURSUANT TO THE PROCESS SET FORTH IN SUBDIVISION TWO OF THIS
24 SECTION. A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION SHALL SUBJECT THE REAL ESTATE
EXPLANATION--Matter in ITALICS (underscored) is new; matter in brackets
[ ] is old law to be omitted.
A. 7740 2
1 BROKER TO A MONETARY FINE, LICENSE SUSPENSION OR LICENSE REVOCATION AS
2 DETERMINED BY THE SECRETARY OF STATE PURSUANT TO SECTION FOUR HUNDRED
3 FORTY-ONE-C OF THE REAL PROPERTY LAW.
4 4. TRADITIONALLY RECOGNIZED NEIGHBORHOODS OR NEIGHBORHOOD BOUNDARIES
5 ARE THOSE OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED BY AT LEAST ONE OF THE COMMUNITY BOARDS
6 PRESENTLY ESTABLISHED BY THE APPLICABLE CITY CHARTER.
7 S 2. This act shall take effect immediately.
Nice way to pass the buck!
The bill tells Mayors that they must get the approval of their city councils.
If the city council doesn't pass such a motion (or it never reaches the floor), everyone gets to say "we tried".
I love being able to say I tried at something I knew I could not achieve.
This is populism at it's finest.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
The only way we can all be victims is if we convince ourselves we have a common enemy that can not be defeated.
Um, what about everyone who owns their building and rents it out by themselves?
Are they exempt? ...can they say they are in the adjoining neighborhood in an attempt to get more rent from their potential tenant?
What if I sell my own property?
What if I advertise a property on Mott St as being in Chinatown, instead of Little Italy?
...and my advertisement is in Mandarin?
Who has to weed thru this crap? The mayor has to create a process for a law that isn't of their making?
Unfunded, not feasible mandate that will never pass.
But those who don't know any better will love him for trying.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
I'm just glad bills must receive permission of the speaker to reach the floor, and then receive a majority of the votes in order to become law.
...even Albany is smart enough to not vote this one into law.
Despite Mr. Jeffries that assertion that realtors are the enemy because they are changing the names of neighborhoods and "redrawing traditional boundaries" (Jeffries bill) in order to deceive their customers and jack up the local rents, let's see if there are other people involved.
Exercise 1: Craigslist allows owners to list their homes for sale. With the terms "Prospect Heights" in quotes, let's look at what comes up:
Look at all of those apartments that are for sale "by owners" that are advertised as being in Prospect Heights, yet are EAST of Washington Ave...
(go on readers, you can do it!)
Hmmm, maybe the enemy is many owners, as well as realtors.
Exercise 2: Now let's talk to the residents. How many of the residents of the disputed are now call it something other than Crown Heights?
hmmmm, maybe the enemy is many owners, realtors and residents.
Exercise 3: Now let's talk to the store owners. How many of the store owners and restaurants advertise their business as being in Prospect Heights, when they are actually in Crown Heights.
hmmmm, maybe the enemy is many property owners, realtors, residents and business owners.
Exercise 4: Now let's talk to the students of Prospect Heights high school. One will note that it is in Crown Heights. They will tell you that they go to school in Prospect Heights.
hmmmm, maybe the enemy is many property owners, realtors, residents, business owners and high school students.
Exercise 5: your choiceFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
I just noticed that Prospect Heights High School, which was built in the 1920's, is on the corner of Classon and Union on the south side of Eastern Parkway; certainly not within Jeffries' definition of Prospect Heights. They'd better hurry and change the name, and be very careful about the renaming, or they are in big trouble.
I just noticed that Prospect Heights High School, which was built in the 1920's...
You neglected to mention that it *wasn't* called Prospect Heights High School when it was built in the 1920s....
it was "The Girls' Commercial High School"
big difference from your implied claim here
inpixels is correct. However, the name "Prospect Heights High School" is etched in stone above the door, my guess is, decades ago. It certainly wasn't done when the brokers began using the name ProCro. So my "implied claim" stands.
Today, a search of the term Procro on Craigslist returns only 3 ads.
The number of apartments that list Prospect Heights as their location, yet are east of Washington Ave is far larger.
Hence, I continue to encourage people who don't want to use the term Crown Heights to either use the term Crown Heights, or adapt the term FauxPro.
(I would love to be responsible for adding a term to our lexicon)For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
As if on cue, we now have a bunch of "apartment by owner" ads advertising a procro location, and none by realtors:
Jun 3 - $1900 / 2br - Small Beds, Big Yard, Big Reno's, Big Living Space - (ProCro) img apts by owner
Jun 3 - $1900 / 2br - With a Backyard as Big as this, it's no Wonder the rooms are small - (ProCro) img apts by owner
Jun 3 - $1900 / 2br - Beautiful Renovations: Check out that Back Splash - (ProCro) img apts by owner
Jun 3 - $1900 / 2br - If you can live with slightly below average sized bedrooms... - (ProCro) img apts by owner
Jun 3 - $1900 / 2br - Beautiful Backyard, Kitchen, & Living, Sub Par Bedrooms - (ProCro) img apts by owner
Even if enacted, this law would not give Jeffries his wish. ....the people he wishes to change are not the realtors, it is "humanity" as a whole.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Protip: Areas of most cities in the world are renamed over and over again. Also countries are renamed, as well as towns, villages etc...
Why is there so much concern over the newest border names here in BK? I tend to focus on my neighbors and the community, not begging moderators on a tiny website to move threads based on one avenue.
50 years from now, or even 100 yrs, we won't be here to argue about words.
You are not your city, or neighborhood. The migrations and gentrifications will occur and have occurred, since communities were formed.
Humans are a parasite, and soon to be a planet hopping parasite. Why dump passion into a never ending argument?
The tenants, realtors, landlords, lawyers, staff, and prospects who focus on the emotional charge attached to a locations name are feeding their own egos and insecurities.
Why not turn attention to the newcomers in any given location who fail to respect the community, or the natives who do the same?
Word.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
Will success spoil Crown Heights?