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Prospect Heights Elephant Walk this Monday?!

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    1. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey Circus loads into Barclays Center this Monday/Tuesday and opens next Wednesday 3/20.

      For many of the 80 years the show played Madison Square Garden, a sideshow of the main event was the spectacle of the late-night "elephant walk", where the circus' elephants were walked from the circus train - parked in Long Island City - through the Queens-Midtown tunnel, and across Manhattan to the Garden. The circus would often issue an official press release promoting the event to media in the same vein as the pre-Macy's parade balloon inflation, telling photographers where to stand to get the best photos. Free publicity for the circus - yeah!

      Now that the show has been moved to Barclays Center, I've been chasing info on how the elephants will get to - and into the Prospect Heights arena.

      The fact that Barclays sits atop the LIRR Atlantic (Vanderbilt) train yard at first makes it seem a no-brainer: Circus Train (yeah, they still travel by train!) rolls into Queens via the Hell Gate Bridge, then instead of parking in LIC, it uses an interconnect in (Woodside?) Queens to get into the LIRR system, and arrives (via Jamaica?) at Atlantic Yards in the middle of the night, lions and elephants and clowns all piling onto Barclays' below-grade event floor. In my delirious circus-flavored fever dream, anyway.

      But then you have to contemplate that when the circus played the Garden all those years - for whatever reason, the Circus Train didn't pull into a Penn Station siding and unload onto a NJ Transit or Amtrak platform; the whole menagerie ascending to the MSG event floor via a giant freight elevator. I've worked a couple events in the Garden and had all-access credentials, and there's no elephantvator. And I'm told elephants don't like / won't walk up steep grades, so a long ramp wouldn't help.

      That leads me to the remaning options:

      1. The Ringling Bros. deal was inked in 2010, when the Barclays Center was a big hole in the ground. What a great closer "we'll design in an elephant door from the LIRR rail yard" would have made - Bruce Ratner sealing the steal from the Dolans with one giant roll-up door.

      2. A three hour elephant Bataan March from Long Island City to Barclays' Dean Street truck elevators via a barricaded BQE; Tillary exit and Flatbush. Unlikely as it seems, that would be amazing.

      I've tweeted this question to the official Barclays Center, Ringling Bros, and Barclays/Nets CEO Brett Yormark's Twitter feeds and gotten nothing (Yormark is noted for quick if not entirely direct Twitter responses).

      Can any Circus freaks / railroad nerds / unemployed Brooklynian readers help get to the bottom of this before Monday night?

    2. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      I felt this post needed this photo:

      Carry on.

      Photo credit: Daily News.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    3. hamilton
      Hamilton

      rocking it
      Joined: Apr '07
      Posts: 2,073

      A friend of mine who works the desk at the Brooklyn Marriott claims he signed two of them in today ,under the names of Mr . & Mrs Smith .

      When asked was this unusual, he said they normally won't book under that name, but, did because both of them had trunks.

    4. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      The idea of a Star Trek-esqe beaming system for elephants is coming to mind.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    5. idlewild
      Idlewild

      rocking it
      Joined: Sep '05
      Posts: 2,795

      Although I'm no rail engineer, I imagine the Amtrak trains and freight cars would be too heavy for LIRR tracks. If they can even fit on those tracks at all. However, I do remember seeing MTA subway cars riding the freight car tracks down in Sunset/Gowanus.

      "Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!
    6. ribbons
      ribbons

      rookie newb
      Joined: Dec '11
      Posts: 47

      If there is an elephant walk I will push old ladies and children out of my way to get to the front row to see them.

    7. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Idlewild said:

      Although I'm no rail engineer, I imagine the Amtrak trains and freight cars would be too heavy for LIRR tracks. If they can even fit on those tracks at all.

      I'd be inclined to agree, except this (kind of awesome) NY Times article from 2007 chronicles a daily freight train run by the New York & Atlantic Railway almost entirely via LIRR tracks.

      Which keeps possibility #1 alive...

    8. xlizellx
      xlizellx

      rocking it
      Joined: Jul '08
      Posts: 1,579

      In a statement, Atlantic Yards developer Bruce Ratner sounded rather pumped: “I can’t wait to see circus elephants marching down Flatbush Avenue and into the Barclays Center."

      I want more specifics! What time?! What day?!

    9. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      Mrs. Whynot points outs that Hannibal used elephants to go over mountains as part of some invasion.

      So, apparently they are pretty durable.

      Note: Mrs. Whynot wasn't there. She reports this info from other sources.

      Link to help you pass your Sunday:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal

      Someone's version of what it may have looked like:

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    10. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Not to obsess about the Circus Train (then again, hard not to obsess about a mile-long, 60-car honest-to-goodness circus train that still exists in 2013, right?).

      Anyway, a bit deeper digging led me to this fantastic post on something called "The Long Island Railroad Today" - which walks you through how the train got from the IZOD Center in Newark last week to Nassau Coliseum (through Penn Station!). And then goes on to speculate that for Barclays, the train will (maybe) park in the Bay Ridge yard, followed by a 4.3 mile walk (!) to Prospect Heights. So the Elephant Walk may be up 4th Avenue, not Flatbush (xlizellx, I suspect the Ratner quote from 2010 was press-friendly but not based on any real plan).

      My guess is, either way, with a 7:30 pm show tonight in Hempstead - load-out is at least 10 hours for a show of that size - the move to Brooklyn by rail will likely take place on Monday afternoon, and the elephant walk (if all the speculation here pans out) probably in the wee hours of Monday night / Tuesday AM - to have everything perfect for a Wednesday debut. Again just a hunch.

      Anyway read the article here: http://thelirrtoday.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-circus-is-coming.html

    11. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Oops, this update on LIRR Today rules out the Bay Ridge to Prospect Heights March (to the tune of "Stayin' Alive"?) theory:

      http://thelirrtoday.blogspot.com/2013/03/circus-train-update.html

      And runs with a "the livestock trains will probably park in LIC again" guess - which revives my BQE Bataan March possibility (really though, would likely use Greenpoint Avenue bridge over Newtown Creek, then Franklin, Kent Ave, Flushing past the Navy Yard, and some lucky Ft. Green Avenue (something quiet like Ashland?) to the arena.

      Again, all just guesswork until someone with LIRR, Barclays, Ringling Bros - or a freight train operator - leaks it. Or they put out a press release like in the good old (2011) days...

    12. stewart
      stewart

      getting it
      Joined: Oct '08
      Posts: 133

      Also, they must have gone up a plank to get on the Ark. Frankly, I think they'll use the escalator.

    13. mamacita
      Mamacita

      Stuck in the middle with you
      Joined: Dec '06
      Posts: 9,481

      I want to see this, if anyone figures it out please post@!!

      (\__/)
      (=’.'=)
      (”)_(”)
    14. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      Mamacita-
      The animal rights folks likely know when the Elephant Walk is, and seem determined to ruin your enjoyment of the event in the name of their cause.

      https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/469028973136606/

      Please join In Defense of Animals, [http://www.idausa.org/] Animal Defenders International, [http://www.ad-international.org/adi_usa/], Long Island Orchestrating for Nature (LION) (FB.me/LIONATURE), Caring Activists Against Fur (CAAF) [http://www.caafgroup.com/] Friends of Animals United New Jersey (FAUN) (www.http://faunnj.org/), and local PETA supporters in protesting Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. [www.ringlingbeatsanimals.com] This is the first time that Ringling has performed at the new Barclays Center arena—let's show it that animal abuse is not welcome in New York!

      Please attend the huge opening night protest!

      When: Wednesday, March 20, 6–7 p.m.

      Where: In front of Barclays Center, 620 Atlantic Ave., Brooklyn, NY 11217 (See this map.) [http://goo.gl/maps/IVX0G]

      IDA Contact: Deb Robinson, circus@idausa.org or (860) 836-7761

      PETA Contact: Adam Miller at AdamM@peta.org or 323-210-2210 or on Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/adamjerk?ref=tn_tnmn]

      ADI Contact: Erika Mansourian, erikamansourian@gmail.com or 917-476-2430. please contact to RSVP and for questions.

      There will also be protests at Ringling's following performances:
      Thursday, March 21, 6–7 p.m.
      Friday, March 22, 6–7 p.m.
      Tuesday, March 26, 1–2 p.m.
      Wednesday, March 27, 1–2 p.m.
      Thursday, March 28, 6–7 p.m.
      Friday, March 29, 1–2 p.m. and 6-7:30 p.m.
      Saturday. March 30, 2-3:30 p.m. and 6-7:30 p.m
      Sunday, March 31, 6-7:30 p.m
      Monday, April 1, 12-1 p.m. and 4–5 p.m.

      Where: In front of Barclays Center, 620 Atlantic Ave., Brooklyn, NY 11217 (See this map.) [http://goo.gl/maps/IVX0G]

      PETA Contact: Adam Miller at AdamM@peta.org or 323-210-2210 or on Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/adamjerk?ref=tn_tnmn]

      ADI Contact: Erika Mansourian, erikamansourian@gmail.com or 917-476-2430. please contact to RSVP and for questions.

      IDA Contact: Deb Robinson, circus@idausa.org or (860) 836-7761

      Please attend these protests if possible. However, Ringling has more performances scheduled. Please contact AdamM@peta.org if you can commit to another day and time. Please see the schedule of performances here. [http://www.ringling.com/TourSchedule.aspx?action=marketsearch&marketId=979]

      Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus is known for its long history of abusing animals. In 1929, John Ringling ordered the execution of a majestic bull elephant named Black Diamond after the elephant killed a woman who had been in the crowd as he was paraded through a Texas city. Twenty men took aim and pumped some 170 bullets into Black Diamond's body and then chopped off his bullet-ridden head and mounted it for display in Houston. Ringling Bros.' cruel treatment of animals continues today.

      Elephants in Ringling's possession are chained inside filthy, poorly ventilated boxcars for an average of more than 26 hours straight—and up to 100 hours at a time—when the circus travels. Even former Ringling employees have reported that elephants are routinely abused and violently beaten with bullhooks (weapons that resemble a fireplace poker) in order to force them to perform tricks.

      To learn more about Ringling's lengthy history of abusing animals, check out PETA's factsheet. [http://circuses.com/pdfs/RinglingHiddenTruthFSetc.pdf]

      All posters and leaflets will be provided. Please dress conservatively to avoid distracting from our message and note that reserved parking will not be available. If this is your first time attending an outreach event, please read PETA's tips for attending a demonstration. [http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/PDF/tips_for_PETA_activists.pdf]

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    15. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Perhaps this explains why nobody is responding to requests for details on the load-in timing and route...

      Interesting that there was no secrecy surrounding MSG's elephant walk in years' past.

      From 2010 via mta.info: http://new.mta.info/circus-elephants-annual-walk-through-queens-midtown-tunnel

    16. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Aptly-named Animal New York has a comment from Barclays saying "no elephant walk this year" - and implying the animals will be trucked to the arena - possibly to minimize visibility and interaction with PETA or other animal rights activists:

      http://animalnewyork.com/2013/therell-be-no-elephant-walk-for-this-years-ringling-brothers-circus/

    17. mamacita
      Mamacita

      Stuck in the middle with you
      Joined: Dec '06
      Posts: 9,481

      Is this a good time to throw in a rage face meme??

      (\__/)
      (=’.'=)
      (”)_(”)
    18. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      It seems an Elephant Dance Party will be held on Wednesday.

      http://gothamist.com/2013/03/18/elephant_dance_party_this_wednesday.php

      Needless to say, Marty Markowitz will be there too.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    19. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      Interesting that Gothamist seems to have been given an exclusive on this story by Markowitz / Ringling / Barclays...every mention of the "Elephant Dance Party" cites the Gothamist piece as its source. No press release on the Borough Prez's website.

      This still leaves open the original "but how will they get there?" question...

    20. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      Despite the idealized images of trains and walking around while holding the tail of your elephant friend, I suspect the elephants actually spend lots of quality time being hauled around by tractor trailers.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    21. the collection next door
      the collection next door

      rookie newb
      Joined: May '08
      Posts: 21

      http://gothamist.com/2009/07/22/peta_has_video_of_ringling_bros_bea.php

      "This summer expects to finally see a verdict in a lawsuit filed against Ringling, which centers around the circus's use of steel-barbed bullhooks, electric prods, and shackles on the elephants. PETA's new footage also shows abuse to the circus's tigers. They say workers struck animals on the head, face, ears, legs, and other parts of their bodies with bullhooks and other abusive handling tools. "The unit's animal superintendant and head elephant trainer were among those who used bullhooks—sharp, fireplace pokerlike devices—to hook and yank elephants by their sensitive skin." Their skin, by the way, is as sensitive as human's."

      let's all go out and gawk! what a tonic!

    22. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      Only uses humans:

      http://www.cirquedusoleil.com/en/welcome.aspx

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    23. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      The LIRR Today blog recaps how the circus train actually moved (passenger cars to NJ via Penn Station, and freight cars to LIC - where apparently the animals were transferred to trucks and taken to Barclays): http://thelirrtoday.blogspot.com/2013/03/circus-train-recap.html

      That leaves the "Elephant Dance Party" in Dumbo at 11 am Wednesday - which seems a bit dubious given all the animal rights protest buzz (see above in this thread). The "elephant walk" was always a middle-of-the-night, practical reality of getting the big animals from LIC to MSG - a fun but utility move (made necessary because the Midtown Tunnel's max height excludes 13' 6" semi trailers??). Dragging the elephants to Dumbo for an "under the iconically-Brooklyn" Bridge is a great photo op for Marty Markowitz but seems unnecessary - and ripe for a big protest...

    24. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
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      I predict protesters will not be allowed in the immediate area, so the event can go undisturbed.

      I predict protesters will be too dim to dress "normal", thus allowing the NYPD to effectively And easily screen them out.

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    25. whynot_31
      whynot_31

      Former Lurker
      Joined: Mar '06
      Posts: 16,048

      Press on how it went:

      http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130320/dumbo/dancing-circus-elephants-draw-cheers-protest-under-brooklyn-bridge

      For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
    26. notsayin
      notsayin

      getting it
      Joined: May '10
      Posts: 115

      So after all that speculation, NY Times ran a piece last Thursday that pretty much answers all the questions:

      - Elephants were TRUCKED in from the train - from New Jersey

      - I was right (to some extent) that Ringling Bros got Ratner/Barclays to modify a bunch of arena physical elements in 2010 to facilitate the circus logistics (sadly, not an elephant door from the LIRR platform though

      Best part of the article btw:

      Emerging from the elevators the elephants crossed a huge turntable — akin to a locomotive roundhouse — on the way to their new stalls. “They were very cautious,” said Brian French, a seventh-generation circus man who is the show’s elephant manager.

      Mr. French said that some of the eight — all females (circus folk call them “girls”) — are in their late 50s and have been in more than 100 arenas, some of which no longer exist.

      “Their memories are so phenomenal that they remember the layouts of every one of them,” he said. “But Barclays is all new, and they were nervous.”

      So they sniffed everything with their trunks. They stepped cautiously. They adjusted to new sights, sounds and activity. And after a few minutes, ruminantly munching hay, they became settled new Brooklyn residents.

    27. mamacita
      Mamacita

      Stuck in the middle with you
      Joined: Dec '06
      Posts: 9,481

      They adjusted to new sights, sounds and activity. And after a few minutes, ruminantly munching hay, they became settled new Brooklyn residents.

      (\__/)
      (=’.'=)
      (”)_(”)
    28. caseopele
      caseopele

      Custom Freaking Title
      Joined: Nov '06
      Posts: 1,979


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