Speak up for residential parking permits around the arena

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Speak up for residential parking permits around the arena

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danaeo
getting it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 128

Help support residential permit parking in central Brooklyn!
State legislation required to limit demand for car travel to Barclays Center

What: Hearing of the New York City Council Committee on State and Federal Legislation
When: Wednesday, 11/2 at 10:30AM
Where: 250 Broadway, 14th Floor

According to the Empire State Development Corporation, when the Barclays Center opens in September 2012, an expected 35-40% of arena patrons will arrive for events by car1. That means as many as 6,100 cars travelling to the site2 for each of the more than 200 events3 anticipated to be held each year. This barrage of traffic is expected to cause significant delays at more than half of the intersections within a half mile of the arena4. It will add to the vehicular, pedestrian and bicycle accidents that have already make Atlantic Avenue Brooklyn's most dangerous road. And it will result in up to 3,000 arena patrons taking curbside parking spots5 in Park Slope, Boerum Hill, Fort Greene, and Prospect Heights, clogging already-congested residential side streets.

Among all of the impacts to neighborhood character and quality of life that will come from locating Atlantic Yards' arena within residential communities, none are of greater consequence to more residents than the traffic generated by arena events. But there is a way to reduce the demand for our local streets. It's called "residential permit parking," or RPP, and it's been effective in other cities, like Boston and Chicago, where sports facilities are located in densely-populated areas. By limiting on-street parking during arena events to local residents, RPP will create a disincentive for arena patrons to drive, reducing congestion and making streets safer.

New York City requires authorization from the State legislature before it can implement RPP. On Wednesday, 11/2 at 10:30AM, the City Council will hear testimony on legislation authorizing the City to enact residential permit parking programs in the five boroughs. The BrooklynSpeaks sponsors urge you to participate in this critical hearing and make your voice heard.

Please email us with your plans to attend and interest in testifying, and thanks for speaking up!

1. Atlantic Yards Final Environmental Impact Statement, table 12-10.
2. FEIS, table 12-11.
3. FEIS, page S-2.
4. FEIS, page 12-3
5. FEIS, page 12-56.

BrooklynSpeaks | http://www.brooklynspeaks.net
The Atlantic Avenue Local Development Corporation | The Boerum Hill Association | The Brooklyn Heights Association | The Congress for New Urbanism (New York Chapter) | The Fifth Avenue Committee | The Park Slope Civic Council | The Pratt Area Community Council | The Prospect Heights Neighborhood Development Council | Tri State Transportation Campaign

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# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

I fear this will be defeated by the same logic that defeated congestion pricing (aka East River tolls):

"Thou shall allow no law that allows New York City to obtain revenue from those who live outside its borders"

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,206

WN, you may be correct about the fate of the current proposal, but I question your assumption that congestion pricing was opposed solely by those who live outside of the 5 boroughs. Believe it or not, some NYC outer borough residents do have cars, and object to being charged for entry into the sacred precincts of Manhattan.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

Will you accept this clarification?

"Thou shall allow no law that allows a New York City borough or neighborhood to obtain revenue from those who live outside its borders"

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,206

Much better!

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

I'm of the opinion that no debate is complete is without inflammatory rhetoric.

Do you think those who support the permits will refer to themselves as Prospect Heights Patriots?

...while those opposed to the permits will derisively refer to them as the Prospect Heights Nativists?

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
danaeo
getting it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 128

Not sure how RPP would violate that tenet.

This isn't about charging a fee to people from outside NYC, but it is about limiting on street parking to only residents/businesses owners in the neighborhood during arena events. Otherwise, we'll have thousands of cars circling around looking for on street parking 220+ days of the year. And during the circus and ice shows, it'll be 3x a day.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

By denying out of neighborhood people (hereafter referred to as "invading infidels") the ability to park free on the street, this proposal will effectively force them to pay a fee to park in the lot, or ride public transit with unwashed people like myself.

While RPP may be what should happen, do not under estimate the power of the invading infidels.

I wish you well, Prospect Height Patriot. May those who believe in God, think that s/he is on your side.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
Idlewild
rocking it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 2,749

If anything, Ratner should support it so as to fill his Mother of All Parking Lots. Which in turn, will put money in his pocket, and pocket change in the City's & State's coffers.

"Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

....supporting the permits would be consistent with Ratner's mantra:

"If you give me what I want now, I will promise to give you a crumb at some date that is always in the future"

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
Brooklynviews
what am I, new?
Joined: Oct '11
Posts: 1

Actually, the problem is that the City currently lacks the ability to “pass, enforce or maintain any ordinance, rule or regulation requiring from any owner of a motor vehicle or motorcycle . . . any . . . fee . . . for the use of the public highways.” (see http://www.dartmouthlawjournal.org/articles/88-105.pdf
). It's not at all about who lives where, it's just the history of who has the authority.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

I do love posters who link law journals on their first post!

...I do hate that this authority resides with Albany, regardless of the logic they use as they exercise it.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
danaeo
getting it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 128

That's what the public hearing is about. The city council is deciding if they will ask Albany to grant them the authority to have permit parking regulations on NYC streets. This is, in City Council parlance, a "home rule message." Then the state legislature needs to pass a bill allowing it to happen.

# Posted 6 mos ago
dailyheights
Honorary Fellow
Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 4,608

stickied by request.

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# Posted 6 mos ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,206

I love the idea of keeping parking spaces in my neighborhood reserved for neighborhood residents... but I hate the idea that I might not be able to park... except at meters... in other, nearby neighborhoods. So I suppose it comes down to how the regs are written, i.e. are permits issued inly to residents of a given block, a given neighborhood (and how the boundaries of each neighborhood are defined), a given borough, etc.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

This proposal is an effort by my car owning neighbors to prevent parking and street traffic from getting even worse.

While these goals are admirable, I wonder what is the maximum amount people would be willing to pay for a permit?

I.E. If I was wealthy, I would want the permits to be so expensive and so restrictive that (in addition to thwarting the invading infidels) a lot of my neighbors would get rid of their cars. This way, I could always be assured of finding a spot on my block.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
booklaw
admin
Joined: Nov '07
Posts: 2,206

The wealthy don't need such mechanisms. They keep their cars in garages.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

true, but garages are not always plentiful or convenient. While not adjacent to the arena, the permit system could be sought out by communities wherein this is a problem; Brooklyn Heights comes to mind...

On the other hand, perhaps the battle may not be between the wealthy and other car owners but instead the primary actor is the city government.

In an attempt to soak the "rich car owners", the voters of the city could play Robin Hood and cause the government to use its newly granted authority to tax on-street parking by huge amounts in other neighborhoods. The costs of garages would naturally follow suit.

If this scenario took place, today's Neighborhood Patriots could be unwittingly offering up themselves as an easily taxed target.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 2,807

I lived in a city that had a residental parking system and I found that while it was great for homeowners, it sucked for many people (including myself). For example, there was a limit on the number of permits that could be issued to each resdence. Single-family homes were allowed two permits. Multi-family residences were permitted a greater number, but it was very possible that, for example, if you were living in an apartment building where there were three people sharing an apartment with one name on the lease, you'd only be eligible for one residential permit.

As someone pointed out above, what residental parking did, was guarantee everyone a spot in their own neighborhood. However, it also meant the odds of you finding a spot outside of your neighborhood was very slim. Any time you wanted to travel to another part of town and you knew you'd be gone for several hours, you had to worry about finding a meter, or contend with moving your car every hour to a new parking spot.

What I'm really offended by is the fact that not only is Ratner causing all this, but he's singlehandedly going to benefit because he owns all of the nearby parking garages. The overhead on the parking business is extremely low, and its one of those businesses, that has a really high return on investment, especially in NYC.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

Arlington VA has a street parking permit system which prevents it from being over run by Metro seeking commuters.

However, they also have a thing called Flexpass.

The free FlexPass is a dashboard placard which can be used either for a household's own vehicle or for a guest's vehicle. The FlexPass is specific to the household and displays the zone number and household address.

http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/EnvironmentalServices/dot/traffic/parking/EnvironmentalServicesZone.aspx

A friend of mine lives in Arlington and, every year, makes a chunk of $$ by selling her annual Flexpass via Craigslist.

If this program passes, I hope it provides Prospect Heights residents with a similar opportunity. I will do the same thing as my friend.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

Brownstoner chatter:

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2011/10/a-push-for-residential-permit-parking-near-the-arena/#disqus_thread

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
BKChickie
Bagel Hole Girl
Joined: Mar '08
Posts: 980

whynot_31 said:
Arlington VA has a street parking permit system which prevents it from being over run by Metro seeking commuters.

However, they also have a thing called Flexpass.

The free FlexPass is a dashboard placard which can be used either for a household's own vehicle or for a guest's vehicle. The FlexPass is specific to the household and displays the zone number and household address.

http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/EnvironmentalServices/dot/traffic/parking/EnvironmentalServicesZone.aspx

A friend of mine lives in Arlington and, every year, makes a chunk of $$ by selling her annual Flexpass via Craigslist.

If this program passes, I hope it provides Prospect Heights residents with a similar opportunity. I will do the same thing as my friend.

Whynot, I like that idea. We're not car owners, but we do have guests visit us who are. I would support a system that allowed for guest passes, or for the parking permit to be transferable.

I'm not sure that this program will "guarantee" that every car owner gets a spot in the neighborhood, like someone wrote above. I lived in Boston, and there was some insane statistic that there were six cars for every one resident parking space in some neighborhoods.

Now, that said, if this were a non-permanently mounted permit, like a placard instead of a sticker, the cynic in me would be worried about people smashing my window to steal the placard. I would especially worry if there were a secondary market in the passes, like in Arlington. In Boston there was at least one neighborhood (North End) where windows were being smashed to get at the resident permits (these were stickers attached to the glass, not just placed on the dashboard.)

So, there would have to be some kind of online system (like with a MetroCard) where a stolen placard could be immediately invalidated. Maybe the permits could have barcodes, and meter-maids could be equipped with a barcode scanner.

# Posted 6 mos ago
danaeo
getting it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 128

# Posted 6 mos ago
danaeo
getting it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 128

A petition has been started in case you can't make it to the hearing. You can also add your own testimony to it. Here's the petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/rpp4nyc/petition.html

# Posted 6 mos ago
stacey
rocking it
Joined: Mar '05
Posts: 3,474

As long as I don't have to pay extra for the permits, I think this is a great idea. I also think for this to work they need to cut down alternate side to just one or two days a weeks.

# Posted 6 mos ago
OpossumQueen
rocking it
Joined: Aug '07
Posts: 2,408

Okay, I haven't read all of the comments but I have a question. They were allowed to build that giant arena and screw up traffic around there and it doesn't have tons of parking as part of the plan?

I have one solution. Ikea has a ridiculous amount of parking (granted I don't go on weekends but on weekdays about 5% of it seems to be used). Maybe they could rent out spots or let people park for free and then have shuttle busses that charge a fee to take people to/from the arena. Save the section by the entrance/exit for customers and then rent out the rest. I know there are problems with this plan but I wish we could find a way to avoid some of the chaos this arena is going to bring.

I used to live 2 miles from such a stadium in another state and big events were such a problem (cars parking illegally/blocking driveways, etc. and the noise from the event goers that we usually just left the area before the masses headed in. I'm sad that we might experience that here.

# Posted 6 mos ago
danaeo
getting it
Joined: Sep '05
Posts: 128

The project sponsors own environmental impact study says that there is sufficient off-street paid parking (between what they will build and what exists already)to accommodate the 6000 cars coming to the arena. But they also admit that about 3000 arena patrons will park take on street parking spots that are available during rush hour. What they don't say is that people in the neighborhood use those 3000 on-street spots.

Forest City Ratner's traffic consultants are expected to announce a demand management plan next year, which should include satellite parking as described above. They also acknowledge that it won't be up to full capacity because it's not the preferred option for drivers.

Arena patrons will opt to use satellite parking and public transportation only if we reduce the supply of free on street parking.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

Ronkonkoma has a huge garage right by the train station. Let's tell them to park there, and run shuttle trains.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 2,807

Am I the only one that thinks folks will drive from NJ to the new stadium no matter what as the commutation options to NJ from Broklyn are so onerous? Residential parking permits are only going to harm those of us that live here, not everyone else.

Nets season ticket holders aren't considering NYC mass transit as a viable alternative. The only folks you'll get using that are "new" fans, not existing season ticket holders.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

My existing shuttle train from Ronkonkoma makes sense for one person, but not four.

I'm not sports fan, but I believe people usually attend events at an arena with friends. Let's assume I have 3 male friends, each of whom live with their wives.

Let's say I live in Ronkonkoma.

Let's suppose the roundtrip LIRR fare for each passenger is something like $35, and parking in Ronkonkoma is $10. If four of us go, our fares are (35 x 4) $150, and we each pay $10 to park 150 + 40 = 190.

But if we drove, r/t gas would be about $30. We'd have about $160 to spend on parking.

In this situation, lots of people are going to drive.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
BKChickie
Bagel Hole Girl
Joined: Mar '08
Posts: 980

homeowner said:
Am I the only one that thinks folks will drive from NJ to the new stadium no matter what as the commutation options to NJ from Broklyn are so onerous?

You're probably right. I actually hadn't been too worried about traffic from the stadium. I'd just assumed (maybe wrongly) that people would come in on the BQE, head down Atlantic, and park their car in a garage--no matter what the cost. I didn't think PH would have to worry too much about the traffic and parking impacts of the stadium because everyone would stay on Atlantic and wouldn't dare venture into the neighborhoods for fear of their safety.

# Posted 6 mos ago
jeffrey
is not in right now
Joined: Feb '07
Posts: 4,066

Just a reminder for anyone interested that the hearing is this morning at 10:30am as per the original post here:

danaeo said:
Help support residential permit parking in central Brooklyn!
State legislation required to limit demand for car travel to Barclays Center

What: Hearing of the New York City Council Committee on State and Federal Legislation
When: Wednesday, 11/2 at 10:30AM
Where: 250 Broadway, 14th Floor

i extend my battery life by turning down the brightness

# Posted 6 mos ago
dailyheights
Honorary Fellow
Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 4,608

unsticking now that the meeting is over.

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# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

The meeting resulted in the city people requesting that the state people consider giving the city "Home Rule" on parking permits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/03/nyregion/council-to-vote-on-plan-for-residents-parking-permits.html?_r=2&ref=nyregion

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
armchair_warrior
retsop cixelsyd
Joined: Dec '05
Posts: 7,625

they should do it to the city as a whole, other wise would be pointless. plus they can make some money out of it too. none residential permits should cost like few k more.

too many new yorkers have cabins or bungalows in upstate ny. where they get super cheap insurance for their cars. others have relatives in Florida or south Carolina or some other states.

Fight white guilt and injustice by smoking tax free guilt free Reservation Smokes or go gamble in a Native Casino.
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# Posted 6 mos ago
vidro3
running you over with my bike
Joined: Feb '08
Posts: 1,484

I doubt many people will drive, even from Jersey.
Everybody knows it is going to be a clusterfuck traffic wise.
it might take 2-3 games before those people who do drive there realize that it is pretty stupid.

PATH to the B/D at w4th street is not a particularly onerous commute. I know people who do that commute everyday. They live in Hoboken, work in park slope.
Fans have also managed to do the trip in the other direction during Red Bulls games, which has a higher capacity than the Barclays Center. Red Bulls average attendance this year was higher than Barclays Center capacity. They don't have significantly more parking than the nets arena will have.

RPPs are not necessarily bad. The devil is in the details as they say; it depends what the exact parameters of the plan are.

If getting a permit is tied to having your car registered in the city it will definitely reduce the number of cars out there as many people won't be able to afford the higher insurance rates.

If the plan increases the chances of getting a spot in your neighborhood it may actually encourage people to drive more within and between the boroughs since you know you have a space to come home to. Or at least a better shot at one.

# Posted 6 mos ago
whynot_31
Former Lurker
Joined: Mar '06
Posts: 12,773

I can't imagine that the RPP would be so strict that it would increase the amount of parking available beyond the pre-arena period.

In other words, I think the most local car owners could hope from this plan is that parking remains as difficult as it is now.

I am told one can respect the beliefs of others, without ratifying them.

# Posted 6 mos ago
vidro3
running you over with my bike
Joined: Feb '08
Posts: 1,484

well if it is something like a "parking curfew" where after say 10pm all non RPP cars get a ticket that could be an improvement over the status quo

# Posted 6 mos ago
homeowner
mod
Joined: Jan '06
Posts: 2,807

vidro3 said:
I doubt many people will drive, even from Jersey.
Everybody knows it is going to be a clusterfuck traffic wise.
it might take 2-3 games before those people who do drive there realize that it is pretty stupid.

PATH to the B/D at w4th street is not a particularly onerous commute. I know people who do that commute everyday. They live in Hoboken, work in park slope.
Fans have also managed to do the trip in the other direction during Red Bulls games, which has a higher capacity than the Barclays Center. Red Bulls average attendance this year was higher than Barclays Center capacity. They don't have significantly more parking than the nets arena will have.

If you are a current Nets season ticket holder that lives in Newark, Hoboken or Jersey City, the commute to Brooklyn via public transit is not that bad. However, I'm willing to bet that the distribution of season ticket holders probably encompasses more folks from places like Summit, Westfield, Ho-Ho-Kus, and Montclair. Those locales don't have easy PATH to NYC transit options but instead require NJ transit trains into Penn Station or buses into Port Authority. How many people are going to take even a 30 minute ride into the city, then do a 30-45 minute subway ride? Especially when commuter trains and buses are running every 45 minutes or hour at night?

# Posted 6 mos ago
vidro3
running you over with my bike
Joined: Feb '08
Posts: 1,484

how many of those people from hohokus and such already take NJ transit into manhattan for work?
probably lots.

# Posted 6 mos ago