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According to a report on CBS radio this morning the bike share program that was supposed to start in March may be delayed as all 10,000 bikes that were stored at the Navy yard were under water. The damage is being evaluated.
Brooklynian » Forum » The Lounge / Random Stuff »
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While I am pro-bikeshare, I have this fear that it will result in the needless deaths of lots of European tourists who expect NYC drivers to be similar to those of Europe's.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
London and D.C. have found that the bike share crash rate is lower than the overall bike crash rate.
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That is encouraging.
...dead tourists are bad for business.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
But there's always a lot of onlookers and they buy stuff from the hotdog guys in the area so this could be a blow to the local economy. By the way, years ago I was in Amsterdam and those people ride just as crazily as they do here. And there's so many of them that it's tough to walk around. I think they fear trolleys more than motor vehicles.
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It should be interesting to see whether the bike share program escalates the present war between bikers and pedestrians.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
I wonder if the bikes were insured for flood damage or if they can be repaired without rusting. I doubt Citibank will donate another 10,000.
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Most modern bikes are built from metals that don't rust.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
The frames I'm sure won't. But sometimes the spokes, axles and the bearings in the pedals do.
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After a while, they do.
I'd be interested in seeing if it is truly the bikes that were damaged, because they are meant to be rented and returned at outisde locations.
Maybe the machinery that was going to release/lock the bikes was damaged?
I am looking forward to this program.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
The docking stations have electronic components and they were what was damaged. There may also have been damage to the kisoks. From the information in the Times article it seems like the bikes made it through okay.
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Boston's Bike Share program is popular:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2012/12/02/hubway-eclipses-rides-closes-for-winter/m6wN00i7CxEqF7lzhhnLxJ/story.htmlFor better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Heard a report on CBS radio over the weekend that the bike share should be up and running by May. The machines have to have all the electronics checked as much of that got flooded. They're planning to start with 5500 bikes instead of the 10,000 originally planned.
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The culture chnage that comes from the sudden onset of this many bikes has been interesting to watch.
The car drivers and bikers battle each other.
The pedestrians and bikers battle each other.
If the bikers can convince pedestrians that the city has gotten nicer as a result of increased biking they will win the day.
If not, this program will be short lived.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
If bikers actually start watching out for pedestrians that may happen. But most of them don't give a crap and what's even worse is the clowns who are now riding the electric scooters. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take before a biker will have to start carrying insurance in the case of accident.
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PG-
Requiring insurance of bikers seems very difficult to effectively implement.On rare occasions, bikers are prosecuted criminally, such as this one that was charged with manslaughter:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303410404577466990820318610.html
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Yes, I agree but there is insurance for Segways so I don't know if it can't be done but I imagine the premiums would be so low that it wouldn't be worthwhile. As an insurance broker I suspect that a biker would be covered under the personal liability portion of their homeowners'/renters' insurance.
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Ah, but (as you are aware) many people do not have such insurance. If they are broke, when they crash into someone, the larger society has to eat the bill.
...I do wonder what insurance the bike share company itself will carry:
If someone rents a bike with faulty brakes and ends up not being able to stop, the bus kills them, and their family sues the bike rental company. ....will the rental company be adequately covered?
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
May 2013 is fast approaching.
here's where the stations are supposed to be:
http://a841-tfpweb.nyc.gov/bikeshare/station-map/
here are details about this adventure:
http://a841-tfpweb.nyc.gov/bikeshare/...this rollout should be interesting to watch.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
And, off we go!
In this instance, they are putting the bikeshare dock on the street, where cars used to park:
http://transportationnation.org/2013/04/08/nyc-starts-placing-bike-share-docks/
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Memberships are being sold:
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
$95 gets you 45 minutes on a bike? Granted you can use it multiple times a day. But still, it just seems like going out and buying a bike makes better sense.
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I'm wondering what the vandalism rate is going to be. After dark, there will be few people around and I'm thinking if too many people can't park there's going to be a lot of slashed tires. What if you get to a dock and there's no working bikes. How long will it take to be fixed? I'm sure they have this planned out but then again, who knows.
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For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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Well, it's informative but it still doesn't bring up the question of vandalism. In addition, I see that a few docks are going to be placed on the sidewalk so, how does that work out for the homeowner/storeowner whose property it's in front of. Are they also going to have to clear the sidewalk around it from garbage, snow, etc. Does it become a liability issue if someone trips over a bike in front of their property? Lots of questions remain unanswered in my mind but then, like I said, I'm sure they have it all figured out.
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You are more sure than I am.
I think they will figure out as it goes along.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Well, maybe I'm a just "glass is always half full" kinda guy....as Pragmatic as I am.
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newguy88 said:
$95 gets you 45 minutes on a bike? Granted you can use it multiple times a day. But still, it just seems like going out and buying a bike makes better sense.There seems to be lots of interest, despite the price:
DOT » The NYC Department of Transportation and NYC Bike Share announced that the first 5,000 annual Citi Bike memberships were sold by 3:30 P.M. this afternoon. “New Yorkers are clearly ready to take advantage of the quick, convenient travel our bike share program will provide. It’s a strong early sign of success,” said New York City Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan.
Annual memberships remain available by a simple visit to http://www.citibikenyc.com and all New Yorkers are encouraged to sign up for this fast and safe transportation option.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Think about it this way, if you live less than 45 minutes away from work by bike, and have kiosks near home and work, you could commute every day for $95 per year. Even if you only bike May-October, its cheaper than riding the subway.
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I'd factor in some overtime costs.
http://www.citibikenyc.com/pricing
...but, yea, it is going to be very popular. I think not having to find safe parking for your bike, or drag it into your office, is one the main attractions.
Others will absolutely hate it.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
This guy is annoyed that a dock is taking up a spot in front of his store.
I expect we will see a lot of this as time goes on.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bicycles_tough_sit_DYOkQaV61f5Hv5AuWpIHtM
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
....and, so it begins. The backlash against bike share.
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/04/bike-share-stations-vandalized-meeting-set/#disqus_thread
This is the just the beginning of an epic show.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Gee, I thought I predicted something like this would happen last week. Unfortunately it came true. But, I would think this would all go away if the people that were affected would be offered something....cash bribes came to mind. But seriously, I suspect that the people in charge of the bike share program thought that this would be God's gift to the people that wanted it not realizing that there would be just as many that don't and the indifferent ones outnumbering both.
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Actually, they knew that there would be lots of objections, and that (no matter how many hearings, press and notices you provide...) a significant percent of people usually wait until it is rolled out to get vocal and/or begin understand its full impact.
Bike share will prevail, but no one on the team thinks that everyone likes them.
They are completely aware that people hate change, and rebel anytime they perceive they perceives "others" exerting control over what they feel is "their" environment.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Who uses these things in the other cities where they're successful?
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Here's a demographic study of Washington DC's bikeshare program:
http://docs.trb.org/prp/13-5029.pdf
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
I don't think it's that people hate change. I think people don't like their "territory" taken over. To wit, sidewalks, parking spaces in front of houses, businesses, etc. So, this seems like more of a turf fight than one of getting rid of the bikes per se.
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It is both.
...a big part of the turf fight is that they believe that their present customers and neighbors won't be among those using the service.
Time will tell if they are right.
Even if they end up being right, it remains to be seen whether the forces against bikeshare will gain the power required to have it retracted.
Hence, the bikeshare advocates want this to be really popular, really fast.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Since it's sponsored by Citicorp who I suspect has more money and clout than those against it, I should think that Bikeshare shall become "too big to fail."
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It is great advertising for Citicorp.
Not only does it put their name in wealthy neighborhoods, it puts them in contact with people in their 20s - 40s in those very neighborhoods.
Genius.
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
I hate this idea that the street, sidewalk and parking spaces are "their territory." Technically it's city property and it belongs to all of us who pay taxes.PragmaticGuy said:
I don't think it's that people hate change. I think people don't like their "territory" taken over. To wit, sidewalks, parking spaces in front of houses, businesses, etc. So, this seems like more of a turf fight than one of getting rid of the bikes per se.
As for the corrals being ugly and not fitting in with the neighborhood Street Blog put it best. http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/04/22/speak-up-if-you-think-bike-share-belongs-in-fort-greene-and-clinton-hill/
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The pace picks up...
Transportation Alternatives »
DEFEND BIKE SHARE IN FT. GREENE & CLINTON HILL
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 6:30pm to 8:30pmDo you live in Ft. Greene or Clinton Hill? If so, RSVP to this urgent Town Hall Meeting to defend Citi Bike in your neighborhood.
Thanks to your vocal, outspoken support for the last two years -- Citi Bike, New York City’s new bike share program – is blooming on street corners in your neighborhood. You have probably noticed new stations near your house or your favorite local businesses.
As exciting as this is, the sad truth is that Citi Bike is under attack in your neighborhood. Right now, a vocal minority of residents in your district are putting pressure on Council Member Letitia James to remove Citi Bike docking stations. These residents say the sidewalk outside or the parking spot near their front door isn’t public property. They say, “It’s mine.”
You know how much your neighborhood will benefit from a public bike share program like Citi Bike. You know sidewalks and parking spaces are shared, public spaces, to benefit everyone. Will you speak up?
Attend the Public Meeting about Bike Share in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill and help us pack the room with vocal supporters of bike share in your neighborhood. Be sure to bring your neighbors who can’t wait for bike share to begin. We will send you some facts about Citi Bike and the extensive community process that made it possible if you RSVP.
Save the date and spread the word. Bike share in Ft. Greene & Clinton Hill depends on your participation on Wednesday night!
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
As I stated, nothing more than a turf war. But as silly as it sounds on the face of it, this is the way most people feel. Especially if people unfamiliar to them start showing up at all hours of the day and night to get or return their bikes. There will be many battles but I think Bikeshare will win the war. Besides, people have to exercise more since they're still allowed to buy those 32 oz sugary drinks.
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Did anyone go to the Tish James meeting at Banneker last night? Any reports? I didn't realize it was going to be a refereed bickering match, so I'm glad I didn't go, but I would very much like to hear whether the opponents got slapped down. (I don't tune in to the daily politics of this stuff.)
Just reading through old posts on this and other threads, I am disappointed but not surprised to read the same old knee-jerk reactions to this concept that crop up in every single other implementation. I've used the bike share in Montreal, Paris, DC, and Denver, and I just can't overstate what a massive quality of life improvement this thing is. Let me count the ways.
First, when you put this in the context of other public transportation (which is what it is), it is a steal. Basically, if you are riding anywhere within the perimeter of the docking station coverage, you should have no problem finding a station at which to check in and extend your time. If you have the annual subscription, you have 45 minutes to find one of the stations that will be on practically every other block (and the penalty is only $2 if you screw that up). How much is a monthly subway pass again?
So it's much cheaper than other public transportation, but serves the exact same function. This is not primarily for friends who want to take laps around the park with you. It's for people who want to ride to work but can't park their bikes in/near the office (yes, it may be tricky to find bikes to take and spaces to park on major commuter routes); for people who want to ride over to a friend's house and go out from there; for people who need to schlep some stuff farther than they care to walk...in other words, similar to the reasons you take the subway or bus. I have a bike and will be signing up for Citibike, but not so bikeless friends can use it -- they can sign up for a daily/weekly pass.
Third, NYC is lucky to be getting the Bixi-style (same as Montreal & DC) bikes as opposed to the B-Cycles that are in Denver and other cities. The Bixi bikes are more comfortable, compact, and nimble, so they're safer to ride. They're also more cleverly designed, particularly the "baskets," which hold smaller loads but do a better job with their bungee cord straps. The B-Cycles have huge baskets over the front wheel, which makes them very clunky and unstable.
The last thing I'll say is, with regard to Citi's logo being plastered all over the place, I hear you. Fuck Citi. But there are more clever ways to protest than covering up the instructions on how to use the bikes (is your money in a credit union?). Way to be community minded. The fact is, this project is just not possible without major investment, and the city is unwilling to put all of it up. From what I can tell, the reason cities go with B-Cycle is that they can't get that investment. Instead, they rely on large property owners to sponsor stations, so outside the core business district (using Denver as an example) you end up with stations limited to transit hubs, big retailers (e.g., REI), and places like hospitals, which are totally inconvenient. It makes the system incoherent and takes away from the "public" aspect of the transportation.
I wish I understood the psychology of these residents who want to resist any change and set themselves up to get shafted. Not only is it coming, it's a good thing and you actually don't want to be left out. Get in front of it and try to steer it to your maximum benefit. Pick a real battle, like school privatization. Christ.
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Hambone,
Well stated. However, I suspect that many of the people who are into protecting their landmarked districts were able to sent their kids to good schools. Hence, school privitization isn't something that is of much concern.
<-- fans flames
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Ok, pick another issue worth caring about, or is the point that these morons actually don't give a shit about anything that matters?
I wish I had seen this before I posted, it would have saved me some time:
Noisy bike share stations with their corporate advertising will ruin the character of my landmarked neighborhood.
No, you're ruining the character of your landmarked neighborhood by being a douchebag. Your landmarked neighborhood had character exactly until you moved there. London and Paris both have bike share and they fart more beauty and history in their sleep than any Brooklyn neighborhood. The average Tesco is more interesting than your stupid brownstone.
And yeah, bike share stations are so noisy, what with their loud motors and slamming doors and alarms going off all night long.
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Hambone, I think there are a significant portion of people that are against having these kiosks in front of their homes because they are afraid of negative impacts to their property. Have you ever seen bus stops in front of private homes? People lean on or hang their property on the gates, sit on stairs, toss trash down, etc. This creates significant wear and tear on the property as well as additional work for homeowners. The thought of having to host strangers on a hot Saturday or Sunday afternoon isn't really appealing to folks, especially when they had no knowledge that the kiosks were going to appear.
Add to that the fact that if the same person wanted to put a planter or god forbid, their own bike rack on the sidewalk they would be greeted with letters and tickets from the city, waking up to see a row of bikes kiosks on the sidewalk has to be a bit disconcerting.
Once again, I think the city has been a bit ham-handed in how they've handled this. I'm sure there are plenty of property owners that wouldn't have objected to having these facilities in front of their buildings. Finding alternative locations (like on commercial streets in front of commercial properties) really couldn't be that difficult.
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From the city's point of view, I can understand why it did not engage homeowners and businesses more:
Despite that the fact that homeowners and businessess have to maintain the sidewalks, the city actually owns them. The city didn't want to create anymore confusion in the minds of homeowners than already exists.
I think the real fun will start if the city doesn't provide adequate trashcans around the sites, and the city then tickets the homeowners/businesses for litter on sidewalk.
P.S. Cate from Brownstoner appears to have attended the Mtg with Tish last night:
The current locations are not permanent and may be changed later after the DOT evaluates which ones are most popular, DOT reps said.
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/04/113286/#disqus_thread
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
Press from a pro-bike site: http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/04/25/at-bike-share-forum-its-about-removing-35-of-6800-parking-spots/
For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor. -
The thing about bus shelters is, people hang out there. They're shelters. The average length of time a person hangs out at a bike share kiosk is about a minute. Okay, maybe five if it's a tourist or a newbie. And the additional noise will likely consist of (i) the kiosk dinging gently when someone takes out/leaves a bike, or (ii) mild oaths of frustration by the same said tourists/newbies. It will pass. And it definitely won't be more disruptive than having cars park in front of your building.
The same sort of kvetching goes on with merchants every time they put a bike lane on their street. Bitch bitch bitch, all of our business is going to dry up. Doesn't quite work out that way. In other words, the worst part is going to be these model neighbors will actually benefit in the end, even though they don't deserve it.
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