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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)
IDIOTS!(\__/)
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Brooklynian » Forum » The Lounge / Random Stuff »
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I have no idea yet, but it seemes it will pass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)
IDIOTS!
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You could look at it as a step in the right direction: banning anyone from getting married.The world will little note nor long remember what we say here. -- Abraham Lincoln
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doctorj » You could look at it as a step in the right direction: banning anyone from getting married.
The gay thing, it's all population control.Get in, get out, that's a O.G.'s classic. -
LA Times says it passed: Voters approve Proposition 8 banning same-sex marriages
Los Angeles Times » UPDATE: Voters approve Proposition 8 banning same-sex marriages. With more than 95% of the vote counted, the measure leads 52.1% to 47.9%. A measure to once again ban gay marriage in California led Tuesday, throwing into doubt the unions of an estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who wed during the last 4 1/2 months.
(Image accompanying the article)
^ Get Out The Hate '08i extend my battery life by turning down the brightness -
Dumb. Some thing like this shouldn't even be up for a vote. If gay and lesbians want to get married and go through misery like heteros then they should. It's a fucking miserable state of affairs when being born gay , or choosing to be gay is so looked down upon it has to be a civil rights issue. Hopefully, the courts will say it's a Constitutional right."Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!
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I don't understand why civil unions aren't a matter of law, and marriages a matter of religion. Then the bigots can keep to themselves, and yet everyone has equal civil rights.Spend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org
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Marijuana reform, on the other hand, was victorious! "The marijuana reform movement won two prized victories, with Massachusetts voters decriminalizing possession of small amounts of the drug and Michigan joining 12 other states in allowing use of pot for medical purposes. Henceforth, people caught in Massachusetts with an ounce or less of pot will no longer face criminal penalties. Instead, they'll forfeit the marijuana and pay a $100 civil fine." Sucks to have to pay to give up your bud, though, but better than being a outright criminal."...you can choose the rain....but I choose the sun..." - N. Costa
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best headline I've seen on the matter: America Elects a Black Man and Makes Gays the New Second Class Citizens http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/ Kate Clinton is calling for a Gay Work Slowdown... kateclinton.com
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This disgusts me. I cannot believe that these morons don't see the hipocracy of this! They expect gays to pay taxes like everyone else, no? But then deny them the right to marry and/or adopt children?? I think I'm going to include a note to the IRS next year stating that since I don't have kids, I don't want my tax money going to pay for other's children to receive an education.Babies aren't meat! They're not even people!
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Anastasia Beaverhausen » This disgusts me. I cannot believe that these morons don't see the hipocracy of this! They expect gays to pay taxes like everyone else, no? But then deny them the right to marry and/or adopt children?? I think I'm going to include a note to the IRS next year stating that since I don't have kids, I don't want my tax money going to pay for other's children to receive an education.
I have African-American friends and the last time I checked they couldn't choose to be European-American. Gays can choose to being gay or not being gay. Let us not let them indoctrinate a next generation into gayism, they can be gay but not turn innocent kids into gays. Their is no orginal sin. You are born without sin. The world introduces you into sin as you age.Get in, get out, that's a O.G.'s classic. -
worldwide trader » [quote="Anastasia Beaverhausen"]This disgusts me. I cannot believe that these morons don't see the hipocracy of this! They expect gays to pay taxes like everyone else, no? But then deny them the right to marry and/or adopt children?? I think I'm going to include a note to the IRS next year stating that since I don't have kids, I don't want my tax money going to pay for other's children to receive an education.
I have African-American friends and the last time I checked they couldn't choose to be European-American. Gays can choose to being gay or not being gay. Let us not let them indoctrinate a next generation into gayism, they can be gay but not turn innocent kids into gays. Their is no orginal sin. You are born without sin. The world introduces you into sin as you age.[/quote] You're joking, right? This crap comes from the computer of the one who cried foul at The Heights for making a bad soy mocha latte... and you think being gay is a *choice*? It's far too absurd to be anything other than a joke. Do straight people choose to be straight, then? I distinctly remember my first crush as a young girl - and choice had nothing to do with it. Biology did.Be the change you want to see in the... neighborhood. -
worldwide trader » [quote="Anastasia Beaverhausen"]This disgusts me. I cannot believe that these morons don't see the hipocracy of this! They expect gays to pay taxes like everyone else, no? But then deny them the right to marry and/or adopt children?? I think I'm going to include a note to the IRS next year stating that since I don't have kids, I don't want my tax money going to pay for other's children to receive an education.
I have African-American friends and the last time I checked they couldn't choose to be European-American. Gays can choose to being gay or not being gay. Let us not let them indoctrinate a next generation into gayism, they can be gay but not turn innocent kids into gays. Their is no orginal sin. You are born without sin. The world introduces you into sin as you age.[/quote] So...which one did you choose?Babies aren't meat! They're not even people! -
worldwide trader » I have African-American friends and the last time I checked they couldn't choose to be European-American. Gays can choose to being gay or not being gay.
Now that's what I call being pro-choice. By the way, I get to choose not to be European-American, and some African-Americans choose to become African-Europeans.The world will little note nor long remember what we say here. -- Abraham Lincoln -
^^ Love it.Be the change you want to see in the... neighborhood.
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California had a protest yesterday and another one tonight in protest of prop 8. Two very long nights of rallies that warm my heart. Don't just underestimate the amount of people that are against this in the state. My whole family and cousins are in outrage over the results.(\__/)
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I heard there are some lawsuits being filed challenging the constitutionality of the prop. sweet. good luck, callie. if spain can allow gay marriage, y'all can recognize that shiz.like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote
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Anonymous
Posts: 9,622I was in San Fran on election night. I was very hopeful when I saw so many people wearing "no on H8" buttons. I was asked several times to vote (but I'm not a resident, just visiting). So disappointed to wake up and hear the news. I loved one sign I saw a (gay) guy carrying saying "Would you rather I married your daughter?". -
Flexichick » I loved one sign I saw a (gay) guy carrying saying "Would you rather I married your daughter?".
lololSpend a buck, light a number for one the 400,000 victims in Darfur: darfurwall.org -
A casualty of the "get out the Obama vote" movement? Obama is against gay marriage, although he does support gay rights.
Obama » I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.
Polling seems to indicate that while Obama supporters in general tended to oppose the gay marriage ban, the unusually large numbers of black voters supported the gay marriage ban by a margin of more than two to one."It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
daver » A casualty of the "get out the Obama vote" movement? Obama is against gay marriage, although he does support gay rights. [quote="Obama"]I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.
Polling seems to indicate that while Obama supporters in general tended to oppose the gay marriage ban, the unusually large numbers of black voters supported the gay marriage ban by a margin of more than two to one.[/quote] Undoubtedly. More discussion about this on the PS Board: http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=483852#483852 -
He's speaking upon deaf ears. This is where the courts have to decide if gay marriage is constitutionally guaranteed."Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!
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Idlewild » He's speaking upon deaf ears. This is where the courts have to decide if gay marriage is constitutionally guaranteed.
It's inevitable. The tide of opinion is turning nationwide on this, and the younger generation is overwhelmingly in favor of allowing gay marriage. The only question is whether this issue can be fought through now, or whether we have to wait for the older opposition to die off first. But eventually, those opposed to gay marriage are going to be viewed the way segregationists are now. -
I'm not sure I share your optimism. Americans have trouble dealing with hetero sex. I actually find the intolerance prevails in the younger generation rather than older. Most of those hate attacks are done by people in their teens to their late twenties. Homophobia also knows no color, ethnic, religious or race boundaries. It's one of the few subjects which can unite warring factions. This marriage right has to be legislated for it to take effect. If gays and lesbians want this passed then they have to come out in force and start boycotting people and businesses who support the anti-gay marriage organizations. Utah is a great start. Saying that, in a way barriers are already being broken down such as domestic partner acts, hospital visits and so on."Clamato! Straight Up! No chasah!
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A bit of perspective, via Religious Tolerance:
It may be worth noting that a rapid change in the U.S. occurred over a little more than four decades concerning interracial marriage: bullet * In 1948, about 90% of American Adults opposed interracial marriage when the Supreme Court of California legalized it, and California became the first state that allowed loving, committed interracial couples to marry. * In 1967, about 72% were opposed to interracial marriage. This was the year when the U.S. Supreme Court was legalized interracial marriage everywhere in the U.S. * In 1991, those adults opposed to interracial marriage became a minority for the first time. *The change averaged slightly less than 1 percentage point per year.
Change is coming on same-sex marriage _much_ faster. And while I hear what is being said regarding the youth, changes are coming much more rapidly in the older population. Some stats from Pew Research then. From Feb 2004 to March 2006 opposition to gay marriage by 18-29 year olds dropped from 32% to 25%. A significant 7% decrease, which is good. But taking a look at some other age groups reveals even bigger changes. 30-49 year olds dropped from 38% to 26% in opposition, a 12% drop. 50-64 year olds dropped from 45% to 30%, a 15% change. And last, those 65+ dropped from 58% to 33%, a huge 25% drop in opposition to gay marriage. True, the 33% of those 65+ opposed is still larger than the 25% of those 18-29, but the direction appears to be undeniable, across all age groups. I won't bother posting the numbers unless someone really wants to see them, but similar changes are happening across all groups, Republican, Democrat, Protest, Catholic, the higher the initial opposition, the larger the drops across the board."It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
fivethirtyeight.com on how prop 8 actually passed: old folks. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html there's more, but here's an idea:
Certainly, the No on 8 folks might have done a better job of outreach to California's black and Latino communities. But the notion that Prop 8 passed because of the Obama turnout surge is silly. Exit polls suggest that first-time voters -- the vast majority of whom were driven to turn out by Obama (he won 83 percent [!] of their votes) -- voted against Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. More experienced voters voted for the measure 56-44, however, providing for its passage. Now, it's true that if new voters had voted against Prop 8 at the same rates that they voted for Obama, the measure probably would have failed. But that does not mean that the new voters were harmful on balance -- they were helpful on balance. If California's electorate had been the same as it was in 2004, Prop 8 would have passed by a wider margin.
Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit -
A lot of people are painting this as a black and white issue which is damaging and inaccurate. A huge influence were the churches that went out of their way to campaign against it, notably the Mormon church. I for one, along with many others, propose that since these churches spent money on a political crusade against Prop 8 they should have their tax exempt status removed. Hit em in the wallet where it hurts. And my opinion, for the record, extends beyond Prop 8 as well. Any religious organization that infuses itself in any politics should be taxed.
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sweet tea » fivethirtyeight.com on how prop 8 actually passed: old folks. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html there's more, but here's an idea:
Three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. They are making quite a handful of assumptions that may or may not be true. Just like everybody else, just _different_ assumptions. But at the base, you can't disagree with it anyhow. When the dam breaks, whose fault is it? The millions of gallons pressed against its back, or the relatively minor rainstorm that puts it over the edge?Certainly, the No on 8 folks might have done a better job of outreach to California's black and Latino communities. But the notion that Prop 8 passed because of the Obama turnout surge is silly. Exit polls suggest that first-time voters -- the vast majority of whom were driven to turn out by Obama (he won 83 percent [!] of their votes) -- voted against Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. More experienced voters voted for the measure 56-44, however, providing for its passage. Now, it's true that if new voters had voted against Prop 8 at the same rates that they voted for Obama, the measure probably would have failed. But that does not mean that the new voters were harmful on balance -- they were helpful on balance. If California's electorate had been the same as it was in 2004, Prop 8 would have passed by a wider margin.
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
Some just desserts, at least! http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8284
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Carnivore » Some just desserts, at least! http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8284
Kinda mean spirited, and not entirely accurate. The layoffs there in the last two months total about 250 people. The amount of money they put into Prop. 8 would fund less than twenty for a year. So the whole priorities questions isn't really in play. But let us say it is, for the sake of argument. Does the organization exist for the purpose of providing jobs, or does the organization actually have a different purpose? Let us review their mission statement: "To cooperate with the Holy Spirit in sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ with as many people as possible by nurturing and defending the God-ordained institution of the family and promoting biblical truths worldwide." I would think that their Prop. 8 activities do more to serve their stated mission than providing employment. *shrug* Just my thoughts. On a final note, I hate to see people losing their employment and their ability to support their families in any manner, and hardly see it as a cause for celebration, or a time to state that they got their "just deserts."
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
I don't apologize for celebrating people losing their employment when that employment involves actively working to deprive other people of their civil rights.
daver » ...or a time to state that they got their "just deserts."
And who said anything about deserts?
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But- but! I LOVES the desert! They gots cacti!"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
As far as actively working to deprive other people of their civil rights, I understand your point. But I can't agree with it. I mourn the loss of anyone's livelihood, whether I agree with them or not. Many on that side of the debate would celebrate the loss of employment for many in the medical field, for example. Seeing as that the medical field actively works to deprive other people of their very lives through the evils of birth control and abortion. *Shrug* Everyone feels justified in being a meanie somehow. Meanwhile, I'll just be nice. 
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
daver » Seeing as that the medical field actively works to deprive other people of their very lives through the evils of birth control and abortion.
Embryos =/= people. -
Carnivore » [quote="daver"]Seeing as that the medical field actively works to deprive other people of their very lives through the evils of birth control and abortion.
Embryos =/= people.[/quote] Yer missing the point. You say embryos aren't people, they say marriage is only between a man and a woman. You have your reasons, they have theirs. That's OK though, here's a kitteh.
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
daver » Yer missing the point. You say embryos aren't people, they say marriage is only between a man and a woman. You have your reasons, they have theirs.
No. I say a non-viable clump of cells doesn't have the same rights as a person. They say a person (or group thereof) doesn't have the same rights as other people. They are oppressing a group of people and I celebrate any setbacks they suffer in that effort. -
Carnivore » [quote="daver"]Yer missing the point. You say embryos aren't people, they say marriage is only between a man and a woman. You have your reasons, they have theirs.
No. I say a non-viable clump of cells doesn't have the same rights as a person. They say a person (or group thereof) doesn't have the same rights as other people. They are oppressing a group of people and I celebrate any setbacks they suffer in that effort.[/quote] Alright then, how about affirmative action then? I don't have the same rights as other people due to the color of my skin. When I tried to go to university, I had to score higher on my SATs for entrance than a black or Hispanic in order to gain admission to a state run school. (On the flip side, I could score less than the horribly oppressed Asians.) Once admitted, had I had a different skin color, I would have had the right to all sorts of financial aid, but I didn't because my group didn't have the same rights. Another debate here, or course, would be as to wither yer clump of cells is a potential person or not. Which is of course a whole 'nother kettle of fish that there are obviously many that would not agree with you about. *shrug*
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
[quote="Carnivore"]
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
[quote="Carnivore"]
Some people -especially in the midwest- believe that jews have rejected christ. If your little girl is correct, jews should receive bacon.
....yet, good Jews (as all new yorkers know) are not supposed to have bacon.
So, your little girl carrying a sign (I'm sorry, "young woman") is a threat to both christianity and judiasm?!
Perhaps a proposition is needed to ban her.For better or worse, the change on Nostrand is going to make the change on Franklin look minor.
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whynot_31 » Some people -especially in the midwest- believe that jews have rejected christ. If your little girl is correct, jews should receive bacon. ....yet, good Jews (as all new yorkers know) are not supposed to have bacon.
Good point!
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
I don't think affirmative action prevents you from going to college. That's not at all analogous to the situation of a gay couple that wants to marry but are now prevented by law in California from doing to. As to the debate about whether a clump of cells has civil rights, bring it on!
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[quote="daver"]
That's a platform I can get behind! 
mmm.... bacon...... -
Carnivore » I don't think affirmative action prevents you from going to college. That's not at all analogous to the situation of a gay couple that wants to marry but are now prevented by law in California from doing to.
It is analogous to "They say a person (or group thereof) doesn't have the same rights as other people. They are oppressing a group of people". If you want to go to state run college in CA, a white or Asian has to score higher than a black or Hispanic. Additionally, a black or Hispanic is eligible for all sorts of financial aid that a white or Asian is not. It does not prevent them from going to college, they have to score higher and have more money than blacks or Asians, is all. Not being legally married in CA won't prevent a gay couple from being happy, but they will have to travel to another state to marry, and pay more in income taxes than a non-gay couple. How is the the abridgment of rights not analogous? Not that I disagree with either affirmative action or gay marriage, FWIW. But all sorts of groups are granted rights that other groups are not. Parents get to extra deductions on their income taxes, all the while consuming more of the tax money by having children in school. Shouldn't _non_ parents be the ones getting those deductions? Etc.Carnivore » As to the debate about whether a clump of cells has civil rights, bring it on!
Yah, I'll get right on that. I know that I've been through that one enough times to know that there is _no_ end. There is a base difference of opinion, and no amount of evidence from one side can possibly convince the other.
"It's only as boring as you make it."
You're making me want to poke my eyes out with a spoon. Stop that.
Bringing the term thin-skinned to a whole new level! -
So the difference is that affirmative action, for all its flaws, is an attempt to address a societal problem of inequities in early educational opportunities, and systematic discrimination that puts many minority groups at a disadvantage. Although in some individual cases, it might seem "unfair", on balance we've decided as a society that it is worth this cost. Banning gay marriage is different though. No one benefits from stopping a gay couple from marrying. The discrimination here isn't an unfortunate side effect of a move to help a disadvantaged group. The discrimination here is the whole point of Proposition 8. Again, I rejoice at any setbacks that supporters of the mean-spirited Prop 8 now face.
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daver » Not being legally married in CA won't prevent a gay couple from being happy, but they will have to travel to another state to marry, and pay more in income taxes than a non-gay couple.
oh yes, all those other states where gay people can get married.... let's see, there's alabama? -- hilarious. no alaska? -- ha! nope arizona? -- not so much arkansas? -- you're killin' me here. no. california? -- not anymore, suckers. colorado? -- nope connecticut? -- yes. this one yes. delaware? -- no, but please leave your $ in rehoboth beach! florida? -- nope. rosie can't even keep her kids. georgia? -- the indigo girls are from here, yet no. hawaii? -- nice beaches, but no. idaho? -- c'mon. no. illinois? -- no change here. indiana? -- you're kidding again. no. iowa? -- nope. kansas? -- no can do. kentucky? -- no. good bourbon, though. louisiana? -- way too moral. maine? -- no. maryland? -- you'd think, with that name, but no. massachusetts? -- yes! oh wait, NO NO NO, unless you live here. gotcha! thank heavens for anti-miscegenation laws! michigan? -- M go NOPE. minnesota? -- ya bet no. mississippi? -- you're being funny again. missouri? -- show me your bits...no. montana? -- nope. nebraska? -- never. nevada? -- only men may marry britney spears. new hampshire? -- live free or die, unless you're that way. then just die. new jersey? -- nope. new mexico? -- not gonna happen. new york? -- soooo liberal we don't even have no-fault divorce. that's a no. north carolina? -- wrote its laws careful back in the 1890s. no. north dakota? -- nope. ohio? -- gateway to indiana. no. oklahoma? -- not OK. oregon? -- next thing you know, spotted owls will want to marry redwoods. no. pennsylvania? -- no, but please buy a confederate flag anywhere you like. rhode island? -- hello? it's not mr. and mr. potato head. no. south carolina? -- HA HA HA. no. south dakota? -- you kidder. no. tennessee? -- you're killin' me here. no texas? -- please, please, stop. no. utah? -- in the state founded to avoid federal marriage laws? of course not! vermont? -- socialist senator, check. man on man matrimony? gross! virginia? -- how dare you suggest any such thing about good queen bess! never! washington? -- back to vancouver with you! no! west virginia? -- there's an incest joke in here somewhere. no. wisconsin? -- no, but maybe the cheese will make up for it. wyoming? -- ask matt shepard. so you see, california gays could go to any one of the one-twelfth of a dozen states to get married instead! no problems here! and as for "happiness".... sorry, but i don't really think it's your place as a straight man to make that kind of determination.Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit -
worldwide trader » [quote="Anastasia Beaverhausen"]This disgusts me. I cannot believe that these morons don't see the hipocracy of this! They expect gays to pay taxes like everyone else, no? But then deny them the right to marry and/or adopt children?? I think I'm going to include a note to the IRS next year stating that since I don't have kids, I don't want my tax money going to pay for other's children to receive an education.
I have African-American friends and the last time I checked they couldn't choose to be European-American. Gays can choose to being gay or not being gay. Let us not let them indoctrinate a next generation into gayism, they can be gay but not turn innocent kids into gays. Their is no orginal sin. You are born without sin. The world introduces you into sin as you age.[/quote] Dude you said "gayism". This plus the soy mocha whaever bullshit and the "I don't ride trhe subway" thing has convinced me you are not a real anything. You exist only on the internet.giggity giggity -
i'm still trying to figure out who converted me to gayism. must have been some subtle persuasion.Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit
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