[thalia]

(rather tham derail the other thread )

retail chain sets up in this nabe lower standards seem to take over...crappy service...lower maintenance...inventory leaves much to be desired

[escap]

Can you be more specific? Do you mean Target? Any others?

[thalia]

well..this is the only Target I ever visited..so I have nothing to compare..but I imagine it would be the same

Pathmark was nice for about 2 weeks when it first opened

Macys...key Food..Associate...couple more in the mall...some now departed..whose name I can't remember

[Nathan]

I'm gonna both agree and disagree.

Target is not bad.
Marshall's....a complete dump (Last time I was there, there was merchandise blocking the aisles and there was a woman TRYING ON PANTYHOSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORE!!!)
My GF and I have a theory (which is gonna get me flamed here). We figure the problem with stores that open in Brooklyn is that they then hire people who live in Brooklyn. And then the shoppers who show up? They're from Brooklyn.

Don't get me wrong. I love Brooklyn and the folks here. It's just that we suck behind the counter...and in front of it.

[The Changeling]

Nathan you're absolutely right. These companies try to do right by Brooklyn by hiring people from the neighborhoods their stores are in. That might work somewhere else, but in Brooklyn that guarantees that the customer service is going to be lacking.

I noticed this in the big retail chains because I have the opportunity to make a comparison--I can compare the Target, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. in Brooklyn to the ones in my hometown (I'm from the south, btw). You wanna experience some bad customer service? Drop on by the Home Depot and Lowe's when you get a chance. I've actually stopped shopping in those places as a result. If any of these places were giving away their merchandise for free, then I would gladly accept the stank attitudes and poor service, but I'm paying for their goods, so why should I put up with it?

Unlike Nathan, I can't throw out the "I love Brooklyn and the folks here" just yet. I will say I love SOME things about Brooklyn and I certainly love what I think Brooklyn can become. You might ask, then why don't you take yourself back to your old hometown? I can't. The place is crawling with New Yorkers.

I grant you permission to commence flaming now...

P.S.
Although I don't shop there frequently, I find the employees of the Atlantic Center Target to be rather helpful and friendly. And as for the Macy's I don't have one from back home to compare it to, but that doesn't matter. The Fulton Mall Macy's is a dark dump and the few times I stepped in the door I literally felt the spectre of depression rise up from behind a clothing rack and envelope me. They should place Christmas candy dispensers at the door and each treat should contain Zoloft. That's the only way you're gonna be able to shop in there this Christmas.

[thalia]

interesting take on the Brooklyn thing Nathan..but I've been to other parts of Brooklyn where for example Pathmark an Key Food are very well run.

When PAthmark implemented those automated check out machines..I was relieved at least the machines said thank you in response to my thank you

so you guys think good Customer Service is innate to the individual? You don't think managment..the chain itself must some how be involved in enforcing it?

[Nathan]

Well, to expand on the subject.....

I went to the Home Depot on Willoughby, and the service there couldn't have been better. Go Figure!

As far as the chain enforcing good service? I just can't believe that anyone in upper management has ever visited the Marshall's in the Atlantic Center. *Shudders*

[escap]

I'm just speculating on this, but I'd guess that at the executive level these companies look primarily at the numbers coming out of these outlets in Brooklyn, and as long as those numbers are good there's no reason for them to send in the crack down and shake things up. And I hear that Brooklyn's Target is one of its most, if not its #1 most profitable store, and I'm guessing the BK Macy's, Pathmark and the rest are also doing well. How can it be that stores with such horrendous service can be profitable? Easy--no competition. New Yorkers' allergy to large chains (which I fully sympathize with from a taste perspective) has created a situation where those few chains that can convince enough local officials to allow them entrance (by promising hiring locals and using union labor, etc.), operate virtual monopolies because the mom & pop stores can't possibly match their economies of scale and there are no other strong competitors. I would personally hate this from an aesthetic standpoint, but you bring a Walmart, a Kmart and a Safeway into the area and suddenly Target/Pathmark etc. would be hard pressed to draw customers to its doors. In order to attract commerce it would have to compete on service as well as price, and it would crack down on its managers, who would in turn crack down on their employees. Service would improve. But right now, Brooklynites are so starved for a place like Target, with its cheap, wide selection, that all the place has to do its open its doors and let the money come rolling in. Combine the long standing history and culture of bad service in this city with the lack of meaningful competition, and voila, you have the miserable Pathmark shopping that you have now. Just my two cents.

[sweet tea]

I can only add my shock that anyone has experienced good -- or even adequate -- customer service at that Target.

Here is a visual representation:

[The Changeling]

[homeowner]

I think escap hit it right on the head. If people were not shopping in the stores because the merchandise was difficult to find, surly employees, long lines, etc. then management would do its best to change those things. But people come for the convenience of being able to shop for all of their needs under one roof at moderate prices. Thus, Target thrives at the expense of local businesses that do focus more on appearance and customer service.

This weekend I went into both the Old Navy and Target and beat a hasty retreat because there was merchandise all over the floor (Old Navy) and there were unbearable lines (Target). If I'm going to pay for clothes I'd like them to be clean and not used to dust the floor of a store, and I'm not waiting on line for 45 minutes to give away my money. Instead, I went to some smaller stores on Flatbush and 7th Avenue and was in and out of three stores in the hour I would have wasted at the mall.

As for the local help, most of these stores are staffed by 16-25 year olds. Where do they shop? Places like fulton mall where merchandise is most likely to be laying out on a platform or table to be pawed over. Display and neatness are sacrificed for greater display space. Why would you expect them to understand the basics of things like customer service. Most of them don't even come to work appropriately dressed. (How many times have you seen checkout people so look like they are earing their pjs?) Its up to management to instill some ethics but do they really need to if we are shopping in these places anyway?

[Carlton Banks]

The underlying assumption in some of the posts within this string is basically offensive to anyone who is actually from Brooklyn and borderline racist. People "from Brooklyn", i.e. Black people are surly and rude.

The fact of the matter is that any Target in the country is going to be a nightmare shopping experience during the Christmas season. It has nothing to do with where it's located.

I'm assuming most of you came from other places (Manhattan, Nebraska, Kansas, Cape Cod, Oregon, etc.)... Feel free to shop/move there if Brooklyn isn't doing it for you. There are plenty of pristine big box stores with cheery, helpful staff and lovely condos available to you throughout the NY metropolitan area. At this rate FG/CG will be as as flavorless as Battery Park City or Boise, Idaho so I'd be happy to see the gentrification rate slow.

[WhyFi]

[bifteck]

Target at Atlantic Center is usually a nightmare shopping experience (I say "usually" because people in this thread have had good experiences shopping at off-peak times) throughout the year. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's the holiday season.

[Nathan]

[quote="Carlton Banks"]The underlying assumption in some of the posts within this string is basically offensive to anyone who is actually from Brooklyn and borderline racist. People "from Brooklyn", i.e. Black people are surly and rude.

Geez, Carlton (for a fictitious TV character), you assume a whole lot.

1. Since I've now lived approximately 3/4 of my life in Brooklyn, I think I'll stay. I like it here. I like the people here. There's just something about us shopping and serving each other in large stores that works kinda crappy.

2. The suckitudiness of service has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the expectations of a store's management. If management doesn't implement standards, and train staff to have basic knowledge about the inventory, the service will suck.

3. The lady trying on pantyhose in the aisle of Marshall's was very white.

[homeowner]

Well, I can only draw from my own experiences working retail here in NYC and Washington DC while in college. Worked one winter at the GAP on 42nd Street between 3rd and Lex. Approximately half of the staff was Black or Latino with the rest being white. There were 3 people whose basic job all day was to fold and refold sweaters (this was when the sweater was 50% of the GAP's inventory). Other sales people/cashiers/ stockers had to assist in the folding of displays whenever they were not helping customers. At the end of the night every display had to be refolded so that the morning started with a store that was neat and clean. If merchandise fell on the floor, it had to be removed immediately, refolded and then put back on display.

With respect to customer service, we were required to greet each person that entered the store. We asked people who were browsing if they needed assistance and if they said no the response was, "My name is X, please let me know if you have any questions." Teaching your employees that kind of customer service has nothing to do with the color of the employees. It has everything to do with whether management cares. The reality is that large chains don't care if folks are still shopping there.

There are small businesses that are black owned that have black employees that don't have these issues. Have you ever been into Karen's Body Beautiful on Myrtle or Carol's Daughter on Dekalb? What about the african bookstore on Fulton and Flatbush. The service you get is very different because the owners realize that customer service keeps people coming in.

Having surly employees or inappropriately dressed employees is not a function of race, but it is very much a function of what behavior employers allow/condone.

[thalia]

Escap..I think that is a good summary..

As far as overall helpfulness..Target is not bad...

Carlton Banks....that response doen't really help anything...yes if I'm spending Pathmark money...I expect a decent environment to shop in and pleasant service...if most of these employees happen to be black...so be it


eta: the flip side of the issue could be do majority black nabes deserve less when they spend the same amount of money...all depends on how you look at it :shrug:

[Carlton Banks]

Thalia... I wasn't trying to be helpful with my response. I was simply stating my opinion. Of course service is better at small businesses. They aren't inundated with thousands of shopper and don't have to manage a million different SKUs.

I should have stated that a place like Target will be a shopping nightmare during any peak shopping time, not just Christmas. The fact that Target has no competition has led to a supply/demand imbalance resulting in increasing sales regardless of the service level.

If you expect a decent environment and pleasant service don't go to Pathmark... I know I've only stepped foot in that place once in my 8 years in this neighborhood.

I'm all for sarcasm but the "flip side" that a majority black neighborhood deserves less is obviously ridiculous... and I don't think the neighborhood is majority black anymore. There are more Volvo wagons, Bugaboo strollers and Subarus than I can count

And while I've lived in Brooklyn for some time I've also lived in SC, CA, and MA as well as traveled most of the world. I know good service. As some of you mentioned, service is a function of your business model. One model is the Target, WalMart model: High volume/low margin/minimal service. Your profit margin isn't large enough to pay your staff well so you have a great deal of turnover. The opposite is the low volume/high margin/great service. Small shops, jewelry stores, etc. have this model.

Comparing Target to Carol's Daughter, Karen's Body Beautiful or even the Gap is ridiculous. More customers buy toilet brushes in a day at Target than visit all those stores combined in a week.

Basically the moral of the story is Target is Target. There are no other big box retailers in an area starving for retail. If you want white glove service go elsewhere. Common sense would tell you that unless it's Monday morning at 8a.m. Target is going to be a nightmare.

I know there are alot of do-gooders on the site so I apologize for bringing race into the mix, but its still implicit in many of your comments whether you recognize it or not...

[thalia]

I was not been sarcastic...I was been rhetorical


whose talking about white glove service.. notice I said mid-scale ....i think everyone in this thread is speaking about the basics..have you been to any of these chain stores in other nabes?..with the exception of Target..I can speak from personal experience the shopping environment and service is way above what we receive here...Pathmark included

[queencallipygos]

I wonder if maybe we might all have a different definition of the term "mid-scale"? Thalia, could you elaborate?

[homeowner]

I agree with Thalia. Try the Pathmark in South Ozone Park on Atlantic Avenue. That is actually a community that I think has less wealth on average, however the racial mix is similar although it may skew with a slightly larger minority community. Service is much better and there is a real presence by the owner. The staff is friendly, place is clean and the food is fresh.

Don't appologize for bringing race into the mix, because I think that its important to discuss it. But keep in mind that there are many people of color that post here as well and the (majority) minority community has just as much of a right (perhaps more) to complain about the bad service that is being foisted on the community in the name of "progress".

[thalia]

just in case it was not realised..I'm one of those people of colour

I don't care about the race of the person delivering...bad service is bad service

QC..I meant mid-scale in terms of amenities, merchandise. pricing.. as opposed to more upscale or high end stores...for example Balducci's or Bloomie's...Conway's would be on the lower end


Even Macy's an A&S when they were here...(is Macy's still around?) were crappy compared to other locations

a friend of mine (person of colour ) just went to the Toy's R US downtown and promptly departed in favour of the 42nd St location

[Nathan]

Macy's is still there and may (I repeat MAY) have cleaned up their act. I was in a couple of weeks ago and they didn't have all those displays crammed into the aisles like they used to.

I could actually walk around the place without feeling like a sardine.

[The Changeling]

For the record, I'm a person of color.

[queencallipygos]

[Guest]

Mr. Banks:

I bet you're the kind of blockhead who steals fancy pens from poor starving waitresses...am I wrong?

For the record, I have a gold-plated toilet bowl brush from Carole's Daughter.

What do you have against oregon, anyway?

[Carlton Banks]

My bad... Oregon is wonderful

[escap]

Banks, I'm going to assume the "You're not from Brooklyn" charge was not directed at me, because if it was I would be pissed, and I don't want to be. And if it's racist to think that increased competition is good for consumers, then I fully admit to being a racist.

[arZan]

How soon before something like this happen in brooklyn

http://www.wftv.com/news/10565684/detail.html
_________________
http://clintonhill.us
http://wadias.in/site/arzan/blog/

[thalia]

lol@arZan

QC..she said merchandise was strewn all over..in fact she called the place a fire trap...lol


service is just one aspect of the overall customer experience..albeit an important one

I shop at Costco..they are pretty much self service and the lines tend to be long..I expect that ...however... the store is always clean and the shelves well/neatly stocked

and my feelings/comments have nada to do with the xmas rush..


escap...just give up an admit ur posting from Oregon

[queencallipygos]

I may just have different triggers or peeves; an empty or messy store I can deal with before I can deal with a crowded one. *shrug*

But my quirks are not the topic so I'll shut up.

[guestt]

I remember shopping at the Macy's at 34th street during christmas season. Nightmarishly crowded. Plus, the $120 cashmere sweaters were all strewn about the floor. I'm sure no discount was offered.

I have always had a good experience at this Target at Atlantic Center, as well as the (former) Macy's at Atlantic Center, and the one on Fulton. Haven't been to the Times Square one in years.

The Pathmark is a different story, I don't know what it is, but the people waiting in line can't wait to erupt into argument.

The Circuit City is also reasonably pleasant.

I'm from upstate New York, and I don't find that stores here are worse in terms of service or rudeness of customers, in fact, since the stores tend to be smaller here, they are friendlier. The big box stores in my parents' retirement state, Tennessee, are not remarkably pleasant. I discovered soon after moving to NYC that those who are born and raised here tend to be super friendly, and the rest of us tend to want to embrace some sort of harsh, standoffish external attitude to cover up what we are really feeling, which is a bit of intimidation.

BTW, who is a person that is not "of color"?

[WhyFi]

[Nathan]

I'm sorta pinkish in the winter but brown up nicely during the summer.

Ba---dump! Don't forget to tip your waitress. We'll be here all week!

[Guest]

Yeah, what is it with all of the arguing that goes on in the Atlantic Center Pathmark?? It's crazy. I hate it there. I don't like the employees or the shoppers. I hate myself for going there when I can't avoid it.

[isla]

[thalia]

too funny..I went to Target yesterday and my cashier said..right in front of me..."f them" refering to the Target "guests" waiting on line to pay for their purchases..she was speaking to two off duty colleagues (at least I assume they were colleagues)..lol

[ffm3]

Target and Pathmark are both really bad in terms of customer service... (Circuit City is just crowded, but never had bad service there, just sloooow service due to the crowds)... why would they install 30 cash regiters in Target or like 20 in Pathmark to only have 5 or 6 open at any given time, creating lines that snake all the way around hte store. Target never has anything in stock, and for it being a top performing store, they could make loads more if they stocked the store according to the volume of customers. Went once and the entire bathroom aisle was empty, everything sold out... I hate going there unless i need to. Unfortunately, despite the alway horrific service at pathmark, the Associateds on Myrtle and Waverly pale in comparison to product selection and variety. Anyone know what supermarket they're putting in near the navy yard?

[jaha127]

Talk about being out of stock... yesterday I went into Pathmark because it was one of the few supermarkets that were open... to buy chicken breasts... there were none... how is it possible to run out of chicken at a supermarket?

And as for Target, being out of stock all the time I blame on store management. I mean seriously at this point they totally know the inventory flow/ customer flow and should schedule deliveries and restocking accordingly.

I’ve been to Target during the day and had to say it was an extremely pleasant experience. The shelves were like 70% stocked. There were plenty of red shirts around to help answer all questions and keeping the place neat. Actual cashiers were open and working… miracles do happen I only waited on line for less than 5 minutes…

Again with the negative attitudes of the store clerks/cashiers at Target, again I blame management… train these kids in customer service skills… I mean they act like they are doing me a favor by checking me out. And seriously, management should be doing spot checks on the cashiers… I mean I don’t love my job all the time either, but you don’t hear me cursing my job… I am seriously I am just thankful I have one… Trust me if they had random spot checking… things would be a lot different…

If only there was a place to complain too…

[escap]

In management's defense, its job is to make the store as profitable as possible, and since the store is reportedly doing a booming business then they can't really be faulted. Overstocking represents a cost and so companies are willing to lose some potential sales in order to avoid having excess inventory. Ditto to spending more on training or paying more for better employees. The only reason for them to adjust this tradeoff would be the loss of customers to competitors, but guess what: Target has virtually no credible competitors in the area.

If you want to blame someone, blame the city council. I hear Walmart is seeking to open a store where the Albee Square Mall currently is. Expect the usual protesters and hysterical rhetoric; behind it all, Target and its horrible service will be laughing all the way to the bank....

[queencallipygos]

[nicolamj]

FYI - there are never any chicken breasts at Pathmark. It's the norm. Even if you can rustle up one package of breasts, it costs $9 and it's orange and perdue and tastes like plastic. That's why I only buy my chicken breasts at the Greenmarket. The Dines Farms lady is really nice.

[pitu]

[WhyFi]

[pitu]