[bw]

Do you feel safe in Clinton Hill? I generally feel safe in the neighborhood. More than anything, I use the C train at Fulton/Washington. I do wish there was a little more night time activity in the area though so it doesn't feel quite so deserted when I get home late at night. The walk from the train to Greene can feel pretty dark. Has anyone had any trouble coming home late at night?

[LimestoneKid]

Not that we've had any problems there, we just don't stop at the Clinton/Washington station when we're on the "A" or the "C" train because it is kind of dark and there's not much going on at night there.

If my wife and I are taking the subway home we'll stop at Hoyt and wait for the "G" train instead of staying on the "C" train.
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[LeffertsGirl]

I've never had a problem, but I generally take a cab if home if I'll arrive in the neighborhood after 10:30p or so. Not because a person or people have ever made me feel unsafe, but because there's no movement whatsoever. There's something creepy about walking down Fulton when everything's closed and there's absolutely no one but you as far as you can see.
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[angela]

Huh, these responses are so interesting and surprising to read. I (30, white, female) moved here a couple months ago (Gates btw. Washington and Bedford) and from the beginning I always felt it was safe enough to walk from the Clinton/Washington stop at all hours of the day or night. I realize this is a tricky question because "risk" is so subjective, but would people who have lived here longer say that's an undue risk?

[Kevin_on_Putnam]

[guest11]

I am not comfortable on the C train at night. The station at Wash/Fulton is too deserted for my taste. If I'm out at night, I take a cab home. I look forward to Fulton getting some stores that I actually want to go into...fresh fruit/veggies, a real deli, bakery, etc.

[lp]

I've never had any problems on the C or in Clinton Hill in the past 5 years, but do keep your eyes open as others have said.

[queencallipygos]

I moved here from the Lower East Side, and I had lived on the LES for 12 years. Before then, I grew up in rural Connecticut, and THAT got deserted at night. I'm good in this neighborhood. Granted, I'm always alert late at night, and I have a couple streets I'd think twice about before going to at night, but other than that...

[Boygabriel]

We've lived here for 1.5 years and we've never had trouble (knock on wood) at the C or G clinton/washington stops. Or the B54, 61 or 38 buses.

I'd say that half the time coming from Manhattan late at night we take cabs, just out of convenience.

As others said, I remain very aware, I don't listen to headphones, I act calm and relaxed, and there are definitely blocks I avoid (ie anything near any of the projects)
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[CHDiva]

Funny question to ask after moving into the hood. I guess you bought into the gentrification hype. I've lived on Washington (Bet. Greene & Lafayette for 19 years.) Not much has changed. There's still shattered auto glass in the streets, people are still getting mugged or worse. Recently there has been more panhandlers frequenting the area. That's not a good omen. Angela, you should defintiely rethink walking on Fulton between Washington and Bedford especialy at night. Have any of you ever wondered why the people who you saw when you moved into the area aren't out walking around after certain hours?? Be Safe!

[queencallipygos]

*blink*

Well, okay, there are some things that people just shouldn't do here, and people should always have a certain degree of awareness anywhere in the city and it's not like you can cartwheel naked down the street and expect to be unobserved, but on the other hand, I don't think the neighborhood is like something out of Escape From New York or The Warriors, either.

[supergirl]

Do you guys think this is mostly a race issue? The people who seem most scared about walking at night are whites. I'm a 34 year old black female who lives alone and often make food runs on Fulton late at night. Usually those hanging out are black men and the occasional white guy making a beer run. Once a black man tried to talk to me and told me I had nothing to fear because I was a black woman. I would only be the target of someone wanting to talk with me (which has been my experience). On the other hand I have a white co worker who was a Pratt student. She had friends who were mugged twice on their way to visit her. She moved to Cobble Hill.

It's interesting to me how race and sex impacts your worldview.

[Boygabriel]

[lp]

CHDiva is being a bit of a drama queen. I've been here for over five years and neither me, nor my wife or any of our friends have had any problems in the neighborhood, including on Fulton Street. Also, who walks from Washington to Bedford? There are two more subway stops (Franklin and Nostrand) closer to Bedford in Bed Stuy, so I'm not sure why you would ever walk that far.

That said, you do need to be aware of your surroundings like others have said. As far as broken auto glass, I have seen that too. I have had friends who've had their car stolen twice in Brooklyn Heights, go figure. Overall, it is a safe neighborhood, but be alert and you should avoid most problems.

[Kevin_on_Putnam]

[LimestoneKid]

[LeffertsGirl]

[CHDiva]

Drama Queen, I don't think so Ip. I speak from experience. " You all should "Keep Your Heads Up."

[lp]

Sorry CHDiva, not trying to offend you. I agree, people should be careful, but to say the area is the same as it was 19 years ago is not true.

[JuliaGrand]

I've been living in CH for 7 months now. I walk from Washington to Grand and walk along Gates rather than Fulton. It is still very deserted at night, but I feel safer on a residential street than on a commercial one after-hours. I've never had a personal experience to make me feel nervous (knock on wood), but I admit to reading the police blotter in the local paper and a couple months ago there was a flyer on my corner, written by a woman who was mugged right there, warning women to beware. Also, the first few months of living on Grand, the whole block below me was blocked off with police tape while they were cracking down on a some local drug dealers. Remember that anyone?

All that being said, I do take the subway late. I don't listen to headphones, I don't talk on the phone, I walk briskly, and I switch sides of the street depending on my company. Not to be selfish or anything, but if more of you guys took the subway at night, I'd have more company to walk home next to - safety in numbers, right? Anyone?

I love this neighborhood and I just remind myself that this stuff happens everywhere. My sister's neighbor was mugged right in the entrance of her building and she lives in Manhattan on Houston and Ave.B with tons of people always around...

[jimmylegs]

a friend of mine was attacked on her stoop at about 7:30pm on a weeknight. her house is near the corner of grand and gates. the guy was out on parole and had just met with his PO, had a couple of hours before curfew so he grabbed her and tried to drag her under the stairs. she fought back and made as much of a ruckus as possible. he didn't let go until her landlady looked out the window. he ran off but he dropped his cellphone, which was used to track him down. he's back on riker's island now and my friend is moving out of the neighborhood. but honestly, this could happen anywhere.

[queencallipygos]

The one and only time I have ever been mugged in my entire 18 years of living in New York City, I was mugged on the corner of 9th Street and 5th Avenue in Manhattan.

The neighborhood itself has less to do with whether or not you're mugged as your own behavior does.

[Guest]

I hate when people use the excuse to justify crimes by saying: "i got robbed in broad daylight in park slope" but the thing is, you live in a neighborhood with higher crime, so stop trying to put blinders on and do something about it. It didnt happen "ANYWHERE" it happened in Clinton Hill, in YOUR hood.
People wonder why old timers get mad at the "new timers." When shit like this goes down, you run out the neighborhood. And it looks all so reminiscent of the earlier days when whitey left the neighborhood for shit years ago. Leaving it to lack of services and crime... all what you're bitching about now.

[LimestoneKid]

[MichaelKeys]

[queencallipygos]

[Brooklyn Boi]

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Whites are actually safer in these areas than Blacks. The criminal element knows the difference in the police investigations and enforcement techniques that will apply if the victim is white (god forbid a white woman) as opposed to black. I own a couple of brownstones in Bedford-Stuyvesant and have both black and white tenants. I'm often amazed at the risks my white tenants take; they clearly take risks that I or other blacks I know would not take.

[bifteck]

Can you give any examples, Brooklyn Boi? Just out of curiosity.

[Guest]

It has been said before but perhaps it needs to be repeated: Getting robbed/mugged can happen anywhere in nyc. It depends less on your community than it does if you look like a sucker. I work in East New York, which is by far one of the worse and most dangerous communities in NYC and nothing ever happens to me...*knocks on wood*

Futhermore, as a resident of CH I walk home late at least once a week (and at times slightly under the influence) and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. Walking down fulton street late at night is pretty safe because there is always activity, either cars or fellow nightcrawlers. To me, this is one of the safest neighborhoods in NYC and a robbery or mugging is extremely rare in this area.

Sometimes, sh!t happens...

[Jack Krohn]

I disagree with Brookly Boi and "guest" above. I have white and black friends who have been mugged and the cops were just as jaded and matter-of-fact in both cases. None of the crimes were solved. The "inequality" argument sounds nice in theory, but in my experience it doesn't measure up in reality.

I think that the area is a major component of violent crime. Sure, crime can occur anywhere, but people, regardless of race, gender, etc. are far more likely to be victimized in places like Brownsville and East New York than in Fort Greene or Kensington.

[Fly in BedStuy]

[Brooklyn Boi]

[bifteck]

Very interesting.

[Brooklyn Zoo]

Clinton Hill is very safe, and much more so than just a few years ago. I'm a native Brooklynite and remember driving around and being told my my mother (Puerto Rican) that it was a very dangerous nabe. Right now, I feel very safe on the G line.

I'm not sure how much race has to do with the crime, but I suspect its more than some of you seem to think. I am guessing that is is because it's so sensitive a topic, but white people in my experience are often very quick to dismiss race as a factor in anything.

I do think that some people do feel threatened by a couple of black guys hannging out on the corner - and then call the nabe dangerous or sketchy. Just the prescence of the much maligned black man is enough to scare lots of people. It's a shame. I am not just speaking about white people - my mother (I am Puerto Rican) once said decided against moving to a Staten Island neeighborhood because there were too many black people. I thank God we never moved to Staten Island, but thats for another post...

[belzjm]

i happened upon this thread and wanted to comment because my friend was just mugged (he is 6'5" and built) about 2 weeks ago walking from the train in clinton hill. i will find out which because i don't want to give false information. a group of guys came up to him, hit him a few times, my friend ran back into the subway station...came out another entrance and the guys followed him, knocked him to the ground, hit him a few more times and took his money.

i don't live in clinton hill, but live in a neighboring hood so i won't make too many judgements but i do think that the previous posters who make it seem as though clinton hill is very safe should pay attention a little more. i've heard a couple other incidends my friend has mentioned in the last year or so he's been living there.

i also think people like not to talk about crime in such areas as a rapidly gentrifying clinton hill because it will negatively affect their property values.

[Brooklyn Zoo]

Crime happens everywhere in NYC, unfortunately. Just because we can cite muggings or other crimes in any giiven neighborhood does not mean it's unsafe.

The guy should have just gone to the station agent in the subway station, but hingsight is 20-20.


I've been here a year and a half, and have never had any problems. I've lived in NYC my entire life and have been mugged once, in Bed-Stuy, when I was ridiculously drunk and a very visibly easy target. I've lived in Bed-Stuy, Clinton Hill, East Village, and pre-hipster-hell-Williamsburg.

[Brooklyn Zoo]

Sorry... "here" is Clinton Hill. And I'm defending the truth more than anything.

[Boygabriel]

[Guest]

I am a white woman moving into Bed Stuy next week.

Brooklyn Boi and Fly In BedStuy's comments remind me of an ongoing conversation I have with a few of the guys I work with (they are black men, manual laborers who live mainly in Astoria houses). These men fear the cops a great deal, and will do *anything* to avoid trouble, even though they are totally law-abiding citizens (to my knowledge, they are much more upstanding than I am). The stories they tell about their run-ins with police, the way they are treated by police, and the lengths to which they will go to avoid the police are both astounding and heartbreaking.

Even if some of it is just about their fear and not about objective reality, their perception of what the police will do to them is totally real to them and it absolutely informs their behavior, so that fear impacts us all, really. And I will say without a doubt that they have been harassed by authority over a thousand things that I would never, ever think about. One of them is very careful with his children and will never buy them a bicycle even though they want one, because he doesn't want to get questioned about child abuse or get his kids taken away from him. WTF? Another has a great/terrible story about witnessing a guy getting mugged, being a good samaritan and calling the cops and seeing that this guy was OK, and then getting fingered for the mugging.

Serious!

I guess my point is that if white people and black people are going to live together well, it has to be okay to talk about this kind of fear and what it means to the people who live under it. What they go through totally sucks, and while I think (especially after talking to some black friends who did not grow up in the projects or run drugs as teenagers or spend any time in jail about this issue) that much of their fear is self-imposed, some of it is obviously not.

I think about that story about the guy getting mugged every time I do something blandly illegal (ie, smoke pot on the street or not fix the broken taillights on my truck) that would make my co-workers seriously raise their eyebrows at me and marvel aloud at how either my whiteness or my womanness or both allows me to get away with *everything*.

[Brooklyn Boi]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I grew up in Crown Heights while I attended PS 241. So after my dean gave me that little anecdote, one of the dynamics I began to observe was the Hasidic community in CH (which as you know is still very strong). In my 20+ years living in CH, I have NEVER heard of a Hasidic jew being mugged in CH. It may have happened, but I never heard about anything like that...which shows you how rare it is. Once when in H.S., a friend who lived on a primarily Hasidic block threw a party...since it was on a Friday night (their sabbath), the Hasids were banging on the apt. door, demanding the party stop, etc. As you can imagine, that didn't go over well w/ Black teens...so the party was shut down, and the party as well as what seemed to be the entire Hasid community spilled out onto the streets challenging each other. The cops came and whisked us into police cars and then let us go once we were blocks away...explaining that this was for our safety. The next day on page 4 of the Daily News, there was a blurb there about young Blacks rioting and mugging Hasids the night before. That's the only time I've ever heard of whites being mugged in CH while I was growing up there.

You got to wonder...how have they emained so safe. Sure they have a tight community...but that hasn't helped anyone else. And the Hasids aren't the most friendly people in the world...so if the pre-gentrified criminals of CH could live alongside them peacefully, they sure as hell could tolerate you. A large part of that was the fear that the Hasid would not only press charges for an attempted mugging, but have you charged for raping his wife, molesting his kid and dropping a crack pipe while trying to get away. But the bottom line is the Hasids were here well before Brooklyn had a "Clinton Hill".

[guestt]

I've lived in NYC since 1994 and in CH since 2000. I was violently mugged in 2003 in the Spring, but don't know who did it (was beaten unconscious and don't have clear recall).

I don't think it was a racial thing (I'm white and have fleeting memories of black boys standing over me) but just an opportunity. I also understand that many gang initiations begin Valentines day and continue through spring. Who knows.

But, to count the number of times that one has safely made it home down a dark, deserted street does not really prove anything. There could have been a violent mugging 2 hours before, or a half hour after, and you'll never know. Certainly, my incident got no press, Rev. Al did not appear at my hospital bed, and no real intensive manhunt ensued, mainly because I couldn't give any helpful description or details. As I've related in a separate post, I've seen 2 latinos beaten up here in CH, and several of my students (95% of whom are black) in BS have been beaten up on their way home from school.

Its curious to read people post about "scared looking" white people being targetted when the majority of victims is black, who (if they are from here) are justifiably more scared.

I also realize that people like to derive comfort from such acts as "never using a cell phone" and "taking the headphones out" which are common-sense things, but I have come to believe that there are times when one can just not ward off an attack, it just is going to happen, and its not as a result of something you did or didn't do. Believing you can always avoid it means accepting the blame when you are victimized, and I don't think that line of thought is valid.

[Guest]

I generally feel safe in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill, but I've had two bad experiences in the past month that are making me think again. A few weeks ago I was talking on my cell phone while walking down Clermont between Fulton and Greene when a guy sneaked up behind me and snatched the phone right out of my hand. He ran down the block and disappeared into the nearby housing complex on Fulton. It was a blackberry phone worth a couple a hundred dollars and it happened in the middle of the day! I had lived in the neighborhood for over a year and hadn't experienced anything like this until then. I reported it to the cops and was heartened by how concerned and interested they seemed to be (they drove me around to find the guy and had two detectives interview me about it).

Then, just this week, I came home from work to my apartment building on South Oxford Street and found the glass front door had been smashed in. Someone had thrown a rock from the street in what seemed like a pretty deliberate act of vandalism.

These two incidents made me think about being warier about crime in this neighborhood, but I guess it's still a hundred times better than what I hear it was like ten years ago.

Fortunately, I got the blackberry back when a public school teacher found it on one of her students and the glass was repaired pretty quickly after the co-op boarded forked out $300. But I wonder if I should expect similar things to happen or if these things are a sign things are getting worse. I've read the reports on Clinton Hill Blog about a spate of car windows getting smashed and I see a lot of glass on the street. What do others think?

[Boygabriel]

[Boygabriel]

At the 88th Pct community meeting last night the Pct Captain reported that all major crime is down 10-30%, depending on the category. I think grand larceny is up, but he attributed that to a lot of shopping bags being stolen at the Atlantic Center.
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