[booshwaw apathetic]

575 is on 5th between 15th and 16th. I'm totally against it! Section 8 is on thing but this is "supported housing" and that means ex-cons, sex offenders and recovering addicts. If I see any politicians involved with this proposal I'm voting for the other.

I really think this should be a topic post. But I'm sure mr. pious moderator will find a reason to move or delete it.

Anyway we should at least be able to get some liberal coonservative polemic mileage outta this. There's gonna a lot of cliche's so everyone put your stupid helmets on.

[pitu]

"mr. mod" here! not really sure I qualify as Pious; that seems like an awful lot to take on . . .

you're free to discuss Section 8 housing planned in Park Slope on this board if you can keep yourself from acting like a flaming troll.
Need a refresher on the Rules of Engagement ?
+ spell check optional but recommended
+ don't play if you're not enjoying the game
+ we'll pay more attention to you (and follow your argument better) if you register a name

[lostingreenwoodhts]

This is NOT sec. 8 (coming from another mod here). It's "sustainable housing" 60% from the shelter/rehab sys and 40% affordable housing from the community. Not casting any votes here, just the facts ( I sat through a pre-presentation). FAC has their stuff together with HPD.

Read the posts on the topic here http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32859&highlight=

AND

http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32662&highlight=

And to mirror pitu's points ( I think ): have an opinion, express it within the bounds of the forum and don't pick fights on yer first post.

Best of all, put your $$ were your booshwaw mouth is and show up to the community group meeting or CB7's public hearing...where you can voice your concerns and ask questions.

See you there, sans bucket on my head...
_________________
A word or two from the highest point in Brooklyn--Greenwood Hts.
...elevation, not just inebriation...

[molly coddle]

if raising this issue is trolling then i'm sure it will be justifiably ignored. i dont see why i have to enjoy myself here. why cant i be bitter and self-embroiled?

is the game of the self-righteous gain-say really that enjoyable to you?

screw it! ghettoize the whole freakin neighborhood for all i care. if it soothes your bourgeois apologetic soul. i just hope all those affluent hipsters dont take their money with them when they leave.

i hope i dont have too many spelling errors!

[kensingtonmom]

Here is a letter from the Executive director of FAC.

Diversity means economic diversity also. Not just Benetton ads of beautiful well groomed people with nice skin tones.
_____________________

Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:22:59 PM
Subject: [south_south_slope] Another Invitation to tour FAC's current supportive hsg. building - 2/24

Over the past several weeks, there have been a lot of questions and speculation
about FAC’s proposed development at 575 5th Avenue . Many people are wondering,
what is supportive housing? Who will live in the building? Will it be an
attractive addition to our community? In response to these questions, we look
forward to presenting facts about affordable, supportive housing in general and
specifics about the proposed 575 5th Avenue building at meetings on both 2/13
and 2/15. In addition to these meetings and to the tour/open house that we
hosted this past weekend, I’d like to also extend another invitation to everyone
to tour a similar affordable supportive housing project that FAC developed at
551 Warren Street between 3rd and 4th Avenues on Saturday, February 24th from 2
pm to 4 pm.

FAC developed 551 Warren Street, an award winning 68 unit affordable, supportive
housing building, over five years ago and we continue to manage the property and
select the tenants – at least 50% of whom are from the local community and all
of whom have to go through a thorough tenant selection process to ensure that
they can meet their lease obligations and live independently with the on-site
social service supports that are provided. An entire floor of apartments at 551
Warren Street is set aside for senior citizens. Apartments would be similarly
set aside at 575 5th Avenue for senior citizens and youth aging out of foster
care since the community has expressed a desire to prioritize affordable housing
for those individuals and 100% of the apartments for low-income folks (earning
up to a maximum of $29,775 annually) would be set aside for local residents. We
would also work to maximize the number of local individuals who would apply for
the apartments for formerly
homeless individuals.

You are not alone in your concerns. When FAC first proposed the 551 Warren
Street building more than five years ago, some of the neighbors and civic groups
in the community shared several of the concerns that you all have expressed
about the proposed 575 5th Avenue project. Despite those original concerns, they
have come to embrace the tenants and the building and recognize it as an asset
to the community.

I am hopeful that as many of you as possible will come out to tour 551 Warren
Street on Saturday, February 24th from 2 to 4 pm so that your opinion about
FAC’s proposed 575 5th Avenue building can be as well informed as possible. I
have also attached an information sheet from the Corporation for Supportive
Housing, a national organization, which describes what supportive housing is in
general as well as a Myths and Fact Sheet that NYC HPD has written about
supportive housing including the cost effectiveness to all of us as tax payers
to house low income people including those who are homeless and have mental
health issues, in affordable, supportive housing.

Please do come to see what affordable, supportive housing is (and isn’t) on 2/24
anytime from 2 – 4 pm – 551 Warren Street between 3rd and 4th Avenues.

Thanks - Michelle



Michelle de la Uz
Executive Director

Fifth Avenue Committee, Inc.
621 DeGraw Street
Brooklyn, NY 11217

(718) 237-2017 ext. 116 office
(718) 237-5366 fax
(646) 285-2978 cell
mdelauz@fifthave. org
www.fifthave.org

[lostingreenwoodhts]

Also highlighted on brownstoner.com today:

http://brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2.....7/02/fac_development.html
_________________
A word or two from the highest point in Brooklyn--Greenwood Hts.
...elevation, not just inebriation...

[Drea]

So what do you guys think about it?

[Guest]

Kensingtonmom has the ultimate moral authority on this board - she should decide.

[nicholas george kotsonis]

If people need to decide about this project,then they should observe the properties that FAC currently run and manage. 231 5th Avenue is one of their buildings that, in my tainted opinion, has blemished the revival of 5th Avenue.

Talking about affordable housing is nice in theory, but if the organization cannot implement and manage it's facilities properly and in a manner that will not cause the area to fall once more into disarray and blight, then the project should be rejected.

[friendlypitbull]

What is your issue with 231 5th - I think a large % of owners and merchants do a horrible job of making 5th ave attractive (garbage everywhere, unneccesary full roll-down gates, graffitti not cleaned promptly) but I dont notice that 231 is any better or worse.

[Smitty]

i have to admit I'm a little scared. The idea of an influx of homeless/drug addicts doesn't sit right with me. The neighborhood seems to be on an upswing and is currently very safe...I can only imagine the scene outside OTB once this is built.

[mrdennis]

Hey Foxy, I think the Germans had a program in the 30s and 40s you might be interested in.
MOD NOTE: mrdennis is not crazy - he's just responding to a trolling post that's been removed.

As for me, I see great hope in the idea that people under prior hardships trying to reclaim their lives. Any failures of these facilities are that of the management, social directors and the public.

[TeaFolks]

As someone moving to the neighborhood, I'm concerned with this news. Can anyone tell me who the local government representative is, or who to write to regarding this issue?


Edited b/c I read a little more about Warren St. and am trying to keep an open mind. Will there be security in the building? Will there be a no-tolerance poilicy for offenders?

[belzjm]

I have to say I'm rather disgusted by some of the comments on here regarding this topic. To those of you that are against or upset about this news....what exactly is it that has you so upset? Is it seeing those trying to get back on their feet find permanent shelter instead of sleeping outside? These places are monitored and looked after by a multitude of agencies. If you are planning to move to this neghborhood and this has you upset before you have knowlesge of what it even entails, I suggest you look at another neighborhood....perhaps a nice area I've heard of called Westchester.

You all do realize that when interviewing for co-ops that nothing is typically asked either of drug addiction nor sexual offense? And you do realize that those wall streeters you are buying a brownstone next to quite possibly do a ton of cocaine, among other things...

I suggest for those that have issues with this, they should absolutely hit up the meeting.

EVERYONE deserves shelter. And no...that doesn't mean that they should be all put in one area together so that everyone of one class or situation or illness be alienated. That's called segregation.

[TeaFolks]

belzim:

are you saying you don't think this will have an effect on the quality of life in the immediate area?

I have lived near several supported housing buildings (though perhaps they weren't run as this will be) and here's what I have experienced outside them/on the corners: panhandling, drinking, loitering, and smoking (drugs). I think that's what people are afraid of.

[Smitty]

The part about the reformed sex offenders moving in is scary. Any young woman would think so.

[kensingtonmom]

[belzjm]

teafolks: i encounter many of the things you speak of outside the key food on 7th avenue, outside most middle schools, and pretty much in most neighborhoods in most cities. and no...i am in fact not afraid of panhandlers who oftentimes are homeless and are trying to scrape some change together. nor am i afraid of smoking...if i were i wouldn't walk by union hall. loitering...nope...not scary to me. drinkin....plan to do it tonight.

i think what you are implying is that you'd rather not see these things done by people of either a lower class than yourself, or those who had a substance abuse problem, or a mental illness.

granted, i am slightly concerned about past sex offenders, although there are agencies in place to keep tabs on those living in places like these, not to mention security. and there are many sex offenders already living all over brooklyn in case you were unaware. do you think we should find all of the past sex offenders and banish them to guam?? or you just don't want them in park slope?? which is it??

these people you speak of are NOT useless objects in society as some of you suggest. they are human beings. some with serious problems, yes but to simply banish them from your minds is so un-brooklyn like in my mind. don't judge before you know the full details.

[Smitty]

Yeah, I've checked the site out before with the registered sex offenders...there aren't many if any at all in my area. The idea that a group would move in is not pleasant.

I sympathesize with the affordable housing element. I couldn't afford to live anywhere else. My income is currently within the range of the affordable income people and I live in this neighborhood.

[Foxy news]

[Foxy news]

Some people don't want former sex offenders or recovering drug addicts purposely moved to their neighborhood. The mentally disabled are another story and I apologise for any confusion there (and the double post).

[sickntired]

[TeaFolks]

[sprite]

[Drano]

[alafairnadia]

[ilovecarbs]

Sprite,

I could not agree with you more. The reason why I picked this neighborhood over so many others is that I knew I would feel safe walking home alone, as well as living alone. I am small in size and female as well, which obviously makes me an easy target.

I live on the other side of the slope, so I don't have a personal issue with this, but the principle of the matter is that you are introducing elements that are driving down the quality of life in a neighborhood.

There is nothing wrong with affordable housing. The problem here is WHO it's housing.

And to anyone who wants to start throwng a tantrum about how this is all about rich people being selfish, please spare everyone the misery of having to read your nonsensical one-sided post.

[Drano]

I'm just saying I think there's a valid middle ground between, "Nope, don't see any problems there", and "There goes the freakin' neighborhood." Think about the extent to which you would check out a prospective tenant for your basement apartment (heh) - and you still might end up with a lemon. Of course, the neighborhood as a whole is nobody's private property, but if you live there (or here, I guess it's kinda the Slope) it's natural enough to be asking some hard questions about what's going to be happening. Presumably, people will be given the opportunity to do so on the 24th.

[alafairnadia]

I love how a few folks complaining are petite or small woman. uh. like ... 90% of women are petite and/or small. even the ones that are fat aren't necessarily strong enough to defend themselves. women in this city are assaulted and killed in every neighborhood. a vast majority of those assaults and murders are committed by people known to the victims. that facility is not going to change that fact. if you walk around in terror of being assaulted by a stranger, though, you're increasing your chances of being subjected to such treatment exponentially. I suggest a self defense class and an air of self-confidence.
_________________
like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote

[ilovecarbs]

Just to clarify, when I said I was aware if the fact that i was as easy target. I did not say that I was more of a target than a fat woman. And I think its better to be aware than to have a false sense of bravado that usually causes one to end up in unfortunate situations. That does not equate to me walking around in terror. I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself.

I simply meant that I feel more comfortable in a neighborhood that is not notorious for late night shootings, murders and rapes. I agree with your point that park slope is far from a crime free utopia and these crimes can happen anytime to anyone anywhere, but the chances are lower here than if I lived in a high crime area. Even if I do have a black belt

[MichaelKeys]

Quick question: where exactly is 575 5th Ave?

Buttermilk Bar is 577 on the corner of 16th and facing it towards the north, across 16th, is a Municipal Parking Lot. Next door to that is a laundromat which is 565 5th Ave. So, btwn 565 and 577 is a parking lot. I'm confused.
_________________
"If Elvis is the King of Rock 'n' Roll, then Chuck Berry must be Master of the Universe."

[Rose]

The proposed facility will be where the municipal parking lot is now.

[alafairnadia]

oh, I agree with you in many ways. but when I hear about rapes in nice buildings on the upper east side, or shootings of actresses in the lower east side, I stop worrying about random violence - it's going to happen. shit happens. and being a black belt isn't what I mean - I took a self defense course (I actually won the course for myself and two friends at a raffle at a pro-choice event) and I really liked a lot of what they told me about how to avoid being the victim of random crime: how to avoid getting hit by a gunshot, how to deal with being threatened with a knife, etc. and, last year (or was it the year before? I don't recall) when two guys attending a birthday party across the street from my home pushed in behind me in my foyer and wanted to get to know me, these skills kicked in and, I like to think, my forceful tone and serious response to their behavior saved me from unknown consequences.
I really recommend a self defense class for any woman - petite or not - to boost self confidence and increase safety.

also, I really recommend not walking around at night, especially, wearing an ipod or cell phone. not because of fear of getting, say, hit by a car or fear even of being robbed, but because you can't hear someone running up behind you, or saying some shit to you. I see women get off the subway all the time in the evening/night with their headphones still on and consider pulling them aside to say that they're increasing their chances of being assaulted by a random stranger. so I think I'm more paranoid than the average woman about these things and the idea of a facility like that opening up doesn't really upset me.

and no, I was not in any way indicting you for any type of sizeism - I was just noting that when people use words like petite or small, we often think about someone very short and slender, and it isn't only women fitting that description that are vulnerable to attack. so please understand that no offense was intended.
_________________
like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote

[lostingreenwoodhts]

OK, as someone who actually attended tonight's meeting, I'll say one thing...

I was a good discourse and Q&A and I'll report in the morn...

For all those concerned...be at the CB7 public hearing this Thursday (see above links) to express your concerns and vet your questions. More in the morn. Long nite, well worth it.

Nite.
_________________
A word or two from the highest point in Brooklyn--Greenwood Hts.
...elevation, not just inebriation...

[sweet tea]

certainly, i understand the unease, displeasure, and even fear that this project provokes.

but where, exactly, should these people live? given that they have to live somewhere?
_________________
Bumping ancient threads with bot-like bullshit

[brooklynpotter]

i need to be honest... i'm pretty bleeding heart and this doesn't thrill me. we already have the armory down here, with its cast of characters and likely (from what i've witnessed with my eyes) boyfriends of the women who are pretty drugged up. and one of the buildings here on my street does act as an SRO, where the shelter women and their boyfriends spend the night together. it's not so fun walking home alone here at night.

i don't want to be one of those people who wants to hide away the sick and homeless and former lawbreakers but yes, this does lower my property value. sorry, but it does. and i'm far more concerned about former sex offenders, because the recidivism (sp?) rate is so high
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[TeaFolks]

[erikka]

Let me guess who gets to foot the bill for this project....

Why does this project require a brand-new building. And what value are these people going to bring to the neighborhood to justify the cost of building this? I would rather see an existed building rehabbed than a brand new building built on a street already suffering from the blight of too much bad development.

Can I say how not thrilled I am about this idea being right around the corner from me. This sounds more like a shelter than affordable housing, which is pretty much impossible to find in the area if you're making less than $40K a year. I'd rather see housing for the people already in the area who are getting pushed out due to rapidly increasing rents.

Elderly people, fine--I agree that elderly people need housing. But formely homeless people (and c'mon--you know there's a reason they're homeless--be it drug addiction, mental illness, or whatever), and ex cons? As much as these people may be trying to rehab themselves, there is still a huge risk to the community involved.

[lostingreenwoodhts]

Great meeting last night. Over 50+ residents and community activists (confirming head count today).

While the meeting started off with the fund raising efforts to lower the $80K bill for fighting the 15th St. Katan Tower ant the BSA and updates on development sites in the area, the FAC presentation became the major focus of the evening.

FAC did an excellent job attempting to dispel some of the myths of sustainable housing, the incorporation of the affordable housing component and the screening process for applicants who wish to live in the new 49 unit studio apt. building.

Facts (hope I get all of this 100% correct):

1. 60/40 split: 60% of mentally handicapped (under treatment) from the City's shelter system and 40% for local single applicants making less that $29K (whom may also be under some sort of State or City program).

2. Screening process for ALL applicants including background check (mental, criminal, credit, etc.) and paneled screening process (with potential community input). "House rules" to ensure the applicants not only follow the rules of the building (obvious ones here about single occupancy only, no drug use, paying rent on time, etc.), but also to make sure applicants become part of "the community" rather just transplants to it.

3. FAC has a great track record creating more than 600 affordable housing units and currently manages 400 units.

Community concerns ranged from the screening process (concern of ex-cons, sex offenders, ex-drug abusers...all potential applicants), the fact FAC hat not approached the community until recently for input into the process, a concern about the loss of parking in a commercial district and MOSTLY the questioning of the "fast tracking" of the ULURP process (the City selling FFAC the parking lot for a buck and its change of use). Seems that while the mandatory public hearing by CB7 is scheduled this Thursday ( 02/15/07 6:30 pm @ St. Michael's-Emmanuel Church on Prospect Ave. btwn 5th/6th Aves), BP Markowitz is holding his "stop #2" public hearing BEFORE the Community Board votes on the FAC/HPD application next Wednesday 2/21/07.

It was suggested that folks should reach out individually to the BP's office and ask for an extension. The CB will be formally requesting that as well.

The community wants more time to ask questions, review the facts and hopefully have some additional input into the project than they have had to date...which other than several meetings with CB7, they have had none.

The biggest concern expressed, other than the lack of community input, was that most folks felt FAC/HPD did not think "outside of the box" and adequately address the needs for senior housing and youths aging out of the foster care system, points brought up in the original discussions in October 2005.

While preference will be given to seniors and these young adults, it's still part of the standard 60/40 split.

Thursday's CB7 public hearing ought to be interesting. Kudos to FAC and HPD for coming before the community, giving a comprehensive presentation and fielding all questions...rational or not.

Personally I am not sure which way to go on this one and will reserve my final "personal thoughts" till after the CB7 Public Hearing.
_________________
A word or two from the highest point in Brooklyn--Greenwood Hts.
...elevation, not just inebriation...

[homeowner]

I can't say that I blame the folks that are concerned about who will be moving in, but I think that its important that every neighborhood do its part. Places like Crown Heights, Bed Stuy, Clinton Hill, Brownsville, and East New York already have an overabundance of supportive housing programs for everyone from the developmentally disabled to hard-core felons trying to transition back into society.

The area of Crown Heights North is home to 35 such facilities. Many of them are quiet and unassuming places where the clients/residents cause little to no disruption. The bad apples are places where they were placed by forces outside of the community and are run by people that have little to no respect or consideration for the neighbors. I don't get the impression that FAC is that type of organization. It seems that FAC is seeking to cater to both the needs of local community residents that need supportive housing and the concerns of the neighborhood. If you read the letter posted above, they seem to be focusing on setting aside housing for seniors and children aging out of foster care, not a more hard core set of clients. Merely the fact that they are willing to hold open houses, take questions puts them a step above some groups that run similar programs.

Rather than having knee-jerk reactions, why not wander by their other facility and take a look around. Ask the folks who live near it if they have problems, and what their issues are. These folks are your neighbors. Why send them off to Staten Island or the outer reaches of Queens? Shouldn't the community make a place for them to live as they rebuild their lives?

[belzjm]

Rather than having knee-jerk reactions, why not wander by their other facility and take a look around. Ask the folks who live near it if they have problems, and what their issues are. These folks are your neighbors. Why send them off to Staten Island or the outer reaches of Queens? Shouldn't the community make a place for them to live as they rebuild their lives?


I don't think I could agree more....

[brooklynpotter]

i'm running to work so try not to rip me to shreds while i'm gone.

homeowner, this is all nice and fine. but there is a reason i don't live in bed stuy or crown heights or east new york. please don't make me go into all the reasons because it's pointless. most of us live here, in PH or PS, because we don't want to live in those places.

why isn't this happening in north slope? there's still property up there. think about that: it would be protested up the wazoo.

i am not saying that people who are homeless, mentally ill, aging out of the system, felons, etc., shouldn't have places to live. (well, child rapists are a whole other category...) i'm just saying that if i wanted to live in that community i wouldn't have moved to park slope, and i wouldn't have an apartment that's raised in price so substantially since i bought it that it's worth half a millions dollars. which is insansity.

but, think it terribly snobbish and uncaring and whatever if you want, i don't live in a half a million dollar apartment to be surrounded by crazy people. i already have a section 8 rent stabilized loon above me who makes me life a livging hell, and the last thing i want is more of them around.
_________________
what would you tell me, if i could hear you speaking?--t.r.

[MichaelKeys]

[erikka]

The other thing about this is that it's going to be 50 units--larger than any other building nearby. That is a not just a blip on the map--that's a major influx of new people to a relatively small area. Are these people currently community residents? And once again, I ask: what are they bringing to the community that will make it a better place to live?

These units are studios--which is great if you're single. Not exactly affordable housing for families, which I would guess makes up the bulk of this neighborhood.

I agree with MichaelKeys--safety is a major issue around this neighborhood. I stopped taking the R train at night because the three block walk is desolate and feels unsafe.

Someone joked on another board about "limosine liberals" vs. "prius progressives" and the former finally showing their true colors by opposing the project, which I find somewhat laughable given this neighborhood is still fairly working class and ethnically mixed. More like "mazda moderates" or something.

[TeaFolks]

I contacted Community Board 7 and asked what local politicaians we can contact to voice our concerns. They responded as follows: