anyone know how often they serve roast suckling pig? i would looooove me some o' dat!!! _________________ Get your paws off my canned chicken
Yavel Regular
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 168 Location: The Boneyard
Wed Sep 13, 06 8:13 pm EST
I bet that pig gets good reception.
raw "Way Too Incestial"
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 2036
Wed Sep 13, 06 8:20 pm EST
shishkab wrote:
ohmigod :shock:
anyone know how often they serve roast suckling pig? i would looooove me some o' dat!!!
Ah, man...I LOVE pigs -- alive, outside of my body, that is. And you're a VERY CUTE dog, who kind of reminds me of a cute little pig, who once who ran up to me and wagged his tail. I confess bacon is damn tasty, but after that little pig wagged his tail at me....
Jamzer Lifer
Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Posts: 911 Location: Park F'ing Slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 11:53 am EST
Rosewater is one of my favorite restaurants in all of NYC. I wish they would improve the service a little, but it is still fantastic.
They do the pig roast every Fall. Yummmmmmmmyyyyyyyyy!
findcate Local
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 243 Location: park slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 1:28 pm EST
Jesus, that's totally disgusting. Pigs as intelligent (at least) as your dog or your 3 year old.
Jesus, that's totally disgusting. Pigs as intelligent (at least) as your dog or your 3 year old.
so are octopi, but that doesn't seem to stop most folks from enjoying eating Frutta de Mare, or somesuch. they're just not as cuddly, i guess.
but i've got a question, cate (and it's a serious one -- i promise i am not trying to bait you into an argument. it's so hard to tell sometimes who's trying to pick a fight with whom on a board like this): what does intelligence have to do with it? for instance, do you think it's alright to eat chicken because they're clearly not as intelligent? or do you choose not to eat meat at all? _________________ Get your paws off my canned chicken
findcate Local
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 243 Location: park slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 4:47 pm EST
No meat for me, I empathize with chickens too. I guess it's just that pigs have the same brain structure as us, they nurture and love their young, and they have to suffer thru unbearable conditions and abuse being raised as meat. I guess the intelligence of pigs just makes me empathize with them, so I see the pig in that photo as a tortured corpse more than an appetizing meal and I would be totally grossed out if I walked past it on the sidewalk. I think it's really intrusive of rosewater. I have to accept that people eat meat in this world, it's just that we have a system of brutally torturing them to make it cheap so we can stuff ourselves on it everyday, and it seems to me like it's not worth it. Especially in a country where so many people are obese. I shouldn't have posted anyway, i'm sure i'm not making any friends and I can debate the subject until i'm blue in the face and it won't change much. just pointing out that not everyone enjoys the sight of a roasting pig.
i guess on the food front you and i would simply have to agree to disagree, which still wouldn't make us enemies
but you clarified your position and brought up a good point: your witnessing a pig roast saddens, angers, and horrifies you. if i felt that way, i wouldn't want to subjected to it, either. i can respect that, so i apologize for acting so excitedly about something which truly upset you.
shake hands? _________________ Get your paws off my canned chicken
pitu Fake Buddhist
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 6489 Location: Utopian Park Slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 5:03 pm EST
it *is* a potentially shocking image, whether you eat meat or not
(maybe you don't like bus exhaust on your dinner, for example)
Anyway, I made it a two click process to get to the image on purpose
I'd bet that particular animal was not factory farmed, if it makes you feel any better. More of a Berkshire boutiquey Slow Food movement kinda life . . .
I eat meat, but I try and stick to the free-range, healthy-living kind.
And I think if you eat meat, you'd better be able to look it in the face!
I just got back from a farm . . .
And I think if you eat meat, you'd better be able to look it in the face! I just got back from a farm . . .
couldn't agree with you more. i won't get into specifics, but i have had first-hand dealings with my own food. was working on a farm at one point and was willing to do things other people weren't. when asked about it, i told folks that i have the utmost respect for my food, but that if i'm willing to eat it i ought to be willing to take its life. i'll probably get slammed on this list for admitting that, but i found it to be a matter of respect towards the creature. my thinking (though probably considered extreme by many in this neighborhood) was that if i felt funny about sacrificing an animal, then i wasn't worthy to eat it afterwards. _________________ Get your paws off my canned chicken
findcate Local
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 243 Location: park slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 5:21 pm EST
wow, that is really kind of you, shishkab--thanks for understanding my point of view.
cheers! (shakes hands)
yep, Pitu, I hear you about the shocking aspect of the image. I get a bit freaked out at the grotesque statues of pigs in front of meat stores and on signage too. Just seems like adding insult to injury. I know we've talked about this topic here before, about eating free-range and all that, and you're probably right that the pig probably was free range--I know rosewater buys organic produce and all that.
Isa Crabby Native
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 526 Location: St Johns Plizizace
Thu Sep 14, 06 6:46 pm EST
But free range is an un-regulated term. I think a trip to the "free range" farm to check it out would be necessary, if you do indeed care about that kind of thing. Or at least an email or a phone call asking exactly what the conditions are that the animal is being kept it in. You can't depend on an unregulated label. But I agree, keep that shit inside. I actually passed by when they were starting the fire, I would have been horrified to see a whole dead pig being roasted.
pitu Fake Buddhist
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 6489 Location: Utopian Park Slope
Thu Sep 14, 06 6:59 pm EST
Isa wrote:
But free range is an un-regulated term. I think a trip to the "free range" farm to check it out would be necessary, if you do indeed care about that kind of thing. Or at least an email or a phone call asking exactly what the conditions are that the animal is being kept it in. You can't depend on an unregulated label.
The pity is, we can't exactly depend on regulated terms either.
No doubt you are familiar with the various battles over organic labeling and agribiz.
I agree a visit to the farm is a good idea, but not exactly practical for most people. And I do indeed care about that kind of thing and I *have* done some farm visiting - been working on a project about organic/free-range sourcing.
Last edited by pitu on Thu Sep 14, 06 9:25 pm; edited 3 times in total
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Thu Sep 14, 06 7:17 pm EST
Isa wrote:
But I agree, keep that shit inside. I actually passed by when they were starting the fire, I would have been horrified to see a whole dead pig being roasted.
I see your point (and findcate's), but the fact is that you can't roast a pig over an open fire indoors.
Biscuit used to have a fantastic pig roast once a month (before they closed), and I think they used to roast it off site and then bring it in. Maybe that would be a better solution.
Last edited by Carnivore on Thu Sep 14, 06 10:37 pm; edited 5 times in total
raw "Way Too Incestial"
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 2036
Thu Sep 14, 06 9:04 pm EST
findcate wrote:
Jesus, that's totally disgusting. Pigs as intelligent (at least) as your dog or your 3 year old.
I agree with you, Findcate. However, I do respect meat-eaters who look their pig in the eye more than the meat-eaters who live in denial of where their meat comes from.
Little Tommy, "Mommy, what are chick nuggets? Where do they come from?"
Mommy, "They're little puffs of protein to help you grow straight from Mc Donalds, Little Tommy."
Isa Crabby Native
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 526 Location: St Johns Plizizace
Thu Sep 14, 06 11:37 pm EST
pitu wrote:
Isa wrote:
But free range is an un-regulated term. I think a trip to the "free range" farm to check it out would be necessary, if you do indeed care about that kind of thing. Or at least an email or a phone call asking exactly what the conditions are that the animal is being kept it in. You can't depend on an unregulated label.
The pity is, we can't exactly depend on regulated terms either.
No doubt you are familiar with the various battles over organic labeling and agribiz.
I agree a visit to the farm is a good idea, but not exactly practical for most people. And I do indeed care about that kind of thing and I *have* done some farm visiting - been working on a project about organic/free-range sourcing.
Oh, I didn't mean you, sorry if that sounded snotty. I meant if one cares about that sort of thing.
I agree about organic labeling being misleading, but at least there are some guidlines and accountability. As far as visiting farms not being practical, it totally isn't. Which is why I said if you care about that sort of thing. I know that there are some people that are committed to it and doing things as humanely as possible and that's cool, just saying free range is too often just a meaningless term designed to make people feel better.
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4960 Location: the jewish
Fri Sep 15, 06 9:18 am EST
1. First of all, I wish we still had karma, cuz i wanted to applaud everyone for this thread. it's neat to see the internet be for something besides fighting or flirting once in a while.
2. I have mixed feelings about the "take it inside" school of thought. For the vegetarians/vegans walking by, seeing the pig is uncomfortable and bad. I get that. But I think it's weird that so many people eat meat and yet wouldn't want to look at what meat actually IS. Not only the meat-is-a-dead-animal part, but also the a-pig-is-not-a-pork-chop part.
I think it's very strange that we (meat-eaters) have gotten so used to buying only very specfic parts of the animals we eat, already neatly wrapped in plastic and divorced from any sense of whence they came. I don't think you should have to buy a whole cow at the supermarket, but i do find it creepy how we've built up taboos against eating large parts of the animals we are killing in order to eat, that it's "weird" or even "gross" to eat meat that isn't a pork chop, steak, or chicken breast. (well, except for chicken nuggets and hot dogs, which are a whole different discussion of creepy.) check out a korean restaurant menu and tell your friends you're thinking of getting "beef feet in broth" and you'll see what i'm trying to say.
i'm having trouble explaining what i think this has to do with roasting a pig on the street, but there's some connection. why would it be better to cook the pig off the premises and truck it in? why should it not be okay to roast a pig if it's okay to grill hamburgers? and i don't mean to say i'm not a part of this mindset -- while part of me has a real tooth for roast pig (particularly a north carolina pig-pickin, but i digress), part of me thought "WEIRD, cooking a pig on the sidewalk. WEIRD...."
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Fri Sep 15, 06 10:02 am EST
sweet tea wrote:
1. First of all, I wish we still had karma, cuz i wanted to applaud everyone for this thread. it's neat to see the internet be for something besides fighting or flirting once in a while.
2. I have mixed feelings about the "take it inside" school of thought. For the vegetarians/vegans walking by, seeing the pig is uncomfortable and bad. I get that. But I think it's weird that so many people eat meat and yet wouldn't want to look at what meat actually IS. Not only the meat-is-a-dead-animal part, but also the a-pig-is-not-a-pork-chop part.
I think it's very strange that we (meat-eaters) have gotten so used to buying only very specfic parts of the animals we eat, already neatly wrapped in plastic and divorced from any sense of whence they came. I don't think you should have to buy a whole cow at the supermarket, but i do find it creepy how we've built up taboos against eating large parts of the animals we are killing in order to eat, that it's "weird" or even "gross" to eat meat that isn't a pork chop, steak, or chicken breast. (well, except for chicken nuggets and hot dogs, which are a whole different discussion of creepy.) check out a korean restaurant menu and tell your friends you're thinking of getting "beef feet in broth" and you'll see what i'm trying to say.
i'm having trouble explaining what i think this has to do with roasting a pig on the street, but there's some connection. why would it be better to cook the pig off the premises and truck it in? why should it not be okay to roast a pig if it's okay to grill hamburgers? and i don't mean to say i'm not a part of this mindset -- while part of me has a real tooth for roast pig (particularly a north carolina pig-pickin, but i digress), part of me thought "WEIRD, cooking a pig on the sidewalk. WEIRD...."
I agree with everything you said.
Some of the vegetarians obviously took real personal offense at having to see the pig being roasted, but the solution is clearly not to cancel all pig roasts, which is what the "keep that shit inside" idea would mean. I suggested the "roast offsite and bring it in" idea not so that the people eating the pig wouldn't see it, but to protect those who would be offended by involuntarily seeing the process of its preparation.
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4960 Location: the jewish
Fri Sep 15, 06 10:13 am EST
oh ya, ya, carnivore, i know YOU'd eat beef feet with me....
when did it get weird to see food prepared? even half the stuff at the grocery stuff is already prepared. thoughts?
alafairnadia radical quellist
Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 8272 Location: not washington ave. btwn sterling & st. johns
Fri Sep 15, 06 10:49 am EST
sweet tea wrote:
oh ya, ya, carnivore, i know YOU'd eat beef feet with me....
when did it get weird to see food prepared? even half the stuff at the grocery stuff is already prepared. thoughts?
I'm sure there's a more academically, scholarly worded explanation for this, but my guess is that it has to do with urbanization in the early 20th century. part of living in a city meant leaving behind rural practices like slaughtering a pig in your backyard.
in terms of the coolness factor ... well, I'd imagine that it wasn't that cool to be the hick on your block that still killed live chickens instead of getting them beheaded at your local butcher.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is why it's so uncommon to see real butcher shops anymore - most people don't even realize you can DECIDE how thick you want a pork chop to be - forget where the damn thing came from.
anyway, incoherent ramblings while I hide from work. _________________ like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote
sweet tea Cooler Ham
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 4960 Location: the jewish
Fri Sep 15, 06 11:39 am EST
alafairnadia wrote:
part of living in a city meant leaving behind rural practices like slaughtering a pig in your backyard.
good points (like the chicken thing too). isn't it funny that some cities -- chicago comes to mind, also kansas city -- formed precisely in order to slaughter animals to feed the desire of urbanites to not slaughter animals?
alafairnadia radical quellist
Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 8272 Location: not washington ave. btwn sterling & st. johns
Fri Sep 15, 06 11:49 am EST
sweet tea wrote:
alafairnadia wrote:
part of living in a city meant leaving behind rural practices like slaughtering a pig in your backyard.
good points (like the chicken thing too). isn't it funny that some cities -- chicago comes to mind, also kansas city -- formed precisely in order to slaughter animals to feed the desire of urbanites to not slaughter animals?
what baffles me is the issue of scale. for instance, I have NO CLUE how many people a whole pig would realistically feed. not gorging-at-a-party feed, bur normal size meals. so I'm always confused at the huge number of animals slaughtered - I just find it so hard to believe we need that much meat every day. ugh. and does it all get used? do they kill fewer animals during lent? _________________ like a smoked meat with an earthy youth overnote
Ando Newbie
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 36 Location: West Bushwick
Fri Sep 15, 06 4:27 pm EST
The New Yorker ran a great article by Bill Buford who learns how to be a butcher while in Italy and then buys a whole pig at the Union Square Greenmarket to chop up and eat (in many many portions). Addresses a lot of the issues you're discussing here, how he feels much more appreciative of his food and all.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060501fa_fact
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
Sat Sep 16, 06 12:41 am EST
Ando wrote:
The New Yorker ran a great article by Bill Buford who learns how to be a butcher while in Italy and then buys a whole pig at the Union Square Greenmarket to chop up and eat (in many many portions). Addresses a lot of the issues you're discussing here, how he feels much more appreciative of his food and all.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060501fa_fact
He incorporated this story into his recent book Heat, (which was totally awesome, by the way).
Carnivore Brooklyn Snark
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 13566 Location: St Johns Pl and Underhill
very powerful and sobering. and yes, quite relevant.
for those of us who LOVE our meat, it's an important read...
thanks, Carnivore. _________________ Get your paws off my canned chicken
raw "Way Too Incestial"
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 2036
Sun Sep 17, 06 11:34 am EST
sweet tea wrote:
2. I have mixed feelings about the "take it inside" school of thought. For the vegetarians/vegans walking by, seeing the pig is uncomfortable and bad. I get that.
When it comes to seeing dead pigs, I ain't a wuss!
I'd like to clarify that as a vegetarian of over ten years who would never willingly eat a pig, I think it's GOOD to roast a pig in public. It's GOOD to educate people on where their "meat" comes from.
I also support hunters who kill wild animals and consume all parts of the animal.
What makes me "uncomfortable," as a vegetarian, are Americans who deny the origin of their bacon, attack other cultures for eating animals that Americans consider pets, and criticize hunters for being "cruel."
I respect meat-eaters who respect and acknowledge the lives of the animals they eat. I respect meat-eaters who look their fish, pigs, and lambs in the eye.
Not every vegetarian is some bleeding-heart animal lover, who faints at the sight of chicken wings and is eager to throw red paint on a fur coat.
Call me the selfish and immoral bastard vegetarian, but as long as I have steamed Chinese wheat gluten balls on my plate, I could give a hoot about what others have on their plates.
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