journalist request: (still) hating on the Slope

booklaw

That may all be true, but our real estate values do not seem to be suffering because of the hatred... and prospective Slopers do not seem to be recoiling in horror at the invective, so let's not get too upset about it.

raw

Carnivore wrote: [quote=raw]Love Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, Queens, and even Staten Island. If you're a real New Yorker, throw any hate you have some where else.

@import url(http://skreemr.com/styles/embed.css);

	Beasty Boys - An Open Letter to NYC
	Found at skreemr.com

HELLYEA!

ahab

hamilton

[quote=Ahab]

*************************
Was that a moderator ?

mack daddy

Subject: Slope Sloth

Loved or Hated but Never Ignored.

snickers76

I was born and raised in Brooklyn, and it is the only place I have ever lived. I grew up in Midwood, spent a couple of college years on the Canarsie/Georgetown border and then moved to Seagate for about 5 years. I moved in with my fiance, who lived in Williamsburg. Stayed there fore two. We moved here to Park Slope in November of 2007 and I have to say, this is my favorite neighborhood of them all, with Seagate coming in a close second (I mean, the private beach, lighthouse, buoys clanging softly through the night...but the commute everywhere...I mean even to get a quart of milk...I digress...)

Park Slope is my favorite for a number of reasons. It is aesthetically beautiful. The park is two minutes away. The schools are amazing. The restaurants are excellent. The boutiques are stylish. Shopping for food is an actual pastime for my husband and me. The supermarkets outside of Seagate, and in Williamsburg were gross.

I think the reason Park Slope is "hated" on by so many people is just the old fashioned concept of hating what you can't have or be a part of. As a native Brooklynite, i am very harsh on the "outsiders," those people who come from far away lands (clarification: any place EXCEPT for the 5 boroughs,)and while I find the various twangs a bit annoying sometimes, and roll my eyes Brooklyn style, I must concede that everyone with whom I have had encounters in Park Slope have been nice. Well mannered. Interesting. I am proud to be neighbors with each and every one of them.

A lot of the hate for Park Slope comes from the natives, the insiders who cringe at the thought of this irrational market where if you refuse to pay 2K for a one bedroom, someone else is in line right behind you saying "I'll pay 2,500!" I mean it's not the "city" after all. Moreover, Park Slope used to be a fairly tough neighborhood, with roughies hanging out here and there willing and able to protect their territory. That's gone now too. You can still find that in areas such as Marine Park, Mill Basin etc.

So now that I have gone completely off topic, I will end my ramblings. I love Park Slope. I just hope I can afford to stay here once my husband and I have kids...now isn't that ironic? Maybe that's part of the hate?

armchair_warrior

from all the blogs i read and post on, people seem to hate ps due to not being able to afford the area and jealous. plus its a easy to get on bandwagon.

bklyngrlie

I think the reason Park Slope is "hated" on by so many people is just the old fashioned concept of hating what you can't have or be a part of.

Once again, I want to reiterate, I have ZERO desire to live in Park Slope. The notion that people only dislike the neighborhood because they want to live there and can't is FALSE. Continuing to put forth that notion seems very unenlightened and elitist to me. Is it supposed to be a schoolyard version of "nyah, nyah, you want what I have"? I make what I consider a decent living. If I was dying to live in PS, I could rent there. I lived in Chelsea for a few years and that's not a cheap neighborhood either. But currently, I'm in the market as a buyer, not a renter and I have no qualms about saying that I could not afford to buy in PS, but I'm hardly unique in that regard. I'm sure most the residents defending the neighborhood so vigorously can't afford to buy there either. Get used to it.....not everyone is dying to live in your neighborhood!

So why don't I want to live in Park Slope? Here's my take on the vaunted "upsides" of the neighborhood:

The Park: When I was a kid, you didn't dare step foot in Prospect Park. It was a dangerous place to be, especially after dark but even during the day. I've personally never been inside the place. Not because I think it's still overwhelmingly dangerous, it's probably on par with many city parks in terms of safety. I just have no desire to visit. I have pretty bad allergies and being in parks tends to make me feel worse, not better. So even if I lived across the street from the place I wouldn't go there.

Schools: Don't have kids, don't care

Restaurants: Prefer to prepare/cook my own meals and eat at home most nights. Too much restaurant eating is ultimately unhealthy for you, not to mention expensive.

Shops: Most are full of bric-a-brac I don't buy and have no interest in.

The proximity to the main library, the museum and the botanical gardens is nice and the area can be considered aesthetically pleasing. But those aren't really tops on my desirability list for a neighborhood to live in. I can take the bus or subway to the museum or library anytime I want just like I did when I was a kid. There are other aesthetically pleasing neighborhoods in Brooklyn that aren't clouded with bars, restaurants and shops on every corner. They are made even more so by the diversity of people you see in the area. Beauty is the eye of the beholder anyway, and what I consider beautiful probably doesn't jive with the average Park Slope resident.

Notice....I don't need to put down residents or others who enjoy the neighborhood to express my feelings about it. Why don't the "defenders" take a clue?

belzjm

"Continuing to put forth that notion seems very unenlightened and elitist to me"


you didn't make any personal attacks to make your point??

actually you just did, bkgrlie.

you are so old-fashioned, i laughed when i read your post. it's cute.

don't really like parks, consider all the shops in park slope bric a brac, think eating out MUST be worse for you than cooking in, don't have kids, so don't care...wow is all I have to say. wow.

wtgirl

"belzjm" wrote:

you are so old-fashioned, i laughed when i read your post. it's cute.

don't really like parks, consider all the shops in park slope bric a brac, think eating out MUST be worse for you than cooking in, don't have kids, so don't care...wow is all I have to say. wow.

If you are so content with Park Slope Belzjm, why do you jump on those with differing opinions with different lifestyles? Bklygirl doesn't like the slope and is answering the question--which was the point of the original poster. You don't agree and then write a condescending post and state that you "laughed at her post". That it was "cute." That kind of post just shuts down any discussion and is rude.

I did not think she made a personal attack against any poster--at least that is how I read it. I interpreted her post differently. She felt that it is an elitest ATTITUDE (not that YOU Belzjm are elitest or bitter or ________) but that it is an elitest attitude to ASSUME that anyone not wanting to live in the slope is jealous.

You should be thankful not everyone wants to live in the slope. 7th avenue is crowded enough already.

belzjm

after engaging in this discussion on this thread, you better believe i'm glad a lot of people don't enjoy living in the slope.

as for your other argument, i don't like hypocrisy.

bkgrlie states she doesn't make personal attacks and then suggests others (not necessarily me) are unenlightened and elitist.

you can dislike park slope all you want. no skin off my back. but i'm allowed to state my opinions also.

this has gotten to the point where it's almost crossing the line for me as to what is and is not opinion. "hating" an entire neighborhood isn't really an opinion in my mind. it's similar to racism...it just isn't right. period.

take issue from now on with SPECIFIC people.

not an entire neighborhood.

or continue having your "fun." i'm done arguing with people who have such narrow minds and hateful personas.

garfunky

bklyngrl made her point well.
she simply doesnt see an upside to the area, for HER.

despite using the phrase "why i hate park slope"
note shes not actively "hating" imo.
shes not bashing all who live here nor those who wish to.
its just not for her.
this makes perfect sense to me.

this not the same as those who "hate".
It stands to reason that if someone is obsessed with bashing a hood
the people who live there, and everything about it ,
while they claim they dont want to live there,
that theres the possibility it comes from envy.
a familiar theme, yes ?

otherwise, why bother focusing on something that doesnt affect their daily life ?

charlesbklyn

Subject: So true ...

Moreover, Park Slope used to be a fairly tough neighborhood, with roughies hanging out here and there willing and able to protect their territory. That's gone now too. You can still find that in areas such as Marine Park, Mill Basin etc.

that is so true ...

As a person born and raised in the PS section of Brooklyn, I think to answer the question "Why do they hate Park Slope," you first need to differentiate between the traditional feelings concerning Park Slope from other people in other sections of Brooklyn, and the new dislike focused on the gentrification. It does not need to be said that Park Slope is an ideal and unique section of Brooklyn.

In the old days, such as the 1980's, there was more of a fascination with the neighborhood by other sections of Brooklyn as opposed to hate. Specifically, Park Slope kids, called "Slopeys," being a progressive group (multicultural, non-racist), were considered an odd group. I know from experience that kids from other Brooklyn neighborhoods were fascinated with the idea boys and girls could hang out as friends, instead of the traditional separate groupings of boys a girls. Park Slope, at least in the 1970's, was very much like a sesame street scene. At least that is how it felt back then ...




It also should be noted that when a fellow Brooklyn person refers to Park Slope as "not the real Brooklyn," it is usually because they come from a non-progressive Brooklyn neighborhood. Park Slope has been unique in the borough since probably the late 1960's, and the multicultural aspect created a lot of cultural confusion. I am not putting down other neighborhoods, as I have known many great people from every section. But people who state PS "is not the real Brooklyn" are just plain wrong, and stupid to boot.

After the gentrification and the population explosion of the late 1990's and beyond, I suppose, came the hate and disdain for the "new" Park Slope. As a successful neighborhood, it has bore the brunt of new people with new, non-NYC ideas and style. Beyond its traditional roots, it has become a symbol of the new NYC, exclusive for rich and well off. Although this stamp is not entirely accurate, it affords people unable to fully realize their NYC dreams to dump upon Park Slope. Wouldn't anyone be jealous of the best neighborhood the city has to offer? Of course.

This also doesn't mean some of the criticism is not well founded. People who forget where they are, or want to change NYC from a city to a suburban nightmare from which they came, deserve condemnation.
They are messing up a good thing.

Charlesbkyn
P.S. Thks sweet tea

booklaw

Charlesbklyn:

This also doesn't mean some of the criticism is not well founded. People who forget where they are, or want to change NYC from a city to a suburban nightmare from which they came, deserve commendation.
They are messing up a good thing.

booklaw:

So it was nice to be able to kick back on weekends in a low-stress, relaxed neighborhood that resembled Manhattan not at all. That is now more difficult than it used to be.

So we see that even among those of us who live in and love Park Slope, there can be great variations in what we value about living here.

Isn't it logical to expect that among those who do not, and in many cases can not, live here, there would be a variety of reasons to devalue the experience of living here?

Why do some of us get so defensive at the notion that the entire world doesn't share our values? Who the hell cares if others take potshots at our neighborhood?

Better it should remain our little secret (at least until we choose to move away and sell our homes... then it would be nice if the neighborhood were in high demand).

pitu

I wouldn't equate "suburban nightmare" with "a low-stress, relaxed neighborhood that resembled Manhattan not at all", booklaw, so now I'm confused about what you're saying. I think of Brooklyn as a different animal altogether.
To state the obvious, there's a huge difference between what someone is looking for in Westchester/LI/NJ and what they're looking for here.
A life you can walk around, instead of drive, for one.
And the diversity, of course.

charlesbklyn, loved your post

booklaw

I also liked charlesbrooklyn's post, a lot.

I thought that charlesbrooklyn was referring to my previously-stated preference for "a low-stress, relaxed neighborhood that resembled Manhattan not at all" when he spoke of "a suburban nightmare from which they came". If so, I have no problem whatsoever with that.

I've written a few posts now about how much more funky and laid-back the Slope used to be than it is now, and how I preferred it back in the day. I'm not looking for the burbs... I could have done that a long time ago. I wanted the economic, racial and cultural diversity that we have here, and that is typically lacking in the burbs.

Unfortunately (at least for me), the Slope is becoming less diverse than it used to be, at least economically and probably (I have no proof) economically and racially. That doesn't make it terrible... it's still better than any other NYC neighborhood I can think of.

But I think it is equally silly to hate the "haters" as it is to hate the Slope, or any other neighborhood.

People are entitled to talk and walk with their feet. If they don't like it here, they needn't live here. If they choose to live elsewhere, that leaves the Slope a little bit roomier than it would otherwise have been. Right now, I think that's a good thing.

pitu

gotcha. I didn't read that in his post tho.
I liked your earlier long post too, btw - got the discussion headed back to thoughtful

I keep wondering what brings self-proclaimed PS haters who are happy elsewhere to this PS board...
:twisted:

I myself moved here for the diversity, and the safety the *Sesame Street* offered to the queer of all colors . . . and proximity to good trains, a great park, and the Coop.
Not smug, just happy. I wish some of my friends could move here now.

sweet tea

Subject: Re: So true ...

charlesbklyn wrote:

This also doesn't mean some of the criticism is not well founded. People who forget where they are, or want to change NYC from a city to a suburban nightmare from which they came, deserve commendation.
They are messing up a good thing.

Charlesbkyn

point of order: you mean condemnation, right? (not trying to be a jerk, just want to be clear.)

filmlover44

Subject: Re: So true ...

charlesbklyn wrote:
This also doesn't mean some of the criticism is not well founded. People who forget where they are, or want to change NYC from a city to a suburban nightmare from which they came, deserve commendation.
They are messing up a good thing.

Charlesbkyn

Nice post. Like I said not as well and in fewer words - Park Slope has always been different.

Take my word for it. I've lived in lots of places including (and unfortunately) the suburbs. The only place that is remotely similar to Park Slope is the London Borough of Islington. I lived on the outside borders of that place too. Just as now, I could not afford to live closer to the park.

wtgirl

My cousin just sold her place and moved to Ditmas. I am trying to understand her "hate" and she does "hate" the slope--she is one of those visceral hate the slopes type (in fact, I change the subject). She lived there for years and wasn't priced out. She chose to leave because she says it has reached "a tipping point." She wasn't one of the original "homesteaders" but she lived there 20 years. She really is a bohemian and she feels the neighborhood is "suburban." That view seems extreme to me but this is someone who left by choice not by price. By way of background: she is a successful actress, she loves the coop (although does not like some of the new members), was a Kucinich supporter, someone who does A LOT of volunteer work for the homeless, has an ethical credit card and ethical bank with just one branch in the city, reads the Nation religiously.

So maybe she is old Park Slope whose neighborhood was taken over?

booklaw

Not oldest Slope... those were the ethnic Irish and Italians who got displaced by the social workers, teachers and other liberal-leaning "pioneers" who moved to the Slope in the 60's and 70's.

From your description, I'd say she may have been attracted to the Slope as it was remade by those "pioneers", and turned off when they in turn were replaced by the less liberal bankers, lawyers, etc.

snickers76

Sorry, but I just don't see park Slope as being suburban. That is so silly to me. You don't have to drive around for 45 minutes to find a parking spot in the suburbs.

The poster (can't remember her name) that finds no redeeming qualities about Park Slope seems really passionate about her disdain for the neighborhood. That's ok. Personally, I try to see the best in everything, even Williamsburg, which pained me to live there.

I'd be curious to know in which Brooklyn neighborhood she chooses to reside as well as why she lurks on the Park Slope forum if she has such bitterness towards the neighborhood it serves.

oshtisch

Subject: hating on the slope is fun!

I just read through all these replies and I'm surprised that no one has mentioned one big reason people love to hate on the Slope: because it's FUN!

It's like making fun of Jersey, Queens or SI. Or like making fun of Canada, which is a popular pasttime where I'm from in upstate NY.

I'm a sloper myself and I can tell you why people make fun of us...We're easy targets. We're nerdy do-gooders. We have a food coop and Secret Science Night and Brooklyn Super Hero Supply. We have t-shirts with strollers on them that say, "That's how we roll." We knit and we sell things on Etsy. I'm also fairly certain we are home to the most Crocs in the city.

How could you in good conscience NOT make fun of us??

That said, I've lived in Park Slope for about 10 years. I love it here. I've moved 4 times and never once considered a different neighborhood.

Everyone needs to lighten up a bit! Sheesh.

hamilton

Hey, live and let laugh.

bklyngrlie

I'd be curious to know in which Brooklyn neighborhood she chooses to reside as well as why she lurks on the Park Slope forum if she has such bitterness towards the neighborhood it serves.

Well, I have no interest in posting which neighborhood I live in because then this thread will turn into "my neighborhood is better than your neighborhood" and that's not what the premise of the thread is. It's not about where I live, it's about why people hate Park Slope.

And I don't usually lurk on this thread, in fact, before Friday, I didn't know it existed. I read about a post on Curbed and thought....hey, I can tell them why I hate Park Slope...so I got an account. I've continued to lurk to make sure that any misconceptions about what I posted get corrected. I don't like what I say to be twisted to suit other people's purposes. It's nice to see that there are some levelheaded posters mixed in with the rest.

Hate is a strong word, it's more like an "ugh" feeling when I think about it or have to go there. But I'm also fine with using the word hate, I think that people should have the common sense to make the distinction between "hate" for a neighborhood and say...hate for something like racism. One of the posters upthread got it right....it's simply not a neighborhood for me and I don't like what it represents for my borough. Yet, as I mentioned, I have had a few friends live in the area(some still do) and I like them fine and I don't hold their neighborhood against them.

As for ostisch's post....huh? I've never even heard of any of that stuff and I'm certainly not hating on PS for any of it.

snickers76

I think a lot of the posts use the word "hate" because it is in the OP headline. I used the word "hate" in a vernacular sense ("haters", "stop hating" etc.) I too, consider Brooklyn "my borough" as I was born, raised and resided in various neighborhoods in Brooklyn for my entire life. I have no interest in making this a "my neighborhood is better than your neighborhood" Being that I know Brooklyn very well, I was just curious as to what you consider a neighborhood that is worthy of residing in.

the chipster

"I'm a sloper myself and I can tell you why people make fun of us...We're easy targets. We're nerdy do-gooders. We have a food coop and Secret Science Night and Brooklyn Super Hero Supply. We have t-shirts with strollers on them that say, "That's how we roll." We knit and we sell things on Etsy. I'm also fairly certain we are home to the most Crocs in the city. "

I love your positive spin! I wish those of us with a love/hate attitude about PS were more appreciative of our foibles. But I was really shocked when a video clip was shown on this board making fun of Slopeys, and nobody "got it." It was hilarious, and it showed how the earnest greenest people can make fun of themselves too. (Except those more-earnest-than-thou who "hated" it.)
I'd rather laugh than grumble..but living in a place that has changed so much makes one feel betrayed--but by whom I am not sure.
Et moi oko?

evilbert

I've noticed some people spend a lot of energy hating a neighborhood they've no interest in living in! I'm sure there must be a more positive use for that energy, but I guess you'll have to find that yourself.

As an outsider coming into NY 9 years ago, I find it hard to understand why some people single out PS residents for their hatred. The disliked residents seem to be the generic yuppie liberals found throughout NYC - I really don't see the difference between a PS yuppie, an Upper East Side yuppie and a Williamsburg yuppie! Some are cool people, so are arseholes. Don't generalize so much, people!

And for anyone who painting with a big, wide brush - there are some Slopies who don't fit the stereotype. I'm a gun owner, I've got no interest in "green" issues, I can't stand the food co-op, I wouldn't be caught dead voting for a democrat and while wifey and I don't yet have kids, when we do, we'd leaver her at home when we go to the pub!

It's not a bad hood. If you don't like it, don't live here.

booklaw

A Republican gun owner in Park Slope? Gasp! What's the neighborhood coming to??

Next thing you know the NRA will be holding demonstrations in Grand Army Plaza...

wtgirl

Subject: Re: hating on the slope is fun!

oshtisch wrote:
I'm a sloper myself and I can tell you why people make fun of us...We're easy targets. We're nerdy do-gooders. We have a food coop and Secret Science Night and Brooklyn Super Hero Supply. We have t-shirts with strollers on them that say, "That's how we roll." We knit and we sell things on Etsy. I'm also fairly certain we are home to the most Crocs in the city.

How could you in good conscience NOT make fun of us??

I think that is why people make fun of slopers but I honestly don't believe that "nerdy do-gooders" are what is evoking evisceral hatred in some people. You don't "hate" what you feel superior to. I think anyone making fun of someone who belongs to the food coop, secretly thinks they are "smarter" then they are or something. Knitting doesn't evoke rage.

I don't think there is anger towards those people. I think the anger is directed towards what is perceived as "new" and the"sense of entitlement" crowd. And I want to be clear, that the people I know are not feeling jealous....but I don't really understand it myself.