Pavilion Rant

wtgirl

Last night I went to a movie which was rated PG but as a mother of a four year old, was NOT appropriate for a four year old. The theater was FILLED with kids (Iron Man). Now there is a lot of explosions and shooting which is not something I want my kid to see yet but that is not my post. Kids TALK (which is what kids do and why they should go to matinees). The little boy behind us was asking a MILLION questions as he was clearly frightened and trying to understand and reduce his anxiety. Finally a guy asked the mother if he could please have her child be quiet. WHOA....it just immediately turned into a race thing. It ended with the mother saying, "baby, you go ahead and ask me AS MANY questions as you want. Go right ahead" and of course he did and he was louder then ever. How sad. This kid was just taught to be rude to another adult.

I know we like to think Park Slope is the land of the rainbow, but obviously things are not idyllic in this segregated fairy tale.

idlewild

I can see why any kid or adult for that mattter would be scared of Robert Downey's acting skills but where does the racism come in? You say it turned into a race thing but end it by saying the kid was taught to be disrespectful to adults. Not that I see Park Slope or any place in the world as Harmony Lane.

wtgirl

Idlewild wrote: I can see why any kid or adult for that mattter would be scared of Robert Downey's acting skills but where does the racism come in? You say it turned into a race thing but end it by saying the kid was taught to be disrespectful to adults. Not that I see Park Slope or any place in the world as Harmony Lane.

O.K. to spell it out....the mother was african american. The guy who piped up was a white Park Slope father (he said he was a father). The mother was OUTRAGED that a white man asked HER son to be quiet and said so. I don't want to quote the extended tirade that went on (on both sides) but it made me sad for the kid and sad that we still live in a world where race most obviously DOES matter despite the platitudes and worried Obama is not electable.

idlewild

Welcome to the human condition.

armchair_warrior

one reason i don't goto movies any more. unless its in a very nice place. most places in nyc sucks for movies.

belzjm

isn't the pavilion like 10 steps to windsor terrace...?

just sayin...

can't believe you'd turn it not only into a race thing, but then a neighborhood thing also??

hope YOUR 4 year old doesn't pick up from her mommy how she does the same thing you just accused that white dude of doing....just with people who live in a certain neighborhood instead of with race...

booklaw

WTGirl didn't accuse the white father of anything improper... just of asking the mother of the child to keep him quiet.

If anything, she suggested that the child's mother turned it into a race thing... and that words were exchanged between them which made it clear that the mother reacted on that level.

wtgirl

belzjm wrote: isn't the pavilion like 10 steps to windsor terrace...?

just sayin...

Just sayin....it is in Park Slope.

Are you worried I am attacking the cultural hegemony? I think upper middle class white guys can handle themselves in America and don't need to be a protected class. But that wasn't my point....It was a conflict between class and race and it was depressing how fast those things come to the surface.

daver

WTGirl wrote: O.K. to spell it out....the mother was african american. The guy who piped up was a white Park Slope father (he said he was a father). The mother was OUTRAGED that a white man asked HER son to be quiet and said so. I don't want to quote the extended tirade that went on (on both sides) but it made me sad for the kid and sad that we still live in a world where race most obviously DOES matter despite the platitudes and worried Obama is not electable.

*snarfle*

So, um, Obama is not electable because some white guy got into with a black lady because her kid was talking in a movie? Lol. And I assume it is your position that the black lady in question would have told her kid to STFU if it had been a black man telling her to keep her kid quiet? Yeah, right!

I don't doubt that race was brought up if you say it was, but in something like this I just view it as collateral damage. The conflict would have been on regardless.

As far as parents teaching their kids to be disrespectful buttheads and the dangers of doing so, I am in 100% agreement with you.

WTGirl wrote: Last night I went to a movie which was rated PG but as a mother of a four year old, was NOT appropriate for a four year old. The theater was FILLED with kids (Iron Man). Now there is a lot of explosions and shooting which is not something I want my kid to see yet but that is not my post.

I know this wasn't the point of your point, but I wanted to say that as a parent to a parent that tries to monitor this sort of thing, there are some great websites out there that can clue you into this kind of thing _before_ you get to the theater. You can do a search, but IMDB is often a good place to start for popular films. Check out the entry for Iron Man:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371746/parentalguide
It covers everything pretty good. I often use some the hardcore Christian reviews too. While I don't necessarily agree with them, they usually do a thorough and accurate accounting of everything that may be a problem. And sometimes the things they take offense to are funny!

kosherdave

In the past, I've asked people to quite down at movie theatres too. People of any color/group/etc/etc/etc and I have noticed that, given the right combination, it easily turns into a race thing when all I wanted was it to turn into a "quite up, we're in a theatre" thing. In fact, I once asked a woman, very politely, if she'd mind not talking on her cell phone during the movie, which she had been doing for 10 minutes or so. Her boyfriend called me a racist cracker then said he was shoot me. That was weird. I did not care where she was from, just wanted her to stop the cell phone talk.
And I agree it is sad the kid was taught to disrespect adults.

wtgirl

daver wrote:
So, um, Obama is not electable because some white guy got into with a black lady because her kid was talking in a movie? Lol.

If race comes up THAT fast (on both sides) in "enlightened" Park Slope...yes it does worry me that our country is too racist to elect Obama. I hope I am wrong obviously.


Thanks for the website tip. I wish more parents would check them!

bergenites

Race comes up that fast everywhere in our society, unfortunately.

I recently had an experience where I - a young, white woman - was on a very crowded subway car during rush hour and I politely asked a black woman standing in the middle of the car with an empty stroller if she could please close her stroller so others could get on the train.

She started yelling at me about how I thought I was too good to be on the train with her, and then her daughter (I assume) carrying a young child (again, I assume the one who normally would sit in the stroller), came over and started accusing me of being racist and calling me all sorts of offensive and crass language, all in front of her child (who was old enough to talk and parrot what others said).

I did not respond and got off the train at the next stop, but honestly, why the need to turn it into a race war?

This occurred on the #6 train on the Upper East Side.

belzjm

i still don't see how this is a neighborhood issue.

if you want to infer that it was racist, or if it WAS racist, that's one thing.

bad news all the way around.

but isn't adding in the whole...everyone who lives in park slope things they are enlightened (which is a load of crap) going in the same direction of bigotry?

your point would have been just as well expressed (if not moreso) had you left out your alluding to the fact that it's so much more ironic that this seems to have happened in our perfect little park slope (obvious sarcasm, i hope)

wtgirl

belzjm wrote: i still don't see how this is a neighborhood issue.

This took place in Park Slope. Park Slope prides itself on calling itself a neighborhood that is inclusive. If things get so ugly so fast here, where people pride themselves on "diversity" (and this time I do mean it ironically because I don't think PS is diverse), then I think we have to face racism head on.

belzjm

park slope is a neighborhood.

it does not have a voice.

the 65,000 people who inhabit it, each have their own.

i'm not sure where you got the notion that park slope prides itself on being any more or less anything.

unless you read a lot of gawker.com and the daily news.

you need to stop feeding into such stereotypes and realize that you have a grudge towards a neighborhood, which is quite similar to feeding a stereotype of a race, although on a much smaller scale.

i was at the pavilion yesterday, in fact and noticed what a diverse crowd there was. and as you said...it's in park slope.

wtgirl

belzjm wrote:
you need to stop feeding into such stereotypes and realize that you have a grudge towards a neighborhood, which is quite similar to feeding a stereotype of a race, although on a much smaller scale.

Please. Here you go again trying to provoke an argument. You are free to believe and see what you want. Neighborhoods have identities. I am not going to go down this road with you YET again. It is really extremely tedious and I am sorry you always change the topic of discussion to something boring.

belzjm

you have issues lady.

belzjm

and this will be my last posting on this thread, but just so you are aware of facts, i found some info for you because i'm rather sick of your inaccuracies.

this is the lastest demographic data for 11218 (windor terrace) and 11217 (my zip code of park slope)

11218
White 55.40%
Black 13.10%
Hispanic 19.60%
Asian 9.90%
Other .60%

11217
White 47.90%
Black 31.60%
Hispanic 24.70%
Asian 11.10%
Other .70%

(% may add up to over 100 if people select more than one category)

Looks like both neighborhoods are pretty diverse to me. And in the grand scheme of the U.S. WILDY diverse, in fact. but you don't care about little things called facts, i'm sure.

hamilton

11215 is also in Windsor Terrace, do you have a break down this for area.

belzjm

11215
White 68%
Black 8%
Hispanic 26.60%
Asian 12.60%
Other .60%

And the U.S.
White 73.9%
Black 12.2%
Hispanic 14.8%
Asian 4.4%
Other 9.20%

Looks like all these areas in Brooklyn are quite a bit more "diverse" than the U.S. as a whole even though we sometimes may forget that fact.

wtgirl

belzjm wrote: 11215
White 68%
Black 8%
Hispanic 26.60%
Asian 12.60%
Other .60%

And the U.S.
White 73.9%
Black 12.2%
Hispanic 14.8%
Asian 4.4%
Other 9.20%

.

11215--Zip Code for Most of Park Slope. The national average for african americans is 12.2% yet Park Slope has just 8% in an urban area? PS has 2% FEWER Hispanics then the national average? Again in an urban area? Vast areas of the US are lilly white suburbs. I think your statistics tell the story.

11217--is partially Park Slope. But I suspect many of the black and hispanic population reside across Flatbush, along Wyckoff and across Atlantic Avenue not on Lincoln and Berkley.

belzjm

The U.S. has 14.8% hispanics.

11215 (or as you say most of park slope) has 26.60%

how is that 2% less?

why didn't you comment on the fact that 11218 (totally windsor terrace) has the LEAST amount of hispanic of all 3 zip codes i gave you...you know...the largest minority in the country??

you like to twist things to fit your incredibly closed-minded brain, don't you.

and i like the part where you have essentially said that because it doesn't suit your stance that from flatbush to union street is no longer park slope.

i don't like having conversations with people who are so irrational.

jeffrey

Before people go off on the numbers here...

11215 also covers about half of Windsor Terrace(all the way over to 11th Avenue, down to the Prospect Expressway, roughly).

11218 also covers much more of Kensington than Windsor Terrace (at least twice as much Kensington than WT, on the map).

Not meaning to split hairs here, just to introduce the point that Windsor Terrace is split between two different statistical areas, so people should resist the temptation to go down into the weeds on inconclusive (split and heavily diluted) zone data for WT.

Okay, carry on...

wtgirl

jeffrey wrote: Before people go off on the numbers here...

11215 also covers about half of Windsor Terrace(all the way over to 11th Avenue, down to the Prospect Expressway, roughly).

11218 also covers much more of Kensington than Windsor Terrace (at least twice as much Kensington than WT, on the map).

Not meaning to split hairs here, just to introduce the point that Windsor Terrace is split between two different statistical areas, so people should resist the temptation to go down into the weeds on inconclusive (split) zone data for WT.
.

Totally agree. WT--11215 is extremely white and Kensington 11218--is extremely diverse both racially and economically.

But are we in a contest of whose neighborhood is more rainbow? I think the recent report that NY is the least integrated major city in America is right on.

sweet tea

no way is NY more segregated than chicago (where i lived for 5 years, lest anyone think i'm just throwing blame around without basis). how did the report come to that conclusion?

belzjm

this wasn't meant to turn into a park slope vs windsor terrace fight. i happen to love windsor terrace.

i just thought posting the data actually showed how SIMILAR the neighborhoods were in their diversity.

it's nice to see the numbers anyhow. i find them interesting for pure curiosity sake.

sandcastler

Census tracts are much more precise than Zip codes. To see census tract data mapped in a clear way, check out this marvelous interactive website:

http://www.socialexplorer.com/pub/maps/map3.aspx?g=0,20

(Zoom in and change the data display parameters.)

eggcream

The incident should have been reported to the manager. There's no dealing with ignorance. Haven't been to the movies in years and haven't regretted it one minute.

eggcream

jeffrey wrote:



But are we in a contest of whose neighborhood is more rainbow? I think the recent report that NY is the least integrated major city in America is right on.

Link to that report?

vidro3

Sweet Jeebus.
One person was being rude and disrespectful, (the mother, I'm not about to blame the kid.) Another person asked the mother to instruct her child to behave. The mother went off the deep end.

jeffrey

eggcream wrote: [quote=WTGirl][quote=jeffrey]



But are we in a contest of whose neighborhood is more rainbow? I think the recent report that NY is the least integrated major city in America is right on.

Link to that report?

Eggcream, just a minor housekeeping thing, ya might want to delete reference to me from the above and fix the broken WTGirl quote brackets in your post as the above quote did not come from me (despite current misquoted appearances).

Thanks, j

***edited to add: nothing at all against any persons or viewpoints expressed here, just making sure the right folks are cited/quoted, that's all.