i saw a weird/creepy thing on the F last night--did you?

wtgirl

daver wrote: [ Freedom includes the _freedom_ to wear burkas. I understand your point, mind you, but the flip side is that you can't walk in and so, "You shall wear a burka no more! You are free!" Many _want_ to wear the burka, and believe in it (and more.) I understand the viewpoint that _that_ is part of the problem, but I must give them their right to believe, worship, and dress how they choose. Which doesn't extend to marrying twelve year olds.

Never said fundamentalists don't have the right to practice (of course they do--but would they give us the same courtesy if some of these groups were the dominant power I wonder? Would they be so tolerant of gays or people leading lifestyles not approved by their religious books?). All I am saying is I have the right to be critical of an institution that oppresses a population without being given a negative label and silenced. I think these institutions need some criticism frankly. (And it appears the high court doesn't agree that mormon sect kids were in any danger actually and are being returned to their families.)

carmen

^The seizure of those children was illegal...and precedent has shown that you cant just take kids away from their parents (this happened with a mormon sect in the 50s in arizona, if memory serves, and they ended up giving the kids back then as well.)

kosherdave

I thought the OP sounded a wee bit on the anti-semetic side when I first read it (a week or so ago?). FWIW
Mostly, I just thought it was really moronic (not saying the OP-er was a moron, just that the post was).

garfunky

raw wrote:
It's also disturbing how it's socially acceptable to attack male orthodox Jews. Since we have no facts and only someone's perception of what she assumes is a religious orthodox Jew and how orthodox Jews should behave in public, the original post is blatant bigotry.

(emphasis mine)

we dont even know they were TOGETHER for more than the time she saw woman choose to sit next the man, to the time op exited subway. we do not know if they got on together,
nor do we know if they got off together...

about 10 -14 days ago a hasidic man was lamenting(soundbyte on news, I only saw the blurb) that anitsemitism against hasids is on the rise and, in his opinion, goes largely unnoticed by both the police and the public.
This thread showed up about a day or so later.

So apparently ive forgotten to include the possibility
that thread is specifically intended as fodder for the press.

its a witch hunt, regardless of the reason or intent.

drunken revival

I don't claim to have read each and every post as you people (yes, I said you people) tend to get off topic.

If we take the facts as facts (which is the only thing relevant here) then the only conclusion is that the situation was a bad one and likely to be trafficking.

I am defining likely here as more likely than some other old man/young woman clearly traveling together.

It was a bad situation... and there is nothing the OP could have done... If the girl had made it this far the game was over...

alafairnadia

Drunken Revival wrote: I don't claim to have read each and every post as you people (yes, I said you people) tend to get off topic.

If we take the facts as facts (which is the only thing relevant here) then the only conclusion is that the situation was a bad one and likely to be trafficking.

I am defining likely here as more likely than some other old man/young woman clearly traveling together.

It was a bad situation... and there is nothing the OP could have done... If the girl had made it this far the game was over...

shockingly, I'm in total agreement with BP's OP and DR. a stranger trifecta ... I've never encountered. let's get shots sometime soon in one of your slopalicious bars.

xo

ninemonthsout

I've been reading this thread and I'm a little confused so had to ask:

Why describe this as "weird/creepy" vs. "unusual" or "uncommon"?

I admittedly do not know enough about Judaism to understand the nuances that many of the posters seem to. I've actually been following this thread so that I might understand a little more since I'm pretty ignorant on many religious customs. I think the OP did a sufficient job of trying to explain why this coupling is not the norm, but why does out-of-the-norm automatically mean sex slave? Is sex trafficking that common within this religious sect? I'm not being funny or sarcastic, nor am I trying to bash OP, I just really am interested in why that was the immediate conclusion.

Um...I guess I can see an observer scratching their head a bit, but why the need for alarm (after the fact) when no one seemed to be in distress (especially in a public place)? I dunno- one sees so many "odd" things on the subway that none of them are really that remarkable.

A few times in the beginning of this thread, people tried to offer (what I deemed) plausible explanations for the pair, all of which the OP shot down saying " believe me, I've run through all the scenarios". I don't think this thread would still be going if the OP had been more willing to accept that there are other explanations for the two to be together.

redmenace

ninemonthsout wrote: I've been reading this thread and I'm a little confused so had to ask:

Why describe this as "weird/creepy" vs. "unusual" or "uncommon"?

I admittedly do not know enough about Judaism to understand the nuances that many of the posters seem to. I've actually been following this thread so that I might understand a little more since I'm pretty ignorant on many religious customs. I think the OP did a sufficient job of trying to explain why this coupling is not the norm

But the points that were "annoying" (for lack of a better word) was:

OP claimed she knew more than anyone else, but did not say why or how

OP claimed this was very alarming to her, but did not say why. "Being out of the norm" doesn't mean a crime was being committed, particularly one as awful as she was accusing

OP claimed she knew for a fact the police would do nothing, so she didn't report it. Instead, the information was posted on a bulletin board and turned into a guessing game, with OP determining which scenario was the correct one.

OP begins to get questioned on her motives, removes the post, and backs out of the discussion.

In searching back posts, OP has begin a few other threads that ended up lengthy and unpleasant.

Those who want to believe sex trafficking, go ahead. I prefer to protect my neighborhood. I like to think there is no room for accusatory drunken gossip.

Indeed, if OP can assume ther was sex trafficking, others here can assume she was tipsy on her way home from dinner that night.

daver

ninemonthsout wrote: I think the OP did a sufficient job of trying to explain why this coupling is not the norm, but why does out-of-the-norm automatically mean sex slave? Is sex trafficking that common within this religious sect? I'm not being funny or sarcastic, nor am I trying to bash OP, I just really am interested in why that was the immediate conclusion.

Um...I guess I can see an observer scratching their head a bit, but why the need for alarm (after the fact) when no one seemed to be in distress (especially in a public place)? I dunno- one sees so many "odd" things on the subway that none of them are really that remarkable.

This is exactly what I was thinking too. Is Nordic sex slave trafficking a Big Thing within the Hasidic community? Because I was like, unaware of that and stuff. I did a few searches, but all I seemed to come up with was some fringe stuff about Jewish sex slave trafficking of Eastern Europeans in Israels, and that info seemed sketchy at best. I have no doubt that if it exists, it is a small minority, but I don't even know if it is a known thing within the religion.

Catholics have their pediphiles... Mormons have many brides... Hasidics have Nordic sex slaves?

I'm dying to make a joke about converting here, but I'll restrain myself. Somehow.

alafairnadia

MOD NOTE: as far as I know, the OP has not deleted any posts nor have any been removed from this thread and isolated for further mod review. if you are a frequent board poster, you might be aware that we occasionally (as in once or twice a day) have board glitches that can defeat posting. sometimes shit happens. deal with it.

NON-MOD-NOTE: okay, continue arguing about why an old hassidic dude chilling with a lady he totally couldn't pull is somehow normal. kthxbai

daver

alafairnadia wrote: okay, continue arguing about why an old hassidic dude chilling with a lady he totally couldn't pull is somehow normal. kthxbai

You're only saying that because of the harem of Nordic sex slaves you keep in your basement.

I see through you.

And you should share.

drunken revival

"Catholics have their pediphiles... Mormons have many brides... Hasidics have Nordic sex slaves? "


Um... yeah.. pretty much. Again, my argument is that this is the most LIKELY interpretation of the facts.

Unlike so many on this board I have an open mind to differing opinions.

drunken revival

Oh... and my avatar is, in fact, a sex worker.. in case anyone was wondering.

ninemonthsout

I think we all agree this is unusual...not normal. But why, oh, why is sex trafficking the "most likely" explanation? If I saw an elderly man (regardless of religion) with a much younger woman, that wouldn't be the first thing to pop into my head.

Dead horse is beaten, but I'm sincerely curious as to why this is such an obvious conclusion for some of you...guess I'm not so sex-slave-saavy.

alafairnadia

ninemonthsout wrote: I think we all agree this is unusual...not normal. But why, oh, why is sex trafficking the "most likely" explanation? If I saw an elderly man (regardless of religion) with a much younger woman, that wouldn't be the first thing to pop into my head.

Dead horse is beaten, but I'm sincerely curious as to why this is such an obvious conclusion for some of you...guess I'm not so sex-slave-saavy.

while I did not witness this, I would guess that the assumption of blech could be made the same way I figured out which women in the bellagio baccarat bar were hookers and which were just slutty chicks. and, given clothing and hair info, could figure out if they were expensive or cheap hookers. the expensive ones, fwiw, are really difficult to spot. cheap - they're wearing a fuckin' sign.

daver

alafairnadia wrote: while I did not witness this, I would guess that the assumption of blech could be made the same way I figured out which women in the bellagio baccarat bar were hookers and which were just slutty chicks. and, given clothing and hair info, could figure out if they were expensive or cheap hookers. the expensive ones, fwiw, are really difficult to spot. cheap - they're wearing a fuckin' sign.

I seriously need to go to Vegas with you.

I am SO fucking oblivious.

alafairnadia

daver wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]while I did not witness this, I would guess that the assumption of blech could be made the same way I figured out which women in the bellagio baccarat bar were hookers and which were just slutty chicks. and, given clothing and hair info, could figure out if they were expensive or cheap hookers. the expensive ones, fwiw, are really difficult to spot. cheap - they're wearing a fuckin' sign.

I seriously need to go to Vegas with you.

I am SO fucking oblivious.

anytime, doll. just bear in mind: I don't help pay for hookers. I have no interest. all $$ goes to poker, food & booze. oh. and that hotel thingy.

raw

redmenace wrote: [quote=ninemonthsout]I've been reading this thread and I'm a little confused so had to ask:

Why describe this as "weird/creepy" vs. "unusual" or "uncommon"?

I admittedly do not know enough about Judaism to understand the nuances that many of the posters seem to. I've actually been following this thread so that I might understand a little more since I'm pretty ignorant on many religious customs. I think the OP did a sufficient job of trying to explain why this coupling is not the norm

But the points that were "annoying" (for lack of a better word) was:

OP claimed she knew more than anyone else, but did not say why or how

OP claimed this was very alarming to her, but did not say why. "Being out of the norm" doesn't mean a crime was being committed, particularly one as awful as she was accusing

OP claimed she knew for a fact the police would do nothing, so she didn't report it. Instead, the information was posted on a bulletin board and turned into a guessing game, with OP determining which scenario was the correct one.

OP begins to get questioned on her motives, removes the post, and backs out of the discussion.

In searching back posts, OP has begin a few other threads that ended up lengthy and unpleasant.

Those who want to believe sex trafficking, go ahead. I prefer to protect my neighborhood. I like to think there is no room for accusatory drunken gossip.

Indeed, if OP can assume ther was sex trafficking, others here can assume she was tipsy on her way home from dinner that night.

Amen.

livetotravel

As a twice daily and many-times-a-weekend rider of the "F" train I can tell you that older men with younger women, especially and particularly Eastern European, is a norm not a rarity. Never saw a septuagenarian Hasid with a Nordic girl however. Just former Russian and Soviet bloc men with really young women. And we know that this city is full of young Eastern European women sold into sex slavery and also young Eastern European women who would do anything to get a green card.

redmenace

Livetotravel wrote: As a twice daily and many-times-a-weekend rider of the "F" train I can tell you that older men with younger women, especially and particularly Eastern European, is a norm not a rarity. Never saw a septuagenarian Hasid with a Nordic girl however. Just former Russian and Soviet bloc men with really young women. And we know that this city is full of young Eastern European women sold into sex slavery and also young Eastern European women who would do anything to get a green card.

and it's your business because........?