Bed-Stuy living

anonymous

Putnam-denizen wrote: While I would be loath to ever defend this country's math and science record, citing Haiti as an example of successful education is a bit much. Even if the statistic you cite is correct, what percentage of the school age population attends high school? And of that how many take the test?

WOW. <SMH> you have really just shown your true colors and vast ignorance with this post. Pathetic. No wonder...

daver

Anonymous wrote: [quote=Putnam-denizen]While I would be loath to ever defend this country's math and science record, citing Haiti as an example of successful education is a bit much. Even if the statistic you cite is correct, what percentage of the school age population attends high school? And of that how many take the test?

WOW. <SMH> you have really just shown your true colors and vast ignorance with this post. Pathetic. No wonder...
I'll freely admit ignorance as to education in Haiti. A quick web search indicates from a few sources that it is pretty bleak, although definitely making great strides forward in about the last fifteen years. Care to elaborate? I'm always happy to learn about something new.

putnam-denizen

Anonymous wrote: [quote=Putnam-denizen]While I would be loath to ever defend this country's math and science record, citing Haiti as an example of successful education is a bit much. Even if the statistic you cite is correct, what percentage of the school age population attends high school? And of that how many take the test?

WOW. <SMH> you have really just shown your true colors and vast ignorance with this post. Pathetic. No wonder...

I am sorry? Your response makes no sense. What is the answer to my question? Obviously if in the US 95% of teenagers are in school while in Haiti only 10% are, you can't really compare their test results as being representative of anything.

But why do I bother. My mother says "leave the trolls alone."

anonymous

Putnam-denizen wrote:
I am sorry? Your response makes no sense. What is the answer to my question? Obviously if in the US 95% of teenagers are in school while in Haiti only 10% are, you can't really compare their test results as being representative of anything.

But why do I bother. My mother says "leave the trolls alone."

Where in the hell do you get the idea that only 10% of Haitian kids are in school???!!! On top of that if you claim that 95% of US kids are than it is an even worse look for the US. Get your facts straight before you post.

putnam-denizen

Sigh. Do you even understand my question? You asserted something. I am asking you to back it up. I myself have no idea of what percentage of Haitian teenagers are in school. But if only the elite attend high school and take tests in Haiti ( a reasonable supposition, no?) then it is unfair to compare a supposed higher test result there (which I am not sure I believe - do you have a cite for that?) to a much broader group going to school and taking tests in this country.

anonymous

Putnam-denizen wrote: Sigh. Do you even understand my question? You asserted something. I am asking you to back it up. I myself have no idea of what percentage of Haitian teenagers are in school. But if only the elite attend high school and take tests in Haiti ( a reasonable supposition, no?) then it is unfair to compare a supposed higher test result there (which I am not sure I believe - do you have a cite for that?) to a much broader group going to school and taking tests in this country.

the bolded being the essence of both posts. again; get your facts straight before you post. the more you type, the more you show your vast ignorance.

putnam-denizen

I am sorry 20% of age appropriate teens attend secondary schools:

http://www.buildingwithbooks.org/intra/Intl_Programs/profile_Haiti.html

Although public education is free in Haiti, the cost is still quite high for Haitian families who must pay for uniforms, textbooks, supplies, and other inputs. Due to weak state provision of education services, private and parochial schools account for about 90% of primary schools, and only 65% of primary school-aged children are actually enrolled. At the secondary level, the figure drops to around 20%. Less than 35% of those who enter will complete primary school. Although Haitians place a high value on education, few can afford to send their children to secondary school. Today, primary school enrollment is also dropping due to economic factors. 60 percent of rural households suffer from chronic food insecurity, and food must come before education.
With an adult illiteracy rate of 52% (48% of males are illiterate and 52.2% of females are illiterate), education remains a key obstacle to economic and social advancement in Haiti.

Sources:

UNICEF. (2004) “At a Glance: Haiti.” Online.
http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/haiti.html. June 14, 2004.

putnam-denizen

I can't believe I just spent time debating whether or not education is better in Haiti or US.

anonymous

Putnam-denizen wrote: I can't believe I just spent time debating whether or not education is better in Haiti or US.

It's MUCH better in Haiti and the rest of the Caribbean so yes it was a waste of time and UNICEF is a biased source. Try again. MOST Haitian children attend school and excel far beyond US students. You fail once again.

daver

Feel free to share your information about the educational system in Haiti. The sources I found mostly echo the UNICEF info that was posted.

queencallipygos

Less than 15 percent of Haitian children ages 6 to 11 are enrolled in public school -- one of the lowest rates, if not the lowest rate in the world, according to the World Bank's Sam Carlson, who is working with the Haitian government and other international bodies to achieve the millennium education goal. Non-public institutions fill some of the gap, but still most Haitian children do not make it to sixth grade.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34657

Haiti's education sector suffers from weaknesses in virtually all aspects, including access, equity, quality and institutional capacity. Approximately 500,000 children aged 6-11 do not attend school of any kind, and only about half of all six year olds enroll in first grade.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/DHRV-72N3CC?OpenDocument

For years, Haitian schools have suffered from lack of resources and trained staff. Less than 70 percent of children attend primary school, and a fraction of those will go on to complete high school and college. One of the reasons is that the cost of schooling can be high for many families in Haiti, where public funding supports only about 10 percent of the nation's 15,000 primary schools.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-10/2007-10-05-voa54.cfm?CFID=4819205&CFTOKEN=26093022

(claps hands) Let's see what picture macro I get now! This is exciting!

anonymous

you keep believing what the media wants you to believe. that is why you are so ignorant and arrogant. good night.

anonymous

BTW I am NOT Haitian so your assault on Haiti is pure tragicomedy to the extent that I have shared the link all over and the whole world is shaking their heads and laughing at you same time. The US $ the most unwanted $ in the world right now. Chew on that and figure out how you will get your damn brie cheese when this continues for a while....

anonymous

queencallipygos wrote: Less than 15 percent of Haitian children ages 6 to 11 are enrolled in public school -- one of the lowest rates, if not the lowest rate in the world, according to the World Bank's Sam Carlson, who is working with the Haitian government and other international bodies to achieve the millennium education goal. Non-public institutions fill some of the gap, but still most Haitian children do not make it to sixth grade.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34657

Haiti's education sector suffers from weaknesses in virtually all aspects, including access, equity, quality and institutional capacity. Approximately 500,000 children aged 6-11 do not attend school of any kind, and only about half of all six year olds enroll in first grade.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/DHRV-72N3CC?OpenDocument

For years, Haitian schools have suffered from lack of resources and trained staff. Less than 70 percent of children attend primary school, and a fraction of those will go on to complete high school and college. One of the reasons is that the cost of schooling can be high for many families in Haiti, where public funding supports only about 10 percent of the nation's 15,000 primary schools.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-10/2007-10-05-voa54.cfm?CFID=4819205&CFTOKEN=26093022

(claps hands) Let's see what picture macro I get now! This is exciting!

BTW all these links give completely conflicting info. So which one the "reliable source" ?

queencallipygos

Aw, no macro? Poo, that's no fun.

putnam-denizen

Anonymous wrote: [quote=Putnam-denizen]I can't believe I just spent time debating whether or not education is better in Haiti or US.

It's MUCH better in Haiti and the rest of the Caribbean so yes it was a waste of time and UNICEF is a biased source. Try again. MOST Haitian children attend school and excel far beyond US students. You fail once again.



This is pointless. I hope you have had fun. We have responded to you assuming you are an adult with coherent thoughts. Since that has proven not to be the case, would you mind getting off this site? Many of us use it to share information, have reasonable debates, and work to making our communities a better place. At this point it is clear that you are a 14 year old from Akron.

anonymous

Those who know nothing about rastafari should NOT speak on it.

Raspect.......stay irie.

Bless up

queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Anonymous]I never said I was a rasta you reading comprehension challenged person.

So, you were just dropping the terms to be a poser?

I don't care what race you are I just don't like you. I only need to see how you behave on this forum and do not wish to see any more.

And yet you keep coming back. Fascinating.

Look bitch don't tell me how to speak. I can say irie and babylon all i want and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with selassie.

Okay, I'll admit I was incorrect about the details of Selassie's involvement with Rastafarianism. But irie and babylon do have something to do with Selassie -- because Rastafarians regard Selassie as the Messiah.

But that's okay -- a dilettante wouldn't know that.

daver

rasta wrote: Those who know nothing about rastafari should NOT speak on it.

Raspect.......stay irie.

Bless up

Open invitation for those who _do_ know something about rastafari and/or the Haitian education system to speak up. I'd love to learn something about either topic, other than y'all don't know what you're talking about, the media is brainwashing you, etc.

anonymous

Not to be too gentrific, but why would Whites move into a nabe that's 95% ethnic? The prices in Brooklyn Heights/Carroll Gardens/DUMBO too astronomic? How would you feel living in a section of city that most people outside of it wouldn't want to be caught speeding in, let alone live there? And now it's become 'fashionable' to buy out the best brownstones and brick faces while the people who've lived there for generations are forced to relocate because the Yuppie/Gen X pop culture need to stretch their horizons? It would be cool to live shoulder to shoulder...Micks, Spics, Wops, Bunnies...and not ever having to hear those ethnic slurs because we're truly one people. But skin color has f***ed up our heads so bad we can ever get past it.

So here we are...people born and raised in The Stuy forced to move so that the mighty Whitey with money honey can live comfortably and commute easily to his/her comfy job on Park Ave, Mad Ave or Wall St...where People Of Color are few and far in between.

Hey, come on down to Brownsville or out to ENY where for a few dollars less you can live in even less gentrification.

Peace

anonymous

OK My point was totally missed. I was trying to point out how the person accusing the carribean guest of bein racist is not only an idiot but racist his/herself by making such a statement about Haiti.

That being said ...

Math and science scores around the word beat the USA by leaps and bound. Any country that has had 400 years of free labor should NEVER fall behind in any area. That's like a runner (most of the rest of the world) giving his opponent (USA) a headstart at the 3/4 mile mark and beating the opponent.

Here is a quote:
In math, only four countries had average scores lower than the United States. Students in 23 countries had a higher average score, and those in two countries did about the same as the Americans.

Here is the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html

http://www.edweek.org/login.html?source=http://www.google.com/search?q=world+education+math+scores&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&amp;destination=http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2005/01/05/16worldtests.h24.html&amp;levelId=2100&amp;baddebt=false


I used to work for the UN and the State Education Dept and will post some facts about Haiti's education system as soon as I pull some strings.

daver

BKlynForLife wrote: Not to be too gentrific, but why would Whites move into a nabe that's 95% ethnic? The prices in Brooklyn Heights/Carroll Gardens/DUMBO too astronomic? How would you feel living in a section of city that most people outside of it wouldn't want to be caught speeding in, let alone live there? And now it's become 'fashionable' to buy out the best brownstones and brick faces while the people who've lived there for generations are forced to relocate because the Yuppie/Gen X pop culture need to stretch their horizons?

Personally, because I'm living on ~$1,300/mo and yah, BH/CG/DUMBO are too much. I don't really give a crap what people living outside the area think about it. I didn't move here to be near all the ethnic stuff, but it is interesting and I don't dislike it. I think it sucks that it is becoming fashionable, because it means that I will need to move again soon. Last years rent increase was bad enough, with the new one they just approved, I'm probably at the end of my rope.

daver

IC_AnIdiot wrote: OK My point was totally missed. I was trying to point out how the person accusing the carribean guest of bein racist is not only an idiot but racist his/herself by making such a statement about Haiti.

That being said ...

Math and science scores around the word beat the USA by leaps and bound. Any country that has had 400 years of free labor should NEVER fall behind in any area. That's like a runner (most of the rest of the world) giving his opponent (USA) a headstart at the 3/4 mile mark and beating the opponent.

Here is a quote:
In math, only four countries had average scores lower than the United States. Students in 23 countries had a higher average score, and those in two countries did about the same as the Americans.

Here is the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html

http://www.edweek.org/login.html?source=http://www.google.com/search?q=world+education+math+scores&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&amp;destination=http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2005/01/05/16worldtests.h24.html&amp;levelId=2100&amp;baddebt=false


I used to work for the UN and the State Education Dept and will post some facts about Haiti's education system as soon as I pull some strings.

Yep, that is pretty sad. I would point out that those results are for the thirty most industrialized countries, and don't include Haiti or any Caribbean nation, for that matter. By which I don't mean that Caribbean educations suck, because I am admittedly ignorant on the topic. But what you cited doesn't support your point.

Further, about the world scores beating the US by "leaps and bounds," I'll buy that on the math, where the US got 24th out of thirty. On science they were 17th out of thirty though, which I would say puts them squarely into "average" territory.

Which isn't to say that I don't agree with you that there is absolutely no reason the US shouldn't be leading, or _at least_ in the upper half.

putnam-denizen

IC_AnIdiot wrote: OK My point was totally missed. I was trying to point out how the person accusing the carribean guest of bein racist is not only an idiot but racist his/herself by making such a statement about Haiti.

That being said ...

Math and science scores around the word beat the USA by leaps and bound. Any country that has had 400 years of free labor should NEVER fall behind in any area. That's like a runner (most of the rest of the world) giving his opponent (USA) a headstart at the 3/4 mile mark and beating the opponent.

Here is a quote:
In math, only four countries had average scores lower than the United States. Students in 23 countries had a higher average score, and those in two countries did about the same as the Americans.

Here is the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html

http://www.edweek.org/login.html?source=http://www.google.com/search?q=world+education+math+scores&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&amp;destination=http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2005/01/05/16worldtests.h24.html&amp;levelId=2100&amp;baddebt=false


I used to work for the UN and the State Education Dept and will post some facts about Haiti's education system as soon as I pull some strings.

Huh? When did you make any points before? And this compares US to other industrialized nations (of which Haiti is not one). And if you are indeed the "guest" of the racist flame up-thread, it was you who suggested (and apparently still have no facts on) that Haitian students scored better than their American counterparts in math and science.

As far as this country letting down its youth in education - well I don't hear anyone arguing otherwise here.

putnam-denizen

BKlynForLife wrote: Not to be too gentrific, but why would Whites move into a nabe that's 95% ethnic? The prices in Brooklyn Heights/Carroll Gardens/DUMBO too astronomic? How would you feel living in a section of city that most people outside of it wouldn't want to be caught speeding in, let alone live there? And now it's become 'fashionable' to buy out the best brownstones and brick faces while the people who've lived there for generations are forced to relocate because the Yuppie/Gen X pop culture need to stretch their horizons? It would be cool to live shoulder to shoulder...Micks, Spics, Wops, Bunnies...and not ever having to hear those ethnic slurs because we're truly one people. But skin color has f***ed up our heads so bad we can ever get past it.

So here we are...people born and raised in The Stuy forced to move so that the mighty Whitey with money honey can live comfortably and commute easily to his/her comfy job on Park Ave, Mad Ave or Wall St...where People Of Color are few and far in between.

Hey, come on down to Brownsville or out to ENY where for a few dollars less you can live in even less gentrification.

Peace

Is this a real question? Or just an excuse to use words like "micks, spics, wops and bunnies". There have been extensive threads on this previously, and those who actually want to engage in meaningful conversation have shared a host of reasons. I've worked and lived in majority "minority" communities for the past twenty-odd years (I am white). I've always paid asking price for the properties I've bought, and I say hi to everyone in the street (which I pick up every Sunday). I don't think I need to otherwise justify my presence or wish to live anywhere in this country.

tennisfan

BKlynForLife wrote: Not to be too gentrific, but why would Whites move into a nabe that's 95% ethnic?

Do you mean that anyone should move to a neighborhood where most of the residents belong to the same ethnicity as him/her? Isn't this called segregation?

The prices in Brooklyn Heights/Carroll Gardens/DUMBO too astronomic?

Personally yes. I don't see any problem with that.
Anyone here willing to chip in so that I can live in a neighborhood with more restaurants/stores/services?

How would you feel living in a section of city that most people outside of it wouldn't want to be caught speeding in, let alone live there?

Why should I care?

And now it's become 'fashionable' to buy out the best brownstones and brick faces while the people who've lived there for generations are forced to relocate because the Yuppie/Gen X pop culture need to stretch their horizons?

You should blame those brownstones owners and real estate agents who are trying to make a huge profit.

It would be cool to live shoulder to shoulder...Micks, Spics, Wops, Bunnies...and not ever having to hear those ethnic slurs because we're truly one people. But skin color has f***ed up our heads so bad we can ever get past it.

The original poster and myself never mentioned anything about race. The thread initially had nothing to do with race. You and others had to bring it up as if you can never get past it.

MOD

MOD NOTE: Hey guys, gals and guests... just a reminder to keep things civil, no name calling, and if you really want to start an intelligent discussion regarding education, Haiti etc your welcome to start a thread in the Brooklyn and Beyond board. For now please try and keep on topic somewhat. Thanks! -m

daver

Sorry to continue this in this thread, but since the discussion is here until split...

Found this:

Despite recent advances, educational systems in the Latin America and Caribbean region (LAC) continue to face serious shortcomings. The overall quality of education is poor, and LAC students consistently score near the bottom on international test comparisons. The gap in literacy between LAC countries and other regions of the world has widened in the last ten years.

The inferior quality of education impedes the ability of the region to move forward politically and economically. LAC lags behind its competitors educationally: Young workers in the region enter the labor force with fewer years of education than do workers in countries of similar incomes in Asia and the Middle East. Children in LAC countries attend school an average of 5.4 years. In some countries, only ten percent of students graduate from the sixth grade without repeating a grade. Many drop out of school all together.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/issues/education_issue.html

Which isn't to say that I believe everything my government tells me (ha!) Other opinions? Insights?

anonymous

daver wrote: Sorry to continue this in this thread, but since the discussion is here until split...

Found this:

Despite recent advances, educational systems in the Latin America and Caribbean region (LAC) continue to face serious shortcomings. The overall quality of education is poor, and LAC students consistently score near the bottom on international test comparisons. The gap in literacy between LAC countries and other regions of the world has widened in the last ten years.

The inferior quality of education impedes the ability of the region to move forward politically and economically. LAC lags behind its competitors educationally: Young workers in the region enter the labor force with fewer years of education than do workers in countries of similar incomes in Asia and the Middle East. Children in LAC countries attend school an average of 5.4 years. In some countries, only ten percent of students graduate from the sixth grade without repeating a grade. Many drop out of school all together.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/issues/education_issue.html

Which isn't to say that I believe everything my government tells me (ha!) Other opinions? Insights?

your US gov stats hold no credence.

If our education is so poor then why are we reading and writing at the age of 3 if not earlier? How come our high school students graduate in 5th form (your 11th grade) and are far beyond your 12th graders and all get scholarships to prestigious universities?

daver

Anonymous wrote: your US gov stats hold no credence.

If our education is so poor then why are we reading and writing at the age of 3 if not earlier? How come our high school students graduate in 5th form (your 11th grade) and are far beyond your 12th graders and all get scholarships to prestigious universities?

I feel like I'm pulling teeth here.

Pretend like I'm from Missouri. Show me.

If all Caribbeans get scholarships to prestigious universities due to their advanced learning, it should be pretty easy to display, no? If all Carribeans learn to read by age three or earlier, there should be somewhere I can learn about that, no? That is a pretty astounding feat. Other countries should definitely incorporate their methods.

anonymous

daver wrote: Carribeans

Caribbeans. Also the correct term is West Indians.