CH Shmira posting kid pics

sweet tea

as i see it, the primary difference is that it was relatively easy for us to make the incident known to his parents.*

it's harder with a stranger, but by no means impossible, particularly since it's within the neighborhood.




*oh, and that i had to still go to school every day with the little jerk. :rambo:

sweet tea

as i see it, the primary difference is that it was relatively easy for us to make the incident known to his parents.*

it's harder with a stranger, but by no means impossible, particularly since it's within the neighborhood.




*oh, and that i had to still go to school every day with the little jerk. :rambo:

anonymous

Subject: These kids

"These kids are throwing rocks and at kids. This is criminal, if anyone does not like their pictures on this site, all they need to do is BEHAVE! "
All of you should be angry at their parents for allowing their kids to throw rocks and injure innocent Jewish kids.

anonymous

Subject: These kids

"These kids are throwing rocks and at kids. This is criminal, if anyone does not like their pictures on this site, all they need to do is BEHAVE! "
All of you should be angry at their parents for allowing their kids to throw rocks and injure innocent Jewish kids.

daver

Subject: Re: These kids

very simple wrote: "These kids are throwing rocks and at kids. This is criminal, if anyone does not like their pictures on this site, all they need to do is BEHAVE! "
All of you should be angry at their parents for allowing their kids to throw rocks and injure innocent Jewish kids.

There is nothing in the report about any injuries. I would possibly entertain your argument were we talking about adults, perhaps even teenagers. We are talking about young children here, and the post is entirely inappropriate. You would not stand for such a thing being done to your children, and you should not allow it to be done to other's.

daver

Subject: Re: These kids

very simple wrote: "These kids are throwing rocks and at kids. This is criminal, if anyone does not like their pictures on this site, all they need to do is BEHAVE! "
All of you should be angry at their parents for allowing their kids to throw rocks and injure innocent Jewish kids.

There is nothing in the report about any injuries. I would possibly entertain your argument were we talking about adults, perhaps even teenagers. We are talking about young children here, and the post is entirely inappropriate. You would not stand for such a thing being done to your children, and you should not allow it to be done to other's.

homeowner

I'd suggest that a better way to deal with small children such as these is to TALK to them. Offer to walk them home, ask what they were doing, learn their names and where they live, maybe even go to their homes and explain to an adult that they were climbing over the fence and that they could have injured themselves or another child.

I don't disagree with you that there might be some 7, 8, 9 or 10 year olds that are just bad kids. But its more likely that they are just kids with too much free time, too little adult supervision, and a little jealousy. Rather than assuming that a ten-year old understands the nuances of racial or religious conflict and therefore is a threat to the future of the tribe, how about just treating them the way you would a child from your own community?

homeowner

I'd suggest that a better way to deal with small children such as these is to TALK to them. Offer to walk them home, ask what they were doing, learn their names and where they live, maybe even go to their homes and explain to an adult that they were climbing over the fence and that they could have injured themselves or another child.

I don't disagree with you that there might be some 7, 8, 9 or 10 year olds that are just bad kids. But its more likely that they are just kids with too much free time, too little adult supervision, and a little jealousy. Rather than assuming that a ten-year old understands the nuances of racial or religious conflict and therefore is a threat to the future of the tribe, how about just treating them the way you would a child from your own community?

whatchuwant

homeowner wrote: Rather than assuming that a ten-year old understands the nuances of racial or religious conflict and therefore is a threat to the future of the tribe, how about just treating them the way you would a child from your own community?

Well, see that's the problem, though. They of the jewish community DON'T WANT to deal with anyone outside of their community. They want to be left alone and they don't want to interact. Yet to their dismay, keeping themselves seperate (as successful as they have been at it) still doesn't work 100% in this city.
They don't believe in coming together because it's just not their way, I guess. And I find this incredibly sad.

whatchuwant

homeowner wrote: Rather than assuming that a ten-year old understands the nuances of racial or religious conflict and therefore is a threat to the future of the tribe, how about just treating them the way you would a child from your own community?

Well, see that's the problem, though. They of the jewish community DON'T WANT to deal with anyone outside of their community. They want to be left alone and they don't want to interact. Yet to their dismay, keeping themselves seperate (as successful as they have been at it) still doesn't work 100% in this city.
They don't believe in coming together because it's just not their way, I guess. And I find this incredibly sad.

anonymous

Subject: .

sweet tea wrote: as i see it, the primary difference is that it was relatively easy for us to make the incident known to his parents.*

it's harder with a stranger, but by no means impossible, particularly since it's within the neighborhood.




*oh, and that i had to still go to school every day with the little jerk. :rambo:

Its easy for you to say that it shouldn't be a problem to talk to the parents. I can say from personal experience when a young boy was starting up with my son I approached the parent present and instead of listening to what I have to say she immediately began yelling at me "you're not the police" etc.

I spoke to one of the Shmira members who was on the scene and he told me they tried speaking to the children nicely but the immediate response was sticking up the middle finger and using the "F" word.

They received a response and responded with thier posting. nothing wrong with it.

anonymous

Subject: .

sweet tea wrote: as i see it, the primary difference is that it was relatively easy for us to make the incident known to his parents.*

it's harder with a stranger, but by no means impossible, particularly since it's within the neighborhood.




*oh, and that i had to still go to school every day with the little jerk. :rambo:

Its easy for you to say that it shouldn't be a problem to talk to the parents. I can say from personal experience when a young boy was starting up with my son I approached the parent present and instead of listening to what I have to say she immediately began yelling at me "you're not the police" etc.

I spoke to one of the Shmira members who was on the scene and he told me they tried speaking to the children nicely but the immediate response was sticking up the middle finger and using the "F" word.

They received a response and responded with thier posting. nothing wrong with it.

daver

Subject: Re: .

ch resident wrote: Its easy for you to say that it shouldn't be a problem to talk to the parents. I can say from personal experience when a young boy was starting up with my son I approached the parent present and instead of listening to what I have to say she immediately began yelling at me "you're not the police" etc.

I spoke to one of the Shmira members who was on the scene and he told me they tried speaking to the children nicely but the immediate response was sticking up the middle finger and using the "F" word.

They received a response and responded with thier posting. nothing wrong with it.

I understand what you are saying and I feel your justified frustration. I still disagree that this is the proper response. I don't believe that it helps anything, and probably even makes the situation worse. Which I don't believe is your intention. It is truly unfortunate.

daver

Subject: Re: .

ch resident wrote: Its easy for you to say that it shouldn't be a problem to talk to the parents. I can say from personal experience when a young boy was starting up with my son I approached the parent present and instead of listening to what I have to say she immediately began yelling at me "you're not the police" etc.

I spoke to one of the Shmira members who was on the scene and he told me they tried speaking to the children nicely but the immediate response was sticking up the middle finger and using the "F" word.

They received a response and responded with thier posting. nothing wrong with it.

I understand what you are saying and I feel your justified frustration. I still disagree that this is the proper response. I don't believe that it helps anything, and probably even makes the situation worse. Which I don't believe is your intention. It is truly unfortunate.

jf22561

The situation in Crown Heights has always been bad - posting a picture is not going to make anything worse! Crown Heights has always been a very high crime area and - ask the police, look at the records, it is NO secret - it's not the Chassidic community doing the robbing, raping, stabbing, mugging, murdering, dog fighting - have I missed anything??? Never heard of Shmira before (seriously, I hadn't) but after looking at their site, I think they're doing a great job! Looks like they're responding to cries for help from ALL of the people in the community - not just their own. I cannot believe the misplaced sympathy for these two kids. You would think that they were beaten and strung up the way some of you have responded. Who knows what these kids would have done if Shmira hadn't intervened and told them to leave. And don't say they're "too young" - kids can and do commit murder! If these kids have ANY good in them - and hopefully they do - they will learn from this and behave better. BTW, those kids might be sitting at their computer right now bragging about getting their picture on the net - ya never know!

jf22561

The situation in Crown Heights has always been bad - posting a picture is not going to make anything worse! Crown Heights has always been a very high crime area and - ask the police, look at the records, it is NO secret - it's not the Chassidic community doing the robbing, raping, stabbing, mugging, murdering, dog fighting - have I missed anything??? Never heard of Shmira before (seriously, I hadn't) but after looking at their site, I think they're doing a great job! Looks like they're responding to cries for help from ALL of the people in the community - not just their own. I cannot believe the misplaced sympathy for these two kids. You would think that they were beaten and strung up the way some of you have responded. Who knows what these kids would have done if Shmira hadn't intervened and told them to leave. And don't say they're "too young" - kids can and do commit murder! If these kids have ANY good in them - and hopefully they do - they will learn from this and behave better. BTW, those kids might be sitting at their computer right now bragging about getting their picture on the net - ya never know!

sweet tea

kids can and do throw rocks without intent to maim and kill, too. the implication that the kids are evil really troubles me.

here's my thinking: people are social. they like to have attention. if you give children positive attention -- and i include appropriate punishment in this category, as long as it is intended compassionately and carried out thoughtfully -- then they are more likely to adjust their behavior to get praise. if you immediately treat them as outlaws, then they will do what outlaws do: write off ever getting praise from you, and instead adjust their behavior such that they get praise from those who encourage rule-breaking.

if i were one of those kids, the comment that i should be locked up would not make me more likely to develop respect for my neighbors.

sweet tea

kids can and do throw rocks without intent to maim and kill, too. the implication that the kids are evil really troubles me.

here's my thinking: people are social. they like to have attention. if you give children positive attention -- and i include appropriate punishment in this category, as long as it is intended compassionately and carried out thoughtfully -- then they are more likely to adjust their behavior to get praise. if you immediately treat them as outlaws, then they will do what outlaws do: write off ever getting praise from you, and instead adjust their behavior such that they get praise from those who encourage rule-breaking.

if i were one of those kids, the comment that i should be locked up would not make me more likely to develop respect for my neighbors.

daver

jf22561 wrote: it's not the Chassidic community doing the robbing, raping, stabbing, mugging, murdering, dog fighting - have I missed anything??? Never heard of Shmira before (seriously, I hadn't) but after looking at their site, I think they're doing a great job!

If it is your implication that the "black community" is "robbing, raping, stabbing, mugging, murdering, dog fighting" then that is pretty misguided and overreaching.

Regarding the Shmira, the Brooklyn district attorney equates them to the Crips and the Bloods, FYI.

“You can’t have a group, whether it’s the Bloods, Crips or Shmira, acting like vigilantes,” Mr. Hynes told The New York Jewish Week last month.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/nyregion/22crown.html

Yitzhak Shucha was shielded by the community following the beating of a black college student, citing their religious prohibition against speaking with the authorities (which sounds a LOT like "no snitching" to me.) A grand jury had to be convened to even get the arrest warrant.

Brooklyn DA Charles Hynes convened the grand jury so his investigators could use subpoena power to squeeze witnesses he claimed were not cooperating with police following the incident.

Shucha has since reportedly fled to Canada and on to Israel.
NYPost

I'm not sure how much clearer I can be in saying that what is going on IS NOT WORKING.

daver

jf22561 wrote: it's not the Chassidic community doing the robbing, raping, stabbing, mugging, murdering, dog fighting - have I missed anything??? Never heard of Shmira before (seriously, I hadn't) but after looking at their site, I think they're doing a great job!

If it is your implication that the "black community" is "robbing, raping, stabbing, mugging, murdering, dog fighting" then that is pretty misguided and overreaching.

Regarding the Shmira, the Brooklyn district attorney equates them to the Crips and the Bloods, FYI.

“You can’t have a group, whether it’s the Bloods, Crips or Shmira, acting like vigilantes,” Mr. Hynes told The New York Jewish Week last month.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/nyregion/22crown.html

Yitzhak Shucha was shielded by the community following the beating of a black college student, citing their religious prohibition against speaking with the authorities (which sounds a LOT like "no snitching" to me.) A grand jury had to be convened to even get the arrest warrant.

Brooklyn DA Charles Hynes convened the grand jury so his investigators could use subpoena power to squeeze witnesses he claimed were not cooperating with police following the incident.

Shucha has since reportedly fled to Canada and on to Israel.
NYPost

I'm not sure how much clearer I can be in saying that what is going on IS NOT WORKING.

jf22561

Daver, that was one AWFUL incident and whoever is responsible should be dealt with accordinly - that's not in question. However it was not a crime epidemic of robbing, raping, mugging, dog fighting, murdering, stabbing that has gone on for many years. From the article you cited: Mendy Borevitz, 13, who is Jewish, said he had been mugged by black teenagers. “A lot of my friends it happened to, and they just didn’t tell anybody.” You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. I also think that Brookly DA Hynes is a moron to even use Shmira in the same sentence as the Bloods and the Crips - oh my goodness that's laughable!

jf22561

Daver, that was one AWFUL incident and whoever is responsible should be dealt with accordinly - that's not in question. However it was not a crime epidemic of robbing, raping, mugging, dog fighting, murdering, stabbing that has gone on for many years. From the article you cited: Mendy Borevitz, 13, who is Jewish, said he had been mugged by black teenagers. “A lot of my friends it happened to, and they just didn’t tell anybody.” You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. I also think that Brookly DA Hynes is a moron to even use Shmira in the same sentence as the Bloods and the Crips - oh my goodness that's laughable!

jf22561

sweet tea, it was already stated that the Shmira person got the finger when he approached the kid - I don't think it's up to Shmira to teach kids manners - that's up to their parents and the schools and their relatives. Shmira is just trying to prevent more crime. But, we can agree to disagree. . . .

jf22561

sweet tea, it was already stated that the Shmira person got the finger when he approached the kid - I don't think it's up to Shmira to teach kids manners - that's up to their parents and the schools and their relatives. Shmira is just trying to prevent more crime. But, we can agree to disagree. . . .

anonymous

Subject: schmira

The Shmira are a gang. Just like the Crypts (if I spelled that right), the Bloods, and the Latin Kings. Oh yeah, and the mafia. They are just commen criminals only they pretend to be something else whereas most gangs own up to who they are.

anonymous

Subject: schmira

The Shmira are a gang. Just like the Crypts (if I spelled that right), the Bloods, and the Latin Kings. Oh yeah, and the mafia. They are just commen criminals only they pretend to be something else whereas most gangs own up to who they are.

daver

Wow jf22561, you sure are vitriolically defending an organization that you claim to have never heard of before.

Very interesting, that.

FYI, people of every religion and color get mugged in this neighborhood. There is a high crime rate here. It ain't a Jewish thang.

You say that the incident should be dealt with- why then was the Shmira member hidden and whisked out of the country? Why did witnesses refuse to speak with the police? I'm taken to understand from the police that this sort of thing isn't far from the exception with the Shmira. Further, I believe that there is currently another member named Prager on the run as well. I'm not going to bother digging through records right now, but I also believe that he has been convicted in the past of assault for some of their "policing."

daver

Wow jf22561, you sure are vitriolically defending an organization that you claim to have never heard of before.

Very interesting, that.

FYI, people of every religion and color get mugged in this neighborhood. There is a high crime rate here. It ain't a Jewish thang.

You say that the incident should be dealt with- why then was the Shmira member hidden and whisked out of the country? Why did witnesses refuse to speak with the police? I'm taken to understand from the police that this sort of thing isn't far from the exception with the Shmira. Further, I believe that there is currently another member named Prager on the run as well. I'm not going to bother digging through records right now, but I also believe that he has been convicted in the past of assault for some of their "policing."

jf22561

Daver, I never said it was a Jewish thing! But I did say that Shmira HELPS ALL people of the community - maybe you misread(?) The woman who was stabbed was not Jewish - she was Black. I also don't think the Livery driver they helped was Jewish. If you look at their site, you'll see what I'm talking about. Anyway, I gather that you live in that area. I hope you're doing everything you can to promote safety and harmony there. I know I would if I lived there. This reminds me of how the Guardian Angels used to be perceived - now that was something!

jf22561

Daver, I never said it was a Jewish thing! But I did say that Shmira HELPS ALL people of the community - maybe you misread(?) The woman who was stabbed was not Jewish - she was Black. I also don't think the Livery driver they helped was Jewish. If you look at their site, you'll see what I'm talking about. Anyway, I gather that you live in that area. I hope you're doing everything you can to promote safety and harmony there. I know I would if I lived there. This reminds me of how the Guardian Angels used to be perceived - now that was something!