CH Shmira posting kid pics

jeffrey

jf22561 wrote: This reminds me of how the Guardian Angels used to be perceived - now that was something!

And dollar vans.

jeffrey

jf22561 wrote: This reminds me of how the Guardian Angels used to be perceived - now that was something!

And dollar vans.

jf22561

jeffrey wrote: And dollar vans.

Cute!!

jf22561

jeffrey wrote: And dollar vans.

Cute!!

alafairnadia

hrm. if I ever find myself in a spot of trouble in CH, I'm going to depend on, in this order, myself, fellow citizens, the cops and then .. maybe the shmira to help me out. I definitely think the shmira's focus is on protecting a certain community. they don't appear to be so heartless as to turn away people in need of a different community, but they aren't actively seeking out assisting folks. if they were, community bridging would be much further along.

and posting pics of little kids deemed evil-doers? does that mean I get to post pics of every jewish person I've done shabbas-goy work for? I hear the truly righteous don't take kindly to people who need an assist during the shabbas.

alafairnadia

hrm. if I ever find myself in a spot of trouble in CH, I'm going to depend on, in this order, myself, fellow citizens, the cops and then .. maybe the shmira to help me out. I definitely think the shmira's focus is on protecting a certain community. they don't appear to be so heartless as to turn away people in need of a different community, but they aren't actively seeking out assisting folks. if they were, community bridging would be much further along.

and posting pics of little kids deemed evil-doers? does that mean I get to post pics of every jewish person I've done shabbas-goy work for? I hear the truly righteous don't take kindly to people who need an assist during the shabbas.

sweet tea

jf22561 wrote: sweet tea, it was already stated that the Shmira person got the finger when he approached the kid - I don't think it's up to Shmira to teach kids manners - that's up to their parents and the schools and their relatives. Shmira is just trying to prevent more crime. But, we can agree to disagree. . . .

i just keep thinking of something my aunt, the mother of two very troublesome boys, used to say when she would break up their fighting:

"i don't care who started it. i want to know who tried to stop it."

sweet tea

jf22561 wrote: sweet tea, it was already stated that the Shmira person got the finger when he approached the kid - I don't think it's up to Shmira to teach kids manners - that's up to their parents and the schools and their relatives. Shmira is just trying to prevent more crime. But, we can agree to disagree. . . .

i just keep thinking of something my aunt, the mother of two very troublesome boys, used to say when she would break up their fighting:

"i don't care who started it. i want to know who tried to stop it."

anonymous

Subject: no good

i think you should see the sick potrol the one that thinks there are cops and have scooters its sick one of them think he works in the OME office when he just stands there and look busy so shmira is good shomrim is the bad one ...

anonymous

Subject: no good

i think you should see the sick potrol the one that thinks there are cops and have scooters its sick one of them think he works in the OME office when he just stands there and look busy so shmira is good shomrim is the bad one ...

daver

Subject: Re: no good

shomrim wrote: i think you should see the sick potrol the one that thinks there are cops and have scooters its sick one of them think he works in the OME office when he just stands there and look busy so shmira is good shomrim is the bad one ...

Le sigh. Yes, in fact Crown Heights has two Jewish patrol groups that feud between each other.

“Shmira has a litany of things about Shomrim that they say they did wrong,” said Dov Hikind, an assemblyman who represents several other heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn. “As for Shomrim, when I met with them, they said, ‘We have a file about Shmira.’ ”

Aron Hershkop, the coordinator of Shomrim, said that Shmira members had intimidated his volunteers, falsely informed on them to the police, and even jammed their radios with shrieks, beeping sounds and what he described as “Christian music.”

Yossi Stern, the director of Shmira, denied these accusations, saying, in effect, that Mr. Hershkop was a sore loser with a weakening organization.

NY Times: Patrolling the Streets, and Dissing the Rivals

daver

Subject: Re: no good

shomrim wrote: i think you should see the sick potrol the one that thinks there are cops and have scooters its sick one of them think he works in the OME office when he just stands there and look busy so shmira is good shomrim is the bad one ...

Le sigh. Yes, in fact Crown Heights has two Jewish patrol groups that feud between each other.

“Shmira has a litany of things about Shomrim that they say they did wrong,” said Dov Hikind, an assemblyman who represents several other heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn. “As for Shomrim, when I met with them, they said, ‘We have a file about Shmira.’ ”

Aron Hershkop, the coordinator of Shomrim, said that Shmira members had intimidated his volunteers, falsely informed on them to the police, and even jammed their radios with shrieks, beeping sounds and what he described as “Christian music.”

Yossi Stern, the director of Shmira, denied these accusations, saying, in effect, that Mr. Hershkop was a sore loser with a weakening organization.

NY Times: Patrolling the Streets, and Dissing the Rivals

drkman

This is really sad. Posting pictures of children on a website and saying lock them up for being, dare I say it, kids. Bad behind kids, probably, but still kids doing kid things. I have never had a problem with the Jewish Community in Crown Heights but some of the things that I have read on this board gives me pause. The constant references identifying Jewish kids or Jewish people and how they do no wrong and everyone else is horrible etc. Sad, really sad. With so many police on patrol in the area, it would have been a very simple thing to have the police talk to the kids and handle the situation without posting their picture on the internet. I also don't know if it is entirely legal to post a picture of a minor without consent. You can take a picture but posting it may be something else entirely. Don't know for sure though.

Anyway, I don't think it would go over well if I had a site and started posting pictures of Jewish people in Crown Heights and writing unconfirmed blogs about their criminal behavior. That would be wrong, the same way I feel posting these kids pictures is wrong.

drkman

This is really sad. Posting pictures of children on a website and saying lock them up for being, dare I say it, kids. Bad behind kids, probably, but still kids doing kid things. I have never had a problem with the Jewish Community in Crown Heights but some of the things that I have read on this board gives me pause. The constant references identifying Jewish kids or Jewish people and how they do no wrong and everyone else is horrible etc. Sad, really sad. With so many police on patrol in the area, it would have been a very simple thing to have the police talk to the kids and handle the situation without posting their picture on the internet. I also don't know if it is entirely legal to post a picture of a minor without consent. You can take a picture but posting it may be something else entirely. Don't know for sure though.

Anyway, I don't think it would go over well if I had a site and started posting pictures of Jewish people in Crown Heights and writing unconfirmed blogs about their criminal behavior. That would be wrong, the same way I feel posting these kids pictures is wrong.

sandcastler

re: monday 5:19 post with list of permissible subjects

My understanding is that in a public area one may take photographs of people, bridges, buildings, etc., and, yes, children. It is a right protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution, according to rulings (of the US Supreme Court).

However, publishing photographs is different than taking them. When making an assertion about something for which you have no proof, you could be liable for defamation of character, libel, slander, and etc., and, while the standards are pretty high with regards to civil damages, it is not unheard of. I believe malicious intent or blatant disregard for common verification may come into play. Are these present? I don't know. But it sure doesn't sound like there is any clear evidence of these two children being the two little miscreants. Evidence is the key here.

Give you a different case than this one so the emotions of this case can be put aside for contemplation. Imagine there was a case of food poisoning in a restaurant in the area. You don't know which one. But you see a restaurant in the area, take a picture of it (still within your rights), and publish it (still within your rights) with the caption "area restaurant poisons diners." (not within your rights).

Bottom line: it is not the taking of the picture nor the publication of it per se, it is the captioning of it which is possibly a transgression of the law.

Lawyers, am i right?

sandcastler

re: monday 5:19 post with list of permissible subjects

My understanding is that in a public area one may take photographs of people, bridges, buildings, etc., and, yes, children. It is a right protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution, according to rulings (of the US Supreme Court).

However, publishing photographs is different than taking them. When making an assertion about something for which you have no proof, you could be liable for defamation of character, libel, slander, and etc., and, while the standards are pretty high with regards to civil damages, it is not unheard of. I believe malicious intent or blatant disregard for common verification may come into play. Are these present? I don't know. But it sure doesn't sound like there is any clear evidence of these two children being the two little miscreants. Evidence is the key here.

Give you a different case than this one so the emotions of this case can be put aside for contemplation. Imagine there was a case of food poisoning in a restaurant in the area. You don't know which one. But you see a restaurant in the area, take a picture of it (still within your rights), and publish it (still within your rights) with the caption "area restaurant poisons diners." (not within your rights).

Bottom line: it is not the taking of the picture nor the publication of it per se, it is the captioning of it which is possibly a transgression of the law.

Lawyers, am i right?

anonymous

Subject: crown heights shmira

to the one who wrote chasidim don't interact...yada yada and want nothing to do wityh others...you are biased, blind and obviously on meds. Go to Lefferts park any day after school or weekends (except jewsih shabbath() and watch how many black kids are on teams with the jewish kids. My neighbors two jewsih kids play basketball with blacks and get along just fine. So take you biased head outta the sand and smell the coffee. It aint's so bad in CH - outsiders and rabblerousers like to cause alarm. Other then the friggin losers who are hell bent on causing problems and robbing because they are to lazy to work for the buck; we're fine!

anonymous

Subject: crown heights shmira

to the one who wrote chasidim don't interact...yada yada and want nothing to do wityh others...you are biased, blind and obviously on meds. Go to Lefferts park any day after school or weekends (except jewsih shabbath() and watch how many black kids are on teams with the jewish kids. My neighbors two jewsih kids play basketball with blacks and get along just fine. So take you biased head outta the sand and smell the coffee. It aint's so bad in CH - outsiders and rabblerousers like to cause alarm. Other then the friggin losers who are hell bent on causing problems and robbing because they are to lazy to work for the buck; we're fine!

anonymous

Subject: .

sandcastler wrote: re: monday 5:19 post with list of permissible subjects


However, publishing photographs is different than taking them. When making an assertion about something for which you have no proof, you could be liable for defamation of character, libel, slander, and etc.,

first of all you are once again like many other ASSUMING that there is no proof.

There are a handful of witnesses both chidren and adults who witnessed the entire thing.

secondly, according to all of you how can it be defamation when they were simply "behaving as normal children do" ?????

There is no defamation if what is alleged is only normal behaviour.

anonymous

Subject: .

sandcastler wrote: re: monday 5:19 post with list of permissible subjects


However, publishing photographs is different than taking them. When making an assertion about something for which you have no proof, you could be liable for defamation of character, libel, slander, and etc.,

first of all you are once again like many other ASSUMING that there is no proof.

There are a handful of witnesses both chidren and adults who witnessed the entire thing.

secondly, according to all of you how can it be defamation when they were simply "behaving as normal children do" ?????

There is no defamation if what is alleged is only normal behaviour.

anonymous

Subject: .

drkman wrote: The constant references identifying Jewish kids or Jewish people and how they do no wrong and everyone else is horrible etc. Sad, really sad. With so many police on patrol in the area, it would have been a very simple thing to have the police talk to the kids and handle the situation without posting their picture on the internet.

This is not a matter of opinion only facts. If you look at the facts e.g. Police reports MOST of the crime in Crown Heights is being perpetrated by young black men and almost no crime whatsoever by the Jewish/Hasidic community. The truth can hurt sometimes but there it is.

As far as the Police go, you claim they should have called PD to deal with the issue. Other posters on this site strongly oppose that approach.

What it comes down to is this; none of you give two hoots about the Jewish boys who got hurt, all you are worried about is the "poor black kids" whos pics went up on a some website.
All of you keep pointing out that the blak boys are only children but forget about the Jewish boys who are also children.

If any of you have any better solutions on how to deal with a situation like this (and don't tell to talk to them or their parents since that had already been proven unsuccessful time and again) then be constructive and add in your two cents. otherwise why don't you all aim your baseless hate elsewhere.

anonymous

Subject: .

drkman wrote: The constant references identifying Jewish kids or Jewish people and how they do no wrong and everyone else is horrible etc. Sad, really sad. With so many police on patrol in the area, it would have been a very simple thing to have the police talk to the kids and handle the situation without posting their picture on the internet.

This is not a matter of opinion only facts. If you look at the facts e.g. Police reports MOST of the crime in Crown Heights is being perpetrated by young black men and almost no crime whatsoever by the Jewish/Hasidic community. The truth can hurt sometimes but there it is.

As far as the Police go, you claim they should have called PD to deal with the issue. Other posters on this site strongly oppose that approach.

What it comes down to is this; none of you give two hoots about the Jewish boys who got hurt, all you are worried about is the "poor black kids" whos pics went up on a some website.
All of you keep pointing out that the blak boys are only children but forget about the Jewish boys who are also children.

If any of you have any better solutions on how to deal with a situation like this (and don't tell to talk to them or their parents since that had already been proven unsuccessful time and again) then be constructive and add in your two cents. otherwise why don't you all aim your baseless hate elsewhere.

daver

Subject: Re: .

ch resident wrote: This is not a matter of opinion only facts. If you look at the facts e.g. Police reports MOST of the crime in Crown Heights is being perpetrated by young black men and almost no crime whatsoever by the Jewish/Hasidic community. The truth can hurt sometimes but there it is.

I would expect black crime to _far_ outnumber any other crime, by simple virtue of the population of the precinct. There are many other factors at work other than race and religion here, socioeconomic for instance.

As far as the Police go, you claim they should have called PD to deal with the issue. Other posters on this site strongly oppose that approach.

If it rises to the level of police involvement, then by all means call the police. That is a judgment call.

What it comes down to is this; none of you give two hoots about the Jewish boys who got hurt,

That is absolutely untrue, there is nowhere in this thread that says anyone doesn't care about tha Jewish boys. Additionally, NOWHERE in the Shmira report does it say that the Jewish boys were injured. If they were, then it is unthinkable that the police were not called.

all you are worried about is the "poor black kids" whos pics went up on a some website.

Yes, the thread was posted about the propriety of posting pictures children who are being accused of a crime on a website, without conviction.

All of you keep pointing out that the blak boys are only children but forget about the Jewish boys who are also children.

Not true. Everyone is entitled to safety and security.

If any of you have any better solutions on how to deal with a situation like this (and don't tell to talk to them or their parents since that had already been proven unsuccessful time and again) then be constructive and add in your two cents.

Judgment calls based on the situation. The facts of this particular case seem to mutate depending on who is talking about it so it is hard to say. As a rule of thumb, I would say that if anyone is injured, ESPECIALLY children, the police should most definitely be called.

otherwise why don't you all aim your baseless hate elsewhere.

What hate? No one is hating.

daver

Subject: Re: .

ch resident wrote: This is not a matter of opinion only facts. If you look at the facts e.g. Police reports MOST of the crime in Crown Heights is being perpetrated by young black men and almost no crime whatsoever by the Jewish/Hasidic community. The truth can hurt sometimes but there it is.

I would expect black crime to _far_ outnumber any other crime, by simple virtue of the population of the precinct. There are many other factors at work other than race and religion here, socioeconomic for instance.

As far as the Police go, you claim they should have called PD to deal with the issue. Other posters on this site strongly oppose that approach.

If it rises to the level of police involvement, then by all means call the police. That is a judgment call.

What it comes down to is this; none of you give two hoots about the Jewish boys who got hurt,

That is absolutely untrue, there is nowhere in this thread that says anyone doesn't care about tha Jewish boys. Additionally, NOWHERE in the Shmira report does it say that the Jewish boys were injured. If they were, then it is unthinkable that the police were not called.

all you are worried about is the "poor black kids" whos pics went up on a some website.

Yes, the thread was posted about the propriety of posting pictures children who are being accused of a crime on a website, without conviction.

All of you keep pointing out that the blak boys are only children but forget about the Jewish boys who are also children.

Not true. Everyone is entitled to safety and security.

If any of you have any better solutions on how to deal with a situation like this (and don't tell to talk to them or their parents since that had already been proven unsuccessful time and again) then be constructive and add in your two cents.

Judgment calls based on the situation. The facts of this particular case seem to mutate depending on who is talking about it so it is hard to say. As a rule of thumb, I would say that if anyone is injured, ESPECIALLY children, the police should most definitely be called.

otherwise why don't you all aim your baseless hate elsewhere.

What hate? No one is hating.

anonymous

Subject: Crown Heights

To jf22561,
I grew up in Crown Heights and no it was not always a High Crime Area. When I was growing up it was quite safe, but then the world has changed tremendously since then. There was a time when the children of Crown Heights had mom's who stayed at home while there husbands worked and the mom's would be outside sitting in chairs making sure their children behaved.
Not only were the children friend s and taught right from wrong, but the mother's were friends. In those days if a child did something that wasn't nice it got back to the parents and the problem was taken care of.I know it is difficult to imagine when it was safe to walk Franklin Avenue even at 2 A.M. The area did not go downhill until the mid 1960's.

anonymous

Subject: Crown Heights

To jf22561,
I grew up in Crown Heights and no it was not always a High Crime Area. When I was growing up it was quite safe, but then the world has changed tremendously since then. There was a time when the children of Crown Heights had mom's who stayed at home while there husbands worked and the mom's would be outside sitting in chairs making sure their children behaved.
Not only were the children friend s and taught right from wrong, but the mother's were friends. In those days if a child did something that wasn't nice it got back to the parents and the problem was taken care of.I know it is difficult to imagine when it was safe to walk Franklin Avenue even at 2 A.M. The area did not go downhill until the mid 1960's.

drkman

Subject: Re: .

ch resident wrote: [quote=drkman] The constant references identifying Jewish kids or Jewish people and how they do no wrong and everyone else is horrible etc. Sad, really sad. With so many police on patrol in the area, it would have been a very simple thing to have the police talk to the kids and handle the situation without posting their picture on the internet.

This is not a matter of opinion only facts. If you look at the facts e.g. Police reports MOST of the crime in Crown Heights is being perpetrated by young black men and almost no crime whatsoever by the Jewish/Hasidic community. The truth can hurt sometimes but there it is.

As far as the Police go, you claim they should have called PD to deal with the issue. Other posters on this site strongly oppose that approach.

What it comes down to is this; none of you give two hoots about the Jewish boys who got hurt, all you are worried about is the "poor black kids" whos pics went up on a some website.
All of you keep pointing out that the blak boys are only children but forget about the Jewish boys who are also children.

If any of you have any better solutions on how to deal with a situation like this (and don't tell to talk to them or their parents since that had already been proven unsuccessful time and again) then be constructive and add in your two cents. otherwise why don't you all aim your baseless hate elsewhere.

First off I have not said anything about facts. This thread was about the posting of kids pictures on the internet and my response was based on that and some of the other responses. Personally, I don't see the reason for nor the benefit of constantly bringing ethnicity into the posts. Crime is a problem regardless of who it is. The truth that some Black people commit crime in Crown Heights does not hurt me. There is no baseless hate going on here. My problem is the constant statements of how Jewish people are being unfairly targeted by Blacks in Crown Heights. The way it appears is that if a Jewish person did not experience crime then the problem of crime is no longer important and it is important to ALL residents of Crown Heights.

Where is the outrage for the people that got mugged around Eastern Parkway and Franklin? There were posts on the board about it and people were upset because a crime occured. Not who it occured to or who committed it but that a crime occured. That is where the focus should be at, IMO.

Do I have the answers? No, I do not but I do know that dividing the community into us and them is not the solution.

drkman

Subject: Re: .

ch resident wrote: [quote=drkman] The constant references identifying Jewish kids or Jewish people and how they do no wrong and everyone else is horrible etc. Sad, really sad. With so many police on patrol in the area, it would have been a very simple thing to have the police talk to the kids and handle the situation without posting their picture on the internet.

This is not a matter of opinion only facts. If you look at the facts e.g. Police reports MOST of the crime in Crown Heights is being perpetrated by young black men and almost no crime whatsoever by the Jewish/Hasidic community. The truth can hurt sometimes but there it is.

As far as the Police go, you claim they should have called PD to deal with the issue. Other posters on this site strongly oppose that approach.

What it comes down to is this; none of you give two hoots about the Jewish boys who got hurt, all you are worried about is the "poor black kids" whos pics went up on a some website.
All of you keep pointing out that the blak boys are only children but forget about the Jewish boys who are also children.

If any of you have any better solutions on how to deal with a situation like this (and don't tell to talk to them or their parents since that had already been proven unsuccessful time and again) then be constructive and add in your two cents. otherwise why don't you all aim your baseless hate elsewhere.

First off I have not said anything about facts. This thread was about the posting of kids pictures on the internet and my response was based on that and some of the other responses. Personally, I don't see the reason for nor the benefit of constantly bringing ethnicity into the posts. Crime is a problem regardless of who it is. The truth that some Black people commit crime in Crown Heights does not hurt me. There is no baseless hate going on here. My problem is the constant statements of how Jewish people are being unfairly targeted by Blacks in Crown Heights. The way it appears is that if a Jewish person did not experience crime then the problem of crime is no longer important and it is important to ALL residents of Crown Heights.

Where is the outrage for the people that got mugged around Eastern Parkway and Franklin? There were posts on the board about it and people were upset because a crime occured. Not who it occured to or who committed it but that a crime occured. That is where the focus should be at, IMO.

Do I have the answers? No, I do not but I do know that dividing the community into us and them is not the solution.

sweet tea

drkman, i wish we still had rating stars.

sweet tea

drkman, i wish we still had rating stars.