how to get to manhattan if there is a strike????

oiseau

I'd bike over the Brooklyn Bridge but not on the bike lane as it would be filled up with pedestrians. I'd be riding withthe cars which I'm sure would be moving at a much slower rate than me.

Why couldn't these contracts be ending during the warm months?

apollonia666

Oiseau wrote: Why couldn't these contracts be ending during the warm months?

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING! Hells, yeah! I'd have a LOT more sympathy for the MTA workers if this were happening when it's not 15 degrees outside.

My director was here during the last strike and told us yesterday that even if we can get four people in a car it would take hours to get into the city. So he doesnt expect anyone to try to come in if a strike happens; instead, he just wants us to telecommute.

emily

According to most of the articles I've read, both sides recognize that it's a terrible time of year, so they're negotiating for a 27 or 39 month contract (ie. either 2 years + 3 months or 3 years + 3 months).

metulj

apollonia666 wrote: [quote=Oiseau]Why couldn't these contracts be ending during the warm months?

I'd have a LOT more sympathy for the MTA workers if this were happening when it's not 15 degrees outside.


I have a lot of sympathy for them now. It is tough work and the MTA is sitting on a pile of cash. They can hand it out to tourists then they sure as hell can hand it out to their workers. I was on the 4 train the other night and some asshole cut the conductor as his head went by when the train left Bowling Green. They stopped the train in the tunnel and we had to evacuate. Subway tunnels are fucking nasty, but luckily we only had to walk about 30 feet up to the platform. MTA jobs are not peaches and cream and are essential to the City, but they don't seem to want to pay essential workers the pay that essential workers deserve.

alex

metulj wrote: [quote=apollonia666][quote=Oiseau]Why couldn't these contracts be ending during the warm months?

I'd have a LOT more sympathy for the MTA workers if this were happening when it's not 15 degrees outside.


I have a lot of sympathy for them now. It is tough work and the MTA is sitting on a pile of cash. They can hand it out to tourists then they sure as hell can hand it out to their workers. I was on the 4 train the other night and some asshole cut the conductor as his head went by when the train left Bowling Green. They stopped the train in the tunnel and we had to evacuate. Subway tunnels are fucking nasty, but luckily we only had to walk about 30 feet up to the platform. MTA jobs are not peaches and cream and are essential to the City, but they don't seem to want to pay essential workers the pay that essential workers deserve.

That's a sad story but I have zero compassion for the MTA workers that are sitting behind the glass or doing other menial jobs. They also have the worst customer service ever. If they strike I hope they are all fired.

emily

metulj wrote: they don't seem to want to pay essential workers the pay that essential workers deserve.

How much is that, exactly? Because their average salary is more than mine--they're hardly poor. And do you really think it's reasonable to retire with a full pension at 50 when life expectancy for men and women is now over 77 years? What if they have to raise fares to pay for it? I'd be sympathetic if they were trying to cheap out on pensions for existing workers, but for the head of the union to refer to changing the pension plan for workers who aren't hired yet was "selling out our unborn" is weird and illogical. If they can't afford to continue with the current pension plan, isn't the fair way to handle it to change the plan for incoming workers?

It is true that those discounts were the stupidest idea ever. First, because they mostly benefit tourists and most tourists barely seem to have noticed them. Second because it was a totally moronic thing to do right before a negotiation that they obviously knew was coming up soon.

emily

My current hope is to call in sick Friday and for it to be over, Taylor-law style, by Monday. Thereafter, if anyone needs a warm body in a car heading towards Rock Center/Columbus Circle, let me know.

metulj

EmilyM wrote: [quote=metulj]they don't seem to want to pay essential workers the pay that essential workers deserve.

How much is that, exactly? Because their average salary is more than mine--they're hardly poor.



You get the transportation system you pay for. I think that people who work in the City have the right to the City and by that I mean a right to live in the City. If NYC costs an average of X per year to live here, then salaries should be commensurate with that X. Comparing your salary to what their salaries are is irrelevant. You don't do what they do and they don't do what you do. Marginal physical product might be a comparison, though, but just for oranges to oranges sake I think we shouldn't go there. A person who runs a subway train has vast amounts of responsibilty (hell as much as an airline pilot in some ways), has been trained and has experience and that means something in terms of wages. Race to the bottom if you want, but I'd rather tuck into a ride to work knowing it isn't just any schmuck at the tiller. Pay scales help ensure that. You keep ratcheting back pay increases and benefits and that race to the bottom will produce unqualified people behind the wheel. I think it is just a matter of time before that paradigm gets applied to uniformed services as well.

As for MTA sinecures, they are aggravating, but then again this might be the 'Power Company syndrome.' Power companies keep rafts of people on staff who do marginal work, but when a wicked storm hits it is all hands on deck. Still, it is hard to imagine what use most station clerks are if all they do is point to Metrocard machines and roll their eyes when you ask for change and what not.

It is true that those discounts were the stupidest idea ever. First, because they mostly benefit tourists and most tourists barely seem to have noticed them. Second because it was a totally moronic thing to do right before a negotiation that they obviously knew was coming up soon.

Never underestimate the power of an institutions to act stupidly. Remember, the pension mess is MTA's fault not the union. Also, a MTA employee retires with a half-pension at 55 if she has 25 years of service. That's a nice deal but not as sweetheart as it seems. So you sign on at 30 and work to 25 years, you get a half-pension but is that half pension going to cut it for what could be another 30 years of life? Do you keep working to the full pension? It would be a difficult decision. There's a lot of uncertainty there.

medusa

Carnivore wrote: [quote=Medusa]I think I'm pretty much screwed. I drive or subway from Bklyn to the Bronx. There's no easy way to bike and, besides, I come home at 10:30 pm.

I fear that I'll be sitting in traffic for hours.

I have some unhappy memories of the 1980 transit strike.

You cold go through Queens to the Bronx instead of Manhattan.

Yes, but the traffic will still be god awful.

apollonia666

Some up-to-date info from a memo that was just sent around by the HR department here at my office :

As of 12:00 pm, the City’s alternate transportation plans include:
* The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey plans to have PATH trains from the World trade Center stop up to 33rd Street.
* The Metro North Railroad plans to have shuttle service from grand Central Terminal to its Bronx stations, one-way fare is $3.00.
* The Long Island Railroad plans to have shuttle service from Pennsylvania Station to Jamaica, Queens with station stops along the route.
* New York Water Taxi has plans to operate boats between the Brooklyn Army Terminal and Pier 11.

In the event of a strike, there will be road closures. To date these are: Fifth and Madison Avenues from 23rd to 96th Streets; 26th, 29th, 49th and 50th Streets from 1st to 12th Avenues; parts of Nassau, Rector and Vesey Streets in lower Manhattan and Maiden Lane.

An important note on carpooling: Mayor Bloomberg has announced that cars with less than four people will not be permitted to enter Manhattan, south of 96th Street, from 5 to 11 a.m. weekdays.

Mayor Bloomberg has also said that during the strike, taxis will be permitted to have multiple fares.

For more information on the strike and other contingency plans, as the strike deadline approaches on Friday December 16, 2005, visit:

http://tinyurl.com/b9n6s

emily

metulj wrote: I think that people who work in the City have the right to the City and by that I mean a right to live in the City. If NYC costs an average of X per year to live here, then salaries should be commensurate with that X. Comparing your salary to what their salaries are is irrelevant. You don't do what they do and they don't do what you do.

My point is (a) I don't feel remotely sorry for them and (b) if what I earn is just fine for living in the city, what they earn is more than adequate. Most people I've talked to feel the same way: "Wow, transit workers' average pay is $55,000 a year?! That's pretty solid!"

A person who runs a subway train has vast amounts of responsibilty (hell as much as an airline pilot in some ways), has been trained and has experience and that means something in terms of wages.

I have no particular expertise on how to pilot anything, but I'd venture to say that piloting a bus or subway train takes vastly less skill than piloting an airplane. That counts for something.

Race to the bottom if you want, but I'd rather tuck into a ride to work knowing it isn't just any schmuck at the tiller. Pay scales help ensure that. You keep ratcheting back pay increases and benefits and that race to the bottom will produce unqualified people behind the wheel.

I agree with your principle but I don't see how the current MTA pay scale could provoke a race to the bottom. I've seen the ads for MTA personnel and the education/skill requirements are relatively low. I suspect that the pay is already very competitive for that level of skill and education.

qtrain

At mta.nyc.ny.us, Injunctions Prohibiting Illegal Strike

From a brief scan, looks like the State Supreme Court issued an injunction against the union striking, making it illegal.

Now what?

qtrain

Oh. The strike is already illegal under the Taylor Law.

Under Taylor, they would lose two days of pay for each day they strike.

alafairnadia

apollonia666 wrote: Some up-to-date info from a memo that was just sent around by the HR department here at my office :

In the event of a strike, there will be road closures. To date these are: Fifth and Madison Avenues from 23rd to 96th Streets; 26th, 29th, 49th and 50th Streets from 1st to 12th Avenues; parts of Nassau, Rector and Vesey Streets in lower Manhattan and Maiden Lane.

wait. WHAT? why road closures? why close down MIDTOWN? fuuuuuckkkkk.

metulj

qtrain wrote: Oh. The strike is already illegal under the Taylor Law.

Under Taylor, they would lose two days of pay for each day they strike.

They sold their headquarters and have some number approaching $60 million set aside for the fines. Toussaint is a weasel but he's a smart weasel.

anonymous

Subject: In Case of Strike and if you have a car ...

Take Eastern Parkway out to Bushwick Ave.
Take the Jackie Robinson east to the Van Wyck North.
Take the Van Wyck north to Northern Blvd. West.
You're at the Big Shea, home of los Mets.
Walk over the little bridge spanning the #7 tracks, and get on the Long Island Rail Road, heading west.
10 minutes later you're at Penn Station.
Don't worry if you don't see Shea on the LIRR schedules - all trains will stop there during strike.
Park Slope has two car pool staging areas. One at Byrne Park, 5th Ave and 3rd St, and the Bartel-Pritchard Square across the street from the Pavilion movie theater.

If you don't have a car and are in walking distance of the Atlantic Center, take the LIRR to Jamaica, then transfer to the LIRR to Penn Station.
If you work downtown a bit take the PATH train at 6th Ave/33rd St. Lat stop in NYC is Christopher St. Take it all the way to Hoboken, change there for a train to the WTC if you like riding trains all day.
If you work uptown, get those boots out.
Better yet ...
Take the LIRR at Atlantic Avenue to Jamaica.
Go upstairs and take the Air Train to JFK.
Go to terminal 6 and get on a Jet Blue plane flying south.

metulj

EmilyM wrote: [quote=metulj]I think that people who work in the City have the right to the City and by that I mean a right to live in the City. If NYC costs an average of X per year to live here, then salaries should be commensurate with that X. Comparing your salary to what their salaries are is irrelevant. You don't do what they do and they don't do what you do.

My point is (a) I don't feel remotely sorry for them and (b) if what I earn is just fine for living in the city, what they earn is more than adequate. Most people I've talked to feel the same way: "Wow, transit workers' average pay is $55,000 a year?! That's pretty solid!"



And my point is that your situation is particular to you. Don't generalize across all New Yorkers as to what is possible in terms of quality of life based on your ability to cope financially.

A person who runs a subway train has vast amounts of responsibilty (hell as much as an airline pilot in some ways), has been trained and has experience and that means something in terms of wages.

I have no particular expertise on how to pilot anything, but I'd venture to say that piloting a bus or subway train takes vastly less skill than piloting an airplane. That counts for something.

I am talking about responsibility and I think you would be shocked to find out how stressful driving a bus or train is.

Race to the bottom if you want, but I'd rather tuck into a ride to work knowing it isn't just any schmuck at the tiller. Pay scales help ensure that. You keep ratcheting back pay increases and benefits and that race to the bottom will produce unqualified people behind the wheel.

I agree with your principle but I don't see how the current MTA pay scale could provoke a race to the bottom. I've seen the ads for MTA personnel and the education/skill requirements are relatively low. I suspect that the pay is already very competitive for that level of skill and education.

If that pay scale doesn't adjust to economic realities, the bottom starts rushing up.

metulj

Subject: Re: In Case of Strike and if you have a car ...

dw438 wrote:
If you work downtown a bit take the PATH train at 6th Ave/33rd St. Lat stop in NYC is Christopher St. Take it all the way to Hoboken, change there for a train to the WTC if you like riding trains all day.
If you work uptown, get those boots out.

You can change at Journal Square or Exchange Place to get to the WTC fromt the Hoboken bound PATH train. That's not a bad idea actually.

steveo

Oiseau wrote: I'd bike over the Brooklyn Bridge but not on the bike lane as it would be filled up with pedestrians. I'd be riding withthe cars which I'm sure would be moving at a much slower rate than me.

Definitely take the Manhattan Bridge (epsecially if you are heading uptown) it will be much less crowded (and even has separate pedestrian and bike paths).

Transportation Alternatives has 5 Boro bike access on bridges info here:

http://www.transalt.org/bridges/index.html

(and also has strike bike tips on their homepage)

muteflute

the wburg bridge, to pitch it, is remarkably easy to get to from P-Heights, an they took the bumps out. Getting onto the manhattan bridge from here is a PAIN....

whyfi

alafairnadia wrote: [quote=apollonia666]Some up-to-date info from a memo that was just sent around by the HR department here at my office :

In the event of a strike, there will be road closures. To date these are: Fifth and Madison Avenues from 23rd to 96th Streets; 26th, 29th, 49th and 50th Streets from 1st to 12th Avenues; parts of Nassau, Rector and Vesey Streets in lower Manhattan and Maiden Lane.

wait. WHAT? why road closures? why close down MIDTOWN? fuuuuuckkkkk.

Those are thoroughfares for emergency vehicles.

hillaryj

So what do you guys think? Strike or not? I can't tell if all of this is hype or if it is possible.

Maybe we should start a poll.

Jane

vanilla

muteflute wrote: the wburg bridge, to pitch it, is remarkably easy to get to from P-Heights, an they took the bumps out. Getting onto the manhattan bridge from here is a PAIN....

bergen --> smith --> the manhattan bridge..

WAY faster than going upto the willy'b, not so much of a pain if you avoid flatbush.

qtrain

slideshow of the 1980 strike

alafairnadia

nybt wrote: [quote=alafairnadia][quote=apollonia666]Some up-to-date info from a memo that was just sent around by the HR department here at my office :

In the event of a strike, there will be road closures. To date these are: Fifth and Madison Avenues from 23rd to 96th Streets; 26th, 29th, 49th and 50th Streets from 1st to 12th Avenues; parts of Nassau, Rector and Vesey Streets in lower Manhattan and Maiden Lane.

wait. WHAT? why road closures? why close down MIDTOWN? fuuuuuckkkkk.

Those are thoroughfares for emergency vehicles.

thankfully, I heard last night (confirmed) that I have one of the few telecommute-able jobs in the firm. so yay. I can telecommute. er. go transit strike.

qtrain

Sweet! Our office policy is "normal working hours". And the forecast for tomorrow is 35 degrees/heavy rain during the am commute.

bewitched

This might be the only day that working in NJ is redeeming.

steveo

Subject: bike route to the manny b

vanilla wrote: [quote=muteflute]the wburg bridge, to pitch it, is remarkably easy to get to from P-Heights, an they took the bumps out. Getting onto the manhattan bridge from here is a PAIN....

bergen --> smith --> the manhattan bridge..

WAY faster than going upto the willy'b, not so much of a pain if you avoid flatbush.
I find Smith/Jay a bit gnarly.

Here's the route I like to take from Park Slope to the Manhattan Bridge (via Prospect Hts.) (Carlton to DeKalb to Ashland Pl./Navy to Sands)

Big long URL deleted

(or http://tinyurl.com/a65za )

Also, there's a couple of other bike routes on my Gmap Pedometer NYC bike route page here: http://www.panix.com/~steveo/bike_routes/

Thanks for doing the TinyURL, but it doesn't really help if you also include the big long URL!

emily

I separated "rides sought and offered" into a new thread, so this thread can be about general strategy...

oiseau

bewitched wrote: This might be the only day that working in NJ is redeeming.

Or commuting from NJ.