Eastern Parkway - Labor Day Weekend

adenyce

I recently moved into an apartment on Eastern Parkway and am trying to get a sense of what the area is like during Labor Day weekend. I know the parade takes place on Monday, but are there other activities going on during the weekend on Eastern Parkway. I'd like to invite family to visit on that Saturday, but don't know if the area would be inaccessible by car. Any insight anyone can provide is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

joseph11

if they have a good car I'd tell them to leave it home. The neighborhood gets very dangerous that weekend. Sat and sun night are the warm up partys. Alot of drugs and alot of fights. I recomend heading to the beach 4 the weekend.

alafairnadia

what is your cross st?

adenyce

Alafairnadia, we're between Rogers and Nostrand.

alafairnadia

I think you're going to have a lot of noise and major parking/street closure issues on sunday & monday. also, I hear the parties on saturday and sunday night are 100% anti-gay and doing some fucking bullshit "straight-pride". (yes, I curse like this in real life - ask anyone on the board) so I'm not sure how I feel about any of it anymore. maybe time for vegas. again.

daver

You should be accesible by car on Saturday. It will likely be busy. You may have to park a ways away. I don't think I would try it on Sunday. And everything will be closed on Monday. And fucking packed.

daver

joseph11 wrote: if they have a good car I'd tell them to leave it home. The neighborhood gets very dangerous that weekend. Sat and sun night are the warm up partys. Alot of drugs and alot of fights. I recomend heading to the beach 4 the weekend.

Honestly, my experience has been that the West Indian celebrations have far more people, and far less problems than say the St. Patrick's day festivities. This is just from personal observation, and I haven't run any crime stats to support it or anything. I have some theories regarding this, FWIW. The only problem I had last year was a pair of cops stopping me to tell me that I was the wrong color to be in the neighborhood. I told them that I lived there, and I would be OK. Which I was, no issues. Not that I've never had any issues in the neighborhood, but I didn't have any that weekend. YMMV.

am

There's a lot of people, a lot of music, a lot of celebration. I didn't find it particularly dangerous or uninviting last year at all but it is a bit overwhelming. It was a lot of people trying to have a lot of good time all at once.

whatchuwant

There is NEVER a problem parking all weekend. All cars must be moved by Monday morning, however. The past few years really haven't been bad at all in terms of people and/or noise. Usually, aside from j'ouvert Sunday at Midnight, all other festivities are confined to the parking lot behind the museum. Where you are, you shouldn't hear a peep from them. Because of j'ouvert Sunday night and the food stands setting up, Sunday night is a little rawkous (sp).

daver

Whatchuwant wrote: There is NEVER a problem parking all weekend. All cars must be moved by Monday morning, however. The past few years really haven't been bad at all in terms of people and/or noise. Usually, aside from j'ouvert Sunday at Midnight, all other festivities are confined to the parking lot behind the museum. Where you are, you shouldn't hear a peep from them. Because of j'ouvert Sunday night and the food stands setting up, Sunday night is a little rawkous (sp).

Hmm. My experience last year was different. I found Eastern Parkway around Nostrand to be fucking packed a lot of Monday. The streets were closed several blocks back. I can't imagine not being able to hear a peep from an apartment on Eastern between Nostrand and Rogers, I could hear plenty all the way back to St. Johns. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just saying. Maybe I just happened to be out and about at all the right times. It got less crowded as the day went on, moving towards GAP I suppose. I didn't have a car then, but I did notice people parking pretty solidly back towards Atlantic and then walking up to Eastern all morning.

paraderest

daver wrote: Honestly, my experience has been that the West Indian celebrations have far more people, and far less problems than say the St. Patrick's day festivities. This is just from personal observation, and I haven't run any crime stats to support it or anything. I have some theories regarding this, FWIW. The only problem I had last year was a pair of cops stopping me to tell me that I was the wrong color to be in the neighborhood. I told them that I lived there, and I would be OK. Which I was, no issues. Not that I've never had any issues in the neighborhood, but I didn't have any that weekend. YMMV.

I don't think anybody got shot at the St. Patrick's Day parade. They did at last years West Indian Day Parade. How about the guy that ran through Lincoln Terrace Park with an assault rifle? Does ESU need to bring out armored personell carriers for St. Patrick's Day? No. Do they bring them out for Eastern Pkwy? Yes.

daver

ParadeRest wrote: [quote=daver]Honestly, my experience has been that the West Indian celebrations have far more people, and far less problems than say the St. Patrick's day festivities. This is just from personal observation, and I haven't run any crime stats to support it or anything. I have some theories regarding this, FWIW. The only problem I had last year was a pair of cops stopping me to tell me that I was the wrong color to be in the neighborhood. I told them that I lived there, and I would be OK. Which I was, no issues. Not that I've never had any issues in the neighborhood, but I didn't have any that weekend. YMMV.

I don't think anybody got shot at the St. Patrick's Day parade. They did at last years West Indian Day Parade. How about the guy that ran through Lincoln Terrace Park with an assault rifle? Does ESU need to bring out armored personell carriers for St. Patrick's Day? No. Do they bring them out for Eastern Pkwy? Yes.
Not to minimize the impact, but one shooting over a couple days of 3+ million people celebrating? That honestly doesn't seem too bad. I've found St. Patrick's day to often feature a lot of drunk folks getting into fist fights. Especially asshole cops and firefighter. Which isn't to say that all cops and firefighters are assholes, because they aren't. Maybe those festivities just attract the wrong kind. Maybe I hung out in the wrong spot. I don't know. I do think that if law enforcement was involved in the actual parading at West Indian, you would be saying something entirely different right now. But what it comes down to is my personal experience. At St. Patrick's I saw lots of drunk folk and fights and hankering for fights. At West Indian, I didn't. I can't and am not trying to speak for the millions at either event, just what was in the range of my vision.

whatchuwant

daver wrote: [quote=Whatchuwant]There is NEVER a problem parking all weekend. All cars must be moved by Monday morning, however. The past few years really haven't been bad at all in terms of people and/or noise. Usually, aside from j'ouvert Sunday at Midnight, all other festivities are confined to the parking lot behind the museum. Where you are, you shouldn't hear a peep from them. Because of j'ouvert Sunday night and the food stands setting up, Sunday night is a little rawkous (sp).

Hmm. My experience last year was different. I found Eastern Parkway around Nostrand to be fucking packed a lot of Monday. The streets were closed several blocks back. I can't imagine not being able to hear a peep from an apartment on Eastern between Nostrand and Rogers, I could hear plenty all the way back to St. Johns. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just saying. Maybe I just happened to be out and about at all the right times. It got less crowded as the day went on, moving towards GAP I suppose. I didn't have a car then, but I did notice people parking pretty solidly back towards Atlantic and then walking up to Eastern all morning.

Re-read my post Daver!
I was talking about from Friday night to Sunday night- the festivities at the Museum- OP shouldn't hear any of that. I'm half a block away and I hardly hear it. As for the parade itself- totally different story.

As for the difference between St. Pats and West Indian- there's more weed at one and more whiskey at the other.

daver

Whatchuwant wrote: As for the difference between St. Pats and West Indian- there's more weed at one and more whiskey at the other.

Hmm, whiskey fights versus weed fights... Perhaps that is the difference I noticed.

brynyc111

We actually tried to stick around one year to see the festivities. Bad idea...although we were not supposed to move our car till 7am the next morning we were woken by police at our door at 3am and asked to move our car. Needless to say there were not many spaces anywhere and the police could not tell us anywhere we might be able to find one. After an hour of driving around till 4am we parked half in a bus stop. Mind you the street was now closed and no buses would be running...none the less we still got a ticket for being half in the bus stop.

We also had to barricade our front stoop and neighbors house to keep people from relieving themselves on our property as there are never any porto-potties for the crowd.

Needless to say we now have a re-occurring date with friends up north for that weekend.

When we return we just hose everything down and read the papers to find out what happened...

But, good luck!! Have fun, stay safe all...

sweet tea

we don't have a car but have always had a great time at the parade (&c.)

not sure about this straight pride bs, but if i'm in town, i'll at least head up to E pkwy and get some eats. mmm....doubles....

drkman

Subject: Re: Eastern Parkway - Labor Day Weekend

adenyce wrote: I recently moved into an apartment on Eastern Parkway and am trying to get a sense of what the area is like during Labor Day weekend. I know the parade takes place on Monday, but are there other activities going on during the weekend on Eastern Parkway. I'd like to invite family to visit on that Saturday, but don't know if the area would be inaccessible by car. Any insight anyone can provide is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

On that Saturday you should have no problems. Sunday night, Monday morning is a different thing as blocks will be blocked off and it is very difficult to navigate during that period.

king without a crown

url="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/09/03/2007-09-

A reveler at the West Indian Day parade was shot twice in the leg, and
three people were taken into custody for questioning, police said.

The 26-year-old man, who was not named, was taken to a hospital in
stable condition after being shot at about 4 p.m. Monday, the 40th
anniversary of the parade.

In previous years, the event has been marred by tragedy. In 1999,
two children died when they were pinned between floats, and hours later
a man was run over by a float and killed. In 2005, a man was shot to
death.

Last year, police had two reports of violence: a man shot in the leg and another person stabbed.

The Brooklyn parade follows a path down Eastern Parkway starting in
the Crown Heights section. It is the final event in several days of
festivities put together by the West Indian-American Day Carnival
Association.

It is one of the largest parades in the city, and it usually runs for several hours.

Politicians, representatives from government and law enforcement
agencies and community groups marched down the parkway Monday along
with hundreds of thousands of parade-goers in wild costumes.

Some floats carried revelers who wore giant swan costumes, while other people wore masks, feathers and elaborate head pieces.

Vendors set up shop along the route, hawking a range of wares, and food stalls sold Caribbean favorites.[/q]

daver

King without a crown wrote: Last year, police had two reports of violence: a man shot in the leg and another person stabbed.

Yup, two reports of violence at an event that draws 3+ million? Doesn't seem too bad to me. Out of curiosity, how many reports of violence are there on say an average Friday or Saturday night in the combined precincts that the parade passes through? More than two? If so (as I suspect,) then would it stand to reason that the parade is safer than being out there on a "regular" night?

king without a crown

daver wrote: [quote=King without a crown]Last year, police had two reports of violence: a man shot in the leg and another person stabbed.

Yup, two reports of violence at an event that draws 3+ million? Doesn't seem too bad to me. Out of curiosity, how many reports of violence are there on say an average Friday or Saturday night in the combined precincts that the parade passes through? More than two? If so (as I suspect,) then would it stand to reason that the parade is safer than being out there on a "regular" night?
Go tell that to the guys that got shot and stabbed.

daver

King without a crown wrote: [quote=daver][quote=King without a crown]Last year, police had two reports of violence: a man shot in the leg and another person stabbed.

Yup, two reports of violence at an event that draws 3+ million? Doesn't seem too bad to me. Out of curiosity, how many reports of violence are there on say an average Friday or Saturday night in the combined precincts that the parade passes through? More than two? If so (as I suspect,) then would it stand to reason that the parade is safer than being out there on a "regular" night?
Go tell that to the guys that got shot and stabbed.
Dude. You _totally_ forgot to answer my question.

Unfortunately crime happens in this neighborhood, city, and world, and we can't just lock ourselves away in a padded room and make it all go away. I haven't read anything so far to make me think this is a particularly dangerous event. In fact, the statement you posted would lead me to believe that it is perhaps safer than the average weekend in these parts. Which doesn't make me glad that anyone got stabbed or shot. I wish no one ever did. But two violent acts for a weekend of over three million people honestly doesn't sound too bad. I've seen much more than that at one night concerts.

jack krohn

C'mon, Daver, your original statement was that the WI parade had less problems than the St. Patrick's parade. KWAC and ParadeRest listed concrete events to prove otherwise and all you have to say is that the WI day parade seemed more mellow to you? Whether you realize it or not, your argument has shifted from WI vs. St.P to "WI parade ain't that bad, all things considered". Yes, there are a lot of drunks at St. Patricks Day, but every year someone gets shot and usually killed at the WI day parade. By any measure, that's worse than "fights and hankering for fights".

daver

Lock yo doors!!!

If I have time tomorrow I will go ahead and pull the crime stats from both, just out of curiosity. My whole point in the first place was based on my personal observations at both events, I thought I had made that clear. But if it is to the stats, then lets get them for both. *shrug* I have no idea how they'll read, but I'll bet you dimes to dollars that a lot of the stuff that happens on St Patricks doesn't end up reported, for obvious reasons. I bet some does though.

I guess you disagree that the West Indian event is mostly peaceful, but I fail to see how two violent acts for the full weekend of the celebration proves that it is horribly dangerous.

king without a crown

Daver, my post was from the Daily News, and it was not my personal opinion on the general safety of the event. Having been to many West Indian Day and Jouvert celebrations these events are far from peaceful. I have fond memories of throngs of people marching over the lifeless body of a promising basketball player with a bullet in his skull a few years back. It was amazing watching thousands of people not skip a beat as they danced down Eastern parkway looking at the lifeless body. As for your assertion that there were only two violent incidents that weekend, you couldn't be any more wrong. There were dozens of gun arrests in the 67,71 and 77 precincts. Jouvert was also marked with numerous shootings. If your argument is that it's relatively safe in reference to the amount of people at the Parade, than well then I guess you have a valid point. As for other events to that magnitude, theres none that I can think of that is consistenly marred by violence.

king without a crown

A Joyous West Indian Parade Ends With Violence

By ANDREA ELLIOTT AND JONATHAN P. HICKS
Published: September 2, 2003
A man was fatally shot while trying to climb aboard a float yesterday at the West Indian American Day Carnival Parade in Brooklyn, while a second person was stabbed just over an hour later on the same block, the police said.

The violence occurred toward the end of a day of festivities, marring what had been an otherwise celebratory event that filled central Brooklyn with food, music and thousands of people in colorful costumes.

The first victim, whom the police were still trying to identify yesterday evening, was trying to climb on the float near 729 Eastern Parkway about 4:40 p.m. when he was shot by a man wearing a mask. The suspect, whom the police had not identified by last night, was on the float when he shot the victim and then fled the scene, the police said.

The shooting victim was taken to Kings County Hospital Center, where he later died, the police said. They said they would try to identify him through his fingerprints.

The second victim was stabbed in the neck just before 6 p.m. within the same block, on Eastern Parkway near Kingston Avenue. The man, whom the police did not identify, was also taken to Kings County Hospital Center, where he was in stable condition early today, the police said.

The police said the incident occurred after a shoving match between the victim and Fransco Sejour, 30, whom they arrested and charged with assault and weapons possession. Mr. Sejour lives in Elizabeth, N.J., the police said.

The violence cast a pall over what has traditionally been a joyous festival that draws millions of people and the city's leading politicians. Indeed, yesterday's attacks happened just hours after Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton marched down Eastern Parkway with other politicians.

The attacks also came four years after three people, including two children, were killed in accidents during the 1999 West Indian Day parade. Two 11-year-olds died when a supply van lurched out of control and pinned them against a sound truck, and four other people were hurt. Hours later, an 18-year-old man was killed when a piece of his clothing got caught in the wheel of a truck and he was dragged underneath.

The next year, organizers and city officials agreed to a number of safety-related changes. Floats were to be modified to give drivers better visibility, and police officers were to be assigned to cars and sound trucks to control spacing between the floats.

The steady drizzle yesterday kept many people away from the parade, which traditionally draws millions to what has become the city's largest such event, outdrawing even the St. Patrick's Day Parade. City officials had no estimate yesterday of how many people attended the festivities.

The violence came at a parade that was dedicated to the memory of James E. Davis, the councilman who was fatally shot in City Hall in July by a onetime political rival.

Mr. Davis, a former police officer, had made a name for himself with his annual ''Stop the Violence'' rallies.

At a breakfast before the parade, the councilman's mother, Thelma, and his brother, Geoffrey, were given a plaque in his honor.

While that created something of a somber tone, the battle to succeed the slain councilman was readily apparent at the parade.

Mr. Davis, who is on the Democratic line to succeed his brother, marched with about a dozen supporters appealing for votes in the Nov. 4 general election. Some of the supporters carried posters with the late councilman's photo and the words ''Re-elect James E. Davis.'' Other posters stated, ''Elect Geoffrey Davis.''

Mr. Davis said the two signs reflected his feeling that he and the late councilman were essentially running together.

''In fact, we're running for City Council,'' he said. ''For the first time he's not here physically, but spiritually he is here.''

Mr. Davis was not the only candidate at the parade hoping to succeed the slain councilman. Marching with an even larger contingent of supporters was Letitia James, an aide to Assemblyman Roger L. Green. Ms. James is running on the Working Families Party line in the Nov. 4 election. Anthony Herbert, who is running in the race on the Republican line, was also marching with supporters

carnivore

KWAC, the problem is that you're focusing on the numerator and ignoring the denominator. The number of the people at the West Indian parade dwarfs any other gathering in the city.

king without a crown

I don't have a mission here, just a statement of facts and my own personal experiences. I'm not trying to deter anyone from going there, I'm sure many of those people you'll see there, will be at the straight pride parade too.

daver

I'm not sure where this tangent got off to, but anyway, just to restate my initial point that apparently caused this whole mess. I didn't intend to say that the West Indian thing was 100% peaceful. Nothing is, with that many people together. My point was that I felt safer there than I did on St. Patrick's. *shrug* Personal opinion, that I suspect could be bourne out through stats in some ways. LIRR suspended alcohol sales last St. Patrick's day, wonder why? Historically there have been any number of brutal fights and yes, killings, on St. Patrick's, which is what has led to the strict enforcement that you see now for it. Hell, was the NYPD's policy requiring off duty officers to carry a firearm not changing in direct response to a cop shooting and killing another cop, drunk on St. Patrick's day?

Anyhow, be careful, of course. I was disagreeing with the statement that the area was "very dangerous" on that weekend, and that people should flee:

joseph11 wrote: The neighborhood gets very dangerous that weekend. Sat and sun night are the warm up partys. Alot of drugs and alot of fights. I recomend heading to the beach 4 the weekend.

There is definitely much pot smoking about. I can't disagree with that. If you are scared, then leave. I was just trying to say that if you don't fear partying out and about on St. Patrick's day, the West Indian thing probably isn't too dangerous for you either. Having said that, shit happens. And don't walk in front of any buses, literally or figuratively.

paraderest

LIRR also suspends alcohol for the Belmont Stakes. I've never really heard about much violence at the Stakes.

daver

ParadeRest wrote: LIRR also suspends alcohol for the Belmont Stakes. I've never really heard about much violence at the Stakes.

I'm fairly certain that there is nothing I can say that will convince you that there are in fact drunken violent acts that occur on St. Patrick's day, so I won't bother arguing it further. Interestingly, the MTA used the Belmont argument to try and counter that they discriminate against the Irish:

Elected officials, police officers, and bartenders at Irish pubs are among those who are livid over a St. Patrick's Day liquor ban on New York's commuter railroads, calling the move a gross act of stereotyping and discrimination.

Anticipating an inebriated crowd commuting into and out of Manhattan to celebrate the holiday along the parade route Saturday, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's two commuter railroads, the Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North Railroad, are banning alcohol from their property that day and into early Sunday, making the Roman Catholic feast day the sole religious holiday when bar cars are closed for business and stations and trains run dry.

"It definitely looks like stereotyping, and that's what the MTA should be faulted for," state Senator Martin Golden, a Republican of Brooklyn who is Irish, said. "Some people do get out of control, but to focus on that day, and on certain segments of the population like that, is totally wrongheaded."

Mr. Golden said the MTA should lift what he dubbed a discriminatory liquor ban that assumes Irish revelers are more out of control than other groups when celebrating their holidays.

"We want to maintain orderly travel," a spokeswoman for the Long Island Rail Road, Susan McGowan, said. "It's a day when we have more ridership than usual, and when there can be disruptions related to alcohol." Both commuter rail lines also ban alcohol from their property on New Year's Eve, and the Long Island Rail Road also prohibits alcohol on trains and in stations in anticipation of the annual Belmont Stakes horse race.

"It's not fair that on other holidays they don't ban alcohol if they do it on St. Patrick's Day," Don Rogers, a vice president of a large New York Police Department Irish fraternal organization, the Emerald Society, said. Mr. Rogers also noted that the New York Police Department steps up enforcement of rules prohibiting drinking outside during the St. Patrick's Day parade — rules it is more likely to overlook for other parades, such as the Hispanic Day and Gay Pride parades. "Those laws should be enforced all the time, not just in this parade," Mr. Rogers said.

NY Sun - Ban of Liquor on St. Patrick's Riles Railroad Commuters

But I'm _certain_ that they don't specifically step up enforcement for any particular reason. It couldn't be because of any problems that they've ever had, I'm sure that the stepped up enforcement is just because of how much the city continues to hate on the Irish. </sarchasm>

paraderest

They step up enforcement because the white guy is an easy target for the NYPD to increase summons activity. Enforement at other large gatherings is made difficult by the participants being confrontational and, well, violent. They all want to fight at the "WIDP" instead of admitting that they are in the wrong. These enforcement attempts turn into near riots and thus "not worth it". The drunk guy on St. Patrick's Day will just take his summons and go on his way (or get dragged home by his friends).