This annoyed me

jeffrey

Teach them to make their own Oreos, on the other hand, and you can malnourish them for a lifetime.

daver

jeffrey wrote: Teach them to make their own Oreos, on the other hand, and you can malnourish them for a lifetime.

Or you can watch Good Morning America, where they will teach you to deep fry them.

That make them healthier, right?

All things in moderation though.

pumpkineater

As others have said, I think it is easy to pass judgment when you haven't been there yourself. I have been there, so maybe I can offer some perspective. My family was on public assistance and food stamps for a time (a few years) when I was a child. My dad was only working sporadically.

I hear the arguments about people who are on PA and yet have nice cars, cable, acrylics, etc. And I get it. It seems like a scam. And, hell, maybe they are scamming. Some are. Some are, but not in the way you think. And, others aren't scamming, but simply make stupid financial decisions.

There are those who truly scam the system. That is, those who don't need assistance, but fake out the government so that they qualify. I have nothing to say in defense of these people.

Then there are those who scam out of necessity. How, you say? A very famous law professor at the University of Texas at Austin says that when she was putting herself through Harvard and later Harvard Law School, she scammed the system. She accepted welfare while cleaning houses "off the books." She did this because PA wasn't enough and she grew tired of feeding her children saltines with ketchup for the third night in a row. (Remember when Pres. Reagan deemed ketchup a vegetable?)

Then there are those that are financial morons (e.g. my family). That is, those who appear to be scamming because they buy things they can't afford and/or lease items that are beyond their means. My parents made many foolish financial decisions when we were on PA. In their defense, my parents weren't educated or financially sophisticated people. (Hell, they were just two teens trying to figure it out.) But, I think back on it now as an adult and it is shocking. They bought things when the food stamps were gone for the month and all we had was a can of green beans in the cabinet. Stupid? Absolutely. We had cable TV even though food was scarce. We had new furniture, appliances, TVs, W/D thanks to those rent-to-own type places. And we ate many, many meals at McDonalds or other junk food. (Often because it's what we asked for, but more often because it was cheaper than trying to buy anything healthy when all you have left is $20 in food stamps.) All unwise financial decisions to be sure. But when you're poor, and I mean *that* poor, you really just want to feel normal. And sometimes you make unwise financial decisions as a result. And, when I was growing up, normal included cable TV, new furniture, snacks and McDonalds. I would say that being able to buy a pack of mini-Oreos and a Sunny D is included in that definition.

I do truly understand the frustration in seeing what you believe is a scam. I felt it too when I lived in the Midwest, and I feel it now when I see it here in NY. But, what I mostly feel is sad. I feel sad because in 2008, a family of three in the state of NY receives $200/monthly in public assistance, a family of four, $231/monthly. That doesn't go very far. I bought groceries this weekend for *one* freshly prepared meal and I spent $150. Seriously, try buying a months worth of healthy groceries on public assistance. It's nearly impossible.

See this link. http://www.hungeractionnys.org/welgrant.pdf

daver

PumpkinEater wrote: All unwise financial decisions to be sure. But when you're poor, and I mean *that* poor, you really just want to feel normal. And sometimes you make unwise financial decisions as a result. And, when I was growing up, normal included cable TV, new furniture, snacks and McDonalds. I would say that being able to buy a pack of mini-Oreos and a Sunny D is included in that definition.

See, and I _understand_ that, but I don't want to _subsidize_ it. Which is a bit tricky. I don't have cable TV, new furniture, etc. Why should my tax dollars go to pay for someone else's? While at the same time, I'm good with helping people out.

PumpkinEater wrote: I do truly understand the frustration in seeing what you believe is a scam. I felt it too when I lived in the Midwest, and I feel it now when I see it here in NY. But, what I mostly feel is sad. I feel sad because in 2008, a family of three in the state of NY receives $200/monthly in public assistance, a family of four, $231/monthly. That doesn't go very far. I bought groceries this weekend for *one* freshly prepared meal and I spent $150. Seriously, try buying a months worth of healthy groceries on public assistance. It's nearly impossible.

Eh. If you are poor and spend $150 on ONE meal, then I find it hard to feel sorry for ya. You're doing it wrong. As a father of four, I can say that we eat reasonably decent and definitely do NOT spend $150 per meal. *shrug* Let them eat Pumpkins!

I *might* have spent that much on Thanksgiving, but that feast fed us the entire next week.

carmen

daver wrote: [quote=PumpkinEater]All unwise financial decisions to be sure. But when you're poor, and I mean *that* poor, you really just want to feel normal. And sometimes you make unwise financial decisions as a result. And, when I was growing up, normal included cable TV, new furniture, snacks and McDonalds. I would say that being able to buy a pack of mini-Oreos and a Sunny D is included in that definition.

See, and I _understand_ that, but I don't want to _subsidize_ it. Which is a bit tricky. I don't have cable TV, new furniture, etc. Why should my tax dollars go to pay for someone else's? While at the same time, I'm good with helping people out.



+1! People being down on their luck is one thing, but individuals who seem to lack the ability to learn how to handle finances shouldn't just be thrown govt assistance checks. Give a man a fish/teach a man to fish applies here... we as a country have a SERIOUS problem when it comes to personal finance education AND responsibility. As an example of how poorly educated many people are:
I was a senior in college not long ago (getting farther, sadly, but within the last 5 years) and I decided to take the ONLY personal finance class offered by my college as an elective and in hopes of learning more about purchasing a home. The class was filled almost exclusively with upperclassmen, many who were graduating that semester. The professor did a little informal anonymous poll the first day of class to demonstrate people's lack of knowledge in finance. Almost 50% of the class had never filed their own taxes (many of whom had worked but paid to file or had their parents do it.) Almost 30% didnt even know what a W2 was. Almost no one knew what a universal default clause as on a credit card. Many (well over half) had $4k or more in CC debt unrelated to school and many had car loans. Almost no one had ever checked their own credit. This was a good college full of the "leaders of tomorrow" with a good cross-section of different majors/GPAs etc. This is a huge problem and it lays the foundation for unsuccessful financial planning for LIFE.

pumpkineater

Daver, I agree. I don't want to subsidize it either. And, you're right, it is tricky. I don't know what the solution is. Sometimes, I wish that the government could have said to my parents, um, no, you can't buy cable because you can barely pay the electric bill. Or no you don't need that $20/week rent-to-own couch because it's wasteful and you can't afford it. My parents had credit problems for years (way after our PA years) because of stupid shit like that. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your viewpoint), we don't live in a country that permits this level of government involvement in individuals' lives.

And about my $150 for one meal comment... I was just making the point that groceries are freakin' expensive. I was shocked about the total. But fresh meat, fresh produce, fresh herbs, etc. -- it all added up. I, thankfully, can afford that *now*, but I honestly don't know how poorer families do it. (Maybe they should eat pumpkins!!! )

Also, please forgive my Brooklynian ignorance, I haven't quite learned how to quote other posters yet.

carmen

^just hit the little "quote" button on the top right of the post you want to use, it'll make a new message and you can delete or add what you'd like.

I appreciate what you're saying about expensive groceries- I made a salad the other night thinking it would be cheaper and it was almost $35 after getting all the veggies and some chicken boobies! However, when my family was broker than broke we ate lots of pasta and always cooked in bulk- my mom made spaghetti sauce by the gallon and froze it, stews were frozen, meatballs were frozen...we very very rarely ate out and we usually had a pretty balanced meal (probably too many carbs, but we ate lots of veggies and fruits too.)

daver

PumpkinEater wrote: And about my $150 for one meal comment... I was just making the point that groceries are freakin' expensive. I was shocked about the total. But fresh meat, fresh produce, fresh herbs, etc. -- it all added up. I, thankfully, can afford that *now*, but I honestly don't know how poorer families do it. (Maybe they should eat pumpkins!!! )

You gots meat!?!? I am _so_ over at your house!

Rice, beans, get the fruits and veggies that are on sale. Often getting overdone, but if you get them and eat them the same day, you are good. And guess what? If you are poor, you don't get to eat every meat and veggie that you would like to have every day. Ya look for sales and wait for things to be in season. Sometimes you don't even get the fresh veggies. When the Met puts canned corn on sale three fer a dollar, my cupboard fills!

deathscythe257

daver wrote: [quote=PumpkinEater]And about my $150 for one meal comment... I was just making the point that groceries are freakin' expensive. I was shocked about the total. But fresh meat, fresh produce, fresh herbs, etc. -- it all added up. I, thankfully, can afford that *now*, but I honestly don't know how poorer families do it. (Maybe they should eat pumpkins!!! )

You gots meat!?!? I am _so_ over at your house!

Rice, beans, get the fruits and veggies that are on sale. Often getting overdone, but if you get them and eat them the same day, you are good. And guess what? If you are poor, you don't get to eat every meat and veggie that you would like to have every day. Ya look for sales and wait for things to be in season. Sometimes you don't even get the fresh veggies. When the Met puts canned corn on sale three fer a dollar, my cupboard fills!

THIS.

All sorts of this.

jeffrey

daver wrote: When the Met puts canned corn on sale three fer a dollar, my cupboard fills!

daver, I believe you have single-handedly redefined the term "kernel panic."

(in a good way, tho...)

underhill_mt

modsquad wrote: You'd have to pry Fig Newtons from my cold dead hand.

Neeeewwwwtons! Oh man, I want some. Like, NOW! In fact, I think I'm going to go hit the bodega. I'll grab some coin from my change jar.

em26

I was having a sweet craving too. I ended up at the Associated at 15 minutes to closing time with the intention of just buying a candy bar (Take5 feen here) , and ended up walking out of there with two packages of ice cream , and a Cadbury chocolate fruit and nut bar. Ha! There goes my "diet". I was doing good all week too. I just wanted one thing and now I am stuck all week with a box of sundae cones(my fav) and chocolate fudge bars sitting in my freezer trying to seduce me everytime I walk by.

:help:

sweet tea

pumpkin eater, thank you. that was great.

bottom line, we as a society are smart to pay for food stamps, even for people who make foolish money decisions (which non-poor people do all the time, too, btw), because the mental and physical damage done by childhood malnutrition is just too expensive. even sunny d and oreos are better for kids than starvation. plenty of cheap calories there. absolutely there are better ways to feed children, but short of taking away the children of people who make poor decisions, i'm not sure what can be done at a macro-level.

as for adults, what's the difference in price between a year of food stamps for someone who spends too much money on fancy sneakers compared with a year in prison for someone who spends all their money on food and steals the sneaker money, i wonder?

i'm not saying those gaming the system aren't wrong to do so, only that we might be better off paying for their food than not.

eggcream

homeowner wrote: [
Rather than railing about how screwed up they are, why not ask how it is that our government allows poor people to spend money on candy and soda rather than fruits and vegetables. Ask why the only place you can buy single cigarettes is in the ghetto. Ask why its easy to find liquor but hard to find a NY Times.

Instead of just being angry and frustrated, why not try to figure out how to stop it from happening.

Please. It's not the governments job to dictate how and what we eat, except for Bloomberg of course. Who cares if you can buy "single cigarettes" in the ghetto. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads. What the heck does finding liquor over the NY Times have to do with anything. If the times was readily available you think anybody would pick that if they wanted to buy liquor? You think the Times is some sort of saviour? You're living in a liberal bubble. They probably can't find the times because their stock is tanking and subscribers have dropped off but I digress...

vidro3

you don't get to decide a la carte which programs your tax dollars subsidize.

If that were the case I would not be paying for the Iraq war. And muslim citizens could avoid paying down part of the national debt since it is against their religion to pay interest on a loan. (or so i have been told.)

Buy a metrocard recently? I bet there was a discount on it. And maybe you even got a transit check so you bought the card with tax free income. Well maybe I don't want my tax dollars subsidizing your transportation costs.

And what about all these students that get free metrocards? Why do I have to subsidize their transportation when they could easily take their bikes and get some exercise? And those greedy senior citizens who are probably collecting social security get their medical bills paid by medicare AND get discounted subway rides; how is that fair? You suddenly hit a certain age and you and suddenly you don't have to pay full price? And then they have the gall to want a seat too! Sorry pops I paid twice as much as you. Stand.

why should my tax dollars go to benefit someone else who isn't even me? and who might scam the system and/or make foolish decisions with that money.

It just ain't fair I tells ya, it ain't fair!

jah

Wow. I am speechless. SMH.

carmen

what is smh?

jack krohn

I don't think the "save the starving children" argument works well here. This woman was an adult who clearly had enough money to buy gold jewelry and get her nails done in fine style. Plus, she was buying garbage food. Most "poor" families have large extended networks of friends, neighbors, and relatives more than willing to lend a hand by feeding others during difficult times. In some cases, food stamps free up money ultimately spent on non-necessities (i.e. jewelry and acrylic nails). I'm all for helping genuinely needy folks, but this woman sounds like she does not fall into such a category.

jah

Carmen wrote: what is smh?

shaking my head

bknest

I just want to alert some of you that just because this young lady had a food stamp card, doesn't mean she does not work. Ppl with low incomes jobs are eligible for food stamps. So its possible this person had their nails & hair done with their hard earned money. If someone works at a fast food chain or retail, has to pay rent plus utilities, pay for child care, etc., then they are eligible for food stamps. As far what she bought for the child...if milk was replaced with the drink then its basically a bowl of cereal. How many kids eating cookie crisp, fruity pebbles and frosted flakes in the morning are actually eating it w/ a balanced breakfast like commercials suggest?!

jah

Subject: Re: This annoyed me

Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: So I'm down at the local bodega for a pint of ice cream (I'm sick, damnit! I NEED IT!) and the girl (teenaged, I'd say) in front of me with the perfectly manicured acrylic nails, the numerous earrings in her ears and enough gold around her neck to make Mr. T jealous is buying two Sunny Delights and one of those cans of mini Oreos - WITH HER FOOD STAMP CARD! Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking public assistance for people who need it but A) where is this bitch getting the money for nails and jewelry but she can't buy food? and B ) I thought those cards were to be used to buy actual food - not shitty snacks? Am I wrong??

UHM....is this you?