I see white people

ar

AR wrote: Gotta go with Stacey on this one.

Ditto, and I'd also wish that the community would pick up their litter/garbage.

Did we talk about people not picking up dogshit? People cleaning up in front of their homes? About the piles of garbage in backyards? The guy sellin' out of the back of his van 24/7? No. Nope. Uh-uh. Nah

Amen!

There are 10 piles of dog crap on St. John's today alone, I own a dog , I clean up after him, simple. I like the neighborhood, but come on people! I can't believe that it was some sort of magical uptopia here until some people of another color moved in. Check out the gang related grafitti on New York and Lincoln.

Ok, Jayce
as for white people " invading or gentrifing" the neighborhood, I shop in the neighborhood for everything I can, hardware, groceries, restuarants,etc.
I put all my money back into the neighborhood, I'm not trying to change it, just be a part of it.
I don't want a Starbucks, I don't want an Ikea, I want to have a safe, clean neighborhood. I'm not rich, I'm not taking over anyone's neighborhood, because now it's also my neighborhood.

kate

I'm with AR. I go to the corner bodega before I go anywhere else, I got vanilla extract there the other day, who knew. I'll walk down Franklin to see what I can get before I head over to Park Slope or wherever else. I also want to be a part of the neighborhood but I do see people who don't share that feeling in my building and they give off that sense of 'invading'.

jayce

AR wrote:
Ok, Jayce
as for white people " invading or gentrifing" the neighborhood, I shop in the neighborhood for everything I can, hardware, groceries, restuarants,etc.
I put all my money back into the neighborhood, I'm not trying to change it, just be a part of it.
I don't want a Starbucks, I don't want an Ikea, I want to have a safe, clean neighborhood. I'm not rich, I'm not taking over anyone's neighborhood, because now it's also my neighborhood.

I'm pretty sure I didn't single you out, AR. And I think Kate in her comment also makes the same point. Not every white face is an invader. But there are alot that are.

When I walk down the street, I like to say hello to people. Especially in the mornings. i'm all about telling people "good morning." when I'm coming back from the gym, it makes the day go nicer. The majority of the folks who can't be bothered to say it back are the white folks. They don't make eye contact with anyone. No smiles. No nothing. They keep to themselves. Thats what I mean about not becoming a part of a community. Say Hello to your neighbors for godsake!

Again, not singling anyone out here... AR I am pretty sure we haven't met. But try it. And see the responses you get. You'll get a sense right quick with what I mean.

kate

jayce wrote: The majority of the folks who can't be bothered to say it back are the white folks. They don't make eye contact with anyone. No smiles. No nothing. They keep to themselves. Thats what I mean about not becoming a part of a community. Say Hello to your neighbors for godsake!

Again, not singling anyone out here... AR I am pretty sure we haven't met. But try it. And see the responses you get. You'll get a sense right quick with what I mean.

Unfortunately I have experienced the same in my smiling and friendly neighbor routine, it use to really piss me off but I'm over it now.

Having met AR, I just wanted to say that he seems like the kind of person who would say good morning to his neigbors and all that jazz.

carnivore

jayce wrote: When I walk down the street, I like to say hello to people. Especially in the mornings. i'm all about telling people "good morning." when I'm coming back from the gym, it makes the day go nicer. The majority of the folks who can't be bothered to say it back are the white folks. They don't make eye contact with anyone. No smiles. No nothing. They keep to themselves. Thats what I mean about not becoming a part of a community. Say Hello to your neighbors for godsake!

Again, not singling anyone out here... AR I am pretty sure we haven't met. But try it. And see the responses you get. You'll get a sense right quick with what I mean.

We actually talked about this approach extensively on the PH board this past summer:

http://dailyheights.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=586

You might want to read it before skipping around the neighborhood handing out cookies. :P

jayce

Carnivore wrote:
We actually talked about this approach extensively on the PH board this past summer:

http://dailyheights.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=586

You might want to read it before skipping around the neighborhood handing out cookies. :P

I'm totally a cookies kind of girl. And I remember reading that post a long time ago. And in many ways, it sounds like people agree with my comment... the majority of the folks that don't say hello are the white folks. of course it makes people feel like they are invaders.

it reminds me of a very funny story from a few years back. I went with my girlfriend at the time back to her home in Arkansas. We were riding down a dirt road on a 4-wheeler (the best way to get around in the back woods of Arkansas, to say the least) and we saw this guy walking up the road with a shotgun dressed in coveralls. Now where I come from, you see a guy walking up the road with a shotgun, you turn right the hell around and go the other way. (especially if its Dick Cheney). Instead, we drove right up to him (my gf was at the wheel) and stopped to say hello. I about near threw up. And when I asked her about it later she said she didn't know him, but that when you go home, you just stop and talk to people because about the worst thing that could happen is for it to get back to people that you've moved off and gotten "uppity."

I guess in a way it reminds me of here. You stop and say hello to your neighbors, otherwise you look uppity and too good for the people you are living around. the folks who can't be bothered to interact with their neighbors give that feel of trying to make the neighborhood something "above" what it is right now. The neighborhood is great the way it is right now. So don't be above it. Engage in it. Say hello and get to know people.

ar

Jayce,
We have met, and I know you weren't picking on me or anyone
I didn't mean to seem like I was doing the same to you. :oops:
I guess that guest post really pissed me off, I'm really friendly whenever I have the chance with all my neighbors, black, white, or purple. I'm happy in CH so far, my neighbors are happy I'm here, the guys at my bodega like me, I'm friendly and don't hassle them like 90% of the other people on Nostrand do. I think that in the short time I've been here I'm just tired out hearing about how white people are devils. I didn't mean to single you out at all, but like I said earlier, to that guest post, don't pretend this 'hood was perfect until a few white people moved in. That's my point to all this, why can't we just strive to make the neighborhood better for EVERYONE here.

jayce

AR wrote: Jayce,
We have met, and I know you weren't picking on me or anyone
I didn't mean to seem like I was doing the same to you. :oops:
I guess that guest post really pissed me off, I'm really friendly whenever I have the chance with all my neighbors, black, white, or purple. I'm happy in CH so far, my neighbors are happy I'm here, the guys at my bodega like me, I'm friendly and don't hassle them like 90% of the other people on Nostrand do. I think that in the short time I've been here I'm just tired out hearing about how white people are devils. I didn't mean to single you out at all, but like I said earlier, to that guest post, don't pretend this 'hood was perfect until a few white people moved in. That's my point to all this, why can't we just strive to make the neighborhood better for EVERYONE here.

now you make me wonder when we met. this weekend, perhaps?

anyway, my reason for jumping in here was that i don't think that the guest was saying "whitey is the devil." i think she was just lamenting how hard it is to watch your neighborhood change. its an age-old New York story. You go back through the stories of NY and everyone talks about NY never being the same as the NY of their childhood. And its true. And its sad. I think the guest was just expressing that, and I think as such we ought to have some empathy for that. I don't think he/she was attacking anyone at all. But I do think that as people who come into a neighborhood we do have to have some understanding and compassion towards that feeling. And to honor that. I really don't see that he/she meant offense at all. I think many of us long for that sense of home and to see it change is hard. NY does that faster than any place I have ever seen.

so i guess my point was to say 'yeah, i can see that. and in my own experiences, i have seen that. and it sucks.' and at the same time try to incite other people to just accept that people will view that encroachment hostily, but its not a personal attack so much as it is grief.

thats all. i feel for that.

jayce

AR wrote: I didn't mean to seem like I was doing the same to you. :oops:

i didnt think you were at all. i am really hard to offend. i just like a good debate. its fun.

ar

I understand your point, I just feel that sometimes neighborhoods can change for the better without being taken over. There's lots of crime here, there has been for a long while, my neighbors, (not white, if that even matters?) would rather see any color of person next to them that cares about the general welfare of the neighborhood. They are aren't threatened or resentful in any way, they WANT to see the 'hood change. My neighbor behind me just yesterday asked me if I had any friends that wanted to rent the apt. below him. I don't really feel empathy for that guest post to me it sounded like " I don't want you moving here, so I'm resentful." Sorry, that's just how I interpreted it. :?
Ps ..
At the Anti - VD party

jack krohn

Has Crown Heights really changed that much in terms of racial makeup? Whenever I'm there, it doesn't seem to have changed much in the past decade or so, meaning that the majority of residents are African-American or Caribbean.

anonymous

"When I walk down the street, I like to say hello to people. Especially in the mornings. i'm all about telling people "good morning." when I'm coming back from the gym, it makes the day go nicer. The majority of the folks who can't be bothered to say it back are the white folks. They don't make eye contact with anyone. No smiles. No nothing. They keep to themselves. Thats what I mean about not becoming a part of a community. Say Hello to your neighbors for godsake! "

Hi I am a white girl who just moved to st johns by franklin ,and we love this neighborhood. In the past month we have lived here we also have already noticed an increase in the caucasian faces around us on the streets and at the franklin stop . i know we moved here because it was affordable and we felt comfortable here . of course i cant speak for anyone else . as far as the not saying hello thing , i know that comment wasnt meant to offend anyone , but speaking for myself and my roommates , i know we make every effort possible to say hello and be friendly to our neighbors , we want our neighbors , and people we pass on the street to recognize us and be comfortable with us in the neighborhood and know that we're not theyre to gentrify it , or change it for the worse , (sure it would be great if theyre was a place to grab coffee on the way to the subway , but now it seems like theres a tea/muffin shop going in the old hardware store, so im all set )anyhow , my point is i know speaking for myself I always make eye contact and i know that on a few occasions i have said hello to people while sitting on my stoop and been ignored or shot confused glances, but generally our neighborhood has been very friendly and welcoming . I have also always felt very safe and I can understand people not wanting a close knit neighborhood to be torn apart by new people and new ideas , but I can assure you we respect that and would definitely be interested in helping out with any kind of neighborhood cleanup project , ( as someone else previously stated there is dog waste and garbage all over st john ) and we have a dog as well so we definitely have an affinity to that cause . i guess i just wanted to say that not all white kids want to build box stores in your front yard , or put in stupid hipster clubs , or kick out your grandma to get a cool condo , some of us just want a nice friendly quiet neighborhood with reasonable rent ; and yes it sucks that by us moving here it might raise rents up , and im sorry , but it happens to us too , you know, most landlords think a apartment full of white kids means he can double the rent when leases come up, its just sucky all the way around . sorry i rambled. thanks.

ar

Thank you and Ditto.
By the way, I just spoke to another white couple the other day that I have seen a couple times and never spoken to, and it came up in conversation that there is a "stigma" that is created by some people who live in this area that if white people are exicited to see other white people they are closed minded. Maybe that's part of it, we have been programmed to be scared of our own PC' ness enough not to acknowledge one another ?

davidas

I just joined this site. I recently moved to Crown Heights in October 2005. I am black/native american. Before moving here, I lived on and off in Clinton Hill for close to 18 years and saw the huge changes that took place in that neighborhood. I liked it to a point, but I had to leave because it got to be less diverse with each year. I have nothing against white people. My daughter is half white. My only gripe is that it lost a lot of the eccentricity that I always loved about Clinton Hill/Fort Greene. So I sold my apt and bought bigger place in Crown Heights. I miss my bagel store and and coffee house and all the restaurants I used to eat at, but I am happy to be in my place because it's bigger and I am near the Brooklyn Museum (I live on Eastern Parkway). My gripes about living here are that no one cleans up after themselves, especially picking up after their dogs. I have a small dog and clean up her poop no matter how small it is (sorry to get graphic!). Its such a great area that its sad to see that some of the residents don't care to take the time to look after it. This shows me (and reminds of the residents that got priced out of Clinton Hill) that they have no idea about creating a community and keeping a clean one at that. And its only a matter if time before these residents get shut out of the area to let the white folks in. It's going to turn into a Clinton Hill in a matter of years. Its a great area and these pre-war buildings are so spacious that people who are getting priced out of Manhattan and other high-end areas in Brooklyn are going to move here. I'm a little saddned by this, but if it means getting the litter off the streets, getting the poop to disappear and having people taking an avid interest in their living conditions, then I'm all for it. I just wish these neighborhoods could be more diverse to represent exactly what New York is all about. That's my two cents. I look forward to participating more in this forum and on other topics.

nybt wrote: [quote=AR]Gotta go with Stacey on this one.

Ditto, and I'd also wish that the community would pick up their litter/garbage.

Did we talk about people not picking up dogshit? People cleaning up in front of their homes? About the piles of garbage in backyards? The guy sellin' out of the back of his van 24/7? No. Nope. Uh-uh. Nah

Amen!

There are 10 piles of dog crap on St. John's today alone, I own a dog , I clean up after him, simple. I like the neighborhood, but come on people! I can't believe that it was some sort of magical uptopia here until some people of another color moved in. Check out the gang related grafitti on New York and Lincoln.

Ok, Jayce
as for white people " invading or gentrifing" the neighborhood, I shop in the neighborhood for everything I can, hardware, groceries, restuarants,etc.
I put all my money back into the neighborhood, I'm not trying to change it, just be a part of it.
I don't want a Starbucks, I don't want an Ikea, I want to have a safe, clean neighborhood. I'm not rich, I'm not taking over anyone's neighborhood, because now it's also my neighborhood.

ar

Welcome to the board Davidas.

davidas

Thanks. Look forward to meeting my new neighbors!

anonymous

Subject: Re: crackers

I just sent the "knitting in CH" post...oops

white knitter in CH

white mom wrote: listen, seeing white people is one thing, but make sure they don't come in with any knitting stores or organic co-ops. because then it's park slope all over again and that shit ain't right.

blksafyre

jayce wrote: [quote=AR]
Ok, Jayce
as for white people " invading or gentrifing" the neighborhood, I shop in the neighborhood for everything I can, hardware, groceries, restuarants,etc.
I put all my money back into the neighborhood, I'm not trying to change it, just be a part of it.
I don't want a Starbucks, I don't want an Ikea, I want to have a safe, clean neighborhood. I'm not rich, I'm not taking over anyone's neighborhood, because now it's also my neighborhood.

I'm pretty sure I didn't single you out, AR. And I think Kate in her comment also makes the same point. Not every white face is an invader. But there are alot that are.

When I walk down the street, I like to say hello to people. Especially in the mornings. i'm all about telling people "good morning." when I'm coming back from the gym, it makes the day go nicer. The majority of the folks who can't be bothered to say it back are the white folks. They don't make eye contact with anyone. No smiles. No nothing. They keep to themselves. Thats what I mean about not becoming a part of a community. Say Hello to your neighbors for godsake!

Again, not singling anyone out here... AR I am pretty sure we haven't met. But try it. And see the responses you get. You'll get a sense right quick with what I mean.



My block recently has taken in a lot of Russians (President and Nostrand) but I have to say they have fit right in with everyone else. Their kids play with the kids who live on the block. Everyone talks to one another even if it is just to say morning or enjoy your day. But sometimes I feel that this only happens on my block. The blocks on either side of us (Union and Carroll are a little cold.

bleek

Hey,

I live in Crown Heights and have been since I was born. And yes, I can agree that I've been seeing many Caucasians in the area, much more now than ever, specifically on Dean Street with the Brownstones, etc.

BTW, I live on New York Ave. and Bergen St.

anonymous

Subject: don't forget the Children's Museum!

I think many of you are forgetting that the reason you may be seeing more white people with strollers is that there are 2 very popular childrens museums in CH... parents will drag their kids on the subways if it means finding something to entertain them.

My husband and I recently got an accepted offer on a beautiful house in CH and while trolling for information on the neighborhood, I came across this message board. I had to sigh. As a mixed race couple (he's black, I'm as white as it gets) with a year-old baby living in Harlem, we deal with all the issues you guys have been talking about all the time. I've been called "tresspasser" and worse, gotten dirty looks every time I've left my apartment. My favorite is when 2 black people pass me and say sh*t ABOUT me to each other without actually having the courage to say it to my face. I have been an activist for all of my adult life, working towards a change towards equality and justice for ALL humans. It hurts me to my heart when people make snap judgements about me based on the color (or lach thereof) of my skin. I want nothing more than for my mixed-race son to grow up around people of all backgrounds, learning a sense of responsibility to his community (and ALL people in EVERY community in the world). My first choice for a home would be in Jackson Heights, Queens because no one but the dozen Archie Bunker types left there give a damn that the neightborhood has changed to be the most DIVERSE in the world... it's a beautiful mix of people. Unfortunately, the houses are crap there.

What I would like to remind every single one of you is that you should keep this all in perspective. Black people did not create Crown Heights (or Harlem, for that matter)... in fact, even 100 years ago, it was mostly white. I did my senior thesis on the gentrification of the Lower East Side and I think that if you read up on the subject, you would be surprised how counter-intuitive the process actually is. The demographics of a neighborhood are constantly in-flux and are more dependent on national economics than anything else. If you really want someone to blame for the current environment of greed and selfishness, I think George Bush is as good as anyone. He has a hell of a lot more power than some middle class white mom down the block.

When we move to CH, you will see a lot of me and my family... we will be at every community board meeting, every block party and neighborhood function because we want to be active in the community and get to know our neighbors. This will be our new family home where we hope to plant roots for future generations. And if you have children, I hope we can get together for playdates. In the meantime, if you want to fight the powers that be, I suggest you first identify them correctly.

brooklynboy3

Subject: I'm a white guy...

Want to rent me to go down your street?

10.00 per day

with a white woman, 15 per day

with an Asian, 20.00 per day

Kids are extra.

white kids are really extra.

H

capt. planet

Subject: Re: don't forget the Children's Museum!

Meeshka wrote:

My husband and I recently got an accepted offer on a beautiful house in CH and while trolling for information on the neighborhood, I came across this message board.

Hey, weclome to the 'hood.
Where are you moving to? What block?

faithful

Hey...I live on Bergen Street and would love for our children to play together. I'm all for diversity.

sweet tea

just fyi -- meeshka's post is from 2 years ago.

faithful

Duh!!! Thanks for pointing that out. Just in case she's still around my kids are four now, if she's interested. LOL