Ludicrous lawsuit against Bruce Ratner

candicissima

Jack Krohn wrote: Though he tries to downplay it, Dan is the main force behind the opposition. On this board, he posts under his own name, the name Ratnerville, and now under Ratnerville4ever. This makes the opposition appear broader and stronger than it actually is.

Talk about being paranoid, Jack. As a person who can actually see IPs, I can tell you that littke "fact" isn't even true.

communitybuilder

Every time there is a public event, attendance is often below 75 people. Even the fundraiser held several months back attracted only 400 or so people.

Jack, I've had the opposite impression. The crowds at these public events have been mostly been quite impressive. At the DEIS scoping hearing about 800 people showed up. Not all were project opponents but many presented strong concerns. I've been to a few DEIS's and I'd never seen anything like this turnout and the thought and care that went into presentations.

We just had a weeknight community forum in the Slope that drew about 200 people. If you've done any local activism then you realize that this is a phenomenal turn-out.

Jack, I'm noticing that you are very focused on things like how many email aliases does Dan Goldstein have, the size of the opposition, and this stuff that really doesn't have much to do with the issues at hand.

I really urge you to go to a community forum and just get information about the project that is being proposed here. The more you learn, the harder it is not to be profoundly concerned with what is being proposed and the way it is being pushed through.

Even if you support Ratner's first draft of the project and don't think it should be changed a bit, I think you can still have questions about $100M in city subsidies for a project that the city has no oversight or input on, not to mention the incredible amount of other subsidies and tax breaks that are being given. You can still be concerned about 2/3 of the project's footprint being on top of other people's private property. You can still be concerned about the lousy, destructive urban design and the failure to accomodate and include legitimate community input from long-standing community organizations.

So, why not engage on the issues, Jack? Continuing to try to belittle the community opponents and people with concerns about the project isn't useful. It's Fox News-style dialogue. It sounds like you're just repeating some kind of Joey DePlasco talking point or something (This month's communications strategy: Downplay the size of the opposition. Call them yuppies and trust fund kids). I mean come on. This is a massive development. It deserves real debate. You're just helping it get a rubber stamp with your rhetoric.

communitybuilder

Sorry to go on: But also this idea that blogs linking to each other is somehow nefarious or dishonest -- Erroll Louis seems like a smart guy but he clearly has a profound misunderstanding of how the Internet actually works. This is what people do on the web: They link to each other.

And this idea that because four or five regularly updated and very well-maintained sites link to each other is "proof" that the anti-Atlantic Yards opposition is small also makes no sense. Try to find any other development project in the US that has ever had this many web sites chasing after it on a daily basis. You know how they say there are at usually one hundred "lurkers" on a message board for every one that actually bothers to post a message? Likewise, there has to be at least 1,000 community members who are concerned about the Atlantic Yards Project for every one who starts a blog about it. However you want to figure it, I think you're really stretching to say that all of these well done web sites are somehow a sign of a lack of opposition or concern in the community.

Finally, all you have to do is Google "nolandgrab" to get a pretty good idea of the name of the person who runs it. It's not Dan Goldstein. Dan didn't even speak at the Park Slope forum the other night. It seems that there are now many people out there who do the rap, perhaps, even better than him. The gathering opposition to the project isn't just one guy.

escap

As a long time member of the local community and (with reservations) a supporter of the AY project, I can attest to your claim that there is pretty broad opposition to the project in the area. I am one of only a small group that I know of that actually has positive things to say about it--most people I meet are overwhelmingly opposed.

mamalink

Subject: Ratnerville

I liked it better when it looked like Daniel Goldstein was ubiquitous. One guy running nolandgrab, dddb, timesratner report, raising all the money, filing the law suit, writing the newspaper articles. Now that is the stuff that makes for a folk hero. Now communitybuilder says there is more than one guy in town who opposes the Ratner project.

By the way, if anyone really has a question rather than just wants to write foolish oppositional comments about a very effective grassroots organization that obviously has the support of the vast majority of the surrounding communities, there is a lot of information to be found on the various websites. If you can't find the information there, then attend one of the community meetings or events and talk to the many people who are deeply committed to preventing one of the most misguided, developer-driven projects ever imposed on the New York population.

If someone is concerned about the issue why would they attack a person and not address the issues? The spokesperson is not the issue. None of the individuals are the issues. When I see someone attacking a spokesperson, as articulate as he may be, I think to myself "I smell a Ratner."