Help, how do we fight this unfairness? [MTA fare increase]

vidro3

plus a $20Billion core capital plan for long term maintenance and investments.
http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_2008_13_mta_capital_plan_our_sold_out_future_is_here.html

The other deficits are yearly operating expenses.

rockergirl77

I just went to Paris and Berlin last month. The Paris Metro reminded me a lot of ours.

The Berlin Bahn system was insane - it was clean and smooth and ran on time with electronic boards telling you exactly when the next train would arrive for both busses and trains (must have been GPS because it was down to the second for busses) and the underground came pretty much every 5-10 minutes from what I remember. They pay 2 Euros (about $3) per ride but it's on the honor system. You can just come and go from the station with no turnstiles. There are apparently officers checking randomly on the trains and if you are caught without a ticket its a large on-the-spot cash fee/ticket. But from what i hear everyone pays for their tickets and no one really cheats. It was like a totally different world. Obvs it would never work like that hear - I was just blown away by how efficient and clean it was compared to ours. Also much newer & smoother trains.

vidro3

add a $5 gas tax and we could afford that here too.

seasidearms

Yes, well it has been established that the US lags behind Europe in a lot of things and from the look of things we will never catch up.

jamzer

seasidearms wrote: So are you saying the only solutions is to constantly raise the fare even though that seems to solve nothing in the long run because the same exact problem resurfaces? How is that a realistic solution? My idea is not vague it is on point and as I stated it is part of solution not THE magic answer. At least I am not just sitting back and saying ok here take more of their money and solve nothing anyway.

Apparently you have not read my posts because I never said any such thing. In fact, I think we should do much more than vaguely whine about it and send inane rants to the Straphangers campaign advocating a "strike" that will do no good. But certainly keep on fighting the good fight

seasidearms

I did read your post and you are recycling methods that have NOT worked so is that it, we should just keep doing the same thing and expect different results, isn't that the definition of insanity?

"We need more revenue to finance the system and it should come from tolls, fares, taxes and federal support."

boogieknight

They need to split out the subway/bus lines for NYC from the roadways and bridges - being all mixed together just muddles the waters and complicates things. There's very strong suggestion that there is very crooked double-book accounting going on in the MTA and that has to be dealt with immediately.

Pensions are a huge expense, especially considering that so many employees are able to retire at about 60 if not younger and draw significant pensions for the remaining decades of their lives. You'll probably have to stop offering existing pension plans to all new employees and all hires less than 5 years on the job. They'll have to make do w/ 401K's like most other workers. While you're looking at the pensioners, really go after the considerable fraud found there (the news reports of the staggering amt of recent retirees who are alo found to have suffered debilitating injuries in their last year on the job). Any pension/insurance shenanigans gets an immediate halt to payments and a lawsuit for recompensation.

I think the subway lines that exist are just going to have to stay. The costs of expanding or buliding new ones runs into the billions - and when is anyone ever going to fork over the cash for that? Just improve and then maintain current lines. Think of ways to increase speed, safety and capacity. Why does every other train system in the world have an accurate means of telling its passengers when the next train is arriving and of informing them of any problems - yet not in NYC?

Finally Bloomberg's toll plan is just a smokescreen. He wants NO passenger cars in Manhattan - ever. Taxis, buses, delivery vehicles - that's all he wants. All he has to do to implement that is ban street parking in all of Manhattan for unreasonable amounts of time. Its basically impossible to street park in Manhattan as it is - just eliminate meters and munimeters or at least reduce the number to a fraction of what exists now and jack up the prices to exhorbitant rates - along the lines of $20 per 30mins. Street Parking allowed only on residential streets form 10pm-3am. Bloomberg can't legally ban cars but he certainly can tell you not to park in the city.

No private cars on the road means that many more buses and shuttles and cabs and bikes to get the non-drivers into the city ina reasonable amount of time.

I don't neccesarily agree w/ the above - but I'm pretty sure that's what Bloomber is aiming for.

vidro3

Bloomberg certainly wants to reduce the amount of passenger cars in manhattan but he does not want that number to go to Zero. I am quite sure of that. He would have to be severely deluded to think that is a possibility. Even London, which instituted a huge congestion charge only saw maybe a 25-30% decrease in traffic.

Parking will never be $20 for 30 mins. But it probably will get up to $4/hr or a little higher depending on where and when - that's what peak rate pricing is all about.

Each division of the MTA lists a separate budget.I'm not sure splitting them into different entities would do much more than increase overheads and bureaucratic inefficiencies.

You are right about the pensions. They will have to be reduced for current employees and probably eliminated or phased out for incoming employees. Retirees may have to start paying income tax on their pensions - I believe they are tax free but I could be mistaken.

seasidearms

BoogieKnight you made some very interesting and insightful points. I only hope some positive solutions come about. Unfortunately it's true what they say, you can lead sheep to water but you can't make them drink

jamzer

seasidearms wrote: BoogieKnight you made some very interesting and insightful points. I only hope some positive solutions come about. Unfortunately it's true what they say, you can lead sheep to water but you can't make them drink

Fire a hundred marketing people and stage a strike of the system - that will sure fix things AND help grow the system! :roll:

boogieknight

Jamzer wrote: [quote=seasidearms]BoogieKnight you made some very interesting and insightful points. I only hope some positive solutions come about. Unfortunately it's true what they say, you can lead sheep to water but you can't make them drink

Fire a hundred marketing people and stage a strike of the system - that will sure fix things AND help grow the system! :roll:

I called for no strike or firings.

Even if the separate entities are accounted for separately in the ledgers - a shortfall in, let's say, Tolls and Bridges would still be filled w/ an increase in subway fares. The main point of frustration is and has been - subway ridership has been higher tha never and even accounting w/ the discounted price of monthly metor card and so on, there have been price increases. So it's More Riders + Higher Fares and the MTA still operates at a huge loss?!?

Yes other subway systems are more expensive but they're also usually better (although few are 24 hrs).

My God the Hong Kong trains were the most glorious thing I've ever seen - like a utopian sci-fi movie - squeaky clean, fast, clocks telling you when the next train is coming and the best damn maps and signage I've ever seen - it's a marvel!

Anyway.....it'd be nice to have a responsible and trustworthy agency tell us exactly how much the subways and buses need to be at improved but not unrealistic standards. $4, $5, $7 - what?

And just to bring it up again - Bloomberg can't outlaw cars but he can make parking impossible. I think he wants 80-100% reduction in private car driving in Manhattan, not just the 25-30% seen in London.

He's never been one for accruing political goodwill(especially from the hoi polloi) and he's a lame duck anyway - so why not outlaw Manhattan parking?

An East River toll is ridiculous because you'd spend countless millions and have to buy/use unavailable real estate and it would just lead to less cars driving in Manhattan which is what he wants - so just cut out the expensive middle portion and let drivers know that if they come to Manhattan they're going to have to put their cars in a garage.

Since the garages don't have to compete w/ street parking they could charge even more obscenely exhorbitant rates. They make tons more money and the city get to tax them higher and so on and so on......

whatchuwant

RockerGirl77 wrote: I just went to Paris and Berlin last month. The Paris Metro reminded me a lot of ours.

The Berlin Bahn system was insane - it was clean and smooth and ran on time with electronic boards telling you exactly when the next train would arrive for both busses and trains (must have been GPS because it was down to the second for busses) and the underground came pretty much every 5-10 minutes from what I remember. They pay 2 Euros (about $3) per ride but it's on the honor system. You can just come and go from the station with no turnstiles. There are apparently officers checking randomly on the trains and if you are caught without a ticket its a large on-the-spot cash fee/ticket. But from what i hear everyone pays for their tickets and no one really cheats. It was like a totally different world. Obvs it would never work like that hear - I was just blown away by how efficient and clean it was compared to ours. Also much newer & smoother trains.

Dude, when I was there I TOTALLY didn't pay (I was like, Honor system? Yea, right....) I got caught by the cops who were SO MEAN to me. One was positive that I spoke German and was pretending to just speak English. Sucked.

transplant

Here's an idea: Stop voting each and every election for the same old corrupt politicians, whose only ideas for solving anything involve hiking taxes (and in this case, subway fares), stealing more money from the taxpayers, and then throwing money at the problem by creating additional beauracracy. You basically elect the same people every time, and then complain when things keep getting worse. If you really want to change anything, you need to start by cleaning the scum out of the government.

reggi

Believe it or not, this fare increase will hurt the little people. My friend's
cleaning person says it's going to put a real dent in her pocket. I guess
there are many people that haven't any real disposable income so paying more and making less has more of an impact on them.

raw

nkotsonis wrote: Europeans understand something that you are apparently missing.

And I understand while us Americans are missing good paid vacation days and working like slaves, Europeans enjoy far more paid vacation days. That aside, comparing American transportation costs to European transportation costs is silly. Apples and oranges! New York's trains are filthy and unreliable compared to trains in Europe.

And yes, people who make a few bucks an hour will suffer from even a small increase. Some people are POOR (without cash), not cheap (with cash they won't spend).

seasidearms

There was a protest on Wednesday at city hall. Honestly I can already see that nothing will come of this because no one cares to listen unless they are forced to, which is why peaceful protests are a waste of time it seems in this city.

cccc

nkotsonis wrote:
Robert Moses, during the 50's was the king of new york. He controlled development. He was also the one that really caused the Dodgers to leave Brooklyn. O'Malley wanted to put the new Ebbetts field where Ratner is currently building his Arena for The Nets. O'Malley wanted to take advantage of the subway lines. Moses wanted the Dodgers in Queens, ironically where Shea currently exists, because he had a love affair with the car and motor transportaton. Ironic isn't it that in retrospect, O'malley was right. So everyone started to buy cars and the subway system, surprisingly, started to deteriorate because of decreased ridership.
Lindsay, in his eternal wisdom, wanted to increase subway transportation, so his administration decided that any buildings built during that time period, could not have garages. They all thought, that the people will be forced to take public transportation, and the system would be saved.
Well, people did not take the subway, they bought cars, and we now have the current congestion problem.
Amazing.

Have you read the Power Broker?