Second Hand Smoke

owler

I live above a very obnoxious and selfish smoker in a very old building.

My question is how dangerous really is second hand smoke? And what if any rights do I have against it?
I've read the facts on the lung Association site and it looks grim and not to mention the worry I have of a fire hazard.
It's not an insane amount of smoke but it's bad enough that it gets into my place and makes me cough. Is this effecting my health?
Do I Grin and bare it or just have to look for another apt?
I know this is how it is with living in the city with neighbors and it could be worse but I don't want to develop further health problems just because my neighbor doesn't give a crap.

bronte

Renters are usually entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of their apartment, but unless your building has a no smoking policy, and most don't, I don't think you can force your neighbor to quit smoking.

You can try of keep smoky air from rising into your apartment. Check this out -- it's about energy efficiency, but it has tips that might help:

http://www.housingfinance.com/aft/articles/2009/jan-feb/0109-bottomline-save.htm

Seal the gaps

Many apartments are riddled with tiny holes, allowing heated air to escape into uninsulated areas and letting in drafts of cold air. Plugging these gaps also will help to keep pests such as roaches and bedbugs from spreading from apartment to apartment.

Building codes don’t require contractors to seal gaps like this one, letting heat out and pests like roaches in.

The next time you enter an apartment, especially an empty unit, bring a caulking gun to plug any holes smaller than a quarter inch. Larger holes may require a foam patching product or even a sheet rock patch. Be sure to check the openings around pipes, including near radiators and under sinks. Look for holes in the tops and the bottoms of closets.

Make sure the seam is sealed between the walls and the floor. “There’s almost always a gap between the sheet rock and the baseboard,” says Moriarta.

owler

Cool Thanks!

ringrunner

Subject: Re: Second Hand Smoke

owler wrote: I live above a very obnoxious and selfish smoker in a very old building.

My question is how dangerous really is second hand smoke? And what if any rights do I have against it?
I've read the facts on the lung Association site and it looks grim and not to mention the worry I have of a fire hazard.
It's not an insane amount of smoke but it's bad enough that it gets into my place and makes me cough. Is this effecting my health?
Do I Grin and bare it or just have to look for another apt?
I know this is how it is with living in the city with neighbors and it could be worse but I don't want to develop further health problems just because my neighbor doesn't give a crap.

Smelling it is bad, but if it making you cough then it is effecting your health. That is really bad. I don't have any advise for you except the good news, your are gonna outlive your neighbor.

modsquad

When looking for gaps use one of those long necked butane lighters. Pass the flame along suspected areas, when the flame flickers that shows a gap.
You say old, do you have exposed brick walls? Maybe wide plank flooring or a tin ceiling. If downstairs neighbor has a tin ceiling then the flooring itself might have gaps. Look at the possible gaps that might exist above you also. If an apartment above you has gaps it is helping to "wick" the air from the apartment below you.

One more consideration. Does the apartment have an internal duct system for kitchen or bathroom that is not working or hasn't been cleaned in a 100 years. If you are using an exhaust fan then all you are doing is drawing more bad air into your apartment. Even opening a window will draw the air from below.

brooklynjack

How hard and far do you want to push this? you have a warrant of habitability (quiet enjoyment is more about coming and going than it is about "quiet") and the landlord should do something to fix this for you. There is existing case law where landlords and been made to plug the leaks so you don't get the smoke. check out tenant.net

mpmav1

From what I understand, no case law exists where second hand smoke was found to be void a warrant of habitability. At least not in New York. And also, the courts have found the threshold for voiding such a warranty to be really, quite high. I'd be surprised if the courts were to step in here.

I have the same problem (feel your pain) and have done some research. From what I understand, unless you want to try to make new law through litigation... try as hard as you can to see if the landlord will budge and/or the neighbor will help. Buy them an air filter? (both help the air and make them feel bad to open a window?) Fill the holes in your floor...

An interesting NY Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/nyregion/09ansonia.html?ref=nyregion

brooklynjack

I'm thinking of Poyck v. Bryant

http://tenant.net/Court/Hcourt/index.html?x=1695

mpmav1

BrooklynJack wrote: I'm thinking of Poyck v. Bryant

http://tenant.net/Court/Hcourt/index.html?x=1695

I didn't know of this case.... and it's actually really interesting. Unfortunately, it doesn't really give anything that would help anyone facing this situation now. The case is currently being appealed, and the only thing that the court actually said was that the defendant (the renter) might have a possible defense for not paying rent when they moved out. The court didn't actually say such a right exists: only that a jury should make this decision. And since the case is currently being appealed: no actual decision has been made.

That's the other thing: warranty of habitability only allows you to get back the level of damages you are out because of the breach: so even if you were to 1) find a court that allows you to argue breach because of second hand smoke, 2) find a jury that agrees with you... your damages you can receive would only be the amount of rent you should get back because of the smoke. Maybe a jury would say 20% of your rent??? Who knows.... Plus, after paying your attorney... you'll end up being the looser.

Anyways, I've rambled for too long now... Best of luck OP... if you find any great solution, please share!

the chipster

I like all the practical solutions offered here. Butane info and tin ceiling tips; very brooklyln! To the OP: I'd investigate all these options first before getting all legal. Don't go there if you don't have to.

katieslope

I agree with alot of what's being said.

Also, I mean, talk to your neighbor before getting all legal. As a smoker, I'd be pretty mortified if someone went and "told" on me before giving me the opportunity to use a different room or window or something.

I would check the duct system too, that happened to me in my last building. Only it was really potent food, not smoke, that I was being subjected too.

That's alot of distance, I don't think your health is in jeopardy from second hand smoke, if you're still nervous, try an air filter, they work pretty well.

vidro3

i agree with katie, talk to the neighbor, assuming you haven't already, and maybe s/he will agree to alter their habit to help you out.

get a hepa filter, or encourage your neighbor to get one.

modsquad

vidro3 wrote: i agree with katie, talk to the neighbor, assuming you haven't already, and maybe s/he will agree to alter their habit to help you out.

get a hepa filter, or encourage your neighbor to get one.

HEPAS won't work you need one of these babies.
http://www.allergybuyersclubshopping.com/iqairgcseries.html

Only set you back about $1200 plus an extra 50 bucks month to run it

the chipster

I don't even know if those expensive filters work. For non-smokers, the smell alone of cigarettes is enough! It's revolting, even if everything else was neutralized.
It sounds like OP is more worried about his health. Call me a native New Yorker; but fuggedaboutit!
Good luck sealing up your abode. I also recommend keeping a window cracked. Even in winter, I've had to do that to keep the air fresh.

crunchberry

why is your neighbor "obnoxious and selfish"? Just because he/she smokes? They have as much right to enjoy their apartment as you do yours which includes their right to smoke. Sounds to me like you are maybe not the type of person who is made for city living. Whether its food smells, parties or loud kids, we all accept that we have to make accomodations for our close living situation. If you can't stand it, move. Your neighbor shouldn't have to accomodate you.

katieslope

amen crunchberry.

and yeah, i dealt with the food smell.

it was the bedbugs that forced me to leave queens!

>>aka there are worse apt issues.<<

spidora xplora

I don't care what my neighbors do...as long as it doesn't affect my health in my own apartment. I shouldn't have to deal with secondhand smoke in my apt. It's not like a food smell...secondhand smoke kills - loud kids or parties don't.

katieslope

(shrug) close the window?

i fear a police state where there are going to be rules and regulations on smoking in your OWN place. (and in some places this is already close to true)

unless you're in a co-op place that has strict rules or guidelines, hook up the air filter and/or close the window.

or you know, like i said, converse with the neighbor. buy a filter. but don't automatically label a smoker as selfish unless you spoke to them and have reason to believe they are.

and as someone extremely sensitive to sound, the kids trampling down my walkup every morning well before i need to get up, and well before i've had my designated rest, are argumentatively pretty hazardous to my health as well.

modsquad

If you find a gap between the floor and the wall that you can fill with expanding foam I would urinate down the hole a few times before I sealed it up.

owler

Thank you bronte, BrooklynJack &
Mpmav1 for all the great informal feedback on this.

Especially thanks to modsquad, super helpfull! Although I think I may hold off on urinating on my own floor! lol!
I'm the top floor apartment & my floors are really old and it seems that's where the majority of the smoke smell has now started to seep in.
Also as a matter of fact I do have an internal duct system in my kitchen and I'm positive it has not been cleaned since I've been in the place and actually I have been turning it on to try and air the place out so maybe that has been making it worse, so thanks for pointing that out.

Chipster: I am reluctant to pursue getting "all legal" because my place is not rent controlled or rent stabilized so I'm limited in my rights in any of that dept.

katieslope & vidro3: I have spoken to my neighbor once and I explained that I have a breathing problem and if they could try to not smoke so much and that has not gotten through to them. That is why I consider my neighbor a very obnoxious and selfish smoker. I don't care if someone want's to have the occasional cigarette, but I don't understand why someone has to hotbox their apartment to the point where I have to breath it in every day.

My Dr has told me that I have the lungs of an old man. I know this is not only just from being around cigarette smoke because SURPRISE crunchberry I've lived in major cities my whole life and so I can also thank the constant car exhaust and pollution fumes for my breathing problems as well. So is it too much to ask to want to have a little bit of consideration from my neighbors?
Well I guess I'm just going to have to invest in one of those exspensive air-filter things.

modsquad

owler, a few more thoughts. Since you live on the top floor I was wondering, do you have any of those small skylights that often light bathrooms or hallways? They are often vented or leak air profusely. Tightly wrapping them on the roof with duct tape and clear plastic would help stop the upward draft somewhat. The kitchen duct. Even when it is not on it is another source of air loss that is sucking smoke from below. You might want to tape that shut or shove some plastic into it to see if that helps. Something else of course would be your front door. If it's leaking around the edges, it to is creating an upward draft. One more thing to try is the top of the stairway. Do you have a door to the roof or hatch that you could prop open and see if that redirects the upflow? I guess I could go on and on but I do think the problem is solvable. I had a similar problem with someone living over a bar back in the day you could smoke and a combination of sealing gaps and ultimately creating a positive pressure situation in the apartment completely eliminated the problem.

On, one more thing, A telltale sign of air passing is a "smear" of dirt above the opening on a wall or floor. If your walls haven't been painted in the last year or two that is often enough to show that. Good Luck

vidro3

very good tips modsquad.

unrepentant fenian

Or you could just do the wold a favor and die in a fire. Smoking is a perfectly legal activity and you need to quit your bitching. Are you fat? You sound fat.

katieslope

LOL. You crack me up unrepentant.

Smoking is perfectly legal, its true. It would feel nice, for once, not to feel like a criminal by the outside world, or by a neighbor, not even a roommate, thats having an issue.

Live and let live already. Or move.

MOD

Yo Unrepentant Fenian, read the damn rules. "Be nice, if you can't be nice, go to a different website!!"

http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3319

ringrunner

Mamacita wrote: Yo Unrepentant Fenian, read the damn rules. "Be nice, if you can't be nice, go to a different website!!"

http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3319

and stay in Bay Ridge

katieslope

It's probably because owler called the law-abiding smoker both selfish and obnoxious.

That's pretty mean too. All I'm sayin.

But yeah, people should be nice!

Plenty of cheer to go around, even on a Monday.

unrepentant fenian

You called your neighbor obnoxious and selfish then mentioned he doesn't give a crap about his dangerous activity that is killing you. He isn't manufacturing meth. HE is smoking a cigarette. Welcome to New York. It ain't perfect, and it ain't for everyone.

anastasia beaverhausen

Is it weird that Fenian kinda turns me on?

unrepentant fenian

Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: Is it weird that Fenian kinda turns me on?

I get that all the...wait, on?

anastasia beaverhausen

You minx, you.