Looks like Obamanut has a point...

hamilton

does anyone know where i can purchase a Gentrifier's Go Home T shirt.

pitu

Hamilton wrote: does anyone know where i can purchase a Gentrifier's Go Home T shirt.

You have to make your own, like a hipster.

hamilton

Thanks, I will, but where can i get those glasses and chuck taylor sneaks , I can't make them

witch-king

apple pants

It seems like a lot of folks around here are obsessed with shouting down or trying to delegitimize Obamanut. I don’t agree with his views on gentrification, but they are legitimate views. It’s a shame that some kind of polite, productive discussion doesn’t emerge from the snark. I guess folks like Livetotravel would rather just post a picture of someone yawning.

I actually struggle with some aspects of gentrification. I pay a very low rent in Park Slope and my landlord is crazy mad that he can’t raise it much because of city laws. Sure, it benefits me, but is that fair to someone who has owned the property through the good times and the bad? Shouldn’t a landlord be able to charge more?

carmen

witch-king wrote: [quote=yoda][quote=witch-king]Complaints about gentrification and gentrifiers are not new. Obamanut's hipsteria is predictable and stale (like the air inside Farrell's). The only "point" s/he may have is the one on top of her/his head.

Look Buddy, let's say that in your home town of wheretheheckever, as you grew and finally became of age you wanted to stay. However, you no longer can afford to live in your town and can't afford a hole in the wall because of gentrification. Maybe gentrification is inevitable but it really sucks, especially as a large portion (not all) gentrifiers are essentially obnoxious and pretentious and don't have a clue. I've been trying to find a column that Denis Hamill wrote a while ago (at least 8 years ago) that sums it up perfectly. It may be "stale and predictable" but so is your rejoinder.

I have no doubt that gentrification is not a pleasant process for people who suffer from rising property taxes and obnoxious new neighbors. Usually, these negatives are only slightly mitigated by things like an increase of services (including police service) and amenities (including restaurants) that would not otherwise have flowed into the area.

Let's say that one finds that the negatives outweigh the mitigating factors and gentrification should be fought against. One could b*tch and moan hipsterically about rude bicyclists and skinny neighbors who play The Sounds at high volumes. Or one could face that fact that as long as our economic system allows residential spaces to be turned into spaces from which wealth is extracted, there will be gentrification and displacement. If one takes the second point of view, one might seek to join a local community organization (ala the sane Obama) to help local residents who face displacement and other forms of alienation to claim their "rights" to residential space. This latter course of action, while not the only one possible, is at least rational. Sadly, this is not what the central anti-gentrifier here represents.

As for myself, I've moved around quite a lot and I am undisturbed by experiencing new things and new people. I suspect part of the heightened emotional cathexis expressed in this and other recent threads is an age old antipathy that is expressed towards "outsiders" and "newcomers." When all else fails, it is easy to simply plant one's flag and say "get off my turf." Unfortunately, the myth of ownership over one's infantile home is shattered by the reality principle. Are all gentrifiers obnoxious and pretentious? No. Are all "original residents" (whatever that might mean in Brooklyn) nice people? No. It seems to me that rather than point fingers at individuals, it would be more profitable (but apparently less psychically satisfying) to look to amend the institutional patterns that exacerbate the worst aspects of gentrification.


+1. You said everything I wanted to say, but better. As the old saying goes- don't hate the player, hate the game. I don't think it's fair to complain about "new residents" as the root of all evil when it comes to brooklyn, NYC in general or any city...be angry at a system that is pricing working folks out of their homes, not the people who happen to be fortunate enough to be able to afford it. Not to mention this type of economic shift is not exactly localized to NYC- I'm from the beach in NC where my family has owned a home for 50 years two blocks from the ocean- it was once a small, quaint beach community and is now full of 2mil condos, stripmalls, bars and absolutely NO unmetered parking. My relatives, while sad, aren't complaining about gentrification...they recognize that it's just how communities grow and change when something desirable is found. All their stores are more expensive, the few remaining mom and pop stores are struggling to keep up with the chains...its the same shit, different zipcode...except they don't have ANY city laws to protect them (while they own their home, many of their surrounding neighbors do not own their homes or businesses and are being priced out due to increasing rents/desire to sell buildings to demolish and build newer, "leaner" [read- high density] construction.)



So, in short...suck it up. this is what happens any place that people want to live.

apple pants

Obamanut:

I do not agree with you on this issue, but I also do not feel you need to "suck it up."

Don't pay any attention to the rudeness of Carmen. I hope you keep posting your views.

carmen

I find it to be kind of hilarious that someone is telling obamanut to ignore rudeness. He doesn't seem to need help defending himself.

apple pants

Carmen,

I disagree with you, but I am not going to ask you to "suck it up," that would be rude.

carmen

I am an asshole, after all.

witch-king

apple pants wrote: Carmen,

I disagree with you, but I am not going to ask you to "suck it up," that would be rude.

At the risk of providing oxygen to this fire, I'll just point out that the expression "suck it up" isn't rude. "Suck it up" means "toughen up" or "grow some thicker skin" or "endure it" and stop complaining. It is not a command to literally "suck" anything. Alas, these are the subtleties of language use.

apple pants

Witch king,

I disagree with you, "suck it up" is a rude thing to write and you can't explain it away, in my opinion. However, I will not ask you to suck it up, that would be rude.

carmen

This thread is going places.

apple pants

Well Carmen,

It gets tiring to read people get so negative, so I am speaking up.

I actually raised some pretty good points, but of course, they get ignored because some folks are very busy ganging up on Obamanut and saying rude, dismissive things.

No one would ever say to someone in person, “suck it up,” so I am not sure why folks write it here.

mougar

apple pants wrote: No one would ever say to someone in person, “suck it up,” so I am not sure why folks write it here.

I do, though I sometimes soften it by adding buttercup. As in "Suck it up, buttercup."

whatchuwant

Apple Pants-

After you've been here for a while, you'll realize that its best just to defend one's self. There will be ample opportunities to do this as you may have already noticed. Obamanut can handle himself without you sticking up for him, and I seriously doubt he'd even want your help. This site is monitored and when things get hairy, they step in. Leave that job to them.

apple pants

I disagree whatcha. The online world is filled with a majority of people who never post and a small minority of people who post all of the time. By sticking up for a fellow poster during moments of rudeness, I am saying that we should be more civil to encourage more open conversation.

This topic went south immediately. It doesn't have to go that way, but it does. So I speak out against the negativity.

You don't have to agree, but that is how I roll.

anastasia beaverhausen

apple pants wrote:

No one would ever say to someone in person, “suck it up,” so I am not sure why folks write it here.

apple pants

AB,

With a smile on my face, I say, perhaps you are just very special. :P

anastasia beaverhausen

AP,

With my middle finger extended, I say suck it up, buttercup

apple pants

Buttercup,

Wow, so much is said with so few words.

whatchuwant

apple pants wrote: I disagree whatcha. The online world is filled with a majority of people who never post and a small minority of people who post all of the time. By sticking up for a fellow poster during moments of rudeness, I am saying that we should be more civil to encourage more open conversation.

This topic went south immediately. It doesn't have to go that way, but it does. So I speak out against the negativity.

You don't have to agree, but that is how I roll.

Dude- the fact that you've been going on and on in multiple threads about rudeness of others is really pointless- that will bring the convo south before anything else.

You're a newbie, see, and the fact is, is this is how WE roll here on Brooklynian. We can be nice, we can stick up for each other, but usually it's every man for himself.

I'm just trying to help you out, man. But, really, you'll learn in time....

carmen

I can't believe all this energy is being spent on "suck it up." I've had teachers and bosses tell me to suck it up. I've told others to suck it up to their face. I don't find it to be especially rude. I would find the incredible hatred for brooklyn newbs' simple existence to be WAY more insulting than the phrase "suck it up." Such passionate misdirected anger...

voodoonyc

Carmen, your newb killing skills seem to be getting considerably rusty.

stacey

Mougar wrote: I do, though I sometimes soften it by adding buttercup. As in "Suck it up, buttercup."

I personally prefer "put on your big girl panties (big boy boxers) and suck it up"

whynot_31

Sometimes rich people take over neighborhoods, sometimes they take over the whole city. (like in the economic boom that just ended)

Sometimes rich people flee neighborhoods, sometimes they flee the whole city. (like in the 70s, or perhaps in the near future).

Put another way, sometimes the city is filled with idle men who are intoxicated and warming their hands over burning barrels ...and sometimes it is full of coffee shops.

....you gotta deal! Complaining changes nothing. Reading reports that say the city is changing isn't particularly worthwhile either.

...whine or celebrate here if you think thats a good use of your time!

apple pants

Wow,

Once again, the negativity here is out of control. I am done with this thread. I have tried to discuss the topic, but instead, others just want to be rude and dismissive.

I am off to get an Odwalla.

witch-king

apple pants wrote: Wow,

Once again, the negativity here is out of control. I am done with this thread. I have tried to discuss the topic, but instead, others just want to be rude and dismissive.

I am off to get an Odwalla.

There is a deity after all

cool the kid

Obamanut wrote: [quote=witch-king]Complaints about gentrification and gentrifiers are not new. Obamanut's hipsteria is predictable and stale (like the air inside Farrell's). The only "point" s/he may have is the one on top of her/his head.

And your points are rehearsed and lame, like the atmosphere inside Sidecar.

The only people interesting in listening to your contrived babble are your fellow fakes, so go ahead and yuck it up over your next microbrew. I'll be over here with the real people living real lives.

LMAO, say WHAT???

So anyone who moves to BK now is a fake?

Like the people in skin tight acid washed jeans walking their fixed gear bikes down Bedford around North 7th, u need to get over urself, boss man. People movin to BK are in the same struggles as you, and statements like 'ill be over here with real people living real lives' are so corny & not conducive to worthwhile discussions

yoda

I sucked it up and left Brooklyn, my old hometown, and now I live where I am a newcomer however, I'm not rubbing the locals faces in stupid shallow crap like restaurants and the newest dum-dum coffee masturbation manifesto. The fact that there are multiple articles, blogs and such about this topic indicates that this is a legit beef, not some tired tirade. But the question still begs to be answered - if it happened to you, would you be so dismissive and self-righteous? Should the locals lie down and let the ironic fools whitewash the flavor out and put in the mall brand?