Residential Parking Permits being discussed again.

vidro3

A few articles recently about bringing residential parking permits to Brooklyn.

First Streetsblog, I suggest reading the comments as well as the article: http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/05/18/brooklyn-pols-revive-proposal-for-residential-permit-parking/#comments

And here the brooklyn paper:
http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/32/20/32_20_mm_parking.html

Have at it.

meredithb

Bad idea.

First it will be Brooklyn, then all of NYC.

paxman

As someone who lives on a street with both, a car service and a van service, I would totally support permit parking. In fact, I was just saying this very thing on Sunday.

Hope it works out.

meredithb

I'd support it if it was only M - F and during daytime hours.

Night time hours is a bad idea.

new2hood

Interesting...thanks. I lived in DC, and found the permit system definitely made things easier, although if I remember correctly, it was 2-hour parking from 8am-6pm for non-permit holders.

longtimesloper

Ok, i am dumb. Why is this a bad idea? Doesn't this mean that I will not have to fight out of towners for spots near my house since I will have a permit? Can someone explain to me why this is bad?

opossumqueen

I don't have a car but I sure as hell think this is a bad idea in places like Park Slope. I don't think we need to make owning a car here easier. Buses and trains, folks.

I had an old but well-functioning car when we first moved to NYC and the costs of keeping it (gas, tags, maintenance, insurance) far outweighed the cost of alternatives (unlimited metrocard+ cabs to/from airports and late nights home+car rental for occasional getaway or big shopping) for two people.

It's a choice to live here and have a car here. May be a good idea some places, say a residential area that happens to have a train station really far from others, where folks park and ride on streets, but not very feasible in an area that is fully mixed use (like Park Slope and other similar neighborhoods) with plenty of public transit and car service options.

opossumqueen

LongTimeSloper wrote: Ok, i am dumb. Why is this a bad idea? Doesn't this mean that I will not have to fight out of towners for spots near my house since I will have a permit? Can someone explain to me why this is bad?

We live in a city where tourists are common, so aren't out of towners good? You don't want someone visiting you with a vehicle to be able to park near your place? And would this then mean each block gets x # of handicap spots? Plus with so many businesses (possibly people driving here to shop) and people moving often, it just seems hard to manage the passes and policing it seems like a waste of time and money unless the owners of the permits pay for it. And what about rental cars, zipcars, Uhauls? I didn't explain all of this fully, but there are so many issues with permits.

Again, I think there are way too many cars here. I miss having a car but won't get one again until I move out of an urban area with so many transportation alternatives.

longtimesloper

I was under the impression that there would be considerations for visitors and others. I believe in Boston even where there are signs posted that you need a residential permit, that there are spots nearby where you don't, I could be wrong of course.

As for handicapped spots, there are no actual marked handicapped spots now, so, I don't see why there would be a need for them if there were permits. My BIL has a handicap permit and he can pretty much park wherever he wants on residential streets, in zones I am not allowed to park in, in front of churches, etc. etc.. A lot of times if we go somewhere, he will take his car because it is so easy for him to park it. I just assumed those rules would stay the same.

I also don't see the big deal about making owning a car easier for people in certain areas. yes, it is a choice that I have taken, but, that is what the world is about, individual choices, correct?

Now, do you only get to buy a pass if you have a car registered in this area? is that how it works (so, people with more than one car, get 2 permits, etc. etc.)? Or, can anyone who lives in an area buy a pass?

longtimesloper

Ok, here is something about visitors and such:



I believe the provision for visitors is that 20% of the spaces will not require permits.

Of course, these will all be taken up by residents with illegal out-of-state registrations. But in the long run this will be good, because it will create an incentive to crack down on that travesty.

new2hood

As I remember, in DC, you could request guest passes.

vidro3

OpossumQueen wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]Ok, i am dumb. Why is this a bad idea? Doesn't this mean that I will not have to fight out of towners for spots near my house since I will have a permit? Can someone explain to me why this is bad?

We live in a city where tourists are common, so aren't out of towners good? You don't want someone visiting you with a vehicle to be able to park near your place? And would this then mean each block gets x # of handicap spots? Plus with so many businesses (possibly people driving here to shop) and people moving often, it just seems hard to manage the passes and policing it seems like a waste of time and money unless the owners of the permits pay for it. And what about rental cars, zipcars, Uhauls? I didn't explain all of this fully, but there are so many issues with permits.

Again, I think there are way too many cars here. I miss having a car but won't get one again until I move out of an urban area with so many transportation alternatives.

you make some good points, but it is not as cut and dry as that. Since permits would only be available to residents, those with cars registered in other states would have to change registration or ditch the car.
The hours that permit parking is in effect would influence car ownership as well. If the permit allows you to park overnight but not during the day, for example, those who are only weekend drivers would have to reconsider owning a car since they would either have to use it, expensive and time consuming, or find another place to park it during the day, inconvenient and time consuming.

I agree with your overall point that we have too many cars and too much space devoted to them. I think RPPs can be used in such a way as to both reduce the amount cars in our neighborhood and improve our pedestrian/transit experience.

meredithb

LongTimeSloper wrote: Can someone explain to me why this is bad?

Because if it's at night, the idea that any parking rule will be enforced between the hours of 10PM and 6AM in NYC is ludicrous.

I mean really people, do you actually think this will be enforced at night?

If so, you are delusional. The police don't even enforce people parking within 15' of a hydrant at night.

meredithb

new2hood wrote: As I remember, in DC, you could request guest passes.

Yeah in Boston you can go to the local police precinct and buy a visitors permit. That won't work in NYC as you won't be able to find a parking space near a precinct in order to go in and buy the permit.

longtimesloper

^^Haha

vidro3

MeredithB wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]Can someone explain to me why this is bad?

Because if it's at night, the idea that any parking rule will be enforced between the hours of 10PM and 6AM in NYC is ludicrous.

I mean really people, do you actually think this will be enforced at night?

If so, you are delusional. The police don't even enforce people parking within 15' of a hydrant at night.

overnight parking rules are enforced all the time.

longtimesloper

Seriously? of course they do, I have gotten tickets overnight for being too close to a hydrant or too far away from a curb. i guess if you don't drive, you have no idea. But, yes, parking rules are enforced at night, that is why if people park a commercial vehicle on the street overnight, they will either find it gone or ticketed in the morning.

meredithb

vidro3 wrote: overnight parking rules are enforced all the time.

So you believe, and I am starting to wonder if we live in the same city.

There are no parking cops walking around at night, are you crazy?

Not in Manhattan, and especially not in Brooklyn.

And if you think that a cop in a cruiser is going to get out to enforce residential parking then you are so far out of touch with the reality that is NYC.

vidro3

MeredithB wrote: [quote=vidro3]overnight parking rules are enforced all the time.

So you believe, and I am starting to wonder if we live in the same city.

There are no parking cops walking around at night, are you crazy?

Not in Manhattan, and especially not in Brooklyn.

And if you think that a cop in a cruiser is going to get out to enforce residential parking then you are so far out of touch with the reality that is NYC.

Except it happens every single night. We live in the same city, but obviously not the same reality.

meredithb

vidro3 wrote: Except it happens every single night. We live in the same city, but obviously not the same reality.

Has anyone seen a "meter maid" at 2AM?

I doubt it seriously.

That is reality.

hotbox

LongTimeSloper wrote: I was under the impression that there would be considerations for visitors and others. I believe in Boston even where there are signs posted that you need a residential permit, that there are spots nearby where you don't, I could be wrong of course.

When I lived in Somerville, my apartment had two guest passes for guests to park in our permit-only neighborhood. It worked out great. I don't know what all the wringing of hands/gnashing of teeth is about on this issue.

MeredithB, before my car was stolen while I was in the process of selling it, it was towed no less than twice overnight for parking too close to a hydrant. Guess I never did learn to eyeball 15' correctly. Just because you don't see the cops and meter maids at night doesn't mean they don't exist, or that they're not severely complicating the lives of vehicle owners.

vidro3

okay. go ahead and park your car illegally overnight and report back to us and tell us if you got a ticket or not.

meredithb

OK, and you take a picture of that "meter maid" at 2AM and get back to me.

OK OK. the hydrant thing is eyeballable, a resident permit is not so, unless you expect a car to have it on both sides of the car. I really do not foresee the police actually enforcing this and I do not believe people will go for having decals on both of their windows.

That's my two cents, now all you car haters talk amongst yourselves.

longtimesloper

MeredithB wrote: [quote=vidro3]overnight parking rules are enforced all the time.

So you believe, and I am starting to wonder if we live in the same city.

There are no parking cops walking around at night, are you crazy?

Not in Manhattan, and especially not in Brooklyn.

And if you think that a cop in a cruiser is going to get out to enforce residential parking then you are so far out of touch with the reality that is NYC.


Umm, yes, it happens all the time, how else are there tickets on windshields after overnight parking is done? how do you think that commercial vehicles get towed or ticketed in the middle of the night when parked on residential streets? how do you think this happens if not by cops in patrol cars, etc? Do you have a car?

opossumqueen

I don't really care that much about this issue to continue stating all the ways I think it's a waste, but I agree with Meredith B on the lack of policing in some areas, at least.

There's a hydrant in front of our place, and at least 95% of the time the cars on either side are no more than 7 feet from it and usually less and I have NEVER seen a ticket or tow there or at the many other hydrants around our block (perhaps I notice this b/c of dog walking and pee breaks at the hydrants). There's about one car length between the cars, in front of the hydrant at our place. Those folks are just tempting fate, imo, yet I've never seen any kind of enforcement. I have seen ticketing start before ASS, though and that one pisses me off--surely there are enough legit offenses to keep them busy besides writing tickets at 10:40 when ASS on that strip starts at 11.

ringrunner

MeredithB wrote: [quote=vidro3]Except it happens every single night. We live in the same city, but obviously not the same reality.

Has anyone seen a "meter maid" at 2AM?

I doubt it seriously.

That is reality.

I got a ticket for a missing screw in my license plate (it was hanging at a 45 degree angle) from a real cop at 3:30am.

and

If Bloomberg thinks the meter maids can collect more than their salary during an overnight shift we will start to see them

meredithb

LongTimeSloper wrote: Umm, yes, it happens all the time, how else are there tickets on windshields after overnight parking is done? how do you think that commercial vehicles get towed or ticketed in the middle of the night when parked on residential streets? how do you think this happens if not by cops in patrol cars, etc? Do you have a car?

Most likely the cops give you Park Slopers tickets at night as they know you got mad cash, I doubt they are so diligent about parking regulations in Gravesend, but I could be wrong.

Commercial vehicles are pretty easy to spot as they have to have the name of the company of the door, not some minuscule sticker on a window or a fender.

Yes I have a car. And one thing I learned is that if I didn't like the parking situation where I lived I paid for a garage. After all, you do have mad cash in Park Slope.

ringrunner

MeredithB

You have just demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about.

and

What is your point?

and

I could use some of my mad cash now

willregistersoon

Meter maids aren't the only people who give tickets. I don't think any regular rounds are made at night but if a cruiser goes by and sees a car in front of a hydrant he may or may not give a ticket. I think it's just bad luck. It definitely happens though.

boogieknight

OpossumQueen wrote: ...There's a hydrant in front of our place, and at least 95% of the time the cars on either side are no more than 7 feet from it and usually less and I have NEVER seen a ticket or tow there or at the many other hydrants around our block (perhaps I notice this b/c of dog walking and pee breaks at the hydrants). There's about one car length between the cars, in front of the hydrant at our place. Those folks are just tempting fate, imo, yet I've never seen any kind of enforcement. I have seen ticketing start before ASS, though and that one pisses me off--surely there are enough legit offenses to keep them busy besides writing tickets at 10:40 when ASS on that strip starts at 11.

To further derail the OP, I think different nabes and their cops have come to mutual understandings of what's allowable when parking too close to a hydrant. I've noticed that in Manhattan cars overall park way closer to hydrants than they do in Brooklyn. I think it has to do with overall availability - Manhattan sucks to park in, so drivers get a little bit of wiggle room when it comes to hydrants. Brooklyn parking is easier overall, so they tend to be more of a stickler when it comes to the 15ft rule. My dumb opinion, anyway.

Back to topic - I don't know what to think about residential parking, as I don't have enough details. On a block of owner-dwellers brownstones and 1 families, RPP seems fair and easy - one or 2 spots per home. They probably all fit on one block.

But what happens when you have a block full off 100 unit apartments? Now you have 1,000 individual residences and everybody wants 1 or 2 RPPs - then what?

bkchickie

LongTimeSloper wrote: I was under the impression that there would be considerations for visitors and others. I believe in Boston even where there are signs posted that you need a residential permit, that there are spots nearby where you don't, I could be wrong of course.

No, you're correct. Visitor spaces are not plentiful, but they're there. It's not as if there are five resident spaces, then five visitor spaces. If there were 50 spaces on a street, maybe one or two would not require a permit.

I don't think that resident stickers will accomplish much. The problem here is that people think that resident permits will make it easier for people to park in the neighborhood. That wasn't my experience. It's not as if you'll have assigned parking. You'll have to fight for the space along with everyone else.

Although I didn't live in a Boston neighborhood that required resident stickers, the statistic I always heard in the denser downtown neighborhoods was there were at least five or six resident stickers for every one space.

And, just wait until people start breaking into cars to steal those permits....